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icruise · Aug 3, 2007, 12:17 PM

No, could you spell it out for me in a condescending manner?

mark9939 · Aug 3, 2007, 12:23 PM

True, while I would like to play GTA IV on my PS3, I'm definitely buying the 360 version for the DLC.

Dakarʒ · Aug 3, 2007, 12:32 PM

Originally Posted by icruise

No, could you spell it out for me in a condescending manner?

Well christ, how many times do I have to repeat myself? I feel ok having waited till the third time I posted it.

jokell82 · Aug 3, 2007, 03:43 PM

Oh ouch.

Originally Posted by http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=27326

PlayStation 3 complications caused GTA IV delay - analyst
Illustration
Matt Martin 14:07 (BST) 03/08/2007

Take-Two's green light process labelled a "failure"

Analyst Michael Pachter believes Rockstar has delayed the release of Grand Theft Auto IV because it is struggling with development on the PlayStation 3.

And the Xbox 360 version of the game has suffered at least a six month delay as a result, due to contractual obligations that will have prevented the publisher from releasing the game first on Microsoft's machine, says the analyst.

"We think it is likely that the Rockstar team had difficulty in building an exceptionally complicated game for the PS3, and failed to recognise how far away from completion the game truly was until recently," said Pachter.

"We think it is also likely that Take-Two had a contractual commitment to Sony that it would not favour competitor Microsoft by launching the Xbox 360 version of GTA IV prior to launching the PS3 version, and believe that any delay of the PS3 version necessitated a delay of the Xbox 360 version," he added.

This failure to recognise development problems could dent investor confidence in the publisher, even after it has taken steps to improve the green light process for software development.

"Take-Two management stumbled badly for the first time during their tenure," commented Pachter.

"While the delay of GTA IV was clearly not the fault of new management, we believe that it should have been better understood several months ago, and should have been communicated to investors much earlier than today.

"The company has begun an initiative to improve the green light process for new projects, but given the delays of Manhunt and GTA, its process for monitoring projects under development appears to be a failure," he said.

Microsoft has to hate that one. And it doesn't really put Sony in the best light either...

Dakarʒ · Aug 3, 2007, 03:47 PM

Ok, now I'm officially starting to hate the PS3.

exca1ibur · Aug 3, 2007, 05:04 PM

His opinion...

Analyst Michael Pachter believes Rockstar has delayed the release of Grand Theft Auto IV because it is struggling with development on the PlayStation 3.

We think it is likely that the Rockstar team had difficulty in building an exceptionally complicated game for the PS3, and failed to recognise how far away from completion the game truly was until recently," said Pachter.

"We think it is also likely that Take-Two had a contractual commitment to Sony that it would not favour competitor Microsoft by launching the Xbox 360 version of GTA IV prior to launching the PS3 version, and believe that any delay of the PS3 version necessitated a delay of the Xbox 360 version," he added.

jokell82 · Aug 3, 2007, 06:16 PM

Originally Posted by exca1ibur

His opinion...

See, that's what happens when you don't read the source. My mistake.

icruise · Aug 3, 2007, 06:32 PM

Maybe it's the 360's downloadable content that's holding things up.

Seriously, though, you have to take what these "analysts" say with a huge grain of salt. It's true with iPod/iPhone analysis and it's true with video games. I've seen better theories batted around on these forums than what some of these people come up with. I assume the mental process was:

1. I've heard that the PS3 is hard to develop for.
2. Take Two is making a game for both the 360 and PS3.
3. Hey, the delay must be because the PS3 is so hard to develop for!

All of this business about contracts not allowing them to release the game only on the 360 seems to be entirely speculation that follows from this (likely faulty) conclusion. It may very well be that the PS3 version is harder for them, but do you really think that they could have the 360 completely done and ready 6+ months earlier than the PS3 version, when they started development at the same time? I mean, most of the assets are going to be shared between the two versions, after all.

Dakarʒ · Aug 3, 2007, 09:27 PM

So what you're saying is we've got some Dvorak quality reporting here?

starman · Aug 6, 2007, 01:20 PM

Didn't we hear that the PS2 was "hard to develop for" in the beginning also?

Big, giant

goMac · Aug 6, 2007, 04:19 PM

We have a pattern here though. Katamari Damacy was canceled for the PS3 because the PS3 was too hard to code for. If Katamari Damacy got canceled, it's believable that GTA4 for PS3 is holding up the works.

icruise · Aug 6, 2007, 04:30 PM

Whatever they may have said, I think it's very likely that it was lack of marketshare that made them cancel KD. I mean look at all the crappy cash-in movie license games on the PS3. You're telling me that they can get these games to market with incredibly tight deadlines, but they couldn't figure out how to code a simple game like KD? They're either lying or incompent.

goMac · Aug 6, 2007, 04:35 PM

Originally Posted by icruise

Whatever they may have said, I think it's very likely that it was lack of marketshare that made them cancel KD. I mean look at all the crappy cash-in movie license games on the PS3. You're telling me that they can get these games to market with incredibly ttight deadlines, but they couldn't figure out how to code a simple game like KD? They're either lying or incompetent.

Sure, but if KD was almost done... why cancel it?

icruise · Aug 6, 2007, 05:15 PM

It was almost done?

pyrite · Aug 8, 2007, 09:50 PM

Yet another unmissable game confirmed as unmissable today...
IGN: Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare Preview

I knew it was gona be good, but bloody hell... HOW AM I GONA PLAY ALL THESE GAMES?!! Iv never been so happy and so sad at the same time in all my gaming life

Bioshock / Eternal Sonata / Halo 3 / COD4 / Mass Effect - all shaping up to be unmissable, and all only a month (or less) apart... sigh.

'Tis the season to be cashless

goMac · 12:07 PM

The XBox 360 Premium has been upgraded with HDMI and it already available to stores.

Microsoft officially adds HDMI to Xbox 360 Premium - Engadget

It is also thought that this is the 65 nm upgrade with a quieter DVD drive, but no one has verified that yet.

I went out and tried to pick one up last night. Best Buy didn't have any out, neither did Target. I didn't bother asking the salesmen yet if they had any in back, I doubt they would know anything...

icruise · Aug 9, 2007, 11:54 AM

Adding HDMI (while a good choice) kind of makes the Elite less attractive.

highstakes · Aug 9, 2007, 01:52 PM

developers are getting lazier by the day

icruise · Aug 9, 2007, 02:35 PM

What is that in response to?

Peter · Aug 9, 2007, 02:36 PM

so all 360 Premiums have HDMI now? Interrrresting.
Wish they'd include HD-DVD in it too...

Peter · Aug 9, 2007, 02:38 PM

Originally Posted by highstakes

developers are getting lazier by the day

I'm inclined to agree to be honest, as a consumer - why do I care why the game was delayed? The fact its delayed is enough to annoy me, saying its the playstations fault is ridiculous and just feels like they're trying to pass the bucket.
They got upto now thinking "tralala the PS3 is so easy to code on" and then suddenly overnight it became really hard?

highstakes · Aug 9, 2007, 08:26 PM

Originally Posted by icruise

What is that in response to?

1. Nintendo made the GC easier (than PS2 or Xbox) to make games for, yet port of Splinter Cell played better on PS2 than it did on GC. 3rd party ports on a Nintendo machine is a joke.

2. This was mentioned already in this thread...but they complain about how hard it is make games for (PS3 being the most recent one).

3. It costs time money to make a "good" game, most 3rd party developers are being cheap on games...then goes on and complain about how MS, Sony, or Nintendo does not provide enough support to them. Most recent one I've heard was regarding not getting enough online support from Nintendo for a Wii game; I am sorry unless you are planning to make WoW-like game on the Wii, please focus (3rd party) on making a decent single player game first. Smash Bros. on N64/GC was a fantastic game, and it did not have online.

/end rant.

Peter: I agree with you. If they take their time and make the game good, no one will care when it comes out. Case in point: Super Mario 64...the console was delayed more than a year probably just for the game, how many people remember that now? The game was good, and if thats the case with games that are delayed, then I am a happy camper.

icruise · Aug 9, 2007, 08:29 PM

In the developers' defense, it's often not them, but rather their financial backers or the higher ups in the company who demand that they stick to unrealistic schedules. It's all about money in the end. I think it's oversimplifying the situation just to say they're lazy.

Aegis · Aug 9, 2007, 08:31 PM

Originally Posted by Peter

I'm inclined to agree to be honest, as a consumer - why do I care why the game was delayed? The fact its delayed is enough to annoy me, saying its the playstations fault is ridiculous and just feels like they're trying to pass the bucket.
They got upto now thinking "tralala the PS3 is so easy to code on" and then suddenly overnight it became really hard?

But Rockstar themselves didn't say it was the PS3's coding did they? I thought that was just speculation.

highstakes · Aug 9, 2007, 08:41 PM

Originally Posted by icruise

In the developers' defense, it's often not them, but rather their financial backers or the higher ups in the company who demand that they stick to unrealistic schedules. It's all about money in the end. I think it's oversimplifying the situation just to say they're lazy.

You are right, maybe I am mixing up developers with publishers...or vice versa.

goMac · Aug 9, 2007, 09:11 PM

Alright, I've got a Premium with HDMI. I'm not opening it up to check around the internals, but the box is marked that it is a "Zephyr" Premium. The Zephyr was the codename of the Elite, so it should be using the same board. This doesn't rule out 65nm, it's possible that that the processors were changed without the board changing.

The build date is 2007-07-06.

highstakes · Aug 9, 2007, 09:26 PM

Originally Posted by goMac

Alright, I've got a Premium with HDMI. I'm not opening it up to check around the internals, but the box is marked that it is a "Zephyr" Premium. The Zephyr was the codename of the Elite, so it should be using the same board. This doesn't rule out 65nm, it's possible that that the processors were changed without the board changing.

The build date is 2007-07-06.

You should check to see if 360 is immune to red ring of death.

goMac · Aug 9, 2007, 09:40 PM

It would seem I'm immune.

highstakes · Aug 9, 2007, 09:47 PM

Nice! Wish my 4th 360 (not yet broken) had that.

icruise · Aug 15, 2007, 12:26 PM

Looks like the Xbox 360s with HDMI still don't have the smaller, cooler chips.

HDMI-equipped Xbox 360 Premiums still carry 90nm chips - Engadget

goMac · Aug 31, 2007, 03:19 AM

IGN: Lair Review

Lair has received a 4.9/10 from IGN. Poor controls, bad gameplay, and the inability of the PS3 to run Lair at a smooth framerate are reasons cited.

icruise · Aug 31, 2007, 04:03 AM

I'll have to say the PS3's big titles aren't shaping up very well.

exca1ibur · Aug 31, 2007, 11:50 AM

GamePro 3.8 / 5 Sep 1, 2007
Electronic Gaming Monthly 5.5 / 10 Sep 1, 2007
Play Magazine 9 / 10 Aug 1, 2007

Other sites gave it better reviews. Who is right? Moral of the story...

Judge for yourself.

icruise · Aug 31, 2007, 12:08 PM

Play Magazine, while a pretty good read, gives ridiculously high scores for the games that they feature. Actually, the fact that they didn't give it a 10 is kind of telling.

exca1ibur · Aug 31, 2007, 01:18 PM

I agree. My point is you have reviews from various sources all over the place. I'd rather make my own decision on the game. I've played too many games people liked I hated, and vice versa.

icruise · Aug 31, 2007, 01:24 PM

True enough. I'm surprised by the low reviews that Blue Dragon is getting, for example. I thought the Japanese version was good. Maybe they screwed up the localization or something.

icruise · Sep 1, 2007, 12:36 AM

Lair is a beautiful disaster, says Gamespot.

AC Rempt · Sep 1, 2007, 01:06 AM

Honestly, I have a Wii and a PS3, and I'm more excited about Resident Evil 4 and Metroid than anything coming for the PS3. Knowing that you can get Marathon on XBox Live has me thinking of ditching the PS3 and getting a crappy ass XBox.

highstakes · Sep 1, 2007, 01:50 AM

been playing Warhawk since beating Bioshock, even with my crappy connection, I can host a 24 player game. I bought Blue Dragon, it seems like a waste of money so far (I think I will listen to Gamespot for Lair as well)....I think the only games I want for rest of the year is probably PGR 4, Modern Combat, and Folklore.

Tar_heel · Sep 2, 2007, 08:33 PM

Hey i just got a quick question about Haze. People are saying its gona be ps3 exclusive, but in the xbox 360 magazine they had the trailer for it... so im confusd lol. Thanks to anyone that can help. Cheers : )

goMac · Sep 6, 2007, 04:38 PM

The PS3 version of Orange Box has been delayed, the XBox 360 version will be shipping on time:

MyArcadePlanet.Com: Cheats, Reviews, Previews, and more - Story: Yet Again, Delayed: Orange Box (PS3)

pyrite · Sep 6, 2007, 06:56 PM

once again a major, experienced developer delays a release due to problems developing for PS3... did sony design a games console or a mystierious mega-machine that only they can code games for?
I'm calling the latter... by the time the mainstream dev community gets their head around how to code for this thing, there'll quite possibly be a new Xbox that will blow its specs out of the water, and is EASY to develop for. The sheer processing power required to do such a thing will be available by then.. nothing about Sony's strategy makes sense to me

icruise · Sep 6, 2007, 07:00 PM

Once again? When was the first time? We have no indication that GTA4's delay is due to the PS3.

pyrite · Sep 6, 2007, 07:26 PM

Originally Posted by icruise

Once again? When was the first time? We have no indication that GTA4's delay is due to the PS3.

are you serious?

icruise · Sep 6, 2007, 07:46 PM

Yes... Show me where the developers have said that.

pyrite · Sep 6, 2007, 07:52 PM

We all know that PS3, as enormous as its potential is, is a dog to develop for. highly unconventional hardware always is.

Of course developers don't say it outright.

icruise · Sep 6, 2007, 08:02 PM

I'm rapidly becoming disenchanted with the PS3 due to the lack of decent games, so it's not like I'm just blindly defending it, but I think you have to be careful about making assumptions like that.

highstakes · Sep 6, 2007, 09:43 PM

Originally Posted by icruise

I'm rapidly becoming disenchanted with the PS3 due to the lack of decent games, so it's not like I'm just blindly defending it, but I think you have to be careful about making assumptions like that.

Agreed.

pyrite · Sep 6, 2007, 10:00 PM

I'm not trying to pick a fight at all iCruise, and I might be wrong.. but I thought it was common knowledge that the Cell chip is hugely more difficult to code games for than conventional architecture? Isn't it then logical that this will incur dev delays? (I'm not talking about GTAIV, I'm speaking very generally)

highstakes · Sep 8, 2007, 02:06 PM

Originally Posted by pyrite

I'm not trying to pick a fight at all iCruise, and I might be wrong.. but I thought it was common knowledge that the Cell chip is hugely more difficult to code games for than conventional architecture? Isn't it then logical that this will incur dev delays? (I'm not talking about GTAIV, I'm speaking very generally)

Not according to Valve. Every console is a pain to develop for for the first year or two. Iguana delayed Turok (in development since the days of "Dream Team") for the N64 because it was a nightmare to develop for, yet Turok 2 shipped right on time with a shorter development time.

So logically speaking, your half right. Its only a problem for the first year or so.