[driven]

How much of a noticable speed difference is there between the 867 and the Dual 800's? (Under OSX)

[solitere]

Originally posted by driven:
<STRONG>How much of a noticable speed difference is there between the 867 and the Dual 800's? (Under OSX)</STRONG>

I�m not really the right person to say (i just ordered my G4 867 today), but after looking for info at sites like http://www.macspeedzone.com/ or http://www.xlr8yourmac.com/ it�s looks like the 867 model is faster in applications that are not Multiprocessing Avere. The Dual G4 is faster in apps that can handle 2 CPU:s. Like Final Cut Pro, and some 3D rendering apps. And of course Mac OSX.

I would like to hear myself opinions by macnn forum readers about their expericance of the G4 867 Quicksilver model.

[malson]

You can always have the best of both worlds: a dual 867

I've recently moved into OSX exclusively. It flies on my machine. I am very happy with the performance. Apps are snappy and everything works like a dream.

[Anand]

The thing about the DP machines is what you can't really measure but will know when you use one. It is the responsiveness under situations when the machine is taxed. Push your system to the limit (in OS X of course) and then try to do something. One the SP machine it will seem sluggish but on the DP machine it will be just like normal. Believe me, if you can get a DP machine - do it!

[driven]

Let me ask it this way:

If you are planning on using the box exclusively in OS X for an everyday box ... (Doing just about everything under the sun on it at one point or another) is the DP worth the extra expense?

Also: HOW did you get a Dual 867? Overclocking?

Originally posted by driven:
<STRONG>Let me ask it this way:

If you are planning on using the box exclusively in OS X for an everyday box ... (Doing just about everything under the sun on it at one point or another) is the DP worth the extra expense?
</STRONG>

If you can afford it, I'd say yes if you plan on doing CPU-intensive tasks. If you only plan to write email, surf the web, and play games, I'd say go for the 867.

Finally, if you don't need it right away, wait for new machines.

[driven]

Originally posted by hayesk:
<STRONG>

If you can afford it, I'd say yes if you plan on doing CPU-intensive tasks. If you only plan to write email, surf the web, and play games, I'd say go for the 867.

Finally, if you don't need it right away, wait for new machines.</STRONG>

With the last sentence being the most important!
Yeah ... I'll wait it out ....

(It'll give me a chance to pick up that digital video camera!)

[Hydra]

I have a DP800 and love it. I use OSX almost 99% of the time and OSX really seems to shine on a dual machine. I get a kick out of watching the up and down of the Twin Tower-like bars of the CPU monitor that I leave running in the dock. As far as everyday performance goes I think the duals help in ways that are not always apparent. The first time I was truly floored by the dual was while using Final Cut Pro 3 to render a large chroma-key sequence for about a half hour while I surfed the web in OmniWeb. It was incredible not having to wait to use my machine until it was done rendering. It is true that FCP 3 is multi-processor aware but you don't really need to have that in an app (it sure does help though) to really appreciate the power of duals. If you run two non multi-processor apps at once your machine will stay much more responsive and not bog down.

I would agree with others her to wait however. I am not one of the "wait and see what comes out in the future" crowd but the timing is right for a big update. I know they are just rumors but simple logic would dictate that Apple will be updating the Powermacs soon - the iMacs are too good to not improve the towers really soon. Who knows duals may become standard - why kick yourself later.

Jerry C.

[driven]

Originally posted by Hydra:
<STRONG>I have a DP800 and love it. I use OSX almost 99% of the time and OSX really seems to shine on a dual machine. I get a kick out of watching the up and down of the Twin Tower-like bars of the CPU monitor that I leave running in the dock. As far as everyday performance goes I think the duals help in ways that are not always apparent. The first time I was truly floored by the dual was while using Final Cut Pro 3 to render a large chroma-key sequence for about a half hour while I surfed the web in OmniWeb. It was incredible not having to wait to use my machine until it was done rendering. It is true that FCP 3 is multi-processor aware but you don't really need to have that in an app (it sure does help though) to really appreciate the power of duals. If you run two non multi-processor apps at once your machine will stay much more responsive and not bog down.

I would agree with others her to wait however. I am not one of the "wait and see what comes out in the future" crowd but the timing is right for a big update. I know they are just rumors but simple logic would dictate that Apple will be updating the Powermacs soon - the iMacs are too good to not improve the towers really soon. Who knows duals may become standard - why kick yourself later.

Jerry C.</STRONG>

Agreed .... (although I did buy a 17" Apple LCD in December at retail price. I figure even if they change it, HOW MUCH are they going to change an LCD ... I'll still enjoy it.) &lt;&lt;-- Best present I ever bought myself!

[real]

If you can afford the DP machine do it that is the future. I'd get one I have one And i love it it runns great in OS X. Everything runns better.
REAL

[train]

The Dual 800s are nice - no doubt about it. But being the "top-of-the-line" model, it has a price premium. As with most big purchases, it might be a "smarter" purchase to get the middle or low end systems as you'll probably get 'more bang for the buck' out of them. The question comes down to whether or not it is worth the money _TO YOU_, for what _you'll_ be doing with it.
I went with the 867 because the extra $800 or so was hard to justify for me . I put that money towards a 17" LCD instead, but you could also put it towards upgrading your system in a couple years. That's about half the price of a low end tower, which in a year or so may blow all of them out of the water anyway.

I do wish apple would just use dual-ready boards in all the computers even if they only ship with 1, that way, more processors could be added down the road for a simple upgrade when they're cheap! They most likely won't though since upgrades = less "replacement" purchases...

-train

[JoeG4]

Agreed.

I must be the luckiest person (for now) on the boards, I have a DP800 and Cinema Display

(pro speakers and isub too, of course!)

Yes, it does fly on OS X, especially because I can flood it and it still acts very responsive.. sure maybe not twice the 'power' of an 867, but it does have about twice the CPU bandwith!

more speed = faster response
More bandwith = More crap it can take at high speed

Plus you have 2 L1, L2, L3 caches, 2 altivec units, 2 of everything

What I love is how it has a dual Geforce card. lol, that makes it even more dualie

[JoeG4]

I almost forgot this:

Dual 867 is by buying a DP 800 card but putting two 867's on it, usually, and no it isn't worth the money.

I've heard reports of dual 1ghz possible to OC, but I want to see, if the next gen G4 can be used on the DP800's card, I might buy a set and upgrade my machine.

[bender]

I sold my SP533 last year so I could buy a DP800, and I love it. I'll never go back to a single processor for my main computer now that I use OS X. Even if you don't think you need two processors, you'll be surprised how much they improve the performance in every day use. You can run cpu-intensive applications in the background and never even notice it while you're working in something else.

I hate to repeat it, but definitely wait to see what comes out with the next update if you can. You might find a dual 800 bargain when the new ones come out.

[raferx]

Dual if you can afford it. Especially in OS X.

[derbs]

i gots me a DP800, and it totally flies - although i haven't used an 867 to compare.

However, i think the graphics card is very important in terms of how 'responsive' the machine feels, and how smoothly the OS works; a couple seconds difference in a big photoshop filter is not as noticeable.

However, i stripped out the superdrive, and downgraded the HD a bit, and got my machine for just a few hundred more than the 867 machine.

I really would recommend a geforce 3 though

[oeyvind]

Get yourself a SMP capable machine like DP800 man, SMP kick ass in Mac OS X (no joke), check out the Power of X presentation.

[MM-o4]

Well I have D800. Final Cut in 9 would take say,15mins for a 4min Dv to quicktime convert. The same settings using iMovie on the same file at the same settings is like less then 5mins! Thats some bad ass crunching!
I also agree with the tow things at once stuff. DP machines are cool, but pricey. I would wait if ya can

MM-o4

[driven]

Originally posted by oeyvind:
<STRONG>Get yourself a SMP capable machine like DP800 man, SMP kick ass in Mac OS X (no joke), check out the Power of X presentation.</STRONG>

Is it me, or are more and more QT streams now *REQUIRING* QT Pro?

[real]

was that imovie render test in OS X or in 9 just wondering

[scottiB]

From MacMinute

Apple will revise its Power Mac G4 configurations on Tuesday, January 22, or shortly thereafter, MacMinute has confirmed. Apple U.S. sources tell us three configurations will be offered: 800MHz, 933MHz, and dual-1GHz, with all models "shipping immediately." Pricing and additional specifications are unclear, although sources suggest that Apple may make the SuperDrive standard on all systems. MacUser UK, meanwhile, is also reporting that the high-end Power Mac G4 configuration will top out at dual-1GHz.

[ 01-18-2002: Message edited by: scottiB ]

[Ron Goodman]

I have a Sonnet DP 500 upgrade in my G4 and leave the CPU monitor running in the Dock all the time. Both CPUs appear to be used more or less equally, even in normal web browsing(OmniWeb), word processing, etc. The apps don't need to be multiprocessor aware, but they do need to be threaded to use both CPUs, and there are usually other tasks running which can be scheduled.

[silverlode]

It really depends on what you're doing with the machine. A lot of people in this thread are saying, "go with the DP800. It rocks on Final Cut Pro 3!!" which is all well and good, but if you're not running FCP3 (or similar apps) what's the use? I know OS X is faster, etc.

I dunno...maybe I'm just trying to justify my purchase of an 867 in late October!

My machine is blazing to me, but I came from a B/W 300MHz G3, and before that a PowerMac 6100 (60MHz 601). As you can see it usually takes me awhile to upgrade, so I am blown away when I do.

For me, the single processor is just fine, as my main number crunching comes in the form of audio recording and production. All those apps are still only available in OS 9 (no, not even in Classic mode), and 95% of them are not multi-processor aware. Heck, few of them are even Altivec enhanced....

So I chose the single processor because I figure by the time the apps make use of dual processors, it'll be time to upgrade.

Sorry for the self-indulgent post here....

[BrunoBruin]

I'd go for the dual, based solely on my own experience with a dual 450 at work. I think the reason I've been able to run Photoshop and other apps in Classic without the problems I've read about is that the processors are able to manage it.

So I chose the single processor because I figure by the time the apps make use of dual processors, it'll be time to upgrade.

My understanding is that, under OS X, it doesn't matter if the application is optimized for dual processors. The OS will assign tasks to both anyway. When I have a Photoshop file open (running in Classic), both processors are running like mad.

That being said, I would definitely wait to see if new models are introduced; there will be some sort of price drop on the current DP800s. Be aware, tho, that those are likely to be the most in demand and the first to be snapped up!

Originally posted by BrunoBruin:
<STRONG>My understanding is that, under OS X, it doesn't matter if the application is optimized for dual processors. The OS will assign tasks to both anyway. When I have a Photoshop file open (running in Classic), both processors are running like mad.</STRONG>

Close. Even under OS X, if a single application is not multithreaded, it will always run on just one processor at a time. However, MacOS X is free to assign its own processes and other running applications to the other processor.

[BrunoBruin]

Even under OS X, if a single application is not multithreaded, it will always run on just one processor at a time.

That's what I meant -- the OS dumps Photoshop, say, on one processor while the other runs your e-mail, iTunes, etc. You still get the benefit of two processors even if the app is not MP-aware. If both my processors are chugging along full-blast when I'm working in Photoshop, I can imagine that having only one would make it sluggish, which is the major complaint from people working with Classic apps.

[solitere]

I�have just ordered my 867 2 days ago (delivery in 2 weeks in scandinavia)
I�m wondering for applications like IE, Omniweb, Office, Illustrator in OS X. Are there any noticable speeddifference between the dual 800 and single 867 model in these apps!

I�don�t do videoediting and 3D just graphics art and Dtp.
- Shoeld I cancel my order?

It seems that there are lot�s of post from Dual owners here I would like to here some more experiances from owners of the 867 model - any links i should know about!

[ 01-19-2002: Message edited by: solitere ]

[JoeG4]

As I said before, the only difference is the DP800 has twice as much CPU bandwith. This means that you can run twice as many crunchers, etc, when you're doing a shitload of things, and still afford to run a nice game

Single processor normally will work faster (not just because of the fact it's 67 mhz faster, which I doubt makes a difference, but the fact that the DP has to sync more often.) howevever, running a few things will start to tax your experience.

[Jansar]

You'll notice the big difference in speed when running processor-intensive applications in Mac OS X.

[mr. burns]

i have a dual 500 with a gig of ram and it's just as snappy as any dual 800 i try out at compusa. and i get flawless itunes playback, never skips.

[ 01-20-2002: Message edited by: mr. burns ]

[Peabo]

Originally posted by solitere:
<STRONG>I�have just ordered my 867 2 days ago (delivery in 2 weeks in scandinavia)
I�m wondering for applications like IE, Omniweb, Office, Illustrator in OS X. Are there any noticable speeddifference between the dual 800 and single 867 model in these apps!

I�don�t do videoediting and 3D just graphics art and Dtp.
- Shoeld I cancel my order?

It seems that there are lot�s of post from Dual owners here I would like to here some more experiances from owners of the 867 model - any links i should know about!

[ 01-19-2002: Message edited by: solitere ]</STRONG>

Oh lord, you are going to kick yourself in the nuts when the new G4s are released next week!

[SkiBikeSki]

Sometimes 867 is better, and others it's the Dual 800. So performance is not the best way to come to an answer, so let your wallet decide for you. You can save up to $750 buy choosing the 867, assuming all other specs remain the same.

PS If you participate in Team MacNN, then go with the Dual and double your performance!