[Troll]

I remember laughing so hard I nearly cried when I heard this one for the first time.

Zimphire
I am not sure what my stance is on oral sex.
Zigzag
Just relax, and any stance will do. Sitting is also fine, especially if you like to catch up on your reading.

Zimphire
You know, some people STILL think having sex before marriage is, get this, immoral.
Zigzag
That's nothing - for most men, the challenge is having sex after marriage.

Zimphire
It's pretty obvious that the penis is not meant for the vagina.
Zigzag
But, in a pinch, it serves as an an excellent paper-towel holder.

This comes from the sodomy thread which was in parts rather a serious discussion.

Zigzag
Doesn't this belong in the Peripherals forum?
Troll
Oh my! I don't think my sides have even been more at risk of splitting as a result of my MacNN perusals than they are from this thread!

And that's equally true when I read that thread today. What a loss.

I just want everyone to know that I have enjoyed every one of the conversations I've had on these fora. No need to do anything like a group hug, but Kevin and Simon and Crash and the rest of you that I have disagreed with at time, it's all fun right.

[Ω]

Your posts have made us richer, your departure, poorer.

We miss you, zig.

[Simon X]

Damn, this is sad news. Zigzag was the only board member I ever had a proper conversation with outside the confines of this forum. Got chatting from time to time when he first posted something about London architecture a few years back - the architecture of the London Underground I seem to remember, which happens to be one of my specialist subjects. Also chatted about building in London he once saw and admired and which I sent him some photos of it when I next went past. (Mary Ward Hall in-between Euston and Russell Square)

Damn, it was only a few months ago when we spoke again about web design apps for the work he was doing for the Henry Ford Museum.

Always found his posts to be refreshingly sensible and or funny - if I was skimming through a thread I would always stop when I saw his Battersea Power Station sig to read what he had to say.

scottiB if you can please pass on my condolences to his family.

[BRussell]

Ugh. This brought tears to my eyes. Someone earlier mentioned that something like this makes you realize there are human beings on the other side of these words. It does, especially someone like zigzag. What a great guy. Definitely one of the best posters here. He had clear opinions, but he always tried to add some humor and a recognition of the legitimacy of the other sides' opinions. I want his legacy for me to be that I remember him and try to act a bit more like him on the internet.

[spauldingg]

Severely bummed. Death sucks scissors.

[Xeo]

My condolences. I can't say I knew him, but I did enjoy what he had to say. I agreed with most of what he said and he was funny. What more could you ask for? As for donating, since the $50 mark may be high for many people, perhaps using PayPal to donate to ScottiB and assuming the number goes above the minimum $50, the whole amount can be donated from his MacNN family.

Just a thought.

[davesimondotcom]

Rereading some of zigzag's comments made me realize that, although I'm sure we were not in agreement on everything, this place is going to have a hole in it for a long time, missing his sense of humor and wit.

[budster101]

.

.

.

[Face Ache]

Originally Posted by budster101

If there is a God, I'm sure zigzag and he are having an interesting conversation right now, and God is splitting a gut laughing his arse off...

If there is a god I'm sure zigzag will still be in shock.

zig, if there IS a god, please contact us in some way. Crash the server or something.

Originally Posted by zigzag

I never got this either. People scoff at the fantasies of children and lunatics, then ask them to believe in even more fantastical things, including an adult version of Santa Claus.

Humans are vain and have powerful imaginations, a deadly combination. They like to think they were put here for a special purpose and that a divine being speaks to and acts upon them. If they didn't, Benny Hinn would be selling shoes in a mall somewhere. The sad fact is that in 80 years or so, even the youngest among us will be fertilizer. There is no Magic Spirit World. Dust to dust and all that.

Life is short. Enjoy it while you can.

Goodbye friend.

[lurkalot]

Originally Posted by budster101

If there is a God, I'm sure zigzag and he are having an interesting conversation right now, and God is splitting a gut laughing his arse off...

I guess you need such fantasies to deal with your grief.

"There is no Magic Spirit World." Zigzag (11-12-2004)

"Life's really pretty sad no matter what. The happiest people are probably underneath it pretty sad. Universally in Asia, where they believe in reincarnation, life is considered a curse. They hate it. They don't want to come back." John Fahey, 1939-2001. As quoted by Zigzag (11-13-2004)

[scottiB]

Originally Posted by Xeo

As for donating, since the $50 mark may be high for many people, perhaps using PayPal to donate to ScottiB and assuming the number goes above the minimum $50, the whole amount can be donated from his MacNN family.

Just a thought.

A very good idea. Unfortunately, I'm an eBay Luddite and don't have a PayPal account. If someone with a valid PayPal account wouldn't mind the handling the collection, please PM me, and I'll post it here.

I don't have Internet access readily available at my job for the next few days, so I'll get back to you this evening.

Thanks.

[dav]

i best recall zigzag for his experience in audio equipment and and how his opinions mirrored mine.

rest in peace.

[budster101]

.

.

.

[xi_hyperon]

Enough.

The thought that zigzag is gone still shocks and pains me, and I know I'm just one person here out of many who will miss him very, very much. Wherever he is, I wish him the peace he greatly deserves. I also offer my condolences to his family, whose pain likely dwarfs what we feel here on the boards.

I think it is great that some here have posted their favorites from the zigzag collection. There are so many good posts, I could see this thread going on for some time. I haven't had much time to search yet, but will add some of my own favorites here as well as time allows in the next days.

[budster101]

.

.

.

.

[Kevin]

Zimphire
I am not sure what my stance is on oral sex.
Zigzag
Just relax, and any stance will do. Sitting is also fine, especially if you like to catch up on your reading.

Man I forgot ALL about those..


<-- me

[budster101]

.

.

.

[CaseCom]

Very sad news.

I will add my name to the long list of people for whom zigzag was one of the few MacNNers I corresponded with (if only occasionally) off the forums. For us the topic was usually cars; I bought a Subaru Forester about the same time he was considering what to do with is chronically ill VW Passat. I think he did end up getting a Subaru (sadly those PMs have long since been deleted).

As others did, I also appreciated his wit and his intelligence.

Rest in peace, zigzag.

[Jim Paradise]

An excellent member of MacNN and, as others have already stated, one whose posts were insightful and clear. While I had no personal connection to the gentleman, I always thoroughly enjoyed his posts; he'll be missed.

[Xeo]

I'm working with Scott in setting up a MacNN fund which will all be donated in Zigzag's name to the charity of his family's choice. If you want to donate any amount (no amount is too small), please click the link. The PayPal account is my own and I will keep you posted as to how much has come in.

Zigzag Memorial Fund

(This is a premier account and is credit card friendly. If you would like your entire donation to be made without giving 3% to PayPal, click here and use your checking account. No credit cards on this link please.)

[UNTeMac]

As others have said, you never realize how someone's words let you into their humanity until they're silenced like this. This place and its people keep me coming back and zigzag was a great contributor.

I'll miss him. RIP.

[jebjeb]

I remember some great discussions regarding hifi and such. Seemed like a top bloke.

Have a good one mate.

[Sven G]

Zigzag was a cool poster.

More I cannot say, as I didn't know him personally.

As for the motivations of his death, nothing can be said, similarly: he must have had some reasons, though.

A very sad thing, anyway...

[Randman]

Originally Posted by Xeo

I'm working with Scott in setting up a MacNN fund which will all be donated in Zigzag's name to the charity of his family's choice. If you want to donate any amount (no amount is too small), please click the link. The PayPal account is my own and I will keep you posted as to how much has come in.

Zigzag Memorial Fund

Done. Thanks for setting that up.

One question: Did I miss something? What was his real-world name?

[Xeo]

Total fund up to $85 now.

[SimeyTheLimey]

I just got back from vacation to this news. I'm really quite stunned.

I only knew him on the boards, but RIP, friend.

[CaseCom]

A good man asked me recently: Why does life always have to be so complicated?

I knew zigzag's "real" name from having traded a couple of e-mails with him. I plugged it into Google on a whim, and here is what I found:

http://hometownlife.com/Birmingham/N...Date=8/14/2005

http://hometownlife.com/Plymouth/New...PubDate=Sunday

http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/4843580/detail.html

My first reaction was anger. But after rereading my post above and others in this thread, I realized that what we said remains true: his wit, his intelligence and his good humor made this forum a better place. Reconciling the light with the dark is just not possible. Or at least I don't know how.

So I say it again, but with an extra dose of sadness: Rest in peace, zigzag.

[BRussell]

Harumph. I'd rather not have known that.

[theolein]

I think I'd rather not have known that either. It explains a lot, but only makes the tragedy worse. People are not black or white. There are alot of greys in between.

[MrForgetable]

Originally Posted by CaseCom

A good man asked me recently: Why does life always have to be so complicated?

I knew zigzag's "real" name from having traded a couple of e-mails with him. I plugged it into Google on a whim, and here is what I found:

[links]

My first reaction was anger. But after rereading my post above and others in this thread, I realized that what we said remains true: his wit, his intelligence and his good humor made this forum a better place. Reconciling the light with the dark is just not possible. Or at least I don't know how.

So I say it again, but with an extra dose of sadness: Rest in peace, zigzag.

there are times when i wish i had not found out the truth (if it is indeed the truth), and this is one of them. honestly, i'm not sure if it is the most appropriate thing to post in this thread, but it might be just me..

[Timo]

.

[budster101]

.

.

.

[jcadam]

I foresee this thread degenerating quickly now. Mods: Perhaps a lock is in order?

[budster101]

.

.

.

[maxelson]

Passing judgment is a pastime in this country. It is why we follow court tv, MIchael Jackson, OJ, etc. Hell, it is a basic part of "human drama" to place ourselves in a spot where we can say, "well, if it were me, I never would have allowed..." or "I would be successful because". It is what we do.
We hold self righteousness to be self evident.
There was no trial, there was no verdict.
There was, unless I am reading the material incorrectly, no jury of 12 passing judgement.
Maybe we should attempt to set that aside here. Bottom line is, we don't know. I will offer neither excuse nor condemnation.
Lets focus on the part we knew- the part with which we have had interaction.

And no, I don't think there should be a lock. We can discuss these things rationally- as adults. Part of a grieving process is the attempt to understand and place events within context. We should be discussing Zig. Just remember to keep expression in check. No one can object to feelings and I think it is good we discuss them. The expression of said feelings is what needs to be controlled.

[lavar78]

Originally Posted by maxelson

And no, I don't think there should be a lock. We can discuss these things rationally- as adults.

I think you're on the wrong site.

[dav]

the reason i mostly lurk here is the personalities, whether real or invented, wrong or right, deceptive or true. i only know zigzag from this invented place, where for better or for worse, he will remain as he presented himself.

[boots]

I've been trying to figure out how to articulate my feelings on this without shifting the focus from ZigZag. I'm not sure I'll be successful, so I apologize ahead of time if I screw it up.

1) Regarding the news paper articles:

When I was in high school, one of my teachers took "early retirement" and just disappeared in the middle of my junior year. This was my favorite teacher, and he was probably the strongest influence in my life (aside from parents). He was a great teacher. It turns out that he had been having an affair with one of the seniors (whom I knew and was friends with). He took early retirement rather than fighting the whole thing. To say I was shocked is an understatement. But the more I thought about it, the more it came down to "the facts": He was the best teacher I'd ever had and he was a huge influence in my life. None of that changed. Some of my classmates, who felt exactly the same way before the revelation, did complete u-turns: they felt betrayed and consequently ignored "the facts."

I forgave him for his shortcomings. Others did not. I still keep in touch with him. I still think of him as the most influential teacher in my life. I just recognize that one should not buy into cultic personality nor should one put such people on pedestals. Our role models and influences are people. They have flaws. Some flaws are worse than others, but we all have our demons. Does this mean that I don't think this teacher was treated fairly by the system? No. I think he got off easy. He screwed up and there are consequences for that. He didn't try to dodge the consequences, but chose the lesser of the consequences presented. Ironically, through his teaching I learned how to distinguish between the good that I wanted to emulate and the bad that I did not want to emulate. He was still a role model either way.

Back to ZigZag: Nothing I posted earlier about ZigZag is false, now that we have this "revelation." Even if this is true (I don't know, it may or may not be), ZigZag and I seemed to share very similar political beliefs. We even seemed to share thought patterns (i.e. HOW we think about things) and patterns of expression. I am not ZigZag, though, and we didn't share the same demon. If it were true, and ZigZag hadn't killed himself, I expect that I would still enjoy talking with him. Were he in MN or I in MI, I'd probably even go see him in jail. People have faults, they make mistakes, and so long as they take responsibility I will not take away their "human" status. ZigZag would have continued to be a friend.

2) Regarding CaseCom posting the articles
(and the idea that some have expressed (privately) concerning splitting this part of the thread into a new discussion.)

People are complex. No one is all good, nor is anyone all bad. When remembering people, we should remember the whole person, not just the good or the bad. Otherwise, we are not really remembering the person, but rather an idea of the person.

While I may not have chosen to post that information, someone did. It was not presented as false testimony to who ZigZag was. The accusations were made, and they apparently were a big part of why ZigZag did what he did. So they are certainly relevant (allegation true or not) to the memory of ZigZag.

Please don't lock this thread. Please don't split it into two discussions.

[budster101]

.

.

.

.

.

[maxelson]

The thread is about zigzag. Please stick to zigzag.

[budster101]

I'm too upset to participate in this thread.

[jcadam]

Wonder how many of his videos are circulating on the 'net', feeding the lust of other perverts?

[Mastrap]

Originally Posted by jcadam

Wonder how many of his videos are circulating on the 'net', feeding the lust of other perverts?

The thread is about zigzag. Please stick to zigzag.
If you want to discuss whatever he is alleged to have done start your own thread about it.

[xi_hyperon]

One of the best traits zig had was his humor, even in the most serious of debates.

When everyone else would be getting heated up to the boiling point, zig would make one of his trademark posts: relevant, level-headed, but topped off with a funny quip to take the edge off of the conversation. It would have been fun to have just sat and listened to him in a real-world debate.

[budster101]

Originally Posted by Mastrap

The thread is about zigzag. Please stick to zigzag.
If you want to discuss whatever he is alleged to have done start your own thread about it.

Well, it was a post about zigzag.

[davesimondotcom]

The allegations against zigzag in the real world do not take away from the fact that he was intelligent and witty.

[davesimondotcom]

Originally Posted by budster101

That was about zigzag. Read the articles. This was his SECOND offense. This thread was begun under false pretences.

No, if it was started under false pretences, zigzag wouldn't really be dead and he would be here to defend himself.

These were two accusations. We don't know whether or not they are true. He never went to trial.

[budster101]

No, the thread starter knew of this ahead of time.

[theolein]

I don't think it was started under false pretenses. It was started because ZigZag died. Scotti simply chose not to post that information. If CaseCom had not dug it up on Google, you might still be singing ZigZag's praises. I don't think it really takes much intelligence to gauge what the reactions would have been then. I mean, it's not as if everyone here is a nice, friendly soul with no ungodly thoughts or feelings, is it?

[maxelson]

Bottom line, budster, we know NOTHING. Nothing.
If you would like to judge, that is your right. What we are asking is that you do it elsewhere. This thread is not for that.
I have no issue discussing the casecom posts, but let's keep it in perspective. You also don't know of scottib's intelligence on the issues casecom presented. Lets not start judging him as well.
If you feel too upset by the thread, the reaction to you or anything else contained in here, I suggest you just follow your own advice and not participate. We should not have this devolve into a mean spirited or judgmental debate about anything pertaining to what, again, we know nothing about.
There is a time and place for everything. This is not the time or place for that debate.
In that spirit, I would request as well that everyone take their suspicious elsewhere.