[Wardy]

Hi all. Another "which camera to buy" decision here.

I have been sniffing around the web and camera stores for a while now and would like some opinions from this site please.

I have pretty well narrowed down my purchase to either a Canon MV30i (NTSC model Optura Pi) or a Sony TRV17, which was the TRV11 replacement.

Any information I might find helpful?

I will predominantly be using it to video my kids and edit in iMovie, when I buy a new G4 :-)

I have no other camcorder tapes around and this will be my first camcorder. I expect I'll export a bit back to VHS for less-tech people to see.

Stills aren't really that important as I still use a 35mm film camera and scan any good shots in. I like the "real" photo albums, as opposed to online. But, of course, the ability to extract good stills won't be a problem!

Any input would be much appreciated. If you think you should talk me out of these models, please feel free. I notice Apple has included JVC in its compatible models page but the models don't appear on JVC's Australian site

TIA

[Marty]

I don't have experience with any of the two camcorders - but I have 2 Sony camcorders myself. I have both the TRV900 and a 4+ yrs. old PC7 - and I'm totally happy with both of them. Never had ANY problems.

IMOH Sony makes the best cameras. The only Canon I would even consider is the XL1 - and that is only because of all the nice 3rd party add-ons you can get and the x14 manual lens.

You should 100% get the Sony.


Marty

[ddiokno]

Hi Wardy,
My wife and I have two cameras, the Optura Pi and a Sony TRV 103 (digital 8). I like the size of the Canon Optura Pi because it is so small and portable. The Sony isn't huge, but it's all relative, so it is bigger and a little more akward to carry around (but it's not awful to carry around). I like the some of the features of the Sony more, such as night shot and longer optical zoom. I think in terms of video quality, there is something about the quality of the Sony that is a little nicer than the Canon, I want to say that the Sony gives a little crisper video, but am not quite sure that is the best way to describe it. But for traveling, the Canon is definitely the winner. The Digital 8 tapes are also a little cheaper and easier to find than the DV tapes. I believe all of Sony's cameras allow you to use it as an analog to video pass through, as well, if you want to transfer things from VHS tape into iMovie...
good luck,
dave

[Wardy]

Thanks for the info, Marty and Dave.

I was speaking with a camera place yesterday and they strongly recommended the Mv3iMC, which I believe is the Canon Elura2MC in the world of NTSC.

It's even smaller than the Optura Pi, so I guess Dave's point about portability comes in here.

But what about the "crispiness" of Sony over Canon? Anyone else have experience here?

TIA

[zigzag]

I have the Elura2 and couldn't be happier. Do a search in this forum and you'll find plenty of comments about it, some within the last week or two.

It all depends on your priorities - compactness or features, etc. Saying that only one Canon is worth buying is sorta pointless and misleading. I've had a repair tech tell me that they're more reliable than Sonys, but you could probably find an equal number of techs who would say otherwise.

You really can't go wrong with a Sony or a Canon - at given price points, they offer comparable quality and features. IMO you should decide by going to the store and seeing which one you like handling and using the best. Get that one unless there is some feature in another model that you can't do without.

[Wardy]

I was speaking to a guy in a camera shop about their prices etc and asking for some advice.

He said they have an iMac in-store and it works fine with Panasonic and JVC. He reckoned they were better cameras.

Anyone have any arguments to his stance?

Thanks

[IMKoRnNuts]

JVC makes some great digital camcorders. I just picked one out as my graduation present.

They all had more features than the Canon's for the price, had a better picture than both the Canons and the Sonys, and were cheaper than the Sonys.

[Feathers]

Go for the SONY. Two things against the Canons:

1) Canon uses BS "Pixel-Shift" Technology so that they can claim a similar or higher pixel resolution when in fact they're using a cheating line-doubling "trick" similar to one that FUJI use in their digital stills cameras. The SONY is higher rez, period.

2) The Canon's auto focus does this annoying hunting thing, you can be perfectly sharp and for no reason, the image will jump out and less quickly jump back into focus again, real annoying and this doesn't just apply to the budget Canon's, the XL-1 does it too, Professional my ass!

[ndpatel]

a big consideration if you're just an average videos-of-the-kids kinda guy is battery life. the elura goes for about an hour and a half to two hours on a single battery while my sony trv-10 goes for about 4 hours on the little battery and nine hours on the $75 big battery i bought.

considering that both cameras are around the same price, and offer reasonably equal image quality (the canon offers a 'frame mode' which looks pretty convincingly like film, but other than that, the sony actually has a better lens) i'd go with the sony, simply because it's great to shoot all day without even thinking about battery life.

if the canon is significantly cheaper, see if the cost of a few extra batteries eats up the difference, because you'll end up buying at least one or two extras.

oh--one more thing. cheesy features on consumer cameras are pretty useless, especially if you're just going to edit on the mac. better to shoot everything is sharp color, and then add blur filters or what-have-you after the fact. you can always eliminate information, but you can't get it back. so don't let some goofball feature like animated titles or old-fashioned film look sway your decision--you can do it all better later, and you get to change your mind if it looks bad.

[Cake]

I was also torn between the Elura and various Sony models, but I got a job last week with Sony, so......

On the Sony lot they have the Sony Family Store and employees can get pretty good deals, so I'm either getting the DCR-PC110 (love the small size) or the DCR-TRV900 (great picture quality with this 3 chip camera).

Good luck with your decision. I don't think that you can go wrong with either the Canon or the Sony.

[opallaser]

Whatever you buy you will be happy with. Both Canon and Sony make fantastic cameras. The nonsense above about Canon cameras shouldn't pu you off. Having used an XL1 a GL1 and a sony PD150a i can say that if i had my choice (which i did - i own one) it would be an XL1. It delivers fantastic images and Canon also has the ability to shoot a somewhat realistic progressive scan mode unlike Sony.

That aside. As i said both Canon and Sony cameras are very high quality and whichever one you choose will offer fantastic performance.

[ndpatel]

Originally posted by opallaser:
<STRONG>Whatever you buy you will be happy with. Both Canon and Sony make fantastic cameras. The nonsense above about Canon cameras shouldn't pu you off. Having used an XL1 a GL1 and a sony PD150a i can say that if i had my choice (which i did - i own one) it would be an XL1. It delivers fantastic images and Canon also has the ability to shoot a somewhat realistic progressive scan mode unlike Sony.

That aside. As i said both Canon and Sony cameras are very high quality and whichever one you choose will offer fantastic performance.</STRONG>

i think the issue here is that he's looking for a consumer-grade camera, as his choices are the optura pi and the trv-17.

for light work, you can't beat a sony, both for image quality and the stamina. for heavier, more 'serious' work, we exclusively use a canon GL1, which offers both the fantastic progressive-scan mode ('frame mode' as canon bills it) and 3ccd megapixel resolution. (the only major difference between the GL1 and the XL1 is the ability to change the XL1's lenses, as i understand it)

anyway, yeah, both the canon and the sony will do everything you want them to do superbly and without complaint.

oh, and opallaser-- i like your sig.

[ndpatel]

edit: double post

[ 06-05-2001: Message edited by: ndpatel ]

[Wardy]

Thanks for all the replies

As fate would have it, today I decided to go into town and buy a camera. I didn't read all the pro-Sony posts until just now.

I did indeed narrow it down to the TRV17 and the MV30i (Optura Pi in NTSC) and went for the Canon.

After trying to absorb loads too much knowledge my wife took over the final choice and we liked the feel on the Canon better. The TRV17 (although I'm not casteing dispursions on it at all) just didn't feel as nice to hold.

My stubby thumb couldn't really reach the control properly and we didn't like the distribution of buttons all over the place. I really did like both these cameras.

I think it boils down to personal choice. I didn't think the memory stick and memory mode was important to me but thought optical stabilisation was something more useful etc etc

But it really was a wife-involved in-store experience which clinched it.

Now, to have a play......
(i'll be able to test low-light mode - it's 1am here!)

Thanks again

[Wardy]

"Feathers"

The Canon's auto focus does this annoying hunting thing, you can be perfectly sharp and for no reason, the image will jump out and less quickly jump back into focus again, real annoying and this doesn't just apply to the budget Canon's, the XL-1 does it too, Professional my ass!

I don't know about the pixel rating stuff but I have noticed the auto focus shifting you mentioned.

It happens when I zoom right in on something plain but not on other more "obvious" looking subjects.

Is this purely a Canon problem or a general auto focus shortcoming?