Welcome to the MacNN Forums.

pete · Nov 8, 2005, 10:36 AM

Up until May when I started having problems with RSI and needed to use speech recognition only available for XP I had always used powerbooks and been satisfied - despite experiencing a fair share of repairs over the years. In June I sold my powerbook and bought a used THinkpad T40 which I used up until last week when I sold it because I longed for a powerbook and felt that I didn't use the speech recognition as much as I had anticipated.

Last week I was going to order a new powerbook through amazon but started reading about all the people with the horizontal line issue. Sadly, it stopped me from ordering one. If Apple had acknowledged the problem and stated that it will repair defective LCDs, I would just take my chances, but they haven't and I could be permanently stuck with a faulty LCD. At the same time, I feel that the older generation hasn't really come down in price enough for there to be a major difference, at least compared with the $1799 price at Amazon. I also was excited about the new resolution...

So, here I am feeling lost without a laptop. I even was looking around at used thinkpads AGAIN, thinking that I could get by with one for a year or so while Apple makes the transition to intel. I had trouble getting used to the mess of XP and felt that everything was illogical and cluttered, not to mention the poor multi-tasking and tendency to get corrupted in various ways. On the other hand, thinkpad hardware is really solid and they have great warranty.

I don't know what's wrong with Apple quality control these days. I mean, it seems like they just can't make a single product without some relatively major issue. Buying a $2000 powerbook shouldn't be a hit or miss purchase.

Any healthy, reasoned advice would be much welcome!

typoon · Nov 8, 2005, 11:01 AM

I don't think that issue you speak of is a Major issue. A serious one yes. Their Quality control isn't as bad as people say it is. You only hear about those who have a "bad one" from Apple. So far every Apple Product I've bought with exception of 1 iPod I've had great success with. No problems at all. Problems are bound to come up when things like computers or cars are mass produced by anyone. I'm sure other companies have had problems as well. You just don't hear about them because most aren't as vocal as us Mac users.

I say get the Powerbook if you want it. Get Applecare with it and if a problem arises you'll be covered.

typoon · Nov 8, 2005, 11:01 AM

I don't think that issue you speak of is a Major issue. A serious one yes. Their Quality control isn't as bad as people say it is. You only hear about those who have a "bad one" from Apple. So far every Apple Product I've bought with exception of 1 iPod I've had great success with. No problems at all. Problems are bound to come up when things like computers or cars are mass produced by anyone. I'm sure other companies have had problems as well. You just don't hear about them because most aren't as vocal as us Mac users.

I say get the Powerbook if you want it. Get Applecare with it and if a problem arises you'll be covered.

mduell · Nov 8, 2005, 11:03 AM

Buy it with a credit card. If the lines annoy you, return it promptly (and involve the CC company if Apple is a pain about it).

Even with AppleCare I doubt they'll do anything for you if Apple says it's normal/not a problem.

typoon · Nov 8, 2005, 11:18 AM

Double post

striker100 · Nov 8, 2005, 11:25 AM

I would bring it up as a possible issue when you go to purchase it. Say that you have read that it's an issue with some new Powerbooks and you want to make sure if you get one that has the problem you have no problem returning it.

typoon · Nov 8, 2005, 11:45 AM

Doesn't Amazon have a good return policy?

VisualForces · Nov 8, 2005, 01:08 PM

Amazon's return policy blows Apple's away. I ordered an iBook from Amazon and returned it 26 days later for a full refund with no questions asked.

It depends on what you do with your PowerBook. Casual use won't give any problems...if you do professional work with it, then you will probably be annoyed from time to time by them.

pete · Nov 8, 2005, 06:48 PM

Thanks guys. It's all too tempting to order from Amazon, especially with the $200rebate offer now. BUT I've decided to wait a little longer to see how things develop with the screen issues. Even if Amazon's return policy is great, it still involves shipping, waiting for UPS etc and, chances are, getting a replacement that is the same. I'd prefer to wait until we know if this is going to be addressed by Apple or not.

It's not like Amazon will never have a good rebate offer again....

cheers,
pete

mrmister · Nov 8, 2005, 09:07 PM

You should probably go look at some PowerBooks--there are those that don't care about the horizontal lines, and maybe you fall in that camp.

broxy5 · Nov 8, 2005, 09:39 PM

Have a look at the other thread about this. I posted a picture, and I've been told I have the lines. I think it's ridiculous, because I for the life of me cannot see them.

Go to a store, look at them, and if it's too much for you to bear, don't buy.

Journalist · Nov 8, 2005, 10:23 PM

By all means check out the other thread on this. It goes into greater depth and provides many useful images. Based on this I have certainly reconsidered the purchase of a new Powerbook 15". The other thread makes a good case for the previous model.

oblio · Nov 8, 2005, 11:34 PM

i recently picked one of the new 15" PBs. i certainly don't have any lines. if they are there, they aren't visible to the naked eye...

magicbbird · Nov 9, 2005, 12:18 AM

I took advantage of the new release and picked up an older model, which is now heavily discounted. For me I would rather save some money and stick with the old resolution and get an external HD for backup. Also the older model is very mature and have been praised all around. Unless you need to hook up a 30" screen, or need extra resolution on the road, you can always get an external screen for more screen space, and save a few bucks.

Colonel Tigh · Nov 9, 2005, 12:23 AM

I too was concerned.

But I realize that those with problems will post here in far greater ratios than those who don't have any problems. For the most part.

So I forged ahead and bought the 15" PowerBook at my local Apple Store and have not had any problems so far.

I love the 1440 x 960 resolution too! So much so that I returned my recently purchased 1600 x 1200 LCD flat panel. No real need for it anymore.

I noticed that they added little rubber stoppers to the display to firmly keep it above and off the keyboard when closed. Very nice touch I might add.

broxy5 · Nov 9, 2005, 12:34 AM

I too would agree with this Pb having a wonderful display. Given the choice between resolutions, it was a no brainer. Also, the base model has DL burner, 128mb video and backlit keyboard. These are all the goodies the top end model had.

He too hasn't said a peep about lines.

broxy5 · Nov 9, 2005, 12:34 AM

I too would agree with this Pb having a wonderful display. Given the choice between resolutions, it was a no brainer. Also, the base model has DL burner, 128mb video and backlit keyboard. These are all the goodies the top end model had.

He too hasn't said a peep about lines.

broxy5 · Nov 9, 2005, 12:38 AM

I think over all it's a price drop, seeing as the bottom o' the barrel model comes with DL burner, backlit keyboard and 128 video.

We are loving ours, and a buddy bought one at the same time, and he is pretty pleased as well. He has said nothing about lines.

motherduce · Nov 9, 2005, 01:55 AM

I ordered mine last night, it shipped today, and should arrive on Friday - I will let you know how mine turns out.

azbigfella · Nov 9, 2005, 10:30 AM

I picked up my new PowerBook last week. I read all the horror stories about the display and such, and I started freaking out a little -- especially when I started having freezes and kernal panics. However, removing the crappy RAM I installed (Kingston Value RAM -- big mistake) everything was fine. I will say that until that point, Apple was VERY supportive and helpful (I didn't tell them about the RAM right away as I didn't want to give them the easy 3rd-party memory cop-out -- like I said, big mistake).

Anyway, the PowerBook works just fine with the original 512M and I'm really pleased with it all around.

Now, I'm looking for quality gig sticks to replace the crappy Kingston Value RAM (did I say that was a big mistake?).

Oh, BTW, I don't see any of the problems with the lines on the display with my unit, and since hearing about it, I've looked at PowerBooks at two nearby Apple stores (PA and DE) and did not see any... I'm not saying it's not happening, but it's defintiely not universal.
azbigfella

pete · Nov 9, 2005, 05:40 PM

Hmm, I don't know what to think. From the pictures I've seen it's really hard to see what the LCD looks like in daily use. I mean, it doesn't make sense to zoom in X6 with a digital camera on an LCD screen - I tried taking a picture today of my imac 20" which has a wonderful LCD and the results were awful with various artefacts. When I was choosing a powerbook for my mother a few weeks ago I looked at the new 15" units at tekserve and didn't notice anything abnormal, except that everything seemed smallish because of the resolution. I think I just need to go look again! On the other hand, if you don't notice it unless gettin really close or zooming in on a picture, it really isn't that much of an issue for me.

I'll report what I find. I feel desperate for a new powerbook....

pete · Nov 10, 2005, 11:04 PM

Aaaaah, so I finally was going to go ahead and order from amazon. The page said there was ONE left in stock so I rushed through only to be scooped by somebody else with a notice saying that it won't ship until the 18th! I didn't press the submit button and here I am again wondering what to do.

Maybe it's a sign to just get the previous generation model....

So frustrated.

azbigfella · Nov 10, 2005, 11:23 PM

pete -- check your private messages -- AZB

azbigfella · Nov 11, 2005, 01:39 AM

follow up to my post above (11-9-05, 9:30AM):

To replace the crappy Kingston Value RAM that turned out to be causing serious problems, I purchased regular Kingston retail RAM tested for G4 PowerBooks (available through Kingston for $116USD/gig, which was only $30 more than the value ram) and installed 2G's. After some 36 hours, the machine has performed flawlessly, despite significant load tests and diagnostic routines. Smooth, fast processing, no hesitation, and certainly no freezes or panics. NICE. Also, as has been mentioned in other places, the HD is completely silent, with only faint i/o noises when operating.

This is a great machine -- and as my fifth mac (eighth counting the previous version PBooks I bought for my son and girlfriend), it's the best ever!

AZB

pete · Nov 11, 2005, 10:56 AM

azbigfella,
Thanks for the advic! I hadn't thought of that. I don't think I'm going to be able to make it over there this time though...but it's good to keep in mind for the future.

So, the choice is between one of the last generation Powerbooks (1.5ghz for 1650 or 1.67ghz for 1829) or waiting for amazon to get them back in stock. I keep asking myself if the resolution really is that important. I just recently purchased the old model for my mother and thought the LCD looked fantastic, even compared to the THinkpad I was using which I always considered to have a great screen.

Whew, don't know what I should do. Silly that these relatively trivial issues become so big! Have any of you compared the brightness of the old and new powerbooks 15"? There probably won't be any real speed difference between the 1.5 ghz and 1.67ghz, right? So it all boils down to resolution....

azbigfella · Nov 11, 2005, 11:39 AM

Pete,
I can't compare the new PBook with previous ones I've bought as my son's is with him at his AF Base in Montana (although I'll see him -- and it -- at Thanksgiving), and my girlfriend's PBook is with her, but she's not with me (another story altogether).

I would imagine that the 1.67 is not a huge speed difference, but MacWorld says there are some "subtle" gains just in the previous 1.67 (so the difference would be greater with the 1.5), plus other advantages from the improved technology (increased vram, faster ram, optical audio in, extra dvi out, etc) and there's also the addition of the DL Superdrive, but you probably already have one of those in your G5 (I do too, but it's nice to have the convenience included in the PBook): http://www.macworld.com/news/2005/10...arks/index.php
The full review is here:
http://www.macworld.com/2005/11/revi...4rev/index.php

It was all this other stuff that tipped the scale for me, not the speed or even the screen -- those were just nice-to-haves. And although the new screen is great (and my PBook zips right along with the new RAM), I think if I were to buy today given all this stuff I've heard since I bought, I'd take the following approach -- I'd only buy from an Apple Store, and then I wouldn't take it from the store until I opened it and powered it up and made sure the screen was fine. There are enough people out there that have apparently gotten bad ones that I think that's an important precaution. Further, I'd buy all the RAM I can, but make sure it's premium memory tested with PBooks -- the extra few bucks is worth it in performance and stability (but there are reasonable alternatives out there for that).

And then... ENJOY!
AZB

pete · Nov 11, 2005, 12:38 PM

Thanks for the encouragement. It's a lot of money for me, thus my hesitation. Unfortunately, I can't buy from an apple store because it would end up costing over $350 more (amazon with rebate is 1799 and apple store 1999 plus tax) so I just ordered from Amazon!

Getting a new powerbook is always so exciting! I hope it won't have any problems. If it does, I think Amazon.com is pretty good to deal with in terms of returns and replacements.

I'll let you know how things go.

Cheers,

Pete

azbigfella · Nov 11, 2005, 01:15 PM

You're right, Pete, I've had really good luck with the Amazon return policy in the past as well. Enjoy the new addition to the family!

If you want extra RAM, here's what worked for me: http://www.ec.kingston.com/shop/mode...9&SUBMIT1=Find

The link is for 1G sticks (4200) for $116/stick with free S&H -- if you can't access the link I pasted, then make sure you go through the kingston.com "specials" link, otherwise it's $160. The $116 price is only $30 more than the bargain RAM and it was well worth the difference for me. Others are having luck with crucial and you can find those recommendations in other threads, but Kingston worked for me in this baby.
AZB

pete · Nov 13, 2005, 05:54 PM

thanks for the ram advice. First I have to get a powerbook though and that isn't easy. Well, I'm going to decide now, but thought I'd ask for a pep talk. I've narrowed down my options to the following:

1. A new, older model 1.67 15" with superdrive for $1700 from a local guy. It's new and not used, bought a few weeks ago. I would be able to inspect it first which is in some ways an advantage over buying new given Apple's poor QC.

2. A new one from amazon, $1799 with rebate, plus benefits of buying with a credit card (double warranty and excellent warranty extension at lower cost)

I feel so torn. I would love the new resolution, but I I know that if I have the lines, they will probably irritate me. I'd prefer to not have to send it back because it takes time, cost shipping and is just generally irritating to have to deal with. I'm not sure if it's at all realistic to think that I would receive a powerbook without lines given that most people on these forums seem to have them and the APple store15" all had them. On the other hand, a lot of powerbooks are beings sold as we speak - wouldn't we hear more about the lines if everybody had them?

So, should I go with the sure bet or take a chance with amazon? Besides the resolution, would there really be any performance difference? It feels so crazy to buy an older model for only $100 less, but maybe the sure bet is the better choice? What do you think?

I promise this is the last display of powerbook purchase anxiety-schizophrenia from me...

Thanks!

Pete

PeterKG · Nov 13, 2005, 06:46 PM

Originally Posted by pete

I feel so torn. I would love the new resolution, but I I know that if I have the lines, they will probably irritate me. I'd prefer to not have to send it back because it takes time, cost shipping and is just generally irritating to have to deal with. I'm not sure if it's at all realistic to think that I would receive a powerbook without lines given that most people on these forums seem to have them and the APple store15" all had them. On the other hand, a lot of powerbooks are beings sold as we speak - wouldn't we hear more about the lines if everybody had them?

So, should I go with the sure bet or take a chance with amazon? Besides the resolution, would there really be any performance difference? It feels so crazy to buy an older model for only $100 less, but maybe the sure bet is the better choice? What do you think?

I promise this is the last display of powerbook purchase anxiety-schizophrenia from me...

Thanks!

Pete

Pete,

I went out and purchased a brand new PB yesterday, from the Apple store. It is perfect, with zero issues regarding screen, or anything else. It replaces my Rev B. and is hands down much faster than that computer. I have been running it with my new ACD 20" and it runs cooler than my old one too. The fan has not come on at all. I am very pleased with it and at first thought it might be foolish to upgrade, but now am happy I did. I say since your only talking about such a small difference in cash, that you should get the latest version. If not then buy a refirbished one from Apple and save more than what you will on the second choice one.

And stop letting these forums scare you away. It is a small fraction of users that you hear from. The majority are happy as I am and not posting on forums.

GoCats · Nov 13, 2005, 07:06 PM

I respectfully disagree that this is an issue that only a small fraction of users expereincing this. I'm fairly certain that every new powerbook has this issue, but that different people have different abilities to descern it. I made the analogy in another forum with mp3's. Some people think 128bit mp3's are just fine and can't tell the difference between that and a 256bit mp3. Others can definitely hear a difference... does that mean that there isn't a difference? No, it just means that you can't tell... nothing personal.

As far as I can tell, the horizontal lines are caused because pixel spacing is different top and bottom vs left and right. Though extremely small, you have to use a loop or magnafying glass to see this, it causes a visual effect of horizontal lines. This is NOT a "quality control" issue, as it's part an parcle to the design of the screen. However, some people will notice it more than others... but regardless, it is most definitely there.

I will say that it doesn't bother me all the time... only when I'm looking at pictures. If I'm browsing the web I don't notice it much at all... but when I look at pictures that are scaled to a lower display resolution than they actually are, then I see all kinds of lines and it's really annoying.

Anyway, that said, I could be wrong... but if you look at the screen through a loop, I think you'll see that there is a definite difference in pixel spread vertically vs. horizontally... which then makes sense why we see horizontal lines.

Originally Posted by PeterKG

Pete,

I went out and purchased a brand new PB yesterday, from the Apple store. It is perfect, with zero issues regarding screen, or anything else. It replaces my Rev B. and is hands down much faster than that computer. I have been running it with my new ACD 20" and it runs cooler than my old one too. The fan has not come on at all. I am very pleased with it and at first thought it might be foolish to upgrade, but now am happy I did. I say since your only talking about such a small difference in cash, that you should get the latest version. If not then buy a refirbished one from Apple and save more than what you will on the second choice one.

And stop letting these forums scare you away. It is a small fraction of users that you hear from. The majority are happy as I am and not posting on forums.

pete · Nov 13, 2005, 07:15 PM

If it is as you say with the pixels, is this something that is related to the size of this particular display? In other words, could it be different? It doesn't make sense to me that Apple would deliberately use a screen like this, when they must have known that it would lead to a lot of complaints and returns? Also, what is it about the 17" that makes it different? The size? Manufacturer?

As you can tell, I know very little about LCDs, but I'd like to understand how Apple could possible justify putting a display like this in their powerbooks, which they knew would subject to intense and often pro-level scrutiny. They obviously didn't skimp on their 17" displays - it doesn't make sense that they would skimp on their 15" displays...

mduell · Nov 13, 2005, 07:57 PM

Originally Posted by GoCats

As far as I can tell, the horizontal lines are caused because pixel spacing is different top and bottom vs left and right. Though extremely small, you have to use a loop or magnafying glass to see this, it causes a visual effect of horizontal lines. This is NOT a "quality control" issue, as it's part an parcle to the design of the screen. However, some people will notice it more than others... but regardless, it is most definitely there.

<snip>

Anyway, that said, I could be wrong... but if you look at the screen through a loop, I think you'll see that there is a definite difference in pixel spread vertically vs. horizontally... which then makes sense why we see horizontal lines.

Given the geometry of the screen, the horizontal and vertical pixel spacing is the same. It may be that the screens they are using have nonsquare pixels, resulting in gaps between lines of pixels. I consider that to be a quality assurance issue.

azbigfella · Nov 13, 2005, 08:08 PM

Originally Posted by pete

thanks for the ram advice. First I have to get a powerbook though and that isn't easy. Well, I'm going to decide now, but thought I'd ask for a pep talk...

Pete -- you know how I feel... I love my PBook and it operates flawlessly (once I installed the proper RAM). I'm not saying that all PBooks are good -- I'm just saying that mine is fine. And I believe the others see issues with their screens, but I don't think they should be saying that every PBook (like mine) is problematic. But I understand your consternation -- which is easy for me to say: All this time I've been reading these posts about how bad the new PBooks are, I was reading them on a screen on a new PBook that was fine, so it was simple for me to dismiss. You obviously don't have that advantage, which unfortunately neither do any other potential buyers reading this thread. And when they read sweeping generalizations like all PBooks are affected, even though others are saying they have units that aren't, well, I can see how it could be very confusing.

There's a lot of emotion and stark pronouncements in this thread around this issue, which is amusing, especially when I talk to Apple Store reps, CompUSA people, other PBook enthusiasts, and others who should have heard about this -- and they have no idea what I'm talking about (it's even tougher to explain when you're standing in front of a new PBook that no one can see the issue on). Of course, they could be playing dumb, playing a pivotal role in a larger Apple cover-up.

One thing you can do is just wait a couple weeks -- the foggy landscape you see now should clear somewhat in a couple of week or maybe in just a matter of days. If this issue is as dramatic as some say, that will become more obvious, but if not, it will all blow over -- waiting might be a small price to pay for some piece of mind. I wish I could tell you more, but all I can say is, like many others, I'm very happy with my PowerBook. Good luck! AZB

gwschreyer · Nov 13, 2005, 08:50 PM

get memtest from versiontracker

GoCats · Nov 14, 2005, 01:01 AM

Originally Posted by mduell

Given the geometry of the screen, the horizontal and vertical pixel spacing is the same. It may be that the screens they are using have nonsquare pixels, resulting in gaps between lines of pixels. I consider that to be a quality assurance issue.

The pixel spacing is definitely not the same. Look at your screen with a magnafying glass or loop... and the pixes (each RGB light) are rectangular.

GoCats · Nov 14, 2005, 01:02 AM

Originally Posted by mduell

Given the geometry of the screen, the horizontal and vertical pixel spacing is the same. It may be that the screens they are using have nonsquare pixels, resulting in gaps between lines of pixels. I consider that to be a quality assurance issue.

The pixel spacing is definitely not the same. Look at your screen with a magnafying glass or loop... and the pixes (each RGB light) are rectangular.

mduell · Nov 14, 2005, 01:13 AM

Originally Posted by GoCats

The pixel spacing is definitely not the same. Look at your screen with a magnafying glass or loop... and the pixes (each RGB light) are rectangular.

Of course, but the height of a R, G, or B sub-pixel should be the same as the width of the 3 together.

pete · Nov 14, 2005, 07:01 AM

I just ordered from Amazon (again). Won't cancel this time. I'll report what I find when I get it tomorrow.....

Can't say I'l that excited anymore. All this discussion makes me feel unsure abou this 'book.

thanks though for all the input. - I appreciate it.

GoCats · Nov 14, 2005, 01:38 PM

Originally Posted by mduell

Of course, but the height of a R, G, or B sub-pixel should be the same as the width of the 3 together.

Oops, you're right, I misunderstood.

pete · Nov 15, 2005, 02:32 PM

Ok, so I'm returning the powerbook I got from Amazon because of several problems: the LCD horizontal lines, an quite noticeable outward dent above the display release button and half-functioning space bar. Doesn't exactly make me feel confident in Apple's QC.

My remaining options are:

1. Get a powerbook G4 15" 1.5ghz of the previous generation and a ton of ram $1649
2. Get a used 1.67ghz of the previous generation , around $1700

3. Wait a few more days to see if Apple responds to the LCD problems

I actually sold my imac in order to get a powerbook and an cinema display so I'm essentially computerless - except for my girlfriend's 6 year old *PISMO* (what a great machine) that I'm using now. I need to get something this week, at the latest next week.

I don't really need the superdrive. The main attraction of the latest models was the higher resolution and more vram for the future. My main usage is light photoshop, dreamweaver, painter, word processing, internet./email. I use my computer a lot, but usually not very CPU intensive activities. A few questions:

- under what circumstances would 64mb vs. 128mb vram m ake a difference?
- Would there be any noticeable difference between the performance between the 1.5ghz and the 1.67ghz?
- Is there anything else that is different with the latest ones that would make waiting worthwhile?

PeterKG · Nov 15, 2005, 04:14 PM

Originally Posted by pete

Ok, so I'm returning the powerbook I got from Amazon because of several problems: the LCD horizontal lines, an quite noticeable outward dent above the display release button and half-functioning space bar. Doesn't exactly make me feel confident in Apple's QC.

My remaining options are:

1. Get a powerbook G4 15" 1.5ghz of the previous generation and a ton of ram $1649
2. Get a used 1.67ghz of the previous generation , around $1700

3. Wait a few more days to see if Apple responds to the LCD problems

I actually sold my imac in order to get a powerbook and an cinema display so I'm essentially computerless - except for my girlfriend's 6 year old *PISMO* (what a great machine) that I'm using now. I need to get something this week, at the latest next week.

I don't really need the superdrive. The main attraction of the latest models was the higher resolution and more vram for the future. My main usage is light photoshop, dreamweaver, painter, word processing, internet./email. I use my computer a lot, but usually not very CPU intensive activities. A few questions:

- under what circumstances would 64mb vs. 128mb vram m ake a difference?
- Would there be any noticeable difference between the performance between the 1.5ghz and the 1.67ghz?
- Is there anything else that is different with the latest ones that would make waiting worthwhile?

My new 1.67 is noticably faster than the 1.5 it replaces. It also runs with my 20" ACD better as it seems to run cooler. Why don't you just buy a new one from an Apple store, and have them let you inspect it first?

pete · Nov 15, 2005, 05:13 PM

I would love to have a 1.67ghz, provided that the LCD is better than the one I had today. Brightness, color etc was all superb, but the lines were there and, for whatever reason, my eyes didn't feel good using it. I can handle the actual lines, if they didn't hurt my eyes. And it wasn't the higher resolution, and smaller text, that did that.

The reason I don't buy from the apple store is that a) it would cost me almost $400 more than amazon (with no rebate and NY tax) and b) their return policy is much more conditional than amazon's. If I have any problem, I don't want to have to send it in for repair. I want to simply return it and have the return shipping paid for without any hassle.

It's hard to believe that as of today there is no powerbook that I really really want. It's a first!

mduell · Nov 15, 2005, 06:10 PM

Originally Posted by pete

Ok, so I'm returning the powerbook I got from Amazon because of several problems: the LCD horizontal lines, an quite noticeable outward dent above the display release button and half-functioning space bar. Doesn't exactly make me feel confident in Apple's QC.

What is with all these gripes about "Apple QC"? Apple never touches your machine between the factory and your house. It goes straight from the ASUSTeK/ECS/Quanta/Compal/whoever-makes-PowerBooks-today factory in Asia to you.
Welcome to the wonderful world of outsourcing.

pete · Nov 15, 2005, 06:26 PM

I don't care who Apple contracts with to make these computers. Apple is responsible for quality control of their computers, wherever they are made. I didn't buy an Asus, I bought an Apple and it is Apple that provideds me with repair services, support and warranties - not the actual manufacturer of the product.

I hold Apple fully responsible for any lack of quality control. If you have a better suggestion, I would welcome it.