[Spliffdaddy]

Liberals believe people are inherently bad.

Conservatives believe people are inherently good.


Which explains why liberals always want more legislation...and conservatives wish for less legislation.

[typoon]

Originally posted by Lerkfish:


when all think alike, no one thinks very much.

Sorry but I don't think alike, I tend to make my own decisions after listening to both sides. I just tend to agree with one side more than the other. I tend to follow the party line on most things but not on others.

[Lerkfish]

Originally posted by typoon:


Sorry but I don't think alike, I tend to make my own decisions after listening to both sides. I just tend to agree with one side more than the other. I tend to follow the party line on most things but not on others.

my apologies, there's been some confusion, which may be partly my fault. I've been addressing the lion's share of my comments to fxbeak, not you. I was doing that because he made the bizarre claim that liberals were this kind of boogeyman trying to control everyone like psychotic nazis. He then said 99% of what Drudge, Limabaugh, and Hannity report is true while nothing anyone else says is true, even if the conservative sources are uncorroborated. (in fact, he felt that was proof of their veracity if no one else backed them up).

My comments are to him that his fear is of liberals somehow wanting to control every aspect of his life. The irony is, he is allowing Drudge, Limbaugh, Hannity etc. to do that already. He is ALREADY completely controlled and is unaware of it.

Classic brainwashing techniques include the following:
1. discredit any other source of information except the brainwasher
2. Characterize the other side with extreme evil and hyperbole that has no basis in fact, but appeals to the fear within the people you're brainwashing.
3. Reinforce conformity within and without the group by ridiculing anyone who varies from the credo., Usually with personal attacks that have nothing to do with the actual philosophical differences.

[Lerkfish]

Originally posted by Spliffdaddy:
Liberals believe people are inherently bad.

Conservatives believe people are inherently good.


Which explains why liberals always want more legislation...and conservatives wish for less legislation.

This is another lie you've been spoonfed and accept as truth, not because you have anything to back it up (it is, after all, presuming to psychically understand the thinking of entire groups as if they were homogenous), but because it appeals to your existing bigotry and fears. You WANT that to be true, so therefore anyone who tells you that must be telling the truth, right?

[daimoni]

.

[Lerkfish]

Originally posted by daimoni:


Except for people who dare disagree with them. Then they're all 'evil-doers' who should get the death penalty.

technically, I don't think conservatives view non-conservatives as people, so that neatly addresses that.

[typoon]

Originally posted by daimoni:


Except for people who dare disagree with them. Then they're all 'evil-doers' who should get the death penalty.

Not true. I don't think that. You can disagree with me all you want.

[Jutaro]

Wow. What a bunch of partisan garbage. Try debating the actual issue instead of this ass-inine "liberals are this" or "conservatives are that".

We are all just people who want the best for our society, we just disagree about how to get there. Grow up.

[Lerkfish]

Originally posted by Jutaro:
Wow. What a bunch of partisan garbage. Try debating the actual issue instead of this ass-inine "liberals are this" or "conservatives are that".

We are all just people who want the best for our society, we just disagree about how to get there. Grow up.

thank you for that brief moment of clarity.

[Logic]

First of all, wow.
Second of all, I must ask what the general laws and restrictions are about firearms?
then I must ask rambo to cool down and really think if he did the smartest thing? I mean a rabid dog isn�t that dangerous to an adult. And to proudly say that he shot him 4 times after he�s down, did that make you feel very macho? Just wondering.

Then I wonder why we in europe don�t have the same crime rate as US. Is it maybe because we don�t wear guns and learn to protect ourselves in other ways than to pull up the gun. I�ve been threatened and I know that if someone does that I�ll rather give up my money or what ever rather than to shoot the other homo sapiens. We must never drop to the same level as the criminals.

Thank you and that�s all for now

[rambo47]

<yawn>

<click>

[Logic]

No really!

And I was also wondering were you had your gun? Was it in a safe, a closet, on a table or did you have it on you? I�m just wondering. No harm intended

[voodoo]

Originally posted by rambo47:
<yawn>

<click>

Apparently this ape is too stupid to answer. No surprises there.

[Logic]

I think you are right voodoo.
I thought that was a harsh but fair question. Maybe that is why he took that action instead of something more logical.

But still I wonder where he kept his gun at that time. I think that is maybe the most important aspect of the course of action he took.

[voodoo]

His problem is that there is something wrong with him. I dunno what, but this guy went completely amok, cursing me and swearing for no reason. I think he should be banned from these forums and I will report him.

[Ca$h68]

Go build some igloos, freaks.

- Ca$h

[voodoo]

Originally posted by Ca$h68:
Go build some igloos, freaks.

- Ca$h

Butt out Ca$h. Or participate in the discussion.

(btw, I can't build an Igloo. There is no snow)

[Logic]

I think you should. I mean it�s ok to argue but maybe you shouldn�t be here if you take everything personal. He brought it up and should then answer questions about what he said, even if we are of a different opinion.

[voodoo]

OK, who said that people with drivers licence cause accidents too. Give that person a prize! If they weren't obliged to get a licence to drive, I am pretty sure that accidents become more frequent in the traffic. It's kind of obvious.

<edit: oh it was Lerkfish>

posted by Lerky
The saddest thing is, you can require driver's licenses, but that does not prevent unsafe drivers. You can require dog licenses and still have people raising killer dogs intentionally.

[Logic]

And has anyone some logical explanation for the saying guns don�t kill people, people kill people. I think we can all agree that it is easier to take a life with a gun than with your bare hands. And if you have a gun at your disposal the one time you really loose it, who knows what you�ll do. I think that it is more likely that you will do something you�ll regret when all you have to do is pull the trigger. At least compared to stabbing a knife in someones gut. Am I the only one who thinks this way.

And please you who are of opposite opinion please tell me so, and try to explain why you think so rather than just implicating that all against you are idiots. It seems to be common here.

[Ca$h68]

Hey Eskimo, guess what? even if we ban guns I could still take control of a freakign 747 with a god damn box cutter. Shut the **** up and go hug some rainbows you stupid hippie.

- Ca$h

[Logic]

here is some statistics I think you should read

http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/rds/pdfs/hosb601.pdf

[Logic]

Hey Eskimo, guess what? even if we ban guns I could still take control of a freakign 747 with a god damn box cutter. Shut the **** up and go hug some rainbows you stupid hippie.

- Ca$h

You need help

[voodoo]

Originally posted by Ca$h68:
Hey Eskimo, guess what? even if we ban guns I could still take control of a freakign 747 with a god damn box cutter. Shut the **** up and go hug some rainbows you stupid hippie.

- Ca$h

So? Persons trained in martial arts could take over a 747 without ANY weapons. Who cares?

The point is, guns are more of a problem on *the ground*. Robbing stores, shooting neighbours, killing cops and children killing each other (through point and click interface no less!)

Now, you wouldn't be calling me a hippie and an eskimo, would you Ca$h?

[BRussell]

A funny movie.

[Demonhood]

no need for name calling folks.
remember: deep breathing exercises help you post. and give birth. but not at the same time please. i'd hate to have to order one of the mods to clean up.

oh, and Logic, your sig is outside the 140x40 guidelines.

[voodoo]

Originally posted by BRussell:
A funny movie.

ROFL! I have GOT to see this movie!

[voodoo]

Oh, and as cipher points out in the snier thread, you can deal a lot of damage with a hunting bow on a long range. Why don't you NRA types give it up and become the Natioanl Bow Association (NBA , no less)

That would be an idea.

[rambo47]

My handgun is in my nightstand drawer, secured with a gunlock. I wear the key on a chain around my neck. The magazine is in a jewelry box on top of said nightstand. </grunts like ape>

[Cipher13]

Originally posted by voodoo:
Oh, and as cipher points out in the snier thread, you can deal a lot of damage with a hunting bow on a long range. Why don't you NRA types give it up and become the Natioanl Bow Association (NBA , no less)

That would be an idea.

Indeed.

This argument is redundant. If guns were banned, or didn't exist, we'd be here argueing over something else.

If our society regressed a couple of thousand years, we'd be argueing over making slings illegal.

I've got a 66lb compound bow sitting behind the bar, with carbon fibre arrows, and I'm more effective with that than most gun owners could be with their own gun.

My brother has an olympic grade recurve bow, something that a tradesman could fashion from a few pieces of wood (essentially) - if you ban guns, and *do* manage to completely rid society of them (which will never happen), something else will fill the void.

I can't wait for the day people start argueing about long range laser weapons... I'll just laugh.

Guys - cool it. Be civil. We're all friends here, remember... and as far as any of us know, the other isn't a murderer. Stop being so harsh.

[voodoo]

It was just to get the NBA idea out.

I am far too realistic to think guns can ever be eradicated from this planet.

Right. That's settled then.

[BlackGriffen]

Damn it! I wanted to make fun of both libs and cons, but the conversation moved on before I could!

I'll do it anyway .

Liberals want to control your economic lives, and throw morals to the wind.

Conservatives want to control your moral lives, and throw economics to the wind.

Libertarians want to throw everything to the wind (except property laws and basic "don't hurt other people" stuff).

Totalitarians want to control everything.

They all suck.

Confucius say "The key is balance." Or was that Mr. Miagi of the Karate Kid?

Realists try to find the most beneficial balance given the present facts (and likely future ones).

Almost no one fits any of the bad stereotypes, I hope, and is at least somewhat of a realist.

Have a nice day .

BlackGriffen

[bender]

Originally posted by Steve:


It can NEVER EVER happen. EVER.

You will never get rid of guns entirely. It's impossible. You can "save thousands of lives" in lots of different ways, but it still doesn't mean they are right.

In Michigan, if we didn't have guns, deaths from deer-car accidents would be SKY HIGH! (they are already high as it is, with all the hunting that goes on).

So we're lessing one 'evil' to increase another?

Stupid.

The reason for the deer overpopulation is because people killed all the natural predators that prey on deer. When their guns, hee hee.

[bender]

Originally posted by Ca$h68:
Hey Eskimo, guess what? even if we ban guns I could still take control of a freakign 747 with a god damn box cutter. Shut the **** up and go hug some rainbows you stupid hippie.

- Ca$h

You're about as enlightening as Osama bin Laden.

[Jutaro]

Originally posted by bender:


The reason for the deer overpopulation is because people killed all the natural predators that prey on deer. When their guns, hee hee.

Yes, the dominate predators were removed and replaced by a the better predator. What IS your point?

[Cipher13]

Originally posted by Jutaro:


Yes, the dominate predators were removed and replaced by a the better predator. What IS your point?

A predator so fierce that it will control nature at will... scary.

[bender]

Originally posted by Cipher13:


A predator so fierce that it will control nature at will... scary.

And destroy nature at will.

Point being, some people value life and don't see it as a commodity...obviously, some people think otherwise.

[Jutaro]

Originally posted by bender:


And destroy nature at will.

Point being, some people value life and don't see it as a commodity...obviously, some people think otherwise.

And some people don't see humans as a PART of nature�

[bender]

Originally posted by Jutaro:


And some people don't see humans as a PART of nature�

Hmm... so you're saying that people can exist in a vacuum with no dependence on nature?

[Jutaro]

Originally posted by bender:


Hmm... so you're saying that people can exist in a vacuum with no dependence on nature?

I was NOT referring to myself. Many people think that we exist on this earth IN SPITE of nature. I believe that though we may have a reliance on technology and seem to be very isolated from nature, we are very much a necessary part of it.

For example, if the wolf population explodes in an area and the coyotes are killed and driven off, that is viewed as nature at work. If humans move in and kill/drive off those wolves, we are viewed as insensitive and cruel. See the discrepancy?

[bender]

Originally posted by Jutaro:


I was NOT referring to myself. Many people think that we exist on this earth IN SPITE of nature. I believe that though we may have a reliance on technology and seem to be very isolated from nature, we are very much a necessary part of it.

For example, if the wolf population explodes in an area and the coyotes are killed and driven off, that is viewed as nature at work. If humans move in and kill/drive off those wolves, we are viewed as insensitive and cruel. See the discrepancy?

Sure, makes perfect sense. Evolution will take place whether we play a part in it or not.

And as far as guns, I can understand people using them to hunt an overpopulation of deer. But it does disturb me to see people kill animals for no reason. And I don't see how guns meant to kill people -- handguns, assualt rifles, etc. -- are at all necessary in a civil society.

[Jutaro]

Originally posted by bender:


Sure, makes perfect sense. Evolution will take place whether we play a part in it or not.

And as far as guns, I can understand people using them to hunt an overpopulation of deer. But it does disturb me to see people kill animals for no reason. And I don't see how guns meant to kill people -- handguns, assualt rifles, etc. -- are at all necessary in a civil society.

Who said we were civilized? We have NEVER, as a species, gotten along with each other and we NEVER EVER will.

[simonjames]

Sad attitude - very sad

Anyways - I'm glad you guys have guns as you make a good example to the rest of the world as to what not to do.

Funny how most of the crime in Sydney (and Australia in general) seems to be a copycat from US-originated crimes.

A little fact for you all - you remember the recent mini-series on Frank Herbert's Dune? The non-American version is approximately 1 hour longer than the American version as non of the nude footage was cut but what was cut was the scene where the child hacks of the head of the Harkonnen and parades it in front of the crowd. No wonder you guys (as in Americans) have problems - you think that the murdering of someone is acceptable to be shown on teley but a set of jugs or a butt or a willy is just too damned offensive.

Sad - very sad

[Tota]

Originally posted by Ca$h68:
Hey Eskimo, guess what? even if we ban guns I could still take control of a freakign 747 with a god damn box cutter.

- Ca$h

That was you ??? Wow, how did you get out...I mean, RESPECT man!

[Logic]

Some facts from the link I posted.

Homocide rates: London 2.36 per 100 000
Vienna 1.64 per 100 000
Helsinki 2.16 per 100 000
NY 9.38 per 100 000
Washington DC 50.82 per 100 000

But one fact that I thought was interesting was that homocide rates are dropping in US but rising in EU.

Prison population: Eng&Wal 125 per 100k
Austria 85 per 100k
Finland 46 per 100k
US 682 per 100k

Homocide rates percentage rates 95-99: Eng&wal +2%, Austria -22%, Finland -3%, US - 8%

What is the reason for some of these facts? Why are so many more homocides in the US? Why are so many more in prison? Please tell me?

[Thrax]

Originally posted by BlackGriffen:
Damn it! I wanted to make fun of both libs and cons, but the conversation moved on before I could!

I'll do it anyway .

Liberals want to control your economic lives, and throw morals to the wind.

Conservatives want to control your moral lives, and throw economics to the wind.

Libertarians want to throw everything to the wind (except property laws and basic "don't hurt other people" stuff).

Totalitarians want to control everything.

They all suck.

You forgot about populists and anarchists:

Populists want to control your moral lives and your economic lives.

Anarchists want to throw everything to the wind including property laws and basic don't hurt other people stuff.

They suck too.

[Thrax]

Originally posted by Logic:
Some facts from the link I posted.

Homocide rates: London 2.36 per 100 000
Vienna 1.64 per 100 000
Helsinki 2.16 per 100 000
NY 9.38 per 100 000
Washington DC 50.82 per 100 000

But one fact that I thought was interesting was that homocide rates are dropping in US but rising in EU.

Prison population: Eng&Wal 125 per 100k
Austria 85 per 100k
Finland 46 per 100k
US 682 per 100k

Homocide rates percentage rates 95-99: Eng&wal +2%, Austria -22%, Finland -3%, US - 8%

What is the reason for some of these facts? Why are so many more homocides in the US? Why are so many more in prison? Please tell me?

More are in prison because the United States is tougher on crime than the EU. Note that our crime rates have been going down while their's has gone up.

More murders occur in the US because guns are easier to obtain here. (Never mind that homicides, especially with guns, are on the way down here and on the way up in the EU.)

If you think guns are the only piece of the crime problem, you are a naive idealist.

[BlackGriffen]

Originally posted by simonjames:
Sad attitude - very sad

Anyways - I'm glad you guys have guns as you make a good example to the rest of the world as to what not to do.

Funny how most of the crime in Sydney (and Australia in general) seems to be a copycat from US-originated crimes.

A little fact for you all - you remember the recent mini-series on Frank Herbert's Dune? The non-American version is approximately 1 hour longer than the American version as non of the nude footage was cut but what was cut was the scene where the child hacks of the head of the Harkonnen and parades it in front of the crowd. No wonder you guys (as in Americans) have problems - you think that the murdering of someone is acceptable to be shown on teley but a set of jugs or a butt or a willy is just too damned offensive.

Sad - very sad

Agreed. IMHO, there is nothing wrong with straight nudity, per se. Saw it all the time on National Geographic. Too bad they have to put "advisories" on those shows now. The legacy of those puritanical pukes is just a little too strong here for my taste.

That's off topic, though .

BlackGriffen

[Cipher13]

Originally posted by Thrax:


More are in prison because the United States is tougher on crime than the EU. Note that our crime rates have been going down while their's has gone up.

More murders occur in the US because guns are easier to obtain here. (Never mind that homicides, especially with guns, are on the way down here and on the way up in the EU.)

If you think guns are the only piece of the crime problem, you are a naive idealist.

Where did he say that "guns are the only piece of the crime problem"? Nowhere that I saw...

Now, maybe you can't see the correlation between the high homocide rate, and the high inmate numbers... perhaps that yields a better reason as to the high rate of incarceration, as opposed to simply "tougher laws".

[Logic]

I�m sorry I misread. Homocide rates are going down in EU as well. 95-99 -4%.

And can you tell me an example of where the US are tougher on criminals than the EU. I�d like some facts, please.

I don�t remember saying that guns are the only reason for homocides, but you said it yourself that:

More murders occur in the US because guns are easier to obtain here.

So maybe it isn�t such a good idea to allow civilians to use guns?!

And that the crime rates are going up in EU is partly because of there isn�t any longer western Europe and Eastern Europe. That has allowed certain problems to have easier access to EU and therefor some crime rates are going up. E.g. Drug trafficking, prostitution etc. etc.

I think we can all agree that crime rates are higher in US than EU, although we differ in opinion about the cause.