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mayoke · Dec 12, 2007, 09:35 PM

Just speculating here, but IF the new subnotebook is introduced as the smallest of the MBP line, and considering it is rumored to look quite different from current mac books/mbps... is it likely we'll see a re-design of the pro series to have uniformity across the 3 'sizes'?

Cold Warrior · Dec 12, 2007, 09:38 PM

what do you mean by uniformity? The case design?

imitchellg5 · Dec 12, 2007, 10:09 PM

I would say that no matter what, they would keep the Pro look consistent.

mayoke · Dec 13, 2007, 12:14 AM

what i mean is that there is an ultraportable being rumored to exist that looks different than the current mbp line with respect to the case etc... if this subnotebook is going to be a member of the Pro laptops, does that mean the 15 and 17 inch models might see some aesthetic changes? (in order to keep the pro look consistent)

Simon · Dec 13, 2007, 04:19 AM

I wouldn't be surprised if they gave it a new name that's neither MB or MBP. Maybe something like MacBook Lite. Calling it "Pro" would not be appropriate (GMA X3100, ULV C2D, etc.), but calling it just MB would not do it justice either and certainly confuse buyers (why is the smallest MB $600 more expensive than the others?).

And if it's neither MB nor MBP they're free to introduce yet another case design. I'm guessing it will be Al and resemble rather the MBP than the MB though.

slugslugslug · Dec 13, 2007, 03:29 PM

I know I pop up to say this every time the subject comes up, but I still think "MacBook mini" is the most likely name. "nano" is plausible if it's really tiny, i.e. not the slim 13.3" that AppleInsider keeps talking about. "Lite", even if spelled "Light", is just too reminiscent of food/beverage marketing.

I still keep wondering about this outside possibility of something way smaller than a MacBook, running a variant of OS X with multitouch (i.e. "not-Mac" OS X, or iPhone OS). I wouldn't think much of it, but John Gruber at Daring Fireball said he had a strong hunch about it a few months back. Then this week he linked to that Apple Jobs posting about multitouch developers, and, well, linking to job postings doesn't really seem his style. I think, despite his ragging on the Mac rumor web, Gruber has sources at Apple and can't help dropping hints.

On the other hand, does Apple really want to look like they're trying to put out a Foleo?..

Anyway, I ramble. I hope, if a tiny MacBook comes out, it's similar to the current MacBooks or available in black aluminum. Then I hope I can convince my parents to buy my new MacBook from me.

imitchellg5 · Dec 13, 2007, 11:37 PM

Originally Posted by slugslugslug

On the other hand, does Apple really want to look like they're trying to put out a Foleo?..

Yes. I think Apple enjoys taking a concept that has never been well executed and turning it into something that actually works well and looks good. They did it with the smartphone (iPhone) and digital media players (iPod), and computers (iMac).

slugslugslug · Dec 14, 2007, 12:15 AM

Originally Posted by imitchellg5

Yes. I think Apple enjoys taking a concept that has never been well executed and turning it into something that actually works well and looks good. They did it with the smartphone (iPhone) and digital media players (iPod), and computers (iMac).

I almost added something to that effect, but I'd been rambling too long.

Also, if Apple came out with something Foleo-sized, they wouldn't be so stupid as to say its main role was a companion for phones. But something that size, marketed towards folks who already have a computer and just want some of their data with a full keyboard, that makes some sense.

Cadaver · Dec 15, 2007, 04:45 PM

I think it might simply be called the 13" MacBook Pro (akin to the 12" PowerBook vs. 12" iBook).

Simon · Dec 16, 2007, 04:54 AM

Which would then start off the same discussions we had back then! Why a GMA X3100 in a MBP? Why is this $1599 MBP slower than the $999 MB? ...

No, I seriously hope they don't call it the 13" MacBook Pro.

mduell · Dec 16, 2007, 10:06 AM

I'm thinking Macbook mini/nano/light/thin/whatever, to avoid comparisons with the MB/MBP.

I'm more interested in where Apple will target rather than what they're going to call it. Are they going to come in under a grand and compete with the Asus Eee or over two grand and compete with the Dell/Panasonic/Sony ultralights?

iREZ · Dec 16, 2007, 12:45 PM

we're talking bout apple here, i'm guessing they're targeting dell/panasonic/sony with whatever they're gonna release.

Simon · Dec 16, 2007, 03:10 PM

I'm certain it will cost no less than $1599. And yet I'd expect something along the lines of ULV C2D, X3100, etc.

Cadaver · Dec 17, 2007, 12:19 AM

Originally Posted by Simon

I'm certain it will cost no less than $1599. And yet I'd expect something along the lines of ULV C2D, X3100, etc.

And yet, as with so many things Apple, it'll be close, but not exactly what I want. Basically, and I'm probably in the minority (which explains why it'll never materialize), what I want is a Mac just like the Sony Vaio TZ series. A Sony TZ that runs MacOS X. Unfortunately, I suspect such a machine will never exist. And while I've thought about trying to hack in OS X on to the Sony, I'm not quite ready to drop $3000 on "try." I'm also not quite ready to completely give up on MacOS X just for the tiny machine. I like having many different tools in the toolbox. Sometimes the tool is Windows. Sometimes its MacOS X. But I like the choice. I'm afraid trying to hack OS X in to what my ideal laptop is could be an expensive experiment.

Simon · Dec 17, 2007, 06:40 AM

Personally I'd prefer a real professional MBP nano with a fast Penryn, dedicated GPU and enough RAM. Basically a 15" MBP with an 11" 1280x800 screen and no internal optical. I'd be ready to sacrifice battery life for performance. And yes, I'd pay $2499 for such a Mac. That said, I know that IS NOT what a majority of people want. And I also know that Apple won't make such a Mac: too hot and too expensive.

But OTOH I'm not at all convinced there are that many people that want slow in a small but expensive form factor. Of course we all think a 12" MB mini for $1599 sounds nice, but who will actually pay for such a Mac when it performs substantially worse than a cheap 'regular' MB? I remember very well how back in the day many loved the 12" PB's form factor but never bought one because for that kind of money they didn't want iBook performance. And now, we're not even talking MB performance - an ULV C2D will perform a whole lot worse than the 2.2 GHz C2D in the MB.

I always had this impression Apple canned the 12" PB because they just couldn't find a market between the expensive/small and the cheap/fast crowds. The rumors have certainly increased, but I'm still not totally convinced it will happen. It might well be though and I'll be really anxious to see if Apple choses to cater to the MB lite or the MBP nano folks. In any event, I expect to see a lot of thrilled and disappointed people no matter what they do.

mfbernstein · Dec 17, 2007, 10:13 AM

Knowing Apple, I'm sure they'll figure out a way to compromise function over form. Probably integrated graphics or a ULV C2D so they can shave an additional 1/8" off thickness.

The best way for Apple to make a slim light MBP with pro features, so folks can have their cake and eat it too, would be by introducing a docking station. Then you can have your optical drive, expansion bays, extra ports, maybe even a discrete graphics card, and so forth, and an uberthin notebook that gets decent battery life. Not rocket science.

However, it looks more likely that we'll simply get a warmed over MB in a thinner metal case, possibly with a built-in SSD. Apple never was keen on expansion with their portables.

SEkker · Dec 17, 2007, 03:36 PM

I think the big issue is whether this is 'just' an ultraportable or whether it has a full multi-touch screen. If it's the latter, then it might not even look like a MBP line but could still run $2k - and people would like up to buy it.

Imagine a large, 13" iPod Touch running Leopard. Near instant on-off. Connects to the iPhone via a better integrated form of Leopard (Like found in the last beta for Leopard with to do and notes sync). Also overlaps with the tablet PC concept. That is something I might buy.

A slightly lighter Macbook with an external optical drive and, gasp!, a 13" LED-backlit screen? Even with flash storage, will this really be all that much different than the current lineup?

What Apple has done is get people excited - in advance - over a new product. We'll see.

mduell · Dec 17, 2007, 07:59 PM

If it's under the Pro brand, perhaps the 1.8Ghz C2D LV part and 8400M graphics.

Simon · Dec 18, 2007, 04:28 AM

Originally Posted by SEkker

A slightly lighter Macbook with an external optical drive and, gasp!, a 13" LED-backlit screen? Even with flash storage, will this really be all that much different than the current lineup?

My thoughts as well. Shaving a pound of weight and a quarter inch thickness off the MB by not including the optical, using slower CPUs, and then selling the thing for lets say $1599 - how many people really want that?

I'm not too much in favor of your multi-touch MB lite idea, but I agree 100% that for the product to be really exciting it needs more than just the above.

abo · Dec 22, 2007, 03:19 AM

I think it will be a tablet computer. An iphone-screen of about the size of a standard sheet of paper, with the keyboard appearing on the screen when needed. So I think whether it is "pro" or not is moot.

Cadaver · Dec 23, 2007, 03:00 PM

Originally Posted by abo

I think it will be a tablet computer. An iphone-screen of about the size of a standard sheet of paper, with the keyboard appearing on the screen when needed. So I think whether it is "pro" or not is moot.

Nope. I disagree with this prediction. While I'm sure Apple's looking for a way to combine their multitouch technology into a Mac, it'll never happen at this early stage.

My prediction: it'll be a metal-cased machine with a 13" LED lit display in a thinner MacBook-style enclosure sans internal optical. Probably low-end discrete graphics versus the integrated X3100 the current MacBooks have. Not sure about the 45nm chips, but I don't think it'll be a ULV version either. Probably standard old Merom C2D at ~2GHz. Cheap and easy for Apple to implement.

I might buy such a machine, but it would need to be either really light or really thin to make me consider it over a (no doubt) much cheaper regular MacBook. I have a 15" MBP which is a bit too big for what I want, and my 1.33GHz 12" PowerBook G4 of course can't run Windows natively when I need it to.

...still lusting after a Sony Vaio TZ series machine.

mduell · Dec 23, 2007, 04:17 PM

New Asus U2 has a 11" widescreen LED backlit display with a decent resolution... could use the same panel.

Simon · 04:39 AM

Originally Posted by Cadaver

My prediction: it'll be a metal-cased machine with a 13" LED lit display in a thinner MacBook-style enclosure sans internal optical. Probably low-end discrete graphics versus the integrated X3100 the current MacBooks have. Not sure about the 45nm chips, but I don't think it'll be a ULV version either. Probably standard old Merom C2D at ~2GHz. Cheap and easy for Apple to implement.

Personally I like that idea.

But discrete graphics and regular Merom sound like a lot of power. And a lot of power sounds like and big and heavy battery. Especially if Apple actually goes with expensive SSD over a cheap HDD to save a couple of watts I'd be surprised to see them 'waste' that amount of power on GPU or CPU.

And yes, ULV Penryn is not ready for show time yet. ULV Merom is. It's expensive and slow.