[Snow-i]

New York man, jailed for 3 years without trial, kills himself | Fox News

Seriously? 3 Years in jail with no trial?

Someone else should go to jail for this, for much longer than 3 years. Aside the constitutional issues, this is just downright sick. Perhaps there are details I am missing about why it was 3 freakin years, but reading this article really got my blood boiling. There isn't even a crime to pardon posthumously, though the taxpayers in NY are about to shell out a shit ton of money to his family thanks to criminal negligence on the part of the prosecutors in charge of his case.

[Snow-i]

Side topic:

Anyone catch John Oliver on the state of our current bail system and how absurd it is compared to modern society? Thought we got rid of debtors' prisons long ago.

[Waragainstsleep]

John Oliver is awesome. Pity he can't be your president.

[Cap'n Tightpants]

Still any doubts that NY is an oppressive, authoritarian state?

[The Final Dakar]

Originally Posted by Snow-i 

Side topic:

Anyone catch John Oliver on the state of our current bail system and how absurd it is compared to modern society?

That was going to be my response tot he thread. A read a brief summary of stats and it sounded like the bail bond system is antiquated and unnecessary in most cases. (I seem to recall it getting abused in he aftermath of the Freddie Grey protests as well)

Originally Posted by Snow-i 

Thought we got rid of debtors' prisons long ago.

I don't see that as this case – but it has been making a come back through private firms, I believe.

[osiris]

Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants 

Still any doubts that NY is an oppressive, authoritarian state?

We're #1!

Yeah, it's gotten pretty bad here. I think NY has more restrictions than any other state, and NYC is rapidly becoming a sterilized and homogenized Walt Disney theme park for tourists. With the exception of violent mentally ill people (they are allowed to roam freely throughout the subway system and streets), your freedoms here are limited to the status quo and wind direction. +the police are here to oppress you, not serve.

Also, we're the most corrupt state in the union, at last check.

But that guy from Riker's - he was poor and the wrong color, god knows what happened to him in there, but damn, that's f'd up. His story represents NYC's state of mind now.

[turtle777]

LOL, was it Bloomberg who said NY has the 6th largest army in the world (referring to its police force).

WTF ?

-t

[osiris]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

LOL, was it Bloomberg who said NY has the 6th largest army in the world (referring to its police force).

WTF ?

-t

No joke, the police here are militarized. Very oppressive in this regard.

[The Final Dakar]

9/11 didn't help things either. I don't wanna say they have jets, but they might own some UAVs?

[osiris]

Originally Posted by The Final Dakar 

9/11 didn't help things either. I don't wanna say they have jets, but they might own some UAVs?

I'll find out from someone I know on the UAVs. They do have a lot of helicopters - and not the cheap ones either.
Man, after 9/11 this country has its panties in a knot and up the ass. If every other country reacted as we did (on acts of terrorism, etc), they'd be no planet left.

[subego]

The article doesn't explain the policy which allowed this to happen.

In NYC, you have the right to a speedy trial. You need to be tried within six months.

So, the prosecution asks for a one week continuance because they're not ready. A week passes. The case goes back into the pool, but doesn't come up for five more weeks.

This counts as one week.

That's how the three years happened. Continuance after continuance.

[osiris]

Originally Posted by The Final Dakar 

9/11 didn't help things either. I don't wanna say they have jets, but they might own some UAVs?

No UAVs in the NYPD.

[The Final Dakar]

I googled it. Apparently they want some.

[osiris]

Originally Posted by The Final Dakar 

I googled it. Apparently they want some.

they want everything - but they'll probably get the drones anyway, budget be damned.

[subego]

I feel like the NYCPD could easily field more military gear than what gets thrown at the dinosaur in the trailer for Jurassic World.

[Waragainstsleep]

To be fair, you ought to be able to run a police UAV for less money than a police chopper.

[subego]

Good point. Safer, too.

[Snow-i]

Originally Posted by subego 

The article doesn't explain the policy which allowed this to happen.

In NYC, you have the right to a speedy trial. You need to be tried within six months.

AFAICT, this wasn't a policy issue. ****, it's not a policy issue at all. It's an issue of the constitution and the citizenry's repeated willingness to let the ruling class use it as toilet paper.

So, the prosecution asks for a one week continuance because they're not ready. A week passes. The case goes back into the pool, but doesn't come up for five more weeks.

This counts as one week.

Again, the government and the courts are wholesale ignoring the constitution as we've allow ourselves so many "ifs" "buts" and "whens" that the bill of rights has become meaningless from a practical perspective.

That's how the three years happened. Continuance after continuance.

The judge(s) that granted those continuances ought to be disbarred for civil rights violations, and the state prosecutors who kept him in jail ought to be thrown there themselves for a minimum of 3 years. Plain and simple this was a violation of the right to a speedy trial. Throw the beatings by the guards in there, a few more of these incidents and it's not long until you start hearing whispers towards that R word.

[subego]

I did find it curious the judge didn't seem to have a problem with it.

I don't expect any better from prosecutors, though.

[Cap'n Tightpants]

How the system is typically stacked:

Judges = Lawful Neutral
Prosecutors = Lawful Evil
Defense Attorneys = Chaotic Neutral (or Evil)

How they should be:

Judges = Lawful Good
Prosecutors = Lawful Neutral
Defense Attorneys = Neutral (or Chaotic) Good

[BadKosh]

NYC Seems to have a hiring problem.

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/...icle-1.2252202

[Jawbone54]

So blacks in NYC have a disproportionately high arrest record (often pot-related), which results in a disproportionately low presence on the police force, which results in a disproportionately high number of white cops perpetuating the cycle.

Got it.

[The Final Dakar]

The stats are bullshit anyway.I think someone calculated there still has to be 800,000 eligible blacks in NYC.

[Jawbone54]

I'd be curious to see the number of black applications to the NYPD. I wonder if many event want to be involved, considering the present climate.

[BadKosh]

It would be a good idea, and maybe calm things down if black police were given the chance to serve their own? I know, it seems like segregation.

[The Final Dakar]

I imagine this is a politically incorrect view, but I'm not a big believer in diversity being a solution to the problem with police. Blacks retain an outsider status within society, and pairing that status with a very closed, fraternal organization puts them in the situation where they likely have adhere to police tenets twice as much as their white brethren.

I'm more optimistic about the concept of having local law enforcement, but the bottom line is neither police of color, nor locality will reform policing so much as slightly improve it.

[subego]

Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants 

How the system is typically stacked:

Judges = Lawful Neutral
Prosecutors = Lawful Evil
Defense Attorneys = Chaotic Neutral (or Evil)

How they should be:

Judges = Lawful Good
Prosecutors = Lawful Neutral
Defense Attorneys = Neutral (or Chaotic) Good

Aren't defense attorneys in a bit of a pickle, though?

They have to try and get their client off the hook, regardless of whether the client is deserving.

[subego]

Originally Posted by The Final Dakar 

I imagine this is a politically incorrect view, but I'm not a big believer in diversity being a solution to the problem with police. Blacks retain an outsider status within society, and pairing that status with a very closed, fraternal organization puts them in the situation where they likely have adhere to police tenets twice as much as their white brethren.

I'm more optimistic about the concept of having local law enforcement, but the bottom line is neither police of color, nor locality will reform policing so much as slightly improve it.

I'd say the proof is in the pudding.

We have relatively diverse police departments in major urban areas. Has it fixed things?

[The Final Dakar]

Originally Posted by subego 

I'd say the proof is in the pudding.

We have relatively diverse police departments in major urban areas. Has it fixed things?

Thats part of what forms my view. Does anyone here think a black police officer is less likely to shoot you or abuse his or her authority than a white officer?

Perhaps there's been studies done on this, but I haven't heard of them.

[subego]

I know I've mentioned it before. I've had tons of people, many of them cops, declare unequivocally that being a cop makes you racist.

[Jawbone54]

I live in an area with a population of about 447,000 people. The majority live in Shreveport, with a population of 200,000, with over 100,000 of them African-American.

You all know the South's history: white people were terrible for 200-ish years, and some still are.

The atmosphere is much better these days, and racism seems to be the exception rather than the rule. Shreveport's government is largely African-American, so there isn't the "white people lording over the rest" issue. However, there is still a deep-seated resentment within a significant portion of Shreveport's black community. To follow up on subego's point, and modify it a bit — being a cop doesn't make you a racist. If you live here, simply being white makes you a racist. If you're a white person who goes into one of our traditionally-black businesses (especially the restaurants), you can sometimes feel the resentment for your having interloped. I once had a friend tell me about a place he played basketball. I asked him to bring me along sometime, but he just shook his head and laughed, "You don't understand...I can't be the guy who brings a white dude! It just doesn't happen."

We have many black members of our church that are sometimes ostracized by their friends and/or families because they go to a "white church," and "all those white people actually hate you." Even though our church is around 20% African-American, they tell me that their families would prefer they go to a church that is 100% black, out of fear that white people simply cannot be trusted. It's a mixture of unforgiveness, anger, fear, and even a little bit of good, old-fashioned racism.

I can understand how there would be a huge amount of distrust, considering the South's past.

Back to my point: the issue is bigger than the police. All of the events in Ferguson, Baltimore, etc. are symptoms of a deeper problem. How do we bridge that gap between cultures? How do we right the wrongs of the past, but do so constructively instead of apologetically? How can you retrain police to act rationally when they're living each day in an dangerous, emotionally-charged environment? How does any of this get better any time soon? All sides have to make a serious effort.

[The Final Dakar]

Originally Posted by Jawbone54 

Back to my point: the issue is bigger than the police. All of the events in Ferguson, Baltimore, etc. are symptoms of a deeper problem. How do we bridge that gap between cultures? How do we right the wrongs of the past, but do so constructively instead of apologetically? How can you retrain police to act rationally when they're living each day in an dangerous, emotionally-charged environment? How does any of this get better any time soon? All sides have to make a serious effort.

Aside from reform, the answers seem to be, getting policed by people you know, and having the people who police you get to know you. Community outreach. I never hear anything bad about it.

[The Final Dakar]

Saw this over the weekend... Man arrested as teen has waited 7 years in Rikers for trial | New York Post

[Cap'n Tightpants]

I wish the media wouldn't use pics of when the people were 12-13, as is too common now, it only undermines their story and draws criticism.