[Kerrigan]

BBC NEWS | Europe | Row over Danish cartoon escalates

Once again, there is Muslim outrage over cartoons in Denmark. Typical reaction: burn flags, make death threats, suspend relations with the West, soon they will be killing people, etc.

[Kevin]

I say we stop giving them any coverage. And stop printing any threats. In other words, ignore it. When they aren't getting the spotlight anymore, and no one cares, their cause ceases to have any effect.

But once any attack or violence takes place, take care of it.

[D. S. Troyer]

Originally Posted by Kerrigan

soon they will be killing people, etc.

When did they stop!!??

[Buckaroo]

He we can't go without the standard muslim cartoon. Bomb Head.

[Spliffdaddy]

nice to know you, Buckaroo.

I'm quite sure you're marked for death after that.

[Sayf-Allah]

Originally Posted by Kevin

I say we stop giving them any coverage. And stop printing any threats. In other words, ignore it. When they aren't getting the spotlight anymore, and no one cares, their cause ceases to have any effect.

But once any attack or violence takes place, take care of it.

This doesn't happen often but........

[Sayf-Allah]

As for the article......

This is just a perfect example of extremists feeding extremists. They need each other to "survive". Ignore them both and start a dialogue. Problem solved within a couple of years.

[yakkiebah]

Yeah. This world needs more cartoonist and less extremist. The extremists need to have a dialogue how to change Islam.

[Sayf-Allah]

Originally Posted by yakkiebah

Yeah. This world needs more cartoonist and less extremist.

This last incident is because of people that are extremists and wannabe cartoonist. But I guess you missed that part......

[yakkiebah]

Originally Posted by Sayf-Allah

This last incident is because of people that are extremists and wannabe cartoonist. But I guess you missed that part......

Really? Did they burn or kill anything yet?

I guess the extremists from the west aren't what they used to be.

[Taliesin]

Originally Posted by yakkiebah

The extremists need to have a dialogue how to change Islam.

Exactly that's what they did in the 19th-century, they looked upon Islam, and thought it to be too weak, too vague and too tolerant, as well as too traditional, to cope with the reality of european colonialism, and therefore they developed Islamism, by mixing Islam with european political activism, ie. they turned a religion into a political ideology.

The needed enemy was spotted as being secularism, that the european colonists supposedly tried to infect the islamic world with.

Taliesin

[Sayf-Allah]

Originally Posted by yakkiebah

Really? Did they burn or kill anything yet?

I guess the extremists from the west aren't what they used to be.

It's quite obvious you don't have a clue who made the latest "cartoons". Inform yourself on that if you want to have a serious discussion.

[yakkiebah]

Originally Posted by Taliesin

Exactly that's what they did in the 19th-century, they looked upon Islam, and thought it to be too weak, too vague and too tolerant, as well as too traditional, to cope with the reality of european colonialism, and therefore they developed Islamism, by mixing Islam with european political activism, ie. they turned a religion into a political ideology.

The needed enemy was spotted as being secularism, that the european colonists supposedly tried to infect the islamic world with.

Taliesin

Ah of course, the bloody past(pre 19th-century) of Islam never happend. Islamic extremists of today are already much milder compared to what they were in those days. Maybe one day they'll be as mild as the average western nationalist and spend their time drawing cartoons.

[Taliesin]

Originally Posted by yakkiebah

Ah of course, the bloody past(pre 19th-century) of Islam never happend. Islamic extremists of today are already much milder compared to what they were in those days. Maybe one day they'll be as mild as the average western nationalist and spend their time drawing cartoons.

The bloody past of Islam indeed happened, just like the considerably bloodier past of Christianity, but you missed my point.

Oh, by the way, islamic extremists of today are potentially way more dangerous and violent as the most violent islamic empires of the past. They are just lacking the ressources and support of empires.

Taliesin

[Buckaroo]

Originally Posted by Spliffdaddy

nice to know you, Buckaroo.

I'm quite sure you're marked for death after that.

What Bomb Head is going to come after me? Ha!

[yakkiebah]

Originally Posted by Sayf-Allah

It's quite obvious you don't have a clue who made the latest "cartoons". Inform yourself on that if you want to have a serious discussion.

A serious discussion about what exactly? Who cares who made these cartoons, it changes nothing to the "discussion".

Let me inform you about who made these cartoons:

The video was produced by an artists' group, Defending Denmark. In a message posted along with the video, the group said it had infiltrated the Danish People's Party Youth, known as DFU, for 18 months "to document (their) extreme right wing associations."

"This is not an example of something that is meant to provoke. This is an example to show how things are in Danish politics," artist Martin Rosengaard Knudsen told Danish public radio.

The clip was removed from that broadcaster's Web site Monday, as well as from the Nyhedsavisen newspaper's site. The purpose of the original publication was "not to insult Muslims or expose any members ... to any danger," said the paper's editor, David Trads.

A party official reportedly said that two youths seen in the video clips had gone into hiding.

Web sites remove videos mocking Muhammad

Hilarious, they infiltrate a right wing organization draw a bunch of cartoons and now have to hide from being killed from the real bigots.

[Pendergast]

Originally Posted by yakkiebah

A serious discussion about what exactly? Who cares who made these cartoons, it changes nothing to the "discussion".

Let me inform you about who made these cartoons:



Hilarious, they infiltrate a right wing organization draw a bunch of cartoons and now have to hide from being killed from the real bigots.

So, the bigots from the right are not bigots?
Because they are from the right, they cannot be bigots?

[itai195]

Originally Posted by Sayf-Allah

This is just a perfect example of extremists feeding extremists. They need each other to "survive". Ignore them both and start a dialogue. Problem solved within a couple of years.

I agree

I defended the original cartoons because I thought they at least had something to say. These seem to have been produced merely for the purpose of provoking a reaction that the creators knew would be violent in nature. That's not protected speech.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by Pendergast

So, the bigots from the right are not bigots?
Because they are from the right, they cannot be bigots?

Waah where did you get that?

[yakkiebah]

Originally Posted by Pendergast

So, the bigots from the right are not bigots?
Because they are from the right, they cannot be bigots?

They are not bigoted on the same scale. The very fact that people had to go into hiding proves this.

[Pendergast]

Originally Posted by yakkiebah

They are not bigoted on the same scale. The very fact that people had to go into hiding proves this.

Oh, so they are biggots, but on a different scale...

So you are saying that biggotry is scalable?

So a quiet biggot is better than a noisy one?

[Pendergast]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Waah where did you get that?

Read ital95's post before yours. It says it all.

[Kevin]

I am talking about the post you responded to.

[Pendergast]

Originally Posted by Kevin

I am talking about the post you responded to.

So was I.

[Kevin]

No, I am saying how did you get that from what he said? He never said any such thing in which you claimed. AKA "So, the bigots from the right are not bigots?"

In other words, you took what he said, and spun it into a exaggeration.

[CRASH HARDDRIVE]

Originally Posted by itai195

These seem to have been produced merely for the purpose of provoking a reaction that the creators knew would be violent in nature. That's not protected speech.

Wow. And talk about people giving up their rights for some sort of false security. So now some kid's cartoon ( A CARTOON!!!!) "isn't protected speech" because it might offend some hyper-sensitive busybody zealot maniacs? Un-freakin' believable.


From the AP news article:

cartoons of a camel wearing the head of Muhammad and beer cans for humps. A second drawing placed a turbaned, bearded man next to a plus sign and a bomb, all equaling a mushroom cloud.

Sounds kinda stupid and run of the mill, but nothing that "young people" anywhere in the world don't come up with- especially aimed at zealot freaks who ram the notion down their throats that they are absolutely forbidden -under threat of death- not to.

In a move aimed at defusing tension, the Danish Foreign Ministry met ambassadors from Muslim countries to discuss the video Monday. It was unclear how many diplomats took part in the meeting hosted by Foreign Ministry director Ulrik Federspiel or which countries they represented.

Un-freakin' believable. Diplomats meeting to discus someone’s freakin' political video. That's just... bizarre.

Foreign Ministry officials explained to the ambassadors that the government had denounced the drawings and that the footage had been removed from the two Web sites that had posted it, the ministry said.

Denounced a freakin' drawing... but how about denouncing the total stupidity of rioting and threatening violence over a freakin' cartoon?

Prime Minister Anders Fogh Rasmussen condemned the youth in the video Sunday, saying "their tasteless behavior does in no way represent the way the Danish people or young Danish people view Muslims or Islam."

How does he know? Maybe there are a lot of Danish people young and old that are getting sick and tired of being told what they can and can't say, do, print, travel, or even think by a bunch of Muslim zealot assholes from the tenth century, and the bunch of spineless twit bureaucrats who kiss their asses.

[Spliffdaddy]

hmm.

I'm worried about Buckaroo.

Haven't heard from him in quite a few hours.

Reckon he got blowed-up?

[Eug Wanker]

Originally Posted by Pendergast

Oh, so they are biggots, but on a different scale...

So you are saying that biggotry is scalable?

Of course it is.

P.S. There's only one "g" in "bigot".

[itai195]

Originally Posted by CRASH HARDDRIVE

Wow. And talk about people giving up their rights for some sort of false security. So now some kid's cartoon ( A CARTOON!!!!) "isn't protected speech" because it might offend some hyper-sensitive busybody zealot maniacs? Un-freakin' believable.

Incitement to violence isn't a right, no matter how idiotic the violent reaction seems.

[Spliffdaddy]

Then stop posting here.

You're making me have a violent reaction.

If I were to kill somebody because a liberal's statement pissed me off - you would be required to stop making liberal statements.

Even if it's a "idiotic violent reaction", right?

Dude. Your point was so lame it defines lameness.

[itai195]

I wonder if Zimph will call that an ad hominem?

Note again that these are extremists posting this crap just because they know stupid extremist Muslims will react violently.

[Spliffdaddy]

I think that's a problem for the stupid extremist Muslims to deal with. If your religious beliefs cannot stand up to ridicule or outright humor, then perhaps your religious beliefs are BS.

I forget who said it first, but it's the best advice you can give a human being:

"The world doesn't care about your self-esteem."

[TheWOAT]

I agree with SpliffStar. I dont believe in being bullied to censor comedic material.
here's an old one from David Letterman's top ten list:

"If you dont own a camel, you aint Shiite"

[itai195]

Originally Posted by Spliffdaddy

I forget who said it first, but it's the best advice you can give a human being:

"The world doesn't care about your self-esteem."

I agree. Doesn't excuse the behavior that purposely incites such violence, IMO.

[CRASH HARDDRIVE]

Originally Posted by itai195

Incitement to violence isn't a right, no matter how idiotic the violent reaction seems.

I'm sorry, but this is just nonsense in this case. A person drawing a cartoon (ANY CARTOON) is not a legitimate "incitement to violence". People with a 10th century mindset need to grow the F up and realize that other people can draw cartoons about whatever the hell they damn well please in free societies. Don't like that? Then stay in the 10th century and don't bother those that have moved past it.

Now sure, you can be offended over some cartoon, disapprove, disagree, call it crap, or whatever else. But get violent over it? No. That’s complete backward-ass bullshit. The Danes need to grow a backbone and stop letting a bunch of freaks dictate this bullshit to them.

Just look where this appeasement bullshit has gotten them already- now the busybodies that are making a new political career out of exploiting this kind of bullshit know they can monitor the Danes, throw a tantrum whenever something they disagree with is published or airs, and have the spineless government weenies roll out the red carpet for them, denounce their own citizens, and basically cow-tow to their demands. It’s disgusting.

Either kneel down and become a Muslim country that worships Mohammad, or stand up for the freedoms of citizens to speak, write, draw a freakin’ cartoon of Mohammad -or anything else- if they damn well feel like it.

[Sayf-Allah]

Originally Posted by itai195

I agree

I defended the original cartoons because I thought they at least had something to say. These seem to have been produced merely for the purpose of provoking a reaction that the creators knew would be violent in nature. That's not protected speech.

[Sayf-Allah]

Originally Posted by yakkiebah

A serious discussion about what exactly? Who cares who made these cartoons, it changes nothing to the "discussion".

Let me inform you about who made these cartoons:

Hilarious, they infiltrate a right wing organization draw a bunch of cartoons and now have to hide from being killed from the real bigots.

You think the artist organisation made the cartoons? If so, read the article again.

[Kevin]

Sayf it doesn't matter who made them. The reactions to it isn't justified. In no way.

You keep ignoring the reactions, and keep on that road of belittling those who made the cartoons.

While I agree they shouldn't be doing things on PURPOSE, their actions aren't worse than the Muslims rioting and threatening murder.

So lets put things in perspective a bit.

[Sayf-Allah]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Sayf it doesn't matter who made them. The reactions to it isn't justified. In no way.

You keep ignoring the reactions, and keep on that road of belittling those who made the cartoons.

While I agree they shouldn't be doing things on PURPOSE, their actions aren't worse than the Muslims rioting and threatening murder.

So lets put things in perspective a bit.

I'm not ignoring the reactions. So far the reactions haven't turned violent afaik (burning flags is not violent, just stupid).

Like I said, this is a perfect example of extremists feeding extremists. Neo-nazis do this to fuel the hate of Muslim extremists. These same Muslim extremists then react in a violent way (most likely) which in turn give the neo-nazis a chance to say "I told you so". At the same time the Muslim extremists tell their followers "I told you so as well".

We need to ignore these two extremist groups and work together. Unfortunately I can't see that happening any time soon.

[vmarks]

Originally Posted by itai195

I agree

I defended the original cartoons because I thought they at least had something to say. These seem to have been produced merely for the purpose of provoking a reaction that the creators knew would be violent in nature. That's not protected speech.

Picking and choosing the speech you like and calling only the speech you like 'protected' is not really the nature of free speech.

If you support freedom, it means enduring exercises of freedom you don't necessarily approve of.

Libertarians like to say that one person's freedom ends when it harms another.

Provokative speech and drawings about Mohammed haven't harmed anyone, instead the burning of embassies and riots by those who don't know how to handle their offense caused the harm. The drawings in evidence are not incitement, they didn't instruct anyone to go out and riot or harm people.

[vmarks]

Originally Posted by Sayf-Allah

We need to ignore these two extremist groups and work together. Unfortunately I can't see that happening any time soon.

Tell me more about this 'working together' you propose. It's the first time you've made overtures like this instead of the 'I hope you get what you deserve' threats.

So, what are you doing to 'work together' ?

[yakkiebah]

Originally Posted by Sayf-Allah

I'm not ignoring the reactions. So far the reactions haven't turned violent afaik (burning flags is not violent, just stupid).

Like I said, this is a perfect example of extremists feeding extremists. Neo-nazis do this to fuel the hate of Muslim extremists. These same Muslim extremists then react in a violent way (most likely) which in turn give the neo-nazis a chance to say "I told you so". At the same time the Muslim extremists tell their followers "I told you so as well".

We need to ignore these two extremist groups and work together. Unfortunately I can't see that happening any time soon.

Neo-nazis? Are you kidding? Does This look like a typical nazi gathering to you?

[Sayf-Allah]

Originally Posted by yakkiebah

Neo-nazis? Are you kidding? Does This look like a typical nazi gathering to you?

Fortunately I haven't been to a neo-nazi gathering but perhaps you could tell me what a typical neo-nazi gathering looks like?

Read up on the party these kids support.

[Sky Captain]

The "party" they support?
Please elaborate. Really.

[yakkiebah]

Originally Posted by Sayf-Allah

Fortunately I haven't been to a neo-nazi gathering but perhaps you could tell me what a typical neo-nazi gathering looks like?

Read up on the party these kids support.

I guess you are kidding then. Never seen neo-nazis on TV?

A quick search on youTube: Neo-Nazis attack antifascist rally.

Hint: the nazi idiots are the ones standing in the door opening(skip movie to 01:40).

[Macrobat]

Not to mention that, until the "infiltrators" aired their little video, the cartoons were never intended for public consumption in the first place.

[Rumor]

Need pictures to judge to offensiveness.

[Sayf-Allah]

Originally Posted by Sky Captain

The "party" they support?
Please elaborate. Really.

Read OP. Then you can educate yourself on the party.

[Sky Captain]

Umm, "OP" ?

[yakkiebah]

Originally Posted by Rumor

Need pictures to judge to offensiveness.

The pictures are in these video's.

video 1
video 2
video 3
video 4