[mduell]

Originally Posted by Brazuca

I'm not only looking for Merom (because it might help if Leopard has 64bits and development in the future goes that way), but I really want an updated case that supports more memory, has more ports, more battery capacity, faster optical drive, better GPU, etc.

I'm going to spend $2500. I want it to get as much as I can.

More memory is available today. If you're willing to drop to 533Mhz memory instead of 667Mhz, you can have 4GB. I can't see that improving until Santa Rosa is released early next year.
More ports is possible, but it would require an internal reshuffling.
More battery capacity is possible, but unlikely. It would make the whole laptop bigger and heavier.
Faster optical drives aren't avalable in the super-slim (9.5mm) size Apple needs thanks to their decision to go with the wider trackpad.
A better GPU, or at least clocking the current one up to it's nominal frequency, is possible, and I'd even say likely.

[justinkim]

I'm waiting because I would really like that 10-20% speed bump at the same processor speed and I'm hoping that the high end of the Core 2 Macbook Pros will ship with a 2.33 GHz processor as opposed to the current 2.16GHz max.

I wouldn't say no to a faster GPU, either.

Case redesign or a faster optical drive aren't really that important to me.

I'd like to get as much power as possible in my next purchase to stave off the next upgrade for as long as possible.

[Brazuca]

Originally Posted by mduell

More memory is available today. If you're willing to drop to 533Mhz memory instead of 667Mhz, you can have 4GB. I can't see that improving until Santa Rosa is released early next year.
More ports is possible, but it would require an internal reshuffling.
More battery capacity is possible, but unlikely. It would make the whole laptop bigger and heavier.
Faster optical drives aren't avalable in the super-slim (9.5mm) size Apple needs thanks to their decision to go with the wider trackpad.
A better GPU, or at least clocking the current one up to it's nominal frequency, is possible, and I'd even say likely.

All signs point to no on the memory front. People who have tried report problems and usually can only get 2Gb recognized. I'm certainly not going to drop $2500 on a hope if I can wait to see what else is out there. It boils down to getting more information. I'm in no hurry right now, and all signs point to a revision in the next weeks. If the new MBPs are underwhelming, then I can pick up a RevA for cheap and get an external 23" monitor or something.

[SierraDragon]

I don't know why most folks insist on thinking in today's terms only regarding RAM needs, graphics needs, chipset architecture, etc. E.g. Does 64-bit matter to apps today? No. Will 64-bit matter to certain important apps 2008-2009, perhaps even 2007? Yes.

We are talking about new box purchases with life cycles of 2007-2008-2009 and sometimes beyond. So please folks try to think in that time frame instead of just August 2006.

[mduell]

Originally Posted by SierraDragon

I don't know why most folks insist on thinking in today's terms only regarding RAM needs, graphics needs, chipset architecture, etc. E.g. Does 64-bit matter to apps today? No. Will 64-bit matter to certain important apps 2008-2009, perhaps even 2007? Yes.

What apps are these that are going to suddenly need a change to 64-bit data types?

[SierraDragon]

Originally Posted by mduell

What apps are these that are going to suddenly need a change to 64-bit data types?

I don't know, but I am not talking about "sudden" I am talking about the life cycle of a new computer purchase. Since the 128k Macs apps and the OS have been evolving to take advantage of the latest architecture (Allen's Law ). Always. Since we buy for 2-5 years of future usage it has always been cost effective to pay a few extra bucks for the latest architecture when buying a new box.

-Allen Wicks

[freakboy2]

Originally Posted by SierraDragon

I don't know, but I am not talking about "sudden" I am talking about the life cycle of a new computer purchase. Since the 128k Macs apps and the OS have been evolving to take advantage of the latest architecture (Allen's Law ). Always. Since we buy for 2-5 years of future usage it has always been cost effective to pay a few extra bucks for the latest architecture when buying a new box.

-Allen Wicks

using that logic, the macbook is by far the best buy right now.. because you could buy another one in 2 years and have updated hardware.. for the cost of buying one macbookpro now.

5 years from now you'd have a 3 year old macbook or a 5 year old macbook pro.

(and you'd actually probably be able to afford 3 macbooks in that time with the money you saved.)

[RevEvs]

Well, loads of Merom PC Laptops came out today... lots and lots of them... so I think we may be close!

[ndptal85]

Doesn't everyone love how just about every computer manufacturer and their grandmother is coming out with Core 2 Duo laptops today while Apple drags its ass to increase its margins on their older Core Duo gear?

[azt33]

I have a feeling that we will see an upgrade tomorrow... But it's just a feeling, but it would be right on time for my birthday (30th of August ), since I am getting one for my birthday

[RevEvs]

Originally Posted by ndptal85

Doesn't everyone love how just about every computer manufacturer and their grandmother is coming out with Core 2 Duo laptops today while Apple drags its ass to increase its margins on their older Core Duo gear?

]Nte that they have announced them today - they arent shipping till the middle of September. So Apple could release theirs in 2 weeks and still be first out the gates with a shipping product.

They might release one tomorrow for all you know - Saying they are dragging their asses because they havent released an update with in a few hours of other companies is ridiculous. We will see when they all start shipping...

[silver]

Thats great news, hopefully soon Apple will update there MBP line as well. What do you folks think My MBP 17" is on the FedEx truck ready to be delivered, if Apple does decide to release the merom MBP's will Apple allow me to upgrade an unopened box? sorry if Im hijacking the thread.


silver

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by ndptal85

Doesn't everyone love how just about every computer manufacturer and their grandmother is coming out with Core 2 Duo laptops today while Apple drags its ass to increase its margins on their older Core Duo gear?

I like to think that they're holding off so they can get the new machines right, rather than just early. Let Lenovo get the early news-and the early problems too.

[SierraDragon]

Originally Posted by silver

...What do you folks think My MBP 17" is on the FedEx truck ready to be delivered, if Apple does decide to release the merom MBP's will Apple allow me to upgrade an unopened box?

Apple has a 14 day no-questions-asked return policy. Easiest is just not to open the box.

[freakboy2]

Originally Posted by SierraDragon

Apple has a 14 day no-questions-asked return policy. Easiest is just not to open the box.

do you think this is why they're delaying macbooks? To keep people from returning them when they come out with new ones?

[SierraDragon]

Originally Posted by freakboy2

using that logic, the macbook is by far the best buy right now.. because you could buy another one in 2 years and have updated hardware.. for the cost of buying one macbookpro now.

Sometimes that works. But even a short life cycle like 2 years is 2006 SEP thru 2008 SEP, and the boxes are not equal. Personally I prefer perpetually working on a pro (GPU, PC card slot, FW 800, screen real estate, pixel totals, client image) box every three years rather than a perpetually amateur box every two years.

[freakboy2]

SD,

i do as well, but on this cycle the mb and mbp are so close in specs.. if you don't need a video card, you're paying a big premium for a pro machine which is only marginally faster.

my guess is that a week from now this picture will be seriously changed with the MBP running meroms and the MB running core duo.

[mduell]

Originally Posted by ndptal85

Doesn't everyone love how just about every computer manufacturer and their grandmother is coming out with Core 2 Duo laptops today while Apple drags its ass to increase its margins on their older Core Duo gear?

Intel has yet to drop the prices on Core Duo... I think Apple is just holding back to confirm there aren't any problems. Plus the shipping dates aren't for a couple weeks so Apple could just announce the day they ship.

I'm going to smack the first, and every subsequent for that matter, person who posts a thread about "OMG!! dozens of flaws in the Core 2 Duo chips!! intelSUX back to IBM!!" because they don't understand what an errata list is for.

[freakboy2]

it is a little annoying that we all know the machines are coming but we can't order them.

at least with the powerpc, nobody really knew what the availability was. with the merom, we know dell will have a machine on sept 19th. where's my merom mac?

I really want to get a macbook right now, but crap!!! I can wait a few weeks to see if it gets updated.

[silver]

Thanks SD for answering my question. I know originally I didn't really care if it was merom or yonah but considering even a 20% boost would help me considering I do a lot of 3D(Come on Autodesk where's Maya UB) and not to mention texturing in Photoshop(same goes to you Adobe why must we wait till CS3 for UB versions).

I know I need my laptop to run some programs for ICS, so I'll probably just use it. But now with the switch to Intel and it's many updates(far more than IBM) it's just making things a bit more interesting to say the least.


silver

[Obi Wan's Ghost]

Round up of Core 2 Duos announced today .......

http://www.ipodhub.net/294/2006/8/28...arts-shipping/

Read the last paragraph

[justinkim]

Quote from linked article:

New Macs are already about to hit the assembly lines and updates to MacBooks, MacBook Pros, iMacs and Mac minis are imminent.

If they haven't already hit manufacturing, we'll have a bit of a wait until Apple builds up enough inventory to satisfy initial demand.

[freakboy2]

Originally Posted by justinkim

Quote from linked article:


If they haven't already hit manufacturing, we'll have a bit of a wait until Apple builds up enough inventory to satisfy initial demand.

supposedly the chips are drop in replacements.. so maybe it'll just swap over.

[Obi Wan's Ghost]

Originally Posted by freakboy2

supposedly the chips are drop in replacements.. so maybe it'll just swap over.

Apple could be upgrading more than just CPU.

[Simon]

Originally Posted by freakboy2

my guess is that a week from now this picture will be seriously changed with the MBP running meroms and the MB running core duo.

If the only change to the MBP is Merom, the difference between the MB and MBP will have not changed at all. At the same clock, Merom offers neither significant performance increase nor battery life reduction. This will only change when the Santa Rosa chipset with its 800MHz FSB arrives. That'll be next year btw.

If the gap between the MB and MBP should widen (which actually Apple doesn't want at all - as they've stated before, they see all Mac portables as one family), the MBP is going to need more than just Merom. New case, faster GPU, eSATA, higher resolution, etc. All things that are not very likely to happen.

[Obi Wan's Ghost]

All those companies who released updates this week put Meroms in their low ends too. Apple has to put Meroms in MBs an MBPs. Only the clockspeeds will be different and the graphics and usual stuff.

[mduell]

Originally Posted by Simon

If the only change to the MBP is Merom, the difference between the MB and MBP will have not changed at all. At the same clock, Merom offers neither significant performance increase nor battery life reduction. This will only change when the Santa Rosa chipset with its 800MHz FSB arrives. That'll be next year btw.

Some laptops are showing +25% (30 min) on battery life (link); despite the same TDP at full blast, Merom may be doing better with low-clock power management.

[wilsonng]

This should change Apple's release patterns. Previously, Apple used the PowerPC chip and could release updates on their own schedule.

Now that Apple has switched to Intel processors, whenever Intel releases a new chip like Merom and all the other companies are releasing Merom computers, Apple will probably have no choice but to release Meroms in their lineup, ranging from the Mac Minis, iMacs, to the MBs and MBPs. Apple will have to release Merom just to keep up with everyone else and not look like they're too slow in releasing up-to-the-date techno-gadgets.

[Simon]

Originally Posted by mduell

Some laptops are showing +25% (30 min) on battery life (link); despite the same TDP at full blast, Merom may be doing better with low-clock power management.

Quite a contradiction to recent AnandTech tests.





Although PCPer saw a large difference between the 'engineering sample' and the production Merom. I'm wondering what AnandTech tested. The nice thing is PCPer tested the T7600 (2.33 GHz) against the T2600 (2.16 GHz). So battery time per clock improvement might be even better. Maybe we're lucky and production Merom will indeed give significantly better battery time.

[houstonmacbro]

Originally Posted by shecky

i have the same machine, so i am ready also.

me too ... but i can't afford the mbp so will opt for a merom mb.

[houstonmacbro]

Originally Posted by wilsonng

This should change Apple's release patterns. Previously, Apple used the PowerPC chip and could release updates on their own schedule.

Now that Apple has switched to Intel processors, whenever Intel releases a new chip like Merom and all the other companies are releasing Merom computers, Apple will probably have no choice but to release Meroms in their lineup, ranging from the Mac Minis, iMacs, to the MBs and MBPs. Apple will have to release Merom just to keep up with everyone else and not look like they're too slow in releasing up-to-the-date techno-gadgets.

agreed. when you are the only game in town (ppc/apple) you could pretty much do what you wanted and when you want ... when you are now competing for direct benchmarks and product comparisons with dell, ibm, sony, you HAVE to release new/revised models when the only chipmaker (intel) makes their new chips available in quantity.

[houstonmacbro]

Originally Posted by Simon

If the only change to the MBP is Merom, the difference between the MB and MBP will have not changed at all. At the same clock, Merom offers neither significant performance increase nor battery life reduction. This will only change when the Santa Rosa chipset with its 800MHz FSB arrives. That'll be next year btw.

If the gap between the MB and MBP should widen (which actually Apple doesn't want at all - as they've stated before, they see all Mac portables as one family), the MBP is going to need more than just Merom. New case, faster GPU, eSATA, higher resolution, etc. All things that are not very likely to happen.

so merom is the test bed for santa rosa? is that what you're saying?

[Simon]

No.

Santa Rosa is the upcoming chipset. It will have (among other stuff) a faster FSB which will allow Merom to perform better. Currently, there are some tests where Merom is bottlenecked by the current 667 MHz FSB and therefore hardly performing any better than Yonah.

[fuzzball963]

Well I just ordered a MBP because I couldn't wait any longer and it has an estimated ship date of the 5th of Sept so hopefully something magic happens and I get a merom drop in chip .

[RevEvs]

Hmm well the 5th makes sense, as it 24hr shipping, and it wil probably beprocessed on monday, so 24hr = tuesday (the 5th).

As much as I want a MBP, im waiting, ive made it 3 months already. I dont want a computer thats been out 8 months, id rather wait.

[nikki-k]

Well, to those thinking Apple might be able to announce their Merom based line and still be out the door before the others who have already announced theirs...BZZT! Wrong.

Alienware has laptop/notebooks with Core 2 Duo's claiming a 7 day ship date...and that was yesterday, so that would mean if I ordered one yesterday, it would ship next Fri. Dell on the other hand, has their Core 2 Duo notebook/laptops showing a 5 day ship time, meaning I could possibly have one BY next Fri.

BTW- I am with many others, sitting here waiting, hoping the Merom will be in a MacBoo Pro very soon. My main curiosity lies in the thermal side actually. And I guess I am like others also, who just want a 64-bit chip cause...well, that's why! Just 'cause!

(ugh...heck of a first post...and another BTW- yes, I am yet another "convert" who made it over the wall from the MS side and did so with a Mac Pro over two weeks ago...very, very happy! )

[wilsonng]

IIRC Apple tried to use their Apple halo to get Core Duos before the other companies could. Intel didn't budge. Apple doesn't have that strong an influence to get Meroms before the other fellas can.

Besides, Dell would probably get 'em faster 'cuz they can sell more Meroms than Apple can.

[fuzzball963]

Well mine's still on order but my ship date for the MBP got pushed back from the fifth to the 7th . Expected delivery on the 14th. Here's hoping they're upgrading it somehow .

[houstonmacbro]

i'm hoping so too! please let us know once it arrives. i'm excited for you.

[skitzogreg]

Originally Posted by fuzzball963

Well mine's still on order but my ship date for the MBP got pushed back from the fifth to the 7th . Expected delivery on the 14th. Here's hoping they're upgrading it somehow .

In one day mine went from the ship date of the 1st to the 5th, then later that afternoon to shipping the 14th. Interesting.

[salaryman]

Anyone else noticed how MBP updates are mysteriously absent from all the rumours currently flying around?

AppleInsider | Apple to roll-out iTunes movies and 'one more thing'

I'd be gutted if they updated the iMacs with Core 2 Duo but not the MBP!

[justinkim]

Yes, I've noticed, too.

I'm currently in "not getting my hopes up" mode.

There's still a possibility that a (relatively) minor processor only upgrade is in the works and that it simply hasn't been getting the same attention as the more substantial rumored iMac and Nano upgrades.

Still in that mode, though

[shecky]

store is closed as of right now. (9:20AM EST)

lets see what happens....

[slugslugslug]

It's back, with no changes in MBPs. Also, nothing seems to be new on apple.com.

[RevJonn]

Hi There, Newbee from the Uk Here....
Just waiting on a 15" with 2gig thru an insurance claim
(To the F$*k who's got my 12"PB i hope ya rot in Hell...)
My Shipping date has been delayed from Tommorow to the 14th....

Here's hopin for the Merom, eh?

[Kenstee]

Don't wet your pants just yet. Merom ain't exactly what we've beeen expecting.

"Notebooks get only a small performance boost with Intel’s new processor, formerly code-named Merom, and battery life appears to remain about the same."

I won't even ask about the heat!!!

Macworld: First Look: PC World tests: Mobile Core 2 Duo okay, not great

This one is a real yawner. Certainly not worth the wait.

Not surprisingly this was formally announced today...

"Chip-maker Intel Corp. said Tuesday a total of 10,500 jobs will be eliminated over the next year through layoffs, attrition and the sale of underperforming business groups as part of a massive restructuring.

The Santa Clara-based company said most of the job cuts this year will come from the management, marketing and information technology ranks.

The world's largest chip maker is fighting to reverse sinking profits and regain market share stolen by smaller rival Advanced Micro Devices Inc.

The cuts come amid intense pressure for Intel to unload money-losing divisions and halt the encroachment of AMD on its lucrative core business making the microprocessors that act as the brains of computers.

Intel has been steadily losing profits and market share. Analysts have criticized Intel for being too bloated and having lost its focus on making the chips that power servers, desktop computers and laptops."

Makes one wonder about Apple's Intel selection doesn't it? Hope Steve hasn't lost AMD's phone number.

[justinkim]

Except, of course, that the current MBP's top out at 2.16GHz and the top end of the Core 2's are at 2.33GHz

Of course, the top end of the Core's are also at 2.33, but they're not available in MBP's now.

If you're looking to wring as much speed and life span out of your next purchase, it may not be a bad idea at all to wait for a bit, if only to see what sort of deal one can get on a current model when the new ones come out.

[SierraDragon]

Originally Posted by Simon

If the only change to the MBP is Merom, the difference between the MB and MBP will have not changed at all. At the same clock, Merom offers neither significant performance increase nor battery life reduction...

IMO for graphics users 2007+ the difference between MB and MBP is huge right now: ExpressCard/34 slot, real graphics card, bigger screens, more pixels, Firewire 800 (in the 17" so far)...

Merom MBPs may see some or all of: bigger and/or faster hard drives, more accessible RAM, FW800 in 15" MBPs, etc.

-Allen Wicks

[SierraDragon]

Originally Posted by Kenstee

Intel has been steadily losing profits and market share...
Makes one wonder about Apple's Intel selection doesn't it? Hope Steve hasn't lost AMD's phone number.

Actually most analysts consider Intel's current roadmap very solid, a step in the right direction. Tech sites generally opine that Intel has one upped AMD for a while with this current chip architecture.

As to Apple's decision, IMO it was very solid. And if Intel falters down the road (like I said above Intel is certainly ahead for now) of course AMD could be a future option.

-Allen Wicks

[mduell]

The performance depends on the apps and tasks that you test. H.264 performance is up 30% at the same clockrate in Anandtech's tests:


Other benchmarks are less than 5% faster. Battery life is flat, just like Intel said it would be.