[Mallrat]

It makes me angry, because for the money, it's the best laptop apple makes, but because of the heat issue, I don't think I could buy one.

question, when I go to stores, its' usually hot as hell, I mean you could fry an egg. Not that's a bad think, since I like eggs...

anyway, I realize these are machines which are probably never turned off...

If i had a 12 inch powerbook and used it like I do my ibook.. some days when I'm home all day, I can use the computer for 16 hours... I know that's not healthy in the first place... but i'm either editing or writing... i mean i use it all the time....

I mean it's not 16 hours straight.. sometimes off and on... and i close it and go out for hours or so for lunch...

point is, when the 12 inch is in sleep, does that make it not get as hot.

It just bugs me that apple doesnt' deal with this... I mean what's the point for a laptop that you can't hold for more than a short time...

and for the people that suggest getting an external keyboard... now that's the dumbiest idea i've ever heard.. no offense... the reason I love it is for the keyboard....

sorry i'm just so very angry....

[ASIMO]

Grow thicker skin.

[bastion]

I own a 12 inch PowerBook, and I don't find it gets hot at all, except when you're charging up the power and at full utilization.

Two things I don't like about it are:
i. No DVI/ADC connection
ii. No L3 cache, therefore slower.

[BkueKanoodle]

When Charging. it does get quite warm, mine srunning at 139.6 right now. It does not get hot while in sleep though, and it cools off fairly quickly

[AssassyN]

I own a 12" PB and it's from the first batch that has the biggest heat problems, sticky trackpad, etc...even under heavy usage, I notice it's hot, but never so hot that it hurts my legs through even my thinnest shorts.

[nobitacu]

I have my Powerbook on 24/7 for the last month, it's not *bad* for it. The only time it really gets hot on one side is because the power plug is still plugged in when the power is full, so it's only hot where the plug port is. (I'm using a 17inch though but should be about the same) Besides that... it's not hot at all. Oh, and it does not fry a egg on the 12 inch heheh, MacAddict already did a test on that on one of their mag cd that came with the issue. hehehe, it doesn't get hot enough to fry it. During normal usage, my Powerbook runs at around 130 F to 135 F, that's not that bad of a temp for laptops.

Ming

[DigitalEl]

It is hot as hell sometimes, but I suppose that depends on your tolerance of heat. I usually throw a cloth over my legs when using mine for any extended period of time. The wrist rest never gets unusably hot. It's more of a small irritant than a deal breaker. The 12" PB is still a great machine and I wouldn't give mine up for anything... Well, except for that new 12" Apple's going to release Tuesday with the backlit keyboard, larger RAM capacity and built-in webcam. <ducks & runs>

[j0nkatz]

Originally posted by nobitacu:
I have my Powerbook on 24/7 for the last month, it's not *bad* for it. The only time it really gets hot on one side is because the power plug is still plugged in when the power is full, so it's only hot where the plug port is. (I'm using a 17inch though but should be about the same) Besides that... it's not hot at all. Oh, and it does not fry a egg on the 12 inch heheh, MacAddict already did a test on that on one of their mag cd that came with the issue. hehehe, it doesn't get hot enough to fry it. During normal usage, my Powerbook runs at around 130 F to 135 F, that's not that bad of a temp for laptops.

Ming

I sold my 12" to get a 17". The heat on a 17" is NOT EVEN CLOSE to being as hot as a 12'.

[amazing]

The firebook does have a heat problem, hence the nickname. Just take a look at the posts in the apple discussion forums, then compare them to the posts in the lapzilla forum. Huge difference, with hardly a mention of heat for the lapzilla. Informally, I went around to different merchants, 2 apple stores, compusa, and microcenter. Some firebooks were OK, but the one at microcenter was burning hot, and it had the battery removed!

So why are some examples plagued with heat and others OK? Apple must have some idea?

Meantime, there were rumors that the new 15" was delayed because apple was trying to deal with another heat problem. Let's hope they get it right.

[darren h]

Don't buy one if it makes you that angry and with the money you save take a course in grammar

[Crusoe]

Just get a coolpad (or something similar). I lay on my couch and program, listen to music, and or watch a DvD a feel no heat. On top of that it elevates the keyboard to a comfortably typing position and prevents if from sliding around on your lap.

[LeeG]

I have seen the 12" in 3 different stores in this area, including the King of Prussia Apple Store, and the local store in town has it on one of those lucite risers (cool pad or something like that), and ALL of them have been boiling hot, I mean really really hot, where it would be uncomfortable on your lap. I have a Wallstreet G3 - known for its ability to warm its owners thighs, and the 12" is hotter.

Don't get me wrong, I LOVE the 12", and I will order one the day they announce rev B - heat issues resolved or not, but there ARE heat issues, until I see one that isn't that hot, I can't see how people don't think there is an issue.

I understand your frustration, and recommend a lapdesk or something similar to sheild your legs...


Lee

[iWrite]

Blame Apple.

Apple values form over function instead of the other way around -- the way it should be.

[Simon]

Originally posted by iWrite:
Apple values form over function instead of the other way around -- the way it should be.

Which is why iWrite will go buy a Dell, switch to XP 100% and never ever come back here to annoy us with his mindless FUD again. Good-bye.

[fisherKing]

this is it for me too...i'm anxious to replace my pismo, and miss my old 2400c (10.4" powerbook!)

but every 12" i check out (j&r, tekserve, the apple store) is hot as hell...not okay by my standards...

i use my pismo all day, 5 days a week; music, graphics, writing, etc etc.

gets pretty warm (& i have a coolpad), but the 12" just seems too hot.


next revision? *crossing fingers*

[Keda]

Most of the people I see whinning about the heat issues on the12ers don't own one. I do and I can say that its not an issue. In fact, I just am traveling alot this month for work. Yesterday, we did 5hrs in the car. I was using my 12 for a good chunk of the time and the heat did not bother me (and yes, it was on my lap).

[Simon]

My lab has bought me a 12" that I have used a couple of times on business trips and at home. It's very nice. It certainly is warm, but it is by no means uncomfortably hot.

It gets warmer when it is plugged in clearly, but still, nowhere close to frying eggs and other stuff that has been mentioned.

I agree with Keda. If 20% of the owners say it's hot and 80% of the non-owners say it's hot, who would you believe? Right.

In fact, it's such a great PowerBook that I will buy one for myself as a private machine as soon as rev B is here.

[nica]

I have an Ibook and a 12" powerbook, I'll take the Ibook any day.

The powerbook is Hooooott!

[Mallrat]

lots of funny posts... i wrote this as crazy as I could, because yeah, it's fun.

what I was really saying is I would never buy a 12 inch because of the heat issue.

For some reason, us apple people, feel the need to defend our computers like they are our own children.

It's no wonder apple probably doesn't care about the issue since everyone keeps buying them (it's their bestseller of laptops according to their websites) and defends them against anyone who says otherwise.

Simple. There is a major heat issue and no one would even put up with it, if they had choices. But most of us cant' stand PC's or the mostly windows wolrd and prefer apple.... so it's either buy a cool ibook and not be able to run the latest software or buy the 12 powerbook and heat up your left hand.

Maybe we should take a stand and not buy them, so they might fix the problem.

I mean I've had people at the Apple Store act like they had no idea what I was talking about when I brought it up.

and I'm like, pal, right now the thing is burning, dont' tell me all laptops do that! Because that woudl be a lie.

[TAZ]

I felt the very same way about never buying a 12" because of the heat issue. However, I have since changed my mind and am enjoying the little bugger considerably. I finally broke down and got one as an interim laptop to replace my 400Ti. Once the new Pb are announced it will be handed down to the wife and replaced with either a new 15 or 17. There is one BIG thing about making decisions about heat in a store. They are all plugged in and left to run the whole day. Mine gets hot when charging and using at the same time. When running off of battery it is fine. I have however rarely used a laptop in my lap for extended perids of time. Doesnt make a difference if its a PC, MAC or whoever. ALL laptops get hot. The Powerbooks are a even worse because of the metal skin that transfers heat very well. The solution is simple. Get a lapdesk if youre using it a lot and dont have access to a desk. Cheap, simple and a heck of a lot more comfy than trying to balance the thing on your thigh. For the occasional lap use it works fine and doesnt get too hot. You can also turn the processor down if you know you will be stuck with having to do the lap balancing act.

[Mallrat]

Originally posted by TAZ:
I felt the very same way about never buying a 12" because of the heat issue. However, I have since changed my mind and am enjoying the little bugger considerably. I finally broke down and got one as an interim laptop to replace my 400Ti. Once the new Pb are announced it will be handed down to the wife and replaced with either a new 15 or 17. There is one BIG thing about making decisions about heat in a store. They are all plugged in and left to run the whole day. Mine gets hot when charging and using at the same time. When running off of battery it is fine. I have however rarely used a laptop in my lap for extended perids of time. Doesnt make a difference if its a PC, MAC or whoever. ALL laptops get hot. The Powerbooks are a even worse because of the metal skin that transfers heat very well. The solution is simple. Get a lapdesk if youre using it a lot and dont have access to a desk. Cheap, simple and a heck of a lot more comfy than trying to balance the thing on your thigh. For the occasional lap use it works fine and doesnt get too hot. You can also turn the processor down if you know you will be stuck with having to do the lap balancing act.

actually i'm not worried about really using it on my lap... i have an ibook now because i like typing on it and the space issues not because i like using it on my lap.

In other words, I kept the little dude on my desk.

But even with the 12inch on a desk, won't it still get very hot while typing?

how long does it take to get too hot to use.. at least on your lap? 2 hours?

[juanpacolopez]

Originally posted by iWrite:
Blame Apple.

Apple values form over function instead of the other way around -- the way it should be.

Why do you still post here so often iWrite?

You very obviously hate Apple these days.

[bcoutlander]

I have to admit I didn't get my 12" pb until June because I was also concerned about the "heat" issue. I finally went ahead and ordered it and haven't looked back.

I must have higher tolerance for heat than most, because I put my pb on my lap when I sit out on my porch and do work; it does not burn me at all. Actually, it does not feel any hotter than my Dell Inpsiron used to get.

[LfGrdMike]

I just got my 12 inch powerbook, and their are absolutely no rev a issues with it. The heat if anything is just warm its not hot. You also need to expect this from a powerbook of this size. In no way whatsoever is it even CLOSE to being uncomfortable. Furthermore I don't have the sticky track pad, or any of those other issues people claim. So if I were you I wouldn't worry about it.

If these issues did exist which some people say they do. They definitely are not in the ones that apple is currently shipping.

[LfGrdMike]

iWrite im sorry but you are the biggest dumb *** I have ever met. Your posts are just full of trash talk, get the heck off these forums no one wants you here. I have had no problems with the function of my laptop. Everything about my 12 is superior to my friends toshiba, and my other friends dell. So don't even give me that garbage.

Go use your crappy PC and leave us alone.

G*D

I imagine if you burn a DVD it could get hot, but I have run games on it, without any problems. It just is warm thats all. You c the case kind of disperses the heat, and that is what its designed to do. Trust me they arent going to make something that will kill you. I am going to burn a CD on it today and experiment more, but so far it is not uncomfortable at all. I would say its not really a matter of how long you are using it before it gets warmer, but its what you do. Maybe someone on here with a superdrive will tell ya how warm it gets when you burn a DVD. Still like i Said it is not uncomfortable. At least on the models they are shipping now.

[djjava]

Originally posted by LfGrdMike:
iWrite im sorry but you are the biggest dumb *** I have ever met. Your posts are just full of trash talk, get the heck off these forums no one wants you here. I have had no problems with the function of my laptop. Everything about my 12 is superior to my friends toshiba, and my other friends dell. So don't even give me that garbage.

Go use your crappy PC and leave us alone.

G*D

Go LfGrdMike!

anyone who is critical of the new powerbooks.... needs their head examined.. if we all thought like you... Apple would not have made it through the 80s. I love my 17" PB.... best machine I ever owned.

GET OVER IT!!!

[Earth Mk. II]

You have to realize that the aluminum case is going to dissipate heat into whatever is touching it - the desk, air, your hands, you lap - whatever. So, you have to expect it to get warm. After all, Al is a pretty good conductor.

That said, for at long as I've owned my 12" I haven't had any issues with the amount of heat it produced.

I've even took it into the bathroom with me (I was in the groove with some CS homework and didn't want to break my concentration) and used it directly on my lap (being careful to avoid um... any sensitive areas, of course). Compile -> debug -> compile -> bebug -> flush -> compile... it defiantly got warm, but it was never got burning hot or even uncomfortable. Of course, I'm also a former boy scout and therefore a pyro.

Perhaps I've said too much, but I think you get my point, the heat issue is largely over-dramatized. As a standard disclaimer: YMMV, of course.

[TAZ]

But even with the 12inch on a desk, won't it still get very hot while typing?

how long does it take to get too hot to use.. at least on your lap? 2 hours? [/QUOTE]

If you have it plugged in it will take maybe 30-45 minutes before you notice that it is warm. Its not uncomfortable or anything like that. I have had mine up and running off the adapter for well over 2 hours while it was charging and I was tinkering with rendering an image with Maya and it got toasty. Again still useable but you could tell it was getting up there. If you press your hand onto the metal right next to the adapter plug you will get uncomfy after a while. What I tend to do is plug it in and as soon as the battery registers full charge I unplug and drain the battery then repeat as neccessary. So far it hasnt gotten too hot to use, even with the processor turned up to full blast, rendering in Maya and the adapter plugged in. Its not like you are going to sit and let the thing run off of the power adapter for 12-16 hours/day, which is what happens at the stores. It is definitely warmer than my Gen 1 Ti400, my wifes iBook and the old ThinkPad I had. I think that the heat generation isnt abnormal, just the heat transfer due to the metal skin. The very reason why it is possible for Apple to make the 15 and 17 be as thin as they are and the 12 be able to sport a G4 is why it gets hot.

[HotSoup]

Originally posted by ASIMO:
Grow thicker skin.

I know you were being stupid but... wouldn't his skin just burn off from the heat? So no sire, that is not the solution.

[bobpensik]

Well if you decide not to buy a firebook because of the heat issue then you are missing out on an amazing computer!! i mean i just got mine and i am a switcher, and i can't believe how amazing this little baby is!! i am so amazed and i knew that it was going to get hot and i was prepared for that!! it is a small thing to worry about.

And yes it does get warm like all the other owners have said but like them it doesn't bother me in the least! when i use it at home i use the icurve which is great and it puts it at eye level as well, and when it is on my lap, i turn down to reduced processor performance and lower the brightness of the screen, thus getting more battery life and less heat!

This thing really rocks tho, i can't say enough good things about my wonderful Penelope (Yes i named her :-))

[kennedy]

And you guys haven't even mentioned the other problem... I knew my knew PB12 was going to be toasty at times... but I wasn't expecting it to be soooo damned cold at times. I get cramps in my hands/wrists from it being so cold after I just woke it up. I've been trying to figure out how to get it to wake itself up an hour before I get up so that its warmed up before I get there. Oh, and then when I am out and about... the thing is ice cold. I can't even imagine how cold the damn thing will be this winter.

Who's stupid idea was it to put an all-aluminum HEAT-SUPER-CONDUCTING case on their PowerBooks anyway???









Seriously, the aluminum case moves heat... it feels hotter or colder because of it... but other than the soothing warmth in my hands all day, I don't see the issue. Sure, its a bit surprising (both on the hot side and the cold side)... and maybe even alarming to someone not expecting it... but its really no big deal. Less hot would be better... but every computer has its good points and its bad points. The heat is a pretty minor bad point.

[Mike Pither]

There seem to be a lot of people here saying the 12"pb is not really hot at all and a few saying it is very hot. Since I don't believe that many people have a strong motive to lie I am beginning to think that some must get hot and some not for some reason.

A couple of weeks ago I walked into a computer store near me on a hot August afternoon where there was a 12" pb, a 15" pb (Titanium) and a 17" pb. They were all switched on and running the same shop publicity screen saver, They were sitting side by side on a glass shelf which had a strip light under it which was also obviously heating them up more than normal. I rested both of my hands on the 17" and started typing to see what the keyboard felt like and to see if the touch pad gets in the way as some have suggested, I remember noting that the aluminium was slightly warm but nothing more. I then started to do the same on the 12" but only for a split second, I swear, it felt like it had burnt my left hand. I touched it again and it was clear that the right side of it was quite a bit hotter than the 17" while the left was so hot that the only way to type with my left hand was to keep it hovering in the air and not touching the metal.

I am not exaggerating my experience here, but nor do I believe that it can be typical. In my case the pbs were clearly receiving extra heating from the strip light and it also (at least to me) seems that for some reason, some and maybe not many seem to get much hotter than others.

I would still buy one but only if I could try it first to make sure I wasn't getting a "hot one"

[kennedy]

Originally posted by Mike Pither:
I then started to do the same on the 12" but only for a split second, I swear, it felt like it had burnt my left hand.

Yes, it can be very surprising... however, once you get past the surprise (in a normal situation), you realize that its toasty warm but not scalding hot. Right now, each time I start typing, its surprisingly cold. Al does that.

However, your situation I suspect was not normal... strip lights can truly get scalding hot... and the PB's aluminum case makes a great heat sink... it could truly have been dangerous.

The heat has everything to do with what you're doing with the PB... when I was ripping all my CDs in while doing other work, my DVD player was going non-stop as was my hard drive... it was damn hot. I still rested my hand on their for long periods of time... and I suspect the heat reduced my hand fatigue

Right now, as I type this, I haven't hit the disk or superdrive in hours, the thing is darn cold... hope I don't cramp up j/k

[LfGrdMike]

Well I have a high pain threshold ROTFL.

Ok on a more serious note I honestly can say it gets warm, but like I said before. This could depend on what you do with your powerbook. I don't think its a good idea to keep draining the batter to keep it from getting to hot, why well because if it melted apple would have to replace it. You at least have a 1 year warranty and it would be their defect. Also don't expect that to happen. I really think the heat issue has to do with the person too. I am a really easy going guy, and I understand that a machine as tiny as my cute little 12 inch powerbook will get rather warm. I also know that apple wont make something that will burn your outer skin off.

Also it depends on the surface you leave the book on too. For example in the user guide it states not to set it on a bed. It could overheat. Their are so many factors the list could go on.

1. What your doing
2. Configuration perhaps
3. Burning DVDs
4. Burning CDs
5. intesive programs like games and photoshop
6. Location where you set the book.

All in all I have to say with my configuration I can say that the power book doesnt get too hot for me to stand. It does get warm, but so does my friends shi*** toshiba. Actually I havent trackpadded around (my new word trackpadded hehe) With his book in a month but hey I can say as of now my powerbook stays cooler. Mines a 12 inch his is a 15 inch. I got the better one though cause mines a mac

[MrNo]

12" does get very hot if it is used for about an hour and a half or more. But it will cool itself in a matter of minutes if it is put to sleep or shout down. Having said that I just bought myself a laptop stand with two fans on it for 15$ from http://www.hardwarecooling.com and behold, all the heating problems are gone I got the aluminum one so it matches the firebook.

[Macola]

Originally posted by Mike Pither:
There seem to be a lot of people here saying the 12"pb is not really hot at all and a few saying it is very hot. Since I don't believe that many people have a strong motive to lie I am beginning to think that some must get hot and some not for some reason.

Part of the reason is that heat is a subjective issue, but it's also related to production runs. Mine is from an early production batch, and definitely fits the "frying-egg" category. I do think the problem is less severe in later production units.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally posted by iWrite:
Blame Apple.

Apple values form over function instead of the other way around -- the way it should be.

Show me another SILENT laptop of this size with comparable specs and lower temperature, and we'll talk.

I've got mine sitting on a BLANKET on a sunny day while typing this, and it is neither terribly hot, nor has the fan bothered to come on.

In fact, I can't remember when the fan came on the last time, despite my using the machine constantly.

And OF COURSE the 12" will be a lot hotter than the 17" - IT'S ****ING *HALF* THE SIZE!

(it's also half the price, mind you.)

And iWrite: unless you own a 12", you really have no idea what you're talking about. Heck, I OWN one and I have no idea what you're talking about.

There are, I believe, two laptops comparable to this machine, and neither's form integrates nearly as well with their function as my machine. (Also, neither runs Logic, so no go, anyway.)

I also find my iPod FAR more functional than any competitor, for the simple reason that I can actually USE it.

If Apple machines don't fit your user profile, then by all means don't use them. But your generalized statements of damnation are inaccurate, inappropriate, and just downright puerile.

-s*