[Kevin]

Originally Posted by KarlG 

That's exactly what I was saying, but Kevin know people who love domestics, so we're wrong.

That is a bit simplistic explanation of what I said Karl. Why the spin?

Again, apples to oranges. And it wasn't just me that claims you are wrong.

Good news is, MacNN will probably be around in the next 5 - 10 years.

 

BTW I usually buy Japanese made guitars over US made ones simply because they are just about as good of quality while being cheaper, so this isn't me being "rah rah" USA)

[OldManMac]

Originally Posted by Railroader 

Is this your way of retracting your use of the words "exclusive domain"? A bit wordy, don't you think?


Nerve. Touched.

No, it was an explanation.

The "nerve touched" was in response to your comment to me, stating that you thought I would be quite ignorant in thinking that I might have believed that Americans had a lock on the luxury car market. Don't intimate a lack of intelligence on others, just because they may disagree with you, and you might find that they would extend the same courtesy to you.

[Laminar]

Originally Posted by KarlG 

That's exactly what I was saying, but Kevin know people who love domestics, so we're wrong.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I interpreted it as southerners saying that a Ford wasn't a pickup not in defense of imports, but in defense of other domestic brands.

[nonhuman]

Originally Posted by Kevin 

I am not saying they wont enter the market. I am saying them dominating it simply wont happen in the next 5 to 10 years.

The next 5 to 10 years is a pretty limited timeframe. Japanese companies, in general, operate on a much long timeframe. This is one of the reasons they've been so successful in general, and against American companies specifically.

When Japanese companies enter the truck market (as they already have) they won't do it expected to dominate the market within 10 years. They may not even expect for that segment to be profitable within 10 years. But they will have long term goals, and they'll have the patience to see them through.

[OreoCookie]

Originally Posted by Kevin 

Again this market is different from those..

Not really. Same thing.

Originally Posted by Kevin 

In order to even MAKE it into the market they are going to have to offer something not offered by the other three.

No, they just have to offer the same thing with higher quality for a good price. That's what they're good at. They'll start by imitation and then improve. If they need to break hesitation, they can do what they have done for decades now: build the trucks in the US, creating jobs in the US.

Originally Posted by Kevin 

I am not saying they wont enter the market. I am saying them dominating it simply wont happen in the next 5 to 10 years.

The Japanese think on a different timescale.

[OreoCookie]

Originally Posted by Laminar 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I interpreted it as southerners saying that a Ford wasn't a pickup not in defense of imports, but in defense of other domestic brands.

No, it meant that `Southerners don't drive Fords because that's what Yankees drive.' It was an anecdote that was supposed to show that those truck owners Kevin speaks of are very loyal to their brand and that their `discrimination' extends to other national brands, too.

(My hostmom has since sold her Explorer a few years ago and went for a more fuel-efficient car, though.)

[Laminar]

Originally Posted by OreoCookie 

No, it meant that `Southerners don't drive Fords because that's what Yankees drive.' It was an anecdote that was supposed to show that those truck owners Kevin speaks of are very loyal to their brand and that their `discrimination' extends to other national brands, too.

Yeah, that's what I was trying to say. Unfortunately, a lack of sleep has shot apart any hope of me being very coherent today.

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by KarlG 

No, it was an explanation.

No, it was you spinning. You said "exclusive domain" and you were wrong. Be a man and admit it. Or learn to use the correct words.

Originally Posted by KarlG 

The "nerve touched" was in response to your comment to me, stating that you thought I would be quite ignorant in thinking that I might have believed that Americans had a lock on the luxury car market. Don't intimate a lack of intelligence on others, just because they may disagree with you, and you might find that they would extend the same courtesy to you.

You say something stupid like "exclusive domain" and I will call you on it. You didn't like having someone point out your mistake so you went on a tangent implying that I thought I knew more than anyone simply because I worked at GM. You put words into my mouth and detract from the issue. Again, you make assumptions and make more mistakes. Keep talking.

[sek929]

Originally Posted by Dakarʒ 

Snatch.

Nothing gets by you!

[Dakarʒ]

One of the greatest movies ever.

[sek929]

Well well, Kevin speculated something!

How novel!

This is my current truck



Wait a minute! A GMC! Noooooooo...erm wait.

I have ALWAYS said that America makes awesome trucks. Bottom f**kin line, you picked a silly quarrel with your previous statement, and I have proved you wrong.

[sek929]

If I went out today to buy a new truck it would be a F450 or 3500HD (diesel of course).

In 4 years when I'm ready for another truck we'll see what Toyota has to offer, but the offerings from Ford and Chevy are world class vehicles.

I've driven a 2007 3500HD with the Duramax Diesel, which is quieter than most V8s mind you, and hundreds of contractors around here drive F450s. What from what I've personally seen both vehicles perform flawlessly and I've almost never heard of anything going wrong with them. My dad owns a 1997 F450, a GMC 2500 Van, and a Dodge Caravan. All vehicles work well and were made in the US...well except for the Caravan, which has countless Mitsubishi parts.

My staunch position in favor of Toyota is one of knowledge, not bias.

[sek929]

Originally Posted by nonhuman 

The next 5 to 10 years is a pretty limited timeframe. Japanese companies, in general, operate on a much long timeframe. This is one of the reasons they've been so successful in general, and against American companies specifically.

When Japanese companies enter the truck market (as they already have) they won't do it expected to dominate the market within 10 years. They may not even expect for that segment to be profitable within 10 years. But they will have long term goals, and they'll have the patience to see them through.

Bingo! 100% Correct!

Toyota didn't rise to just below the largest automaker on earth by doing anything 'quick-fix'

[analogika]

Originally Posted by Kevin 

I don't know HOW many riceboys I have seen end up selling his 4-banger to buy a domestic with a bigger engine. There is no replacement for displacement.

there is the second you're talking about six dollars per gallon.

[Dakarʒ]

Originally Posted by sek929 

Well well, Kevin speculated something!

How novel!

This is my current truck

Obviously you searched for an obscure picture of a truck, uploaded it to your hosting and posted it here.

I am not a fool.

[sek929]

I really own an Okoyama truck, that sh!t is so Japanese they only sell it on the mainland.

Death to American trucks!!!11!!

[OldManMac]

Looks like it might not take 5 or 10 years after all. Let me think; who was it that said it would take them that long to get a foothold? Hmmm..

Toyota Tundra overtakes GMC Sierra 1500 in year-to-date sales? - Autoblog

The launch of Toyota's all-new 2007 half-ton Tundra pickup has had its fair share of hiccups, but despite bumps in the road, it appears that the Japanese automaker's half-ton has become the first import pickup to overtake a domestic in year-to-date sales. According to Mike Levine at pickuptruck.com, it appears the GMC Sierra 1500 lost its #4 ranking in half-ton sales to the Tundra based on projections culled from production numbers.

[Aeternus]

Eh. >shrug< That's not a suprise. Don't think the domestics will go down without a fight though. Did you hear about Chrysler's new insane warranty? It's LIFETIME. For serious.

http://www.autoblog.com/2007/07/26/b...rain-warranty/

[Laminar]

I'm less than convinced. I feel that there's very little difference between the Sierra and Silverado and the people that will buy them. And call me up with they take a spot in the top 3. Then I'll be impressed.

[Laminar]

Originally Posted by Aeternus 

Eh. >shrug< That's not a suprise. Don't think the domestics will go down without a fight though. Did you hear about Chrysler's new insane warranty? It's LIFETIME. For serious.

BREAKING: Chrysler announces lifetime powertrain warranty! - Autoblog

While it is impressive, I think Chrysler's banking on the fact that the type of person that buys a brand new car off the lot isn't typically the type of person that keeps a car for 250,000+ miles, since the warranty only applies to the original owner.

[Aeternus]

Yeah, but still. It's a better warranty than the imports. And it's definitely an incentive to KEEP the car for a long time (instead of selling it), and keep it maintained and presentable, which will only HELP resale value. I think it's a good move. I only wish it applied to SRT models, a few years ago. I'd buy an SRT4 in a heartbeat with a warranty like that.

[OldManMac]

The average age of cars on American roads is a little over 8 years, and people are keeping their cars longer, so this will help Chrysler. You also seem to have missed the point in the article about Toyota's truck sales. You're correct that there is little difference between the Silverado and the Sierra, but for Toyota to get this far, this fast, is indeed significant. When I was a teen, the brass at GM, Ford, and Chrysler literally laughed at the small cars the Japanese were just starting to import, ridiculing them and proclaiming they would never make much of a dent in the American market, and that people who bought them were strange and odd. They stopped laughing quite some time ago, and one of the few lines they make money on is in the truck market, whereas the import brands make money on all their vehicles. If the "Big Three" (which is really a misnomer today) have to start discounting to sell trucks, you can put a fork in them, turn them over, and they're done. GM is already cutting production on its new pickups, because they're not selling as well as they hoped they would.

[Lateralus]

Originally Posted by OldManMac 

GM is already cutting production on its new pickups, because they're not selling as well as they hoped they would.

To be fair, the housing market isn't exactly helping truck sales at the moment.

As for Toyota, much of the Tundra's relative sales success can be attributed to the fact that it is the newest truck on the market. True, the Silverado/Sierra is new as well but the Ram and F-150 are both very long in the tooth. I have no doubt that Toyota will see their fight increase in difficulty when Ford and Dodge come out with their all-new models for 2009.

The Titan had a pretty strong debut as well, but it too has since faded.

[Laminar]

Originally Posted by Aeternus 

Yeah, but still. It's a better warranty than the imports. And it's definitely an incentive to KEEP the car for a long time (instead of selling it), and keep it maintained and presentable, which will only HELP resale value. I think it's a good move. I only wish it applied to SRT models, a few years ago. I'd buy an SRT4 in a heartbeat with a warranty like that.

Really? New cars lose like 10% of their value right off the lot, which would be around $2000 for a new SRT-4.

[Aeternus]

Originally Posted by Laminar 

Really? New cars lose like 10% of their value right off the lot, which would be around $2000 for a new SRT-4.

Yeah, but you could keep it FOREVER.

[OldManMac]

Originally Posted by Lateralus 

To be fair, the housing market isn't exactly helping truck sales at the moment.

As for Toyota, much of the Tundra's relative sales success can be attributed to the fact that it is the newest truck on the market. True, the Silverado/Sierra is new as well but the Ram and F-150 are both very long in the tooth. I have no doubt that Toyota will see their fight increase in difficulty when Ford and Dodge come out with their all-new models for 2009.

The Titan had a pretty strong debut as well, but it too has since faded.

Actually, the Tundra started off with very slow sales, and is in fact improving. I'm aware that the housing market has something to do with truck sales (and is probably going to lead to a recession soon, but that's another story), but my point, which is valid, is that Toyota shouldn't be counted out in grabbing more of the U. S. pickup market, sooner than some people thought they would.

[PBG4 User]

Originally Posted by Aeternus 

Eh. >shrug< That's not a suprise. Don't think the domestics will go down without a fight though. Did you hear about Chrysler's new insane warranty? It's LIFETIME. For serious.

BREAKING: Chrysler announces lifetime powertrain warranty! - Autoblog

I saw their new commercial on TV last night. Very impressive, IMO, especially after they offered the 7/70 transferable warranty in '03 only to stop once the '04 models came out and reverting back to their (IMO anemic) 3/36 warranty.

[davesimondotcom]

I'm not sure I like going back to the old logo. Reminds me of the days of K cars.

Meanwhile, the 300 is the best looking front end on the road right now.

[sek929]

I consider the Sierra and the 1500 to be the same and should be totaled together seeing as they are the same vehicle.

But Toyota will never win, because fanbois like me (who own foreign trucks of course) greatly exaggerate their ability....according to Kevin.

[xi_hyperon]

Originally Posted by davesimondotcom 

I'm not sure I like going back to the old logo. Reminds me of the days of K cars.

It's funny you posted this - when I saw news of the old logo's return, the K car is precisely what came to my mind.

[Aeternus]

Dunno what you guys are smoking, but my 1997 Dodge Neon had the pentastar logo on it.

[Jim Paradise]

Originally Posted by Aeternus 

Dunno what you guys are smoking, but my 1997 Dodge Neon had the pentastar logo on it.

Even so, I think the old logo still mainly reminds people of the 80s and K-cars, which isn't exactly a hip image.

[Aeternus]

Meh. Maybe Chrysler will buy the rights to the next Bruickheimer 1980s Cartoon movie and pay to have their **** in EVERY SINGLE SCENE, with big flashing pentastars for transitions. That might work. ****ing GM.

[sek929]

Like that outrageous GM filled highway scene in Matrix Reloaded. I think the semis and the Ducati were the only non-GM products.

[xi_hyperon]

Originally Posted by Aeternus 

Dunno what you guys are smoking, but my 1997 Dodge Neon had the pentastar logo on it.

Hmm, maybe I am smoking something. Was that logo (in '97) used only for Dodge, or was it used for Chrysler as well? When did Chrysler start using the vintage-looking logo w/wings? I no longer remember. Anyway, the logo makes me think of the K-car, and subsequently the X-car. Anybody remember which of the big three came out with the x-car, and what models were derived from it? The same company also came out with models derived from what was called the j-car (Yeah, I'm old, and still have all the motor trend mags from the early 80s )

[Buckaroo]

I'm not normally a Dodge fan. In fact, back in 1978, while looking for a Van, I looked at Dodge, Chevy and Ford before I decided on an E100 or 150, I don't recall (Ford of course). I was very happy with it. The Dodge Van was way to cramped up front for the driver. Anyhow, lately I purchased a mini RV with a Dodge Sprinter Chassy. One characteristic that I really liked and looked forward too was the 5 Cylinder Mercedes diesel. I get 18 mpg with that thing. It is great. From what I understand, the chassy is actually made by Freightliner.

[OreoCookie]

The Sprinter is basically identical to the previous generation of VW's and Mercedes' Sprinter. It's quite fast, so fast that they're thinking of limiting it to 75 mph (it will run 100+ mph, but if you have up to 3 tons of cargo in your back, that's not really a good idea).

[OldManMac]

Originally Posted by xi_hyperon 

Hmm, maybe I am smoking something. Was that logo (in '97) used only for Dodge, or was it used for Chrysler as well? When did Chrysler start using the vintage-looking logo w/wings? I no longer remember. Anyway, the logo makes me think of the K-car, and subsequently the X-car. Anybody remember which of the big three came out with the x-car, and what models were derived from it? The same company also came out with models derived from what was called the j-car (Yeah, I'm old, and still have all the motor trend mags from the early 80s )

Ah yes, the X-cars. A friend had a Chevy Citation, in which I rode every other day for a couple of years, as we car pooled. Perhaps I remember it because it was a piece of junk, although he also owned a Chevette which, remarkably, he kept for 3 years, and put almost 180,000 miles on (he drove 85 miles one way). I can still remember how awfully uncomfortable that car was to ride in, for 120 miles/day, every other day!

[OldManMac]

Originally Posted by Buckaroo 

From what I understand, the chassy is actually made by Freightliner.

That's correct. Freightliner is a division of Daimler, and is the largest heavy truck maker.

[analogika]

Originally Posted by OreoCookie 

The Sprinter is basically identical to the previous generation of VW's and Mercedes' Sprinter. I

Huh?

VW and Mercedes shared the chassis for this thing?

I know Citroën/Nissan/Renault/Opel all market the same van under a different name, but I'm pretty sure the VW LT series and Mercedes' Sprinter are *quite* distinct.

[Laminar]

Originally Posted by analogika 

Huh?

VW and Mercedes shared the chassis for this thing?

I know Citroën/Nissan/Renault/Opel all market the same van under a different name, but I'm pretty sure the VW LT series and Mercedes' Sprinter are *quite* distinct.

Wikipedia would beg to differ

The Mercedes-Benz Sprinter is a tall delivery van, chassis cab and minibus built by DaimlerChrysler in Düsseldorf and sold under its Mercedes-Benz, Dodge, and Freightliner brands. It was launched in Europe in 1995 to replace the famous but outdated Mercedes-Benz T1 van (dating from 1977) and in 2001 in the U.S....The body shell is also used in a joint-venture with Volkswagen who made the Volkswagen LT.

[analogika]

We're both right, apparently.

Starting with the LT2, they use the same chassis.

The original LT, which is the one I was thinking of, was built until 1996 - the co-operation between Mercedes and VW started in '95 if I read the quickly googled sources correctly.

[OldManMac]

Well, we can kiss Chrysler goodbye. Bob Nardelli, who misread the home building supplies market and tried to partially remake Home Depot into a contractor supply store, and was dumped, with a $270 million golden parachute, is now the new Chairman/CEO of Chrysler!!! He left Home Depot after five years of a stagnant stock price, and this is his reward! Amazing.

BREAKING: Former Home Depot chief Bob Nardelli to be Chrysler's new CEO - Autoblog

[Aeternus]

Originally Posted by Buckaroo 

From what I understand, the chassy is actually made by Freightliner.

chassis.

[Art Vandelay]

Just to clarify for some...

This new logo is only for Chrysler LLC.



Chrysler cars and trucks will still use the current logo.

[residentEvil]

Originally Posted by Art Vandelay 

Just to clarify for some...

This new logo is only for Chrysler LLC.



Chrysler cars and trucks will still use the current logo.

that is what all the marketing stuff i just got today would imply too. 3 mailers on the same thing. no wonder my durango cost so much!

[BrunoBruin]

Originally Posted by xi_hyperon 

Hmm, maybe I am smoking something. Was that logo (in '97) used only for Dodge, or was it used for Chrysler as well?

I believe for a while all the divisions used it as their sole vehicle badging. Eventually (late 1990s?) Dodge adopted its Ram logo, Plymouth brought out a sailboat and Chrysler went with their county-fair ribbon.

Originally Posted by xi_hyperon 

Anybody remember which of the big three came out with the x-car, and what models were derived from it?

I had Buick's version of the X-car, a 1980 Skylark. That car was a tank - I never had so much as a hiccup in six years, and that included Minnesota winters. I still remember looking at it at the dealership - they had three of them, all absolutely stripped. Four-cylinder Iron Duke, four-speed manual transmission, AM radio, bench seat (but with a fold-down armrest!). It was actually kind of tough to let it go; if it had had air conditioning, I might have kept it longer.

[analogika]

Originally Posted by Aeternus 

chassis.

That's French.

You won't catch Buckaroo using one of them Socialist-crap words.

"Chassy" it is - all-American.

[Aeternus]

Originally Posted by analogika 

That's French.

You won't catch Buckaroo using one of them Socialist-crap words.

"Chassy" it is - all-American.

I wonder if Buckaroo's car has 'breaks' too.