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You are here: MacNN Forums > Hardware - Troubleshooting and Discussion > Mac Notebooks > Can I pop the keys off to make a dvorak keyboard

Can I pop the keys off to make a dvorak keyboard
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poulh
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Apr 23, 2005, 11:16 AM
 
I popped the keys off of my pro keyboard (real easy) with a butter knife and switched them around to the Dvorak layout... now I want to do it to my 12" AL powerbook... i tried popping one off, but it didn't want to move and I didn't want to break it.


Are the keys removable? Any sites for this with instruction? Thanks!
     
Scampura
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Apr 23, 2005, 12:55 PM
 
About a year ago I rearranged all the keys on my 15" aluminum PB to the Dvorak layout, and then I put them back to Qwerty a few months later once I'd memorized the layout for touch-typing. The bad news is that it's easy to break the keys if you're not painstakingly careful. I ruined my right shift key (but thankfully AppleCare fixed it voluntarily when I sent in my computer for a screen repair).

It can be done, though.
     
f1000
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Apr 30, 2005, 09:56 AM
 
From the PB FixIt Guide:
  • This is scary - take a deep breath before continuing. Place your index finger under the upper left corner of the key and lift up until you hear a click. Then, transfer your finger to the left edge of the key and lift up to pull the key off.
  • You're freeing the two tabs on the left of the key from the two small holes in the plastic scissors mechanism.
  • When replacing the keys in the keyboard, place the key directly over the slot where it will go and press down until you hear the key click into place.
     
pete
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Jun 17, 2005, 11:20 AM
 
I'd really like to do this too. Did you go ahead with your plan? Are there any tools that help remove the keycaps? I'd like to hear from more people who have done this before I ruin my keyboard.

Thanks....
     
zerf25
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Jun 17, 2005, 10:39 PM
 
I did this on my 12" PB and it worked great.
It is kind of scary though.
use the PB FixIt Guide to take off the keyboard and it will be a little easier.

The looks on your friends when they see the Dvorak is priceless
     
asodamiac
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Jun 18, 2005, 06:03 AM
 
just looked up the dvorak keyboard and even read up on it a bit. i cant even begin to imagine how i would type on one of those. looks intimidating.
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pete
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Jun 18, 2005, 06:57 AM
 
It's actually much easier to do that you'd think - and makes much more sense. The problem is having to use a regular keyboard afterward....
     
asodamiac
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Jun 18, 2005, 02:36 PM
 
i was looking at the diagrams and its just way too different for me to adapt to. im comfortable with the way things are
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zerf25
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Jun 18, 2005, 08:06 PM
 
I started using Dvorak a couple of months ago and didn't retrain on it. So my speed on it is still pretty low but it is getting better. I still have to look at the keys some to remind myself.
I never truly trained on QWERTY so I've never had supersonic speed, but I use my computer a lot so I do very well.
The odd thing is that now that I use Dvorak, I'm also faster on QWERTY.
     
pxlshftr
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Jun 29, 2005, 04:08 PM
 
I am interested in trying out Dvorak on my PB keyboard as well, however one of the things that i'm afraid will be too difficult to transition is the use of hotkeys. Can anyone tell me what its like having to learn all new key positions for hotkeys such as copy, paste, cmd+q, cmd+w, cmd+comma, cmd+j, cmd+shift+a, cmd+l, etc. As you can tell, i use a number of keyboard shortcuts all the time, and i'm afraid the new positions of keys makes some of these shortcuts unuseable with one hand.
     
Scampura
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Jun 29, 2005, 05:17 PM
 
You can either use dvorak shortcuts or qwerty shortcuts. For qwerty shortcuts, use the input method "DQ" when you turn on dvorak. For the dvorak shortcuts, use "DV."
     
poulh  (op)
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Dec 20, 2005, 11:48 AM
 
I was real fast on QWERTY, and I think I'm almost as fast now on DVORAK, but I have more errors still. I still haven't popped the keys off as others use my keyboard and I have the keys memorized.

The big thing I like about DVORAK is that your hands barely move on the keyboard. This keeps my wrists from hurting especially when I'm sitting at a funny angle (like lying on the couch).

Whenever I have to switch back to QWERTY I don't like it anymore due to how much my hands have to move around the keyboard.
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iREZ
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Dec 20, 2005, 01:15 PM
 
this seems really cool, but im too used to qwerty and there really is no need for me to type that much faster, is there a way to remap the keys on a powerbook though? i didnt see anybody mention anything on the software front.
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Sijmen
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Dec 20, 2005, 06:26 PM
 
Originally Posted by iREZ
this seems really cool, but im too used to qwerty and there really is no need for me to type that much faster, is there a way to remap the keys on a powerbook though? i didnt see anybody mention anything on the software front.
Go to System Preferences - International - Input Menu

There you can select the type of layout you want
And by enabling 'Show input menu in menu bar' you can switch from layout instantly.

EDIT: btw, you can even let the dvorak layout be shown in a small window.
( Last edited by Sijmen; Dec 20, 2005 at 06:51 PM. Reason: some additions)
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AmericanPsych0
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Dec 20, 2005, 07:51 PM
 
Originally Posted by iREZ
this seems really cool, but im too used to qwerty and there really is no need for me to type that much faster, is there a way to remap the keys on a powerbook though? i didnt see anybody mention anything on the software front.
The main reason people switch to Dvorak, from what I gather, isn't to type faster because most won't--it's the fact that it's easier on your hands. Instead of running all over the keyboard for just about every word, the most common ones can be typed using mostly only the home row. Speaking of which, that's the only pain about learning Dvorak: so much can be typed from the home row that I tend to forget the palcement of the keys on the other two rows.
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poulh  (op)
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Dec 22, 2005, 01:56 AM
 
Originally Posted by Sijmen
And by enabling 'Show input menu in menu bar' you can switch from layout instantly.
yep, this is wqhat i do so others can use it
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poulh  (op)
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Dec 22, 2005, 01:57 AM
 
Originally Posted by AmericanPsych0
The main reason people switch to Dvorak, from what I gather, isn't to type faster because most won't--it's the fact that it's easier on your hands.
exaaaactly
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inkhead
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Dec 23, 2005, 05:25 PM
 
The whole Dvorak argument was put down several years ago. For a long time it was believed to be the "ultimate" keyboard layout, however most of the studies done comparing the two types of keyboards were funded by those interested in selling Dvorak. If you search google for Dvorak vs. QWERTY, not really faster" You will see a whole bunch of studies done by Standford and MIT that claim that Dvorak is not nearly as practical because the Dvorak keyboard has a much higher rate of error (they taugth people who've never used a keyboard before (didn't know there was anyone left!) and made typing actually slower. The second parts of the test also concluded that people using Dvorak layouts suffered just as much carpal tunnel syndrome as everyone else, and in some cases more because testing subjects were often told that Dvorak was "healthier" and in turn they took less care about ergonomics. Their conclusion in the end was that a adjustable split QWERTY keyboard (ergronomic) was by far the best, layout although a few wpm behind regular QWERTY keyboards.
     
inkhead
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Dec 23, 2005, 05:30 PM
 
I think the main reason people switch, is actually because they believe they will be more "elite"

Originally Posted by poulh
exaaaactly
     
Frans
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Dec 25, 2005, 07:21 AM
 
Hi there,

In december 2004 I changed my PB 12" keyboard to Dvorak. Bought a new PB 12" in november 2005. Switched back the old PB to QWERTY and changed the new one to Dvorak. It's a rather delicate operation, here's what I recommend you to do:

If you're a righthander:
- Take something rather thin, rather strong and not to wide (a butterknife would be to wide, a fish knife could be great. I used a nail file, worked fine for me.
- Each key has four connections to the board, 2 on the top and 2 on the bottom. Start with the top, after you have unlocked the 2 top connections you can simply slide down the key
- Only the A, the M, the top row untill 0 and the `stay in the same location, all other keys change location
- Start on the right end sight of the bottom row. Put the knife under the right top of a key and turn it 90 degrees counterclockwise so that the pressure is on the right top of the key. It will 'klick' loose.
- If the left top side of the key is still connected: push the knife a little further and turn it 90 degrees. Make sure you stay behind the plastic frame the key is mounted on
- When both top connections are unlocked you can slide the key down, releasing the connections at the bottom. You now have your first 'free' key.
- Continue this untill you have unlocked all relevant keys

You now have an almost empty keyboard. In each key location you should see the center 'button' and a small plastic frame where the key connects to. The plastic frame consists out of two elements that connect to each other in the center via two small plastic pins. Make sure that all plastic frames are in a down position (they are like that by default). If they are not 'downfolded' something is wrong, so check if they are connect in the center.

To put the keys into their new places:
- put the key exactly in the right location
- push straight down with gentle force
- you should here a 'click', and the key should be connected

If you're a lefthander you can best start with removing the keys from the left bottom side.

Let me know if you have any questions.

Good luck!

Frans

-Who is still waiting for the Mac Light to arrive, a delicious new laptop that weights about 1,5 kg, has a razorsharp 1200x800 screen, Blue Ray, 7 hours batterylife, DVI-connection and 160 Gb HD...
( Last edited by Frans; Feb 19, 2006 at 05:42 AM. )
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Jawbone54
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Dec 25, 2005, 08:53 PM
 
This just looks entirely too difficult to get the hang of. I've spent 10+ years becoming a good typist, and there's no way I'd have the time to learn this.

The only way I could see this being advisable is if someone is handicapped and unable to use both hands.
     
Sosa
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Dec 25, 2005, 10:51 PM
 
Awesome. I've been wanting to do this for a while now. Went to the Apple store and they said it couldn't be done. Well I do believe Dvorak is a superior typing system, just from my own experience with it. I'm sure there might be an elitist preference too, but that's true about a lot of things, like being a Mac user.

Anyway I will follow the above advice when I finally decide to follow through.
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poulh  (op)
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Jan 5, 2006, 10:09 AM
 
For one-handed typists, use this

http://www.onehandedkeyboard.com/ima...vroakright.gif

Originally Posted by Jawbone54

The only way I could see this being advisable is if someone is handicapped and unable to use both hands.
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