[TheKLF99]

Hi,

I'm so over the moon at the moment, one of my friends who I've repaired his PC for for years give me an Apple iMac.

I'm so excited as for years I had the ZX Spectrum, then went to the CBM Amiga and then I made one fatal mistake - I bought a PC (omg how could I have been so stupid??? - I think it was mainly a combination of costs and upgradability that forced this decision, and that everyone else had a PC at the time, including the college and Uni I was studying at).

Anyway I've stuck with my PC for many years now, always thinking about getting an Apple Mac but been put off due to a number of reasons - such as cost of buying new software, (most of my PC software is GPL I don't know whether this exists or not on Mac), the general cost of Apple Macs, and also fear of the MacOS OS - I can handle other OS's like Linux, Windows and Workbench just fine but I've only ever seen MacOS once for about 5 minutes.)

Finally anyway I've got this chance to have an Apple Mac, and even better it turns out it's a G3 (when he told me he was giving me an Apple Mac I was thinking it would be something like an old 68060 or something).

The only major problem I've got though is that at present I've got a 20" CRT monitor on my computer desk, which has an PC plugged into it, and the iMac comes with it's own CRT monitor. I really doubt that this desk would hold both PC and iMac and have space for the other stuff on my desk (I have ADHD and so my desk is constantly a mess).

I know a lot about PC's and how to take them to pieces and rebuild them (I've rebuilt mine and my sisters and my 2 friends time and time again for them).

Is it possible to put the iMac into a tower, and is it as easy as transferring a PC from one tower to another - this was another thing that's put me off Macs for years the upgradability of them, a lot of people told me that Macs are like laptops and Amigas, once their built that is the spec of them and there is no way to upgrade them, where as with PC you buy a tower, stick some bits in it, anything fails or goes out of date you replace that one piece, not the whole unit.

If it is possible is there any bits that I have to watch out for, I know my dad is a TV engineer and he warned me that in CRT TV's the tube is constantly live even when unplugged due to the capacitors charge, I presume this is the same with the iMac.

Also can you add extra bits to the iMac, one of the main things I'd like to add is a Wi-Fi card, as we have Wi-Fi internet through the house. Is Airport the Mac equivalent of Wi-Fi and can Airport cards connect to Wi-Fi 802.11G devices.

Ok thanks for taking the time to read this, and hopefully I can get some answers to these questions.

[mduell]

No.

[Big Mac]

It's not possible to convert an iMac to a tower case. If you want a (somewhat) cheap Mac in a tower case you can go on eBay and find a G4 or a G5.

[Doc HM]

You can make the iMac wireless though. The G3 iMac only accepts the original airoprt cards NOT the current airport extreme so while it will connect to your g network it will bring the whole house down to b speeds, so you might not want to do this.

You could run a separate b network for the iMac and connect between the two wireless routers via ethernet.

Slap loads of RAM (1GB) in the iMac and it wil run 10.4.11 reasonably happily.

[seanc]

Actually, it IS possible to convert an iMac G3 to live in a PC tower - it's time consuming and involves a lot of knowledge of electronics though. You're still limited on expansion, but it means you can hide it under the desk. There's lots of tutorials if you do a quick Google.

[P]

Originally Posted by Doc HM 

You could run a separate b network for the iMac and connect between the two wireless routers via ethernet.

Or use a standard USB WiFi adapter. Some of them have OS X drivers. Since it's USB 1.1, it won't be fast, but everything else will still be running at G speeds.

Is it possible to put the iMac into a tower, and is it as easy as transferring a PC from one tower to another

Possible, yes. Easy, no. The big deal is that there is no separate ATX-standard PSU. This means you have to do the wiring from a standard PSU to the motherboard yourself, and that isn't fun. Depending on the exact model, the rest is usually simple.

[steve626]

If it's just space on your desk you want to conserve, depending on the iMac model, some of them have a video out capability which allows you to mirror what is on the display onto another display. So you could just stash the iMac under the desk and run a video cable up to your present monitor (or put in a switch to switch between the PC and iMac). But it seems a bit convoluted, plus you'd need to set up a keyboard and mouse somehow ...

[TheKLF99]

Ok thanks for all the replies. I've managed to get hold of a cheap PowerMac G4 500Mhz on eBay now with 200Mb RAM and 20Gb HDD. At present the iMac is running Mac OS X 10.1.3 in the advert on eBay it didn't state which Mac OS this PowerMac will be running, what MacOS will a G4 be running, I presume at least MacOS X? Also I presume I can easily add more memory to it? If it's not running Mac OS X will I be able to transfer Mac OS X from the iMac to the PowerMac

[Big Mac]

It came with OS 9 so it could still be running that if it never got upgraded. It can run up to OS X 10.4 Tiger.

[P]

Originally Posted by TheKLF99 

Ok thanks for all the replies. I've managed to get hold of a cheap PowerMac G4 500Mhz on eBay now with 200Mb RAM and 20Gb HDD. At present the iMac is running Mac OS X 10.1.3 in the advert on eBay it didn't state which Mac OS this PowerMac will be running, what MacOS will a G4 be running, I presume at least MacOS X? Also I presume I can easily add more memory to it? If it's not running Mac OS X will I be able to transfer Mac OS X from the iMac to the PowerMac

With 200 MB RAM (192, I guess) it's unlikely to be running OS X. It's easy to upgrade RAM though - standard SDRAM PC100 or better, which can still be found at retailers even if it's not that common anymore. Depending on the exact model of the iMac, you may also be able to steal some from that one.

You cannot easily transfer OS X from one Mac to another, and anyway 10.1.3 is not an OS you'd want to run. 10.3 or (if you upgrade the RAM to more than 512 MB) 10.4 is what you want.

[TheKLF99]

I got the PowerMac today, it turns out it's actually got 256Mb of RAM and 30Gb HDD (thought 200Mb RAM was a bit strange for a computer, as normally memory goes up in binary - 1,2,4,8,16,32,64,etc)

Also as for the OS it doesn't appear to have any OS installed on it, when I turn it on it just comes up with the Mac symbol (the face logo) flashing to a ? and then back to the Mac symbol. I presume this means the OS was wiped. It is graphical when showing the Mac OS symbol, is the Mac like the old Amiga's for that, where it has some kind of GUI instead of the awful POST screen that is seen on PC's?

Is the memory in a Mac exactly the same as PC memory as I've got quite a bit of spare memory lying around for PC's here, or does it have to be specifically for Mac?

[P]

That symbol comes from Open Firmware (fills the spot that the BIOS does on a PC), and even my home-built PC has a BIOS that can display a logo and some basic info without an OS these days. Yes, the drive was wiped, you need an OS. For 10.3 or 10.4, you need at least 512 MB of RAM, and the more the better.

Memory type is SDRAM PC100 (PC133 will work), which was the most common PC RAM at the time when the machine was made. If you have old chips lying around, they should work. Those older Macs tend to be a little picky about what RAM they accept*, but you can test what you have. A checkerboard pattern on the screen or 4 tones at startup instead of 1 indicate bad RAM.

* Specifically, they require that the CAS timings are defined for the exact speed it will be using - as JEDEC specifies that they should be. Some cut-rate manufacturers ignore this rule and only specify the timings for the highest rated speed, indicating that the same timings can be used for all slower speeds as well, and this is when older Macs tend to choke on them.

[Big Mac]

The missing OS icon may also signify a missing or damaged hard drive.

[idykenano]

If you're still up for taking the iMac apart, you could remove its hard drive and pop it into the G4 tower. The hard drive in the G4 tower would still be useful in slave mode for extra storage.

[TheKLF99]

Originally Posted by P 

even my home-built PC has a BIOS that can display a logo and some basic info without an OS these days.

Yes I noticed recent PC's have started to display the motherboard makers graphical logo (mine display Gigabyte Safe & Sound at the beginning), but I was more on about the fact it's an actual GUI and when it can't find the OS instead of the standard PC message of "Operating system not found" or something there is actually a little graphic display there kind of guiding me to what is wrong (it looks so much more professional, instead of a PC looking like it's hanging together with string and sticky tape!).

I actually think that's quite clever because no matter whether you speak English or not you know straight away roughly what is wrong.

Also today I opened the Mac up to have a look inside to see the memory and everything, it's got 2 x 64Mb and 1 x 128Mb in there. I was so surprised though how easy it is to open a Mac! Wow! I wish PC's were that easy! (I know screwless PC cases exist, but even them are nowhere near as easy to get to all the components as the Mac!)

Now I can see why Macs are always more higher priced than PC's! I also found the memory in the iMac (again wow - I thought it would be so much more harder to get to the memory in the iMac with the TV in the way, but the trapdoor slot in the bottom is such a cool idea (I remember my CBM Amiga having a similar "trapdoor" in the bottom (to which I installed 1Mb of extra memory - omg 3Mb of memory was so much then and now 512Mb is so small!, although it's even more funny when you think back to Microsoft's famous phrase that has dogged PC's for years "640K is more than enough memory" LOL!))).

Also I think the person who told me Mac's are so much harder to upgrade lied to me, these look so much easier inside to upgrade. Do them PCI slots take any PCI card or is it Mac only ones? Can I use a standard PCI Wi-Fi card in there? Could I upgrade the graphics card with any AGP graphics card (I notice it's an ATI Rage 128, I've got a few ATI Radeon's lying around AGP 8X from PC's would they work in it? or am I best leaving that stuff alone?)

Is PC and Mac hardware exactly the same, or is it totally different?

[Salty]

You've got a PPC Mac, so the hardware isn't the same, though they've since moved onto intel processors so a lot more of the hardware is the same now.

[P]

Originally Posted by TheKLF99 

Also I think the person who told me Mac's are so much harder to upgrade lied to me, these look so much easier inside to upgrade.

That statement should be taken to mean "iMacs and Mac minis" in comparison to regular PC desktops. Excluding the access port for the RAM, they ARE hard to get in to.

Originally Posted by TheKLF99 

Do them PCI slots take any PCI card or is it Mac only ones? Can I use a standard PCI Wi-Fi card in there?

You can if you have a driver for it. That's usually the limitation - that the manufacturer hasn't made a driver available. One that has is one called Ralink - cards that use their chipset are listed here. You can then get a driver for it here.

Originally Posted by TheKLF99 

Could I upgrade the graphics card with any AGP graphics card (I notice it's an ATI Rage 128, I've got a few ATI Radeon's lying around AGP 8X from PC's would they work in it? or am I best leaving that stuff alone?)

Is PC and Mac hardware exactly the same, or is it totally different?

The hardware is the same, but you need drivers. Apple supplies some, for the cards that they ship in Macs. For GPUs, you also need the BIOS on the card to support Mac booting (Open Firmware). Some cards can be reflashed to a Mac BIOS if you have access to a PC to do the job from, but I know very little about that. Google it or hope that someone else jumps into the thread with a nice howto.