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Geofries · Jan 15, 2009, 10:32 AM

Hopefully someone can help as I know nothing about computers on the inside.

I have an OG MB Core Duo.

Yesterday I turned it on like normal. After a few minutes it randomnly restarted.

Came up again. Within a minute it was displaying that message saying "you must restart computer now" etc.

I restart, and it hangs at the intial start up. It's like I can here it just spinning, like it's repeating the same spin but can't launch.

Eventually it launches. I notice that if I move the laptop, say from my lap to the table, it restarts or forces me to restart. Any motion and its restarting.

Way past warranty.

Does this sound like the hard drive?

I really need to know. Class starts monday, i have 5 classes, 3 online, and can't be without my laptop.

Also if it is the hard drive, how would I go about replacing it? I would need to copy the contents of my current hd. It still works, it's just REALLY testy and cant be moved while in use.

Thanks.

Simon · Jan 15, 2009, 11:11 AM

Run Apple Hardware Test (boot from the install DVD, hold d). See what type of error code it returns.

Also, use Disk Utility to check the SMART status of your HDD.

The CD MBs had problems with temperature sensors and heat management. Apple eventually released a firmware update that helped a lot of people. Did you install that update?

Spheric Harlot · 07:15 PM

Originally Posted by Geofries

I restart, and it hangs at the intial start up. It's like I can here it just spinning, like it's repeating the same spin but can't launch.

Eventually it launches. I notice that if I move the laptop, say from my lap to the table, it restarts or forces me to restart. Any motion and its restarting.

This is not a heat problem. It could be a faulty connection betwen the drive and the main logic board, or a faulty drive, or a fault on the logic board itself.

It is important that you NOT use the drive anymore except to try and recover any data not on your backups.

Hook up your MacBook in target disk mode, and good luck copying any data off that internal disk.

To replace it or check the cabling, start here: www.ifixit.com/Guide

Geofries · Jan 15, 2009, 12:56 PM

Target Disk Mode, does this involve connecting my MacBook to another Mac via wifi?

Also, assuming I replace the HD, is reinstalling OSX as simple as getting in the new HD and popping in the DVD?

Thanks for all help by the way. I'm at work right now so I cannot do the diagnostics yet but I want to have enough info to get right to work on it when I get home.

Simon · Jan 15, 2009, 03:00 PM

Originally Posted by Geofries

Target Disk Mode, does this involve connecting my MacBook to another Mac via wifi?

You connect two Macs through FireWire. Then you boot one up in TDM which means it will then act like an external FW drive.

Also, assuming I replace the HD, is reinstalling OSX as simple as getting in the new HD and popping in the DVD?

Pretty much. You have the option to restore from a backup. And you can chose what shall be restored (apps, documents, prefs, network settings, etc.).

Geofries · Jan 15, 2009, 03:10 PM

Originally Posted by Simon

You connect two Macs through FireWire. Then you boot one up in TDM which means it will then act like an external FW drive.

Pretty much. You have the option to restore from a backup. And you can chose what shall be restored (apps, documents, prefs, network settings, etc.).

Ok. So I need to get a FireWire cable, along with a new HD.

I am going to look into whether it would be cheaper to get a FireWire cable or an external inclosure for when I pop out the old drive.

I appreciate all the information.

Simon · Jan 15, 2009, 03:36 PM

Before you buy anything, you should do basic diagnostics.

Geofries · Jan 15, 2009, 04:11 PM

Originally Posted by Simon

Before you buy anything, you should do basic diagnostics.

Agreed. I shall.

Geofries · Jan 15, 2009, 08:26 PM

Now with dvd in I can't even get it to boot up. I turn it on, hear the dvd drive spin, however the screen stays black and snoring light is constantly on.

Simon · Jan 16, 2009, 03:57 AM

Do you have an external display? Try booting it in closed-lid mode.

Geofries · Jan 16, 2009, 08:36 AM

Well I can probably get a cable and connect it to my tv.

Its weird though. You know the normal sound that plays when you boot up, well I'm not hearing that anymore.

The only way I can describe it is that it seems as if the computer was asleep all along (tho not the case) and by hitting the power button I'm just waking it up, although with no display.

Geofries · Jan 16, 2009, 08:39 AM

I'm going to take a trip to the Apple Store tomorrow and gander at the new MB's. I was also checking out the refurbs. They have a Black MB for 1k. Not sure if it's work 1k at this point though.

Really sucks this happened right before school. I SHOULD just get a cheap vista lap top, but for the love of all things holy I cannot see myself being happy at all under anything other than OSX.

Simon · Jan 16, 2009, 12:06 PM

No boot sound?

Are you sure you're actually rebooting it? It's not sleeping? Have you tried removing power and battery and doing an SMC reset?

Geofries · Jan 16, 2009, 02:08 PM

Originally Posted by Simon

No boot sound?

Are you sure you're actually rebooting it? It's not sleeping? Have you tried removing power and battery and doing an SMC reset?

Definitely not sleeping. I've removed the battery and everything. I don't know what an SMC reset is though, but I can assure the laptop is not sleeping prior to me trying to start it up.

I know, it all sounds crazy to me too.

Simon · Jan 16, 2009, 02:29 PM

How to reset the SMC

Geofries · Jan 16, 2009, 11:57 PM

Following the MB steps didn't work. I did the MBA steps and it booted. In test mode, it finds no problems.

There is though. While in test mode I moved the computer from my lap and sat it gently on floor. This little movement locked up the computer forcing me to restart.

Simon · Jan 17, 2009, 04:41 AM

So what did AHT say? And what's your SMART status?

Geofries · Jan 17, 2009, 06:18 PM

The AHT said everything was fine. Can't get smart status now because it's back to pretending like its sleep when I try to boot.

seanc · Jan 17, 2009, 06:20 PM

Sounds like a hard drive or logic board failure to me.
Since hard drives are cheap and it's more likely to have failed - try replacing it first.

If it turns out it isn't the issue, you've just got yourself a nice backup drive.

Geofries · Jan 17, 2009, 06:37 PM

Question though: assuming the HD is bad, shouldn't the computer boot up just fine from the dvd though?

The dvd is in the drive and I still can't get it to boot up.

Or does it not work like that?

seanc · Jan 17, 2009, 06:48 PM

The laptop should still boot even if the hdd is dead - unless it's causing the initial power on self tests to hang. An easy test is to take it out.
Unscrew the metal shield in the battery bay and lift it out.
You'll see a silver hdd caddy and white pull tab - gently pull it out.
Make a note of which way out you took it - it MUST go back in this way. If you put it back in upside down, you'll break the sleep light and IR sensor.

In case it hasn't been said, your number one priority before any of this should be backups unless you've done them.

Geofries · Jan 17, 2009, 07:24 PM

Took out the HD and it still refuses to totally boot.

Good thing is that lets me know it's not the HD.

I'm just gonna suck it up and get a MBP tomorrow, and an enclosure for my current HD to copy my data. Am I looking for a particular type of enclosure?

seanc · Jan 17, 2009, 07:33 PM

How did you get the machine to power up before? SMC reset? Try it again and see what happens.

Geofries · Jan 17, 2009, 07:52 PM

Originally Posted by seanc

How did you get the machine to power up before? SMC reset? Try it again and see what happens.

I have. Several times. No avail.

seanc · Jan 17, 2009, 07:58 PM

Sounds dead... one last thing - re-seat the ram/remove 1 stick at a time to see what happens.

Geofries · Jan 17, 2009, 08:11 PM

And removing ram yields the same results.

Now comes the fun part of deciding MB or MBP. I definitely don't need the MBP but games never hurt anyone.

bmn · 03:38 AM

Worse case scenario, you can send it in for repair through the mail-in service for about $300. Assuming no damage to the machine.

Best case scenario, it's the hard drive, and if it's the early '06 model, it might even be covered even though it's no longer in warranty. That's right. It could be free.

One more time: Try booting holding down the option key with install disc 1 in the drive with the internal HD removed.

You should take it in to the Apple Store and have the Genius Bar take a look at it. If anything, and you're buying a machine, you could STILL sell this one probably for MORE than the $300 you would spend to fix it.

Simon · 06:02 AM

Originally Posted by seanc

Make a note of which way out you took it - it MUST go back in this way. If you put it back in upside down, you'll break the sleep light and IR sensor.

Also, slide it in and out carefully.

There's a rubber lining glued to the front of the case that the HDD slides in and out of. On the very first CD MBs Apple used two tiny drops of some cheap hot glue to stick that rubber lining to the case. As the MB gets older that glue becomes brittle. If you tear the disk out you could end up ripping the rubber off the case. To make matters worse you might not notice that it happened and when you put the disk back in you'll be crushing the rubber lining against the SAA and power ports. The disk won't go in and you'll have a hell of a time finding a pair of long and thin tweezers to get that rubber lining out of there.

So to make it short, don't yank the disk out or shove it in forcefully. Slide it carefully.

Geofries · Jan 18, 2009, 09:48 AM

Again, all the information is appreciated.

bmn, I tried again with the HD removed, and still no luck. Doesn't this pretty much clear me of hard drive failure? How would it potentially be fixed for free? (though I'm not at all banking on it) I assume the 06 models had HD problems? It is an early 06 model.

Also, how would I go about selling this one? Guess I'm just having a hard time imagining who would buy a broken laptop.

So it appears that I should take this one in today, let a genius look at it, then make my purchasing decision from there. I don't think I'm willing to really put any money into fixing this machine.

Unfortunately I have to admit that I in general did not take care of properly, which won't be happening again.

My last question, could you guys read my other post and give me your thoughts on which new system to get? I would REALLY appreciate it as I plan on dropping into the apple store this evening.

Simon · Jan 18, 2009, 10:09 AM

Originally Posted by Geofries

I'm just gonna suck it up and get a MBP tomorrow, and an enclosure for my current HD to copy my data. Am I looking for a particular type of enclosure?

If I were you I'd get a HDD docking station rather than a simple enclosure. These docking stations are cheap, take both 2.5" and 3.5" drives, offer USB and eSATA ports, plus some offer additional stuff like extra USB ports, card readers, etc.

I just bought one recently and I'm very pleased. It's much easier to insert/remove disks and it offers a lot more flexibility. And as you'd expect performance over eSATA is very good. Much better than what you'd see from an external USB or FW drive.

Here's an example

seanc · 08:17 PM

Originally Posted by bmn

Best case scenario, it's the hard drive, and if it's the early '06 model, it might even be covered even though it's no longer in warranty. That's right. It could be free.

bmn is referring to the 80GB Seagate drives that originally shipped in MacBooks - they have an issue where the heads will cause damage to the platters, rendering them unusable and data lost.

I'm not a great fan of Seagate now, especially considering the 7200.11 saga.

Cold Warrior · Jan 18, 2009, 02:18 PM

Originally Posted by Simon

If I were you I'd get a HDD docking station rather than a simple enclosure. These docking stations are cheap, take both 2.5" and 3.5" drives, offer USB and eSATA ports, plus some offer additional stuff like extra USB ports, card readers, etc.

I just bought one recently and I'm very pleased. It's much easier to insert/remove disks and it offers a lot more flexibility. And as you'd expect performance over eSATA is very good. Much better than what you'd see from an external USB or FW drive.

Here's an example

Thanks for the link. This would solve a dilemma for me: desktop storage that is adaptable to capacity growth.

But what's up with the 1TB limit on the HDD docking station?

Simon · Jan 18, 2009, 03:36 PM

Originally Posted by Cold Warrior

Thanks for the link. This would solve a dilemma for me: desktop storage that is adaptable to capacity growth.

It's a great way to stay flexible. If you need more space or another drive, you just swap. It takes 5 seconds and it's really simple. And don't get me started on how wonderful it is to diagnose and repair notebook drives with the same "case" you use for your other desktop drives.

But what's up with the 1TB limit on the HDD docking station?

It's about power. IIRC Seagate's 1.5TB drives draw more power at spin up than the older power supplies delivered. If you get a newer docking station (or replace its PS with a beefier one) any SATA disk will work.

Geofries · Jan 18, 2009, 08:31 PM

Originally Posted by seanc

Sounds dead... one last thing - re-seat the ram/remove 1 stick at a time to see what happens.

I did not fully read this. Removing one stick at a time solved the problem. Apparently I had a bad stick.

So I'm down to 1 gig now, still with 2k in pocket, and a MB that's back to working.

Thank you guys!

seanc · Jan 18, 2009, 08:47 PM

Glad you're back up and running. RAM is cheap

amazing · Jan 19, 2009, 02:31 AM

and thanks again for reporting back!

many of these threads end without resolution and it's very hard to generate enthusiasm in suggesting possible solutions if you never hear back on what actually worked!

MacNNUK · Jan 19, 2009, 03:48 AM

Originally Posted by Geofries

I did not fully read this. Removing one stick at a time solved the problem. Apparently I had a bad stick.

So I'm down to 1 gig now, still with 2k in pocket, and a MB that's back to working.

Thank you guys!

I had a similar problem a few days after upgrading my iMac memory, it was a vertical memory pcb having slipped down a little, been ok since I re-inserted till clicked.

Simon · Jan 19, 2009, 07:23 AM

Originally Posted by Geofries

I did not fully read this. Removing one stick at a time solved the problem. Apparently I had a bad stick.

Good to know. Thanks for reporting.

It's a real shame AHT didn't catch it though. It should have. Did you run the extended memory test when you ran AHT?

Geofries · Jan 19, 2009, 10:12 AM

Originally Posted by Simon

Good to know. Thanks for reporting.

It's a real shame AHT didn't catch it though. It should have. Did you run the extended memory test when you ran AHT?

Yep. I'm just glad it's resolved now. I was looking forward to a new mac, but oh well.