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Let's take a look at where we are, ideologically speaking. (Page 4)
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subego
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Jul 15, 2015, 12:11 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
This... is why I don't like you.
     
The Final Dakar
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Jul 15, 2015, 12:12 PM
 
Not personally. Just his PL posts.
     
subego
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Jul 15, 2015, 12:18 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
Not personally. Just his PL posts.
I'm honestly at a total loss as to what the issue is.

Not that I disagree with it, I have no idea what it actually is.
     
Cap'n Tightpants  (op)
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Jul 15, 2015, 01:27 PM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
The most modern incarnation of feminism is also a prime example, with the war now won in the 1st world and legal equality achieved, classical feminism started to decline. Well, not willing to allow a wildly successful label go to waste, Marxist ideologues have now scooped it up*, changed a few of the words around (ex. substituted "capitalism" for "patriarchy"), dropped the feminist narrative regarding individual freedom, added on support for other socially marginalized groups such as the LGBT community (to add to their numbers), and are now attempting to proceed forward under the guise of egalitarianism, while shunning classical egalitarians as a patriarchal (capitalist) movement**.
I mean, it's not like disagreeing with these new-wave feminists will get you imprisoned, or anything like that. Right?

http://news.nationalpost.com/full-co...or-free-speech

WTG Canada. So free speech, much "progressive".
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subego
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Jul 15, 2015, 02:53 PM
 
I hadn't heard of this case, so I needed to dig.

AFAICT, he didn't cross the line with the rabid activist, but kinda did with one of the others.

The rabid activist is saying the criminal harassment is him failing to stop tweeting her. I don't think it should work that way.

The second person says she received tweets from him about the place she was in at the moment. I'm not sure I agree he should do time for that, but the allegation of impropriety isn't a farce like it is with the rabid activist.
     
andi*pandi
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Jul 15, 2015, 07:35 PM
 
I don't have time to dig, but will trust subego's digging.

Repeatedly getting @mentioned in tweets when you don't want to be can be just as harassing as someone continually calling your phone, sending hate mail, or other methods of communication. It's a flood of hate. Plenty of bullying cases now revolve around facebook and snapchat or whatever else the kids these days are using. The intent should be judged not the medium. If someone opts out of the conversation, the other party should respect that.

Now, two people in spirited debate... tit for tat?

I don't usually get deeply into internet arguments, both due to time and also the feeling that as the only woman basically here, I'd have to speak for all women and better make it good. However...

Capt, I've recently noticed you throwing SJW and anti-feminist statements out there, which surprised me. No, the first world has not won the first wave of feminism, or the second. Are we in the third? I haven't been counting. After the first, we got to wear pantaloons and vote. After the second, well... there's more women in executive positions, but they are still paid less than their equally skilled counterparts. There are plenty of people out there who don't like uppity women, or don't like women in certain roles, or don't think women can do science. Women can't walk down the street without being harassed. We still need feminism. And no, feminism does not mean anti-man, demeaning men, or making the sexes into androgynous robots.

If you want to discuss this with me rationally, do not belittle me with "social justice warrior" as an epithet. I'm a second-wave feminist. Do not make feminist an insult. It makes you sound small-minded, and I had respected you more than that.
( Last edited by andi*pandi; Jul 15, 2015 at 07:58 PM. )
     
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Jul 15, 2015, 08:12 PM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
It's about the co-option of titles that are in no way connected with the movement behind them. Progressives, as a modern political movement, aren't progressive, Liberals, as they are presented within the USA, aren't liberal, and Christians don't behave in a very Christ-like fashion. Suffice to say, compared to their dictionary definitions, these labels are often purposely misleading.
I can see why a libertarian might not think of liberals as liberal, but compared to conservatives they still are aren't they?


Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
Corporatization in the 21st century is power, power purchased with money, and if you can't beat `em, join `em. It's really that simple (because it takes a lot of money to maintain a political movement).

I'm not suggesting for a second that the democrats aren't corporatised as well, just that the Republicans are pretty blatant with their pro-corporation policies and attitudes so if one was more pro-corporation than the other, it would easily be the GOP surely? The dems are happy for government to do more while they GOP would let private industry do it instead right?
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
Waragainstsleep
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Jul 15, 2015, 08:49 PM
 
I have noticed that feminism has become a very wide-ranging term to the point where many people don't really seem to know exactly what it means and whether or not they are one any more. Some are even scared they might be saying something negative about themselves by declaring they are feminist.

Most (lets call them traditional or obvious) feminist issues I have always considered easy to answer. Equal rights, fair treatment, equal pay for same jobs etc, I'm for all of that. No brainer.

There was a video of a girl walking around a city with someone following her filming and the description talked about all the times she was harassed. They stopped short of counting them up as they went but it I found it troubling with some of the instances that seemed to be classed as harassment. In several cases men simply said hello or good morning. Were they doing so because this was an attractive young woman? Probably, yes. Almost certainly in fact, so I sort of take their point but I sometimes say good morning to people. Sometimes strangers. Not just young attractive women either. So does this really mean that I'm not allowed to say hello in passing to an attractive girl because I'd be harassing her? Can I even smile or glance her way? I find this immensely troubling. Where should the line be here?
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
subego
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Jul 16, 2015, 09:21 AM
 
@Waragainstsleep,

I think smiles and "hellos" make the world a better place. You should continue to do that, and not feel bad for it.

However, it sounds like you're going an extra step and demanding total strangers receive it well. Strangers who, for whatever reason, may be genuinely scared shitless of you.
     
subego
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Jul 16, 2015, 09:39 AM
 
Originally Posted by andi*pandi View Post
If you want to discuss this with me rationally, do not belittle me with "social justice warrior" as an epithet. I'm a second-wave feminist. Do not make feminist an insult. It makes you sound small-minded, and I had respected you more than that.
1) That you feel belittled is wrong, and needs to be addressed.

2) Capt' would belittle you to your face if that was his intent.

IOW, I think you have a right to be miffed, but I'm almost positive Cap'n isn't guilty to the extent you've accused him.


I have a feeling Cap'n is a feminist the way I'm a Republican. We are these things, but have reasons we don't want to phrase it that way.
     
andi*pandi
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Jul 16, 2015, 11:38 AM
 
I was being a little proactive on the defensiveness, I admit, subego.

War, I like polite smiles, nods, part of being human is connecting with each other, but then again, I feel safer than most women. I have friends who routinely get the non-innocuous "hey baby nice ***********" catcalls, rude suggestions, from people walking down the street, or at events, even cabdrivers who know their address. BRRR. Those friends would probably be a lot more suspicious/careful of nice guys like yourself making polite chitchat.

It's just putting yourself in someone else's shoes. I like seeing other people's cute kids, and am sometimes tempted to give compliments or smiles, but then I check myself and realize that can be creepy, even if I do have my own kids with me as credentials.
     
Cap'n Tightpants  (op)
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Jul 16, 2015, 12:37 PM
 
Originally Posted by andi*pandi View Post
I don't have time to dig, but will trust subego's digging.

Repeatedly getting @mentioned in tweets when you don't want to be can be just as harassing as someone continually calling your phone, sending hate mail, or other methods of communication. It's a flood of hate. Plenty of bullying cases now revolve around facebook and snapchat or whatever else the kids these days are using. The intent should be judged not the medium. If someone opts out of the conversation, the other party should respect that.

Now, two people in spirited debate... tit for tat?
If they couldn't block or mute the man, which would then keep him from including them in @ messages, then I'd partially agree, but they could and chose not to (for future ammunition, most likely). That's the beauty of Twitter, if you don't want to take criticism from someone else you don't have to.

I don't usually get deeply into internet arguments, both due to time and also the feeling that as the only woman basically here, I'd have to speak for all women and better make it good. However...

Capt, I've recently noticed you throwing SJW and anti-feminist statements out there, which surprised me. No, the first world has not won the first wave of feminism, or the second. Are we in the third? I haven't been counting. After the first, we got to wear pantaloons and vote. After the second, well... there's more women in executive positions, but they are still paid less than their equally skilled counterparts. There are plenty of people out there who don't like uppity women, or don't like women in certain roles, or don't think women can do science. Women can't walk down the street without being harassed. We still need feminism. And no, feminism does not mean anti-man, demeaning men, or making the sexes into androgynous robots.
Then you haven't been following the #killallmen activity from the most prominent 3rd wave feminist leaders. Does the world still need feminism? Not the new variety, because it isn't about equality, it's about pushing superiority and destroying "choice feminism", which is what 2nd wave feminism and the sexual revolution was all about. 3rd wave feminists are the man-hating, anti-"patriarchy", Social Justice-wielding wackos who want to minimize individual rights, no matter the cost, at the expense of what their forebears fought so hard to achieve. Frankly, they're your enemies more than they're mine.

If you want to discuss this with me rationally, do not belittle me with "social justice warrior" as an epithet. I'm a second-wave feminist. Do not make feminist an insult. It makes you sound small-minded, and I had respected you more than that.
3rd wave feminists are insulting your ideology, not me. I live with two classical feminists and have for over a decade, I know the platform as well as any man can, and likely better than most women, and what the 3WFs teach is misandry and Marxism. Their language and actions are permeating feminism and undermining the cause, at the expense of all "choice" feminists, not bolstering it (my partners are so mad at them they'd probably chew their faces off if they could reach them, so needless to say I hear about it daily).
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Cap'n Tightpants  (op)
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Jul 16, 2015, 12:47 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
1) That you feel belittled is wrong, and needs to be addressed.

2) Capt' would belittle you to your face if that was his intent.
I typed that without giving context, was my fault.

and yeah, I'm not shy about addressing people directly, when the situation calls for it. But I wasn't actually trying to do that.


I have a feeling Cap'n is a feminist the way I'm a Republican. We are these things, but have reasons we don't want to phrase it that way.
I'm a 110% choice (aka. 2nd wave) feminist and all for maximizing every woman's individual rights.
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subego
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Jul 16, 2015, 12:52 PM
 
The irony is Third Wave Feminism wasn't this ten years ago. My ex was getting her master in gender studies at the time, so I was in the thick of it.

This seems ridiculous now, but one of the major tenets of TWF used to be that SWF went too far in some regards. That in the frustration with inequality, parts of the baby got thrown out with the bath water.

A TWF position from ten years ago was you're not abandoning feminism by wearing a thong.
     
Cap'n Tightpants  (op)
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Jul 16, 2015, 01:02 PM
 
Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep View Post
I can see why a libertarian might not think of liberals as liberal, but compared to conservatives they still are aren't they?
No, they're the same type of people, authoritarians, just replace "exploitation" with "sin" and it's an identical narrative. It's the same all around with the Progressive/Social Justice set, they've elevated their ideology to a religion, and this is what happens when you believe your religious views are superior and are right for everyone else. Subjugate individual choice to "advance" the social collective.

I'm not suggesting for a second that the democrats aren't corporatised as well, just that the Republicans are pretty blatant with their pro-corporation policies and attitudes so if one was more pro-corporation than the other, it would easily be the GOP surely? The dems are happy for government to do more while they GOP would let private industry do it instead right?
Blatant or subtle, overt or covert, it's equally as advanced and influential on both sides of the aisle, a quick look at the levels of corporate donations to both parties confirms that in spades.
"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
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but by the content of their character." - M.L.King Jr
     
Cap'n Tightpants  (op)
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Jul 16, 2015, 01:04 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
The irony is Third Wave Feminism wasn't this ten years ago. My ex was getting her master in gender studies at the time, so I was in the thick of it.

This seems ridiculous now, but one of the major tenets of TWF used to be that SWF went too far in some regards. That in the frustration with inequality, parts of the baby got thrown out with the bath water.

A TWF position from ten years ago was you're not abandoning feminism by wearing a thong.
and now the narrative is, "Cover up your body! You're belittling and exploiting all women!"
"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
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subego
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Jul 16, 2015, 01:07 PM
 
I think the difference here is the same difference we're seeing in politics from 10-15 years ago.

Philosophy and politics used to have gatekeepers.

Now, anyone can play, and people are enabled to seek out exactly what they want to hear.

I'm not against this new model, but we're still in the early stages of shaking things out.
     
subego
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Jul 16, 2015, 01:08 PM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
and now the narrative is, "Cover up your body! You're belittling and exploiting all women!"
Slut shamer!
     
The Final Dakar
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Jul 16, 2015, 01:23 PM
 
Re: Thongs/physical appearance – and yes, I'm likely being too intellectual here – I think those outraged perceive it as a symbol not of liberation, but conformity to expectations. Example: There's nothing wrong with female promiscuity pre se, but if it is done out of insecurity or conforming to expectation, it's not a good thing. However, both are neither. They can merely be symptoms of a problem.

However, since they live in a perpetual state of outrage with the clock six minutes to midnight, they don't tend to discern the differences.
     
Cap'n Tightpants  (op)
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Jul 16, 2015, 01:33 PM
 
The thing is, offense is never given it's only taken. You can choose to not let every little thing, like a Princess Leia doll that's been on the market for >8 years, offend you. Welcome to 1983 (when RotJ was released), oh the horror! (WTG Carrie Fisher! Great replies to the drooling morons.)
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The Final Dakar
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Jul 16, 2015, 01:38 PM
 
Still, absurd things happen. Like cartoons being taken off the air because too many girls were watching (girls don't but merchandise) or the toy dinosaurs from Jurassic World inexplicably becoming male when their movie counterparts were female (this was rectified). There's still a lot of incredibly dumb shit happening out there.
     
subego
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Jul 16, 2015, 02:07 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
Still, absurd things happen. Like cartoons being taken off the air because too many girls were watching (girls don't but merchandise)
My "Hello Kitty" sensors are on high alert. Which show was this?
     
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Jul 16, 2015, 02:15 PM
 
     
Cap'n Tightpants  (op)
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Jul 16, 2015, 02:56 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
Boy nerds spend more money on their hobbies than girl nerds.
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subego
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Jul 16, 2015, 03:04 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
While I struggle to come up with something on topic, I'll mention I feel like these guys are armchair quarterbacking the captain of the Hindenburg.
     
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Jul 16, 2015, 05:08 PM
 
There is a lot of self-fulfilling prophecy in that, and also marketing. You'd have to walk your daughter down the boy toy aisle to find superheroes, robots, minecraft figures, etc. Which I do, but not everyone does. Also agree with Smith that even if they don't buy action figures, they'd buy something else, clothing or accessories.

A lot of things, if you make it, girls will buy. My girl loves to collect things. Thank goodness the lalaloopsy stage seems to be over. We're watching Justice League now.
     
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Jul 16, 2015, 06:13 PM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
No, they're the same type of people, authoritarians, just replace "exploitation" with "sin" and it's an identical narrative. It's the same all around with the Progressive/Social Justice set, they've elevated their ideology to a religion, and this is what happens when you believe your religious views are superior and are right for everyone else. Subjugate individual choice to "advance" the social collective.
I feel like this is not far from saying 'all these people want some things to be allowed and some things not to be allowed, for somethings to happen and for other things not to happen, therefore all these people are the same.'

As for elevating your own vision of the ideal society to the status of a religion, I would argue thats a much better and nobler thing to elevate to such a status than any religion is, but in truth it has probably always been the worldview that is more revered than the religion.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
Waragainstsleep
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Jul 16, 2015, 06:33 PM
 
Originally Posted by andi*pandi View Post
I was being a little proactive on the defensiveness, I admit, subego.

War, I like polite smiles, nods, part of being human is connecting with each other, but then again, I feel safer than most women. I have friends who routinely get the non-innocuous "hey baby nice ***********" catcalls, rude suggestions, from people walking down the street, or at events, even cabdrivers who know their address. BRRR. Those friends would probably be a lot more suspicious/careful of nice guys like yourself making polite chitchat.

It's just putting yourself in someone else's shoes. I like seeing other people's cute kids, and am sometimes tempted to give compliments or smiles, but then I check myself and realize that can be creepy, even if I do have my own kids with me as credentials.

I have no such credentials. As a lone male I tend to avoid even eye contact with children I don't know. I really hope I won't ever feel compelled to add all women to my 'no unsolicited attention' list too.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
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Jul 16, 2015, 06:46 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
@Waragainstsleep,

I think smiles and "hellos" make the world a better place. You should continue to do that, and not feel bad for it.

However, it sounds like you're going an extra step and demanding total strangers receive it well. Strangers who, for whatever reason, may be genuinely scared shitless of you.
I don't demand any specific reaction. I have reactions I hope for and I tailor my behaviour to increase the chances for reactions I prefer. You're right that some people probably are scared of me and some of those will be for reasons that have little to do with me or anything in my control that I could reasonably foresee. So I cross the street so as not to follow women in the dark rather than patrolling the neighbourhood wearing ICP makeup, carrying a machete.

In truth I would probably get away with more innocently pleasant or friendly gestures than most without being thought of as a harasser or a pest. Most women don't see me that way I suspect. Or maybe I just hope.
I think offence must be a component of harassment. A girl won't even think about harassment if a golden retriever bounds up to her and starts licking her toes enthusiastically. She (probably) will if Justin Bieber does it.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
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Jul 16, 2015, 07:58 PM
 
"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
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subego
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Jul 17, 2015, 03:41 AM
 
Originally Posted by andi*pandi View Post
There is a lot of self-fulfilling prophecy in that, and also marketing. You'd have to walk your daughter down the boy toy aisle to find superheroes, robots, minecraft figures, etc. Which I do, but not everyone does. Also agree with Smith that even if they don't buy action figures, they'd buy something else, clothing or accessories.

A lot of things, if you make it, girls will buy. My girl loves to collect things. Thank goodness the lalaloopsy stage seems to be over. We're watching Justice League now.
The more I think about this article, the more ticked-off I get.

Basically, I have the sum of 3,000 years worth of entertainment at my fingertips, and will soon be able to cheaply 3D print any toy I want...

But the problem is basic cable network executives not putting enough effort into luring little girls onto the materialism treadmill.

I feel like I'm taking crazy pills.
     
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Jul 17, 2015, 05:31 AM
 
This is kinda out of nowhere, but here's how Gamergate people plot on the compass:

     
subego
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Jul 17, 2015, 09:33 AM
 
Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep View Post
I don't demand any specific reaction. I have reactions I hope for and I tailor my behaviour to increase the chances for reactions I prefer. You're right that some people probably are scared of me and some of those will be for reasons that have little to do with me or anything in my control that I could reasonably foresee. So I cross the street so as not to follow women in the dark rather than patrolling the neighbourhood wearing ICP makeup, carrying a machete.

In truth I would probably get away with more innocently pleasant or friendly gestures than most without being thought of as a harasser or a pest. Most women don't see me that way I suspect. Or maybe I just hope.
I think offence must be a component of harassment. A girl won't even think about harassment if a golden retriever bounds up to her and starts licking her toes enthusiastically. She (probably) will if Justin Bieber does it.
Justin Bieber licking toes is why we want to keep our guns.


If there's a rational point to be taken from the inclusion of smiles and pleasant nods in the video, it would be a nod or pleasant smile can be taken as harassment, especially in the context of the dozens more aggressive displays one is getting. Judging by the post I quote above, this doesn't seem to be a point you take issue with.

I'm not making the jump to the post before it, where the video is waging thermonuclear war on smiles and pleasant nods.
     
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Jul 17, 2015, 09:49 AM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
Boy nerds spend more money on their hobbies than girl nerds.
Is this an anecdote or a provable fact?

Anyway here's some thoughts on that:
1. The anecdote is bunk – they both spend similar amounts of money just on different things
2. They do spend different amounts of money – because their parents give/spend on them differing amounts
3. They do get equal amounts of money but girls don't spend it – not because they don't like the hobby but because the merchandise doesn't appeal to them
     
The Final Dakar
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Jul 17, 2015, 09:52 AM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
This is kinda out of nowhere, but here's how Gamergate people plot on the compass:

I also wonder if there's a correlation between misogyny and involuntary celibacy or general social awkwardness.

I also also wonder how many of those are MRAs as well.
     
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Jul 17, 2015, 10:58 AM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
This is kinda out of nowhere, but here's how Gamergate people plot on the compass:

We're a libertarian plot, obviously.
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Jul 17, 2015, 11:02 AM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
Is this an anecdote or a provable fact?

Anyway here's some thoughts on that:
1. The anecdote is bunk – they both spend similar amounts of money just on different things
2. They do spend different amounts of money – because their parents give/spend on them differing amounts
3. They do get equal amounts of money but girls don't spend it – not because they don't like the hobby but because the merchandise doesn't appeal to them
4. Girls don't spend their money on the hobby, because they like cosmetics, purses, and nicer designer clothes. There's nothing wrong with any of those things, even if boys want to buy them too, but in their teen years that's usually a girls' market.
5. Girls are just more frugal with their own money, overall.
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Jul 17, 2015, 11:58 AM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
I also wonder if there's a correlation between misogyny and involuntary celibacy or general social awkwardness.

I also also wonder how many of those are MRAs as well.
It's interesting that you automatically associate misogyny with #Gamergate, when studies and actual research proves that fewer than 0.65% of GamerGate supporting accounts have been confirmed as harassing accounts. (In actuality that's substantially lower than the overall Twitter average.)

WAM! Bam! Narrative Dead! - TechRaptor

Also, MRAs are, by and large, just men who are sick of the system being stacked against them WRT marriage and domestic partnerships. How it (Men's Rights Activist) has become a dirty phrase, while "feminist" is looked at positively by the media, is a puzzler.
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Jul 17, 2015, 12:01 PM
 
<grr, forum ate my post. >

4.b) Do boys in their teen years really still buy lots of action figures and toys? Or do they too start focusing on appearance, spending money on expensive sneakers, hair gel, and Axe body spray?

My impression, is that both boys and girls stop buying "toys" in their teens, and then after college pick it up again when they need to decorate their crappy first apartment/work cubicle and have money, and feel nostalgic for being a kid again.

Dakar's #3 is also a good point. Many times I will want to buy something for a show/game I like, but am very critical of design, quality, etc so I don't buy that often.

As for frugal, maybe... my small sample shows the teen doesn't buy much except magic cards... taking the girl shopping however...
     
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Jul 17, 2015, 12:03 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
Is this an anecdote or a provable fact?
?

Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
4. Girls don't spend their money on the hobby, because they like cosmetics, purses, and nicer designer clothes. There's nothing wrong with any of those things, even if boys want to buy them too, but in their teen years that's usually a girls' market.
...and when they're preteen?

Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
5. Girls are just more frugal with their own money, overall.
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
Is this an anecdote or a provable fact?
     
The Final Dakar
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Jul 17, 2015, 12:05 PM
 
Originally Posted by andi*pandi View Post
4.b) Do boys in their teen years really still buy lots of action figures and toys? Or do they too start focusing on appearance, spending money on expensive sneakers, hair gel, and Axe body spray?
Middle-school? I would imagine a low percentage. By then it's video games, gadgets and accessories.
     
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Jul 17, 2015, 12:15 PM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
It's interesting that you automatically associate misogyny with #Gamergate
Not really. They're the loudest aspect of the controversy.

Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
Also, MRAs are, by and large, just men who are sick of the system being stacked against them WRT marriage and domestic partnerships. How it (Men's Rights Activist) has become a dirty phrase, while "feminist" is looked at positively by the media, is a puzzler.
Feminist hasn't been positive for about as long as the term 'liberal.' The conservative political machine has seen to that.
     
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Jul 17, 2015, 12:15 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
...and when they're preteen?
Tweens are worse, because they're settling into their image is women.

also:

Who Spends the Most Money? - The Daily Beast
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Jul 17, 2015, 12:24 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
Not really. They're the loudest aspect of the controversy.
If rampant corruption was destroying your favorite pastime, you'd be pissed too.

Feminist hasn't been positive for about as long as the term 'liberal.' The conservative political machine has seen to that.
Citation? Feminists have been media darlings for >40 years, much to their advantage. This is good and bad, but simply writing off MRAs as a bad thing is to ignore what the guys behind the movement have suffered through, and it is suffering, just as much as any woman in our society faces today.
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The Final Dakar
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Jul 17, 2015, 01:17 PM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
Tweens are worse, because they're settling into their image is women.
There's also that time before being a tween you're disregarding as well.

Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
I don't see anything about children's spending habits here. Did I miss it? Quote the relevant portion pls
     
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Jul 17, 2015, 01:24 PM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
If rampant corruption was destroying your favorite pastime, you'd be pissed too.
lulz. You obviously haven't paying attention to my posts in gaming for the past 5-odd years.


Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
Citation? Feminists have been media darlings for >40 years, much to their advantage. This is good and bad, but simply writing off MRAs as a bad thing is to ignore what the guys behind the movement have suffered through, and it is suffering, just as much as any woman in our society faces today.
Feminism may be dead: 72 percent of Americans say they&#39;re not &#39;feminists&#39; - Washington Times
“It is negative associations people carry regarding feminism that causes Americans to shy away from the label. People are twice as likely to consider calling someone a feminist to be an insult (23 percent) rather than a compliment (12 percent),” the poll says.
https://today.yougov.com/news/2014/0...-does-it-mean/
     
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Jul 17, 2015, 01:50 PM
 
Over 20 years ago, in a classroom at a Women's College, in a WOMEN'S STUDIES class, the professor surveyed the room to ask if everyone thought they were a feminist, and what it meant to them. Many students said no, because feminists were man-hating, bitchy, etc. :/ Made me wonder why they were at that school then.
     
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Jul 17, 2015, 03:12 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
lulz. You obviously haven't paying attention to my posts in gaming for the past 5-odd years.
Then it's a good idea to look into what #Gamergate is at its core, a consumer revolt, and why so many liberals believe in it. Writing it off as bad due to a few rotten apples is akin to writing off minorities because a few have done destructive things during their demonstrations.

Since 49% of Americans are men, that's quite a high % of feminists. Also, I said the media, not the public (which you've now tried to shift to twice in this discussion). To say that feminism is popular with them (as well as academia) is a huge understatement. That's a good thing, or at least it would be if 3rd wave feminists and various other misandrists weren't stealing momentum away from their Choice feminist counterparts (who generally aren't man-haters at all).
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Jul 17, 2015, 03:18 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
There's also that time before being a tween you're disregarding as well.
Because they don't spend much money, their parents do, and parents have already deeply entrenched themselves into their habits, which they then try to imprint on to their children.

I don't see anything about children's spending habits here. Did I miss it? Quote the relevant portion pls
Because children (as in little children) have no substantial resources of their own (see above). By the time they do, such as when they start getting an allowance or a summer job, they're already well on their way to forming their self image.
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Jul 18, 2015, 04:47 AM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
It's interesting that you automatically associate misogyny with #Gamergate, when studies and actual research proves that fewer than 0.65% of GamerGate supporting accounts have been confirmed as harassing accounts. (In actuality that's substantially lower than the overall Twitter average.)

WAM! Bam! Narrative Dead! - TechRaptor
One doesn't have to reach the level of getting flagged to be a misogynist.

This isn't an argument Gamergate is a misogynistic movement, only a note the low flag rate isn't proving the converse.
     
 
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