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LeBron James Goes to the Heat...
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Eyenigma
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Jul 9, 2010, 01:48 AM
 


The guy is a great player, no doubt about it. Obviously a future hall of famer... but the whole ESPN special, the whole courtship, everyone from Obama pleading for him to go here or there... I don't know what to make of it.

NO doubt he's one of the greatest. But if we're going to ever keep future athletes humble and grounded in their expectations of being a professional athlete this isn't the way to do it. It used to be simply about "getting paper." Now it's about coercing an entire network to give you a time slot to simply make a career decision. Vain doesn't quite sum it up.

I guess regular press conferences are so not 'gangsta' anymore.
     
ShortcutToMoncton
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Jul 9, 2010, 06:46 AM
 
Oh. You mean he's black, so he must want to be 'gangsta'?

Is that it? Is that what that reference was about.

Cool I didn't know that
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rickey939
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Jul 9, 2010, 08:35 AM
 
You mean LeBron James isn't a Cavalier anymore? I thought he was a lifer. Why the Heat? Who do they have?
     
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Jul 9, 2010, 09:01 AM
 
Yay, it's over!

"One ticket to Washington, please. I have a date with destiny."
     
Ghoser777
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Jul 9, 2010, 09:41 AM
 
"The Decision" was by the far one of the worst things I've ever seen aired by ESPN.
     
The Final Dakar
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Jul 9, 2010, 09:45 AM
 
What about Quite Frankly with Stephen A. Smith?
     
spacefreak
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Jul 9, 2010, 10:36 AM
 
I think Lebron's brand is permanently tarnished, regardless of how many rings he may win with his buddies.

Dwayne Wade is the man. He essentially loaded up his own team with some Olympians, and he managed to knock down Lebron's brand at the same time. That's the achievement of this free agency period.

In terms of lifelong legend brand status, there were only 2 logical places for Lebron: Cleveland and New York. Cleveland w/ the small-city, hometown thing, and NY for the ultimate challenge on the world's biggest stage.

I think Lebron might be a dummy who listens to his friends too much, and who is unable to truly stand alone.

Ultimately, we learned a lot about James' character. People wanted Lebron to be a legend, a warrior, someone who relishes challenges, someone who is willing to put a city on his back, win or lose. Fans hoped his heart was more like Patrick Ewing (ringless) than Robert Horry (plenty of rings playing for loaded teams).

What we have instead is a classless dude who is afraid of not winning championships.

Dwayne Wade is the man, not Lebron. It's a shame, too, because the brand value that Lebron had was very hard to screw up , yet he managed to do it to the hilt.
     
The Final Dakar
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Jul 9, 2010, 10:39 AM
 
I'd rather be Scottie Pippen than Karl Malone.
     
rickey939
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Jul 9, 2010, 11:18 AM
 
This thread sucks without more Comic Sans and CAPITALS!!!!!
     
spacefreak
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Jul 9, 2010, 11:40 AM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
I'd rather be Scottie Pippen than Karl Malone.
Pippen was dirt poor until a few weeks ago when he won a lawsuit. Guy was crying because had been so broke, unable to hustle any endorsement opportunities whatsoever. Meanwhile, Malone has gone down as a top-5 power forward of all time and still gets endorsements. He's still legendary face of the franchise.

I totally understand the older players jockeying around for rings. If Lebron was 32, his brand wouldn't have been tarnished because he would have earned a ton of respect for his noble quest.

I think that Interbrand study of Lebron's brand valuation for tenures at various franchises was spot-on.
     
The Final Dakar
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Jul 9, 2010, 11:47 AM
 
Originally Posted by spacefreak View Post
Pippen was dirt poor until a few weeks ago when he won a lawsuit. Guy was crying because had been so broke, unable to hustle any endorsement opportunities whatsoever.
Who cares about post-NBA crap? Does this affect him getting 6 rings somehow?

Originally Posted by spacefreak View Post
Meanwhile, Malone has gone down as a top-5 power forward of all time and still gets endorsements. He's still legendary face of the franchise.
And the biggest loser in playoff history. But since you care about post-NBA stuff so much, maybe we should talk about the 14 year-old he banged years ago?

Originally Posted by spacefreak View Post
I totally understand the older players jockeying around for rings. If Lebron was 32, his brand wouldn't have been tarnished because he would have earned a ton of respect for his noble quest.

I think that Interbrand study of Lebron's brand valuation for tenures at various franchises was spot-on.
I suppose LeBron does deserve the loss of respect for going to Miami if people actually "bought into his brand." For fans who give respect to and follow players based on what they do the actual court, I think earning some rings might force their hand on the subject.
     
Eyenigma  (op)
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Jul 9, 2010, 12:14 PM
 
Originally Posted by ShortcutToMoncton View Post
Oh. You mean he's black, so he must want to be 'gangsta'?
Who said -anything- about race? Certainly not me. In case you've been living under a rock one of the more popular gangster rappers is white. What I was referencing was a culture shift where athletes want to get paid first and perform second. It's sad, really.
     
Mrjinglesusa
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Jul 9, 2010, 12:41 PM
 
Sports team owners trade and release players ALL THE TIME with no regard for "loyalty". This is a business. If the owner of the Cavs thought it would benefit his team or pocketbook, he would trade LeBron in a heartbeat.

LeBron doesn't owe Ohio a damn thing. He gave them the best years their team has EVER had. He put the Cavs on the map. His contract was up and he decided to move to a different team. Get over it Ohio - he had every right to do so and he did so knowing he would leave money on the table.

You want to blame someone for the spectacle? Blame the media with their incessant fascination with where he would decide to go. If the media hadn't made this such a big deal and followed LeBron's every move, ran with every rumor, etc., it wouldn't have been such a freakin' circus.

And no, I'm not from Florida and I couldn't care less about where LeBron ended up.
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Mrjinglesusa
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Jul 9, 2010, 12:42 PM
 
Originally Posted by Eyenigma View Post
What I was referencing was a culture shift where athletes want to get paid first and perform second. It's sad, really.
You do know that LeBron would have gotten MORE money if he had stayed in Cleveland, right?
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OAW
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Jul 9, 2010, 01:15 PM
 
Originally Posted by Mrjinglesusa View Post
Sports team owners trade and release players ALL THE TIME with no regard for "loyalty". This is a business. If the owner of the Cavs thought it would benefit his team or pocketbook, he would trade LeBron in a heartbeat.

LeBron doesn't owe Ohio a damn thing. He gave them the best years their team has EVER had. He put the Cavs on the map. His contract was up and he decided to move to a different team. Get over it Ohio - he had every right to do so and he did so knowing he would leave money on the table.

You want to blame someone for the spectacle? Blame the media with their incessant fascination with where he would decide to go. If the media hadn't made this such a big deal and followed LeBron's every move, ran with every rumor, etc., it wouldn't have been such a freakin' circus.

And no, I'm not from Florida and I couldn't care less about where LeBron ended up.


OAW
     
Eug
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Jul 9, 2010, 01:16 PM
 
1. Yes, the big press thing was stupid.
2. However, if his contract was up, I see no problem with his wanting to go somewhere else. It makes sense for someone to want to win.

BTW, ignoring all this sports stuff etc, how many of you here would choose Cleveland over Miami as your primary place of residence, if you could live in either?
     
OAW
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Jul 9, 2010, 01:17 PM
 
Originally Posted by Mrjinglesusa View Post
You do know that LeBron would have gotten MORE money if he had stayed in Cleveland, right?


OAW
     
The Final Dakar
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Jul 9, 2010, 01:17 PM
 
As has been said a million times, FL has no state tax. I wouldn't be surprised if he's making more with the pay cut than he would have taking the max in OH after taxes.
     
OAW
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Jul 9, 2010, 01:28 PM
 
Originally Posted by Eug View Post
1. Yes, the big press thing was stupid.
Depends on how you look at it. Seems a lot like what people say about "negative campaign ads" to me. People claim to hate them ... but they tend to consistently respond to them. Similarly, I think a lot of sports fans are decrying the spectacle of the ESPN special ... but I bet you any kind of money that the show's ratings were through the roof!

From the perspective of Lebron James, Inc. ... it was a brilliant business decision to propose the special. The media had hyped his free agency to unprecedented levels all on its own. He simply capitalized on the opportunity for brand promotion. As the old saying goes ....

Don't hate the player ... hate the game.

OAW
     
exca1ibur
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Jul 9, 2010, 01:35 PM
 
Originally Posted by Mrjinglesusa View Post
Sports team owners trade and release players ALL THE TIME with no regard for "loyalty". This is a business. If the owner of the Cavs thought it would benefit his team or pocketbook, he would trade LeBron in a heartbeat.

LeBron doesn't owe Ohio a damn thing. He gave them the best years their team has EVER had. He put the Cavs on the map. His contract was up and he decided to move to a different team. Get over it Ohio - he had every right to do so and he did so knowing he would leave money on the table.

You want to blame someone for the spectacle? Blame the media with their incessant fascination with where he would decide to go. If the media hadn't made this such a big deal and followed LeBron's every move, ran with every rumor, etc., it wouldn't have been such a freakin' circus.

And no, I'm not from Florida and I couldn't care less about where LeBron ended up.
That was a beautiful post man. Just beautiful.
     
OAW
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Jul 9, 2010, 01:36 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
As has been said a million times, FL has no state tax. I wouldn't be surprised if he's making more with the pay cut than he would have taking the max in OH after taxes.
A huge chunk of an NBA player's money is made on the road. Pro athletes are notoriously subjected to "jock taxes". This is where states and cities strictly enforce the collection of nonresident income taxes from pro athletes while they rarely bother with anyone else. I don't think the "tax advantage" is as clear cut as one might think.

OAW
     
The Final Dakar
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Jul 9, 2010, 01:38 PM
 
Originally Posted by OAW View Post
A huge chunk of an NBA player's money is made on the road. Pro athletes are notoriously subjected to "jock taxes". This is where states and cities strictly enforce the collection of nonresident income taxes from pro athletes while they rarely bother with anyone else. I don't think the "tax advantage" is as clear cut as one might think.

OAW
Good info. Still 50% of his income is coming at home. A sizable chunk.
     
ShortcutToMoncton
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Jul 9, 2010, 01:56 PM
 
Originally Posted by spacefreak View Post
In terms of lifelong legend brand status, there were only 2 logical places for Lebron: Cleveland and New York. Cleveland w/ the small-city, hometown thing, and NY for the ultimate challenge on the world's biggest stage.
Chicago.

Chicago!

Seriously. They have the team, they still have the population and money, and they have the history. There was no other team on the market - not NY, not Cleveland, not Miami - that made as much sense as Chicago on a pro/con basis.

Sports team owners trade and release players ALL THE TIME with no regard for "loyalty". This is a business. If the owner of the Cavs thought it would benefit his team or pocketbook, he would trade LeBron in a heartbeat.

LeBron doesn't owe Ohio a damn thing. He gave them the best years their team has EVER had. He put the Cavs on the map. His contract was up and he decided to move to a different team. Get over it Ohio - he had every right to do so and he did so knowing he would leave money on the table.

You want to blame someone for the spectacle? Blame the media with their incessant fascination with where he would decide to go. If the media hadn't made this such a big deal and followed LeBron's every move, ran with every rumor, etc., it wouldn't have been such a freakin' circus.

And no, I'm not from Florida and I couldn't care less about where LeBron ended up.
People who say this seem to be completely ignoring the fact that LBJ increased the spectacle, and screwed the Cavs, by acting in the way he did.

Look, the guy's from Cleveland. I totally supported him leaving - to Chicago! - and you can say "it's just business" all you want, but he's got to be a cold sob to do it like this. You're the heir to possibly the greatest sports legend of all time - the self-proclaimed heir remember, the "Chosen 1" - and after back-to-back 60-win seasons, you quit on your team in the playoffs, don't let them know what your plans were/are, then arrange to go on national TV to announce that you're going to screw over your home town to join a super-team?

It's just so weird, to me. Way to destroy the brand, Lebron.

greg
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OAW
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Jul 9, 2010, 02:11 PM
 
Here's the thing that makes no sense to me ... especially in light of the Cavs owner's little diatribe and his declaring that the "truth will come out about Lebron" blah blah blah. If you think he "quit" on you in the playoffs ... more than once per Dan Gilbert ... then the question becomes ....

Why do you want him back so bad?

If Lebron is so "narcissistic" and "selfish" then ...

Why do you want him back so bad?

Seems to me that one's attitude towards him would be "good riddance" if that's how you truly felt about the man.

OAW
( Last edited by OAW; Jul 9, 2010 at 03:02 PM. )
     
scottiB
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Jul 9, 2010, 02:18 PM
 
Originally Posted by rickey939 View Post
This thread sucks without more Comic Sans and CAPITALS!!!!!
Comic Sans would like a word.
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ShortcutToMoncton
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Jul 10, 2010, 07:50 AM
 
Originally Posted by OAW View Post
Here's the thing that makes no sense to me ... especially in light of the Cavs owner's little diatribe and his declaring that the "truth will come out about Lebron" blah blah blah. If you think he "quit" on you in the playoffs ... more than once per Dan Gilbert ... then the question becomes ....

Why do you want him back so bad?

If Lebron is so "narcissistic" and "selfish" then ...

Why do you want him back so bad?

Seems to me that one's attitude towards him would be "good riddance" if that's how you truly felt about the man.

OAW
This logic is dumb.

Why wouldn't they want him back? Even if he did quit, he's still arguably the best player in the game. Would they rather have a quitting LeBron than nobody? Of course.

greg
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Mrjinglesusa
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Jul 11, 2010, 06:44 PM
 
Originally Posted by ShortcutToMoncton View Post
Chicago.

Chicago!

Seriously. They have the team, they still have the population and money, and they have the history. There was no other team on the market - not NY, not Cleveland, not Miami - that made as much sense as Chicago on a pro/con basis.


People who say this seem to be completely ignoring the fact that LBJ increased the spectacle, and screwed the Cavs, by acting in the way he did.

Look, the guy's from Cleveland. I totally supported him leaving - to Chicago! - and you can say "it's just business" all you want, but he's got to be a cold sob to do it like this. You're the heir to possibly the greatest sports legend of all time - the self-proclaimed heir remember, the "Chosen 1" - and after back-to-back 60-win seasons, you quit on your team in the playoffs, don't let them know what your plans were/are, then arrange to go on national TV to announce that you're going to screw over your home town to join a super-team?

It's just so weird, to me. Way to destroy the brand, Lebron.

greg
How were the Cavs "screwed"? He was no longer under contract with them.

Since when is a player playing for his hometown team required to play with them his entire career?

Again, I don't understand this idea that LeBron "screwed" the Cavs. He didn't owe them anything and he wasn't under contract with them anymore. He was free to go to ANY team in the league and could dictate his own terms.

BTW, from what I have read, the whole ESPN spectacle was orchestrated by Jim Grey/ESPN, not LeBron.
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Ghoser777
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Jul 12, 2010, 12:53 AM
 
He didn't have to go along with it.
     
exca1ibur
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Jul 12, 2010, 01:26 AM
 
Who cares? He wasn't under contract and left. It's called 'Free Agency', and it's part of todays game whether we like it or not. Get over it.
     
Mrjinglesusa
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Jul 12, 2010, 08:49 AM
 
Originally Posted by Ghoser777 View Post
He didn't have to go along with it.
No he didn't. But by going along with it, he was able to get scholarships to several Boys and Girls Clubs in multiple cities, including the cities of all the teams he met with. Yeah, he's a HORRIBLE person.
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ShortcutToMoncton
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Jul 12, 2010, 09:58 AM
 
Originally Posted by Mrjinglesusa View Post
No he didn't. But by going along with it, he was able to get scholarships to several Boys and Girls Clubs in multiple cities, including the cities of all the teams he met with. Yeah, he's a HORRIBLE person.
This is 100% the dumbest thing I've heard so far.

The man is worth over a hundred million dollars... so far. His stated goal is to be a billionaire, and there doesn't seem to be much in the way of stopping him (unless this recent debacle has some effect on his "brand".)

The Boys & Girls Club could make "up to" 2.5 million in advertising revenue. If you're willing to accept that this wasn't all about LeBron James and instead all about helping innocent kids, then you're downing the Kool-Aid in rivers my friend.

Or perhaps you take the position that without The Decision sponsored by University of Phoenix, LeBron would never have been able to get those poor kids up to 2.5 million dollars?
How were the Cavs "screwed"? He was no longer under contract with them.

Since when is a player playing for his hometown team required to play with them his entire career?

Again, I don't understand this idea that LeBron "screwed" the Cavs. He didn't owe them anything and he wasn't under contract with them anymore. He was free to go to ANY team in the league and could dictate his own terms.
You misunderstand. I wanted LeBron to leave. He was free to leave and I thought he should have went to Chicago. I think most people (outside of Cleveland) were okay with him leaving if he wanted to do so.

But if you can't see the idiocy of what he did to "screw" Cleveland over - by quitting on them in the playoffs, by not talking to them in the offseason while still publicly maintaining that they were a front-running choice, by having a lackey call them minutes before he went on his narcissistic ESPN special to say he wasn't coming back - I mean, really? How else could he have possibly screwed Cleveland any more? He even waited until most free agents were already gone before his made The Decision. He did all he could, and he made himself look like a jackass in the process.

There are classy ways to do it, you know. Especially when it involves your hometown. Ever hear of Kevin Garnett or Ray Allen? Guys that still get cheers when they go back to the teams that they just had to leave in order to start winning? There's a lot of those guys in the league. LeBron now has "Vince Carter in Toronto times one meeeeeeelllllion" status in Ohio.
BTW, from what I have read, the whole ESPN spectacle was orchestrated by Jim Grey/ESPN, not LeBron.
This information is exactly the opposite of everything I've read about The Decision. Where have you read this? Please quote me your sources.

I've heard that James' group contacted ESPN about it, and even entered into a financial arrangement to pay for at least part of the special. They also paid part or all of Jim Gray's salary.

ESPN: "LeBron's announcement coming soon"
Norby Williamson, ESPN's executive vice president for studio and remote production, said Wednesday that sportscaster Jim Gray will handle the introduction, announcement and questions. Gray was handpicked by James' team, which approached the network last week about the special, Williamson said.

Gray and James will be at the Boys & Girls Club of Greenwich, Conn., where the interview will take place, ESPN said. The broadcast also will include a long-form interview with ESPN's Michael Wilbon and others via satellite from ESPN's studios in Bristol, Conn.

Sources told ESPN The Magazine's Chris Broussard that representatives for James contacted the network, proposing the idea of a dedicated special. The sources said James' representatives requested they be allowed to sell sponsorship for the broadcast, and ESPN agreed.

"Due to the unprecedented attention and interest surrounding LeBron's decision, we have decided to make this announcement on national television," James' business manager, Maverick Carter, said on lebronjames.com. "By doing so we have generated funds that will be given to the Boys and Girls Clubs of America. LeBron has a longstanding commitment to giving back to the community, and has worked with the Boys and Girls Clubs in cities across the country."
CNBC: Team LeBron paid Jim Gray to interview LeBron James on 'The Decision' on ESPN
Jim Gray didn't ask LeBron James Thursday night about his lackluster playoff performance against the Boston Celtics. Gray didn't ask James why he didn't tell Cavaliers owner Dan Gilbert that he was leaving Cleveland before "The Decision" aired on ESPN. In fact, he didn't ask him any tough questions at all.

CNBC offers one explanation for Gray's softball questions: The former ESPN and NBC reporter was paid, according to CNBC's Web site, by the production company James and his advisers created for "The Decision."

...

"ESPN paid for his travel," ESPN spokesman Mike Soltys told the Daily News. "We are not privy to his other financial arrangements. Jim was part of a package offered by LeBron's team."
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Mrjinglesusa
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Jul 12, 2010, 11:42 AM
 
Originally Posted by ShortcutToMoncton View Post
This information is exactly the opposite of everything I've read about The Decision. Where have you read this? Please quote me your sources.
I heard it on 106.7 FM "The Fan" on either the Mike Wise Show or LaVar and Dukes. Apparently they were wrong.

1) Other than the owner of the Cavs saying he quit, what evidence can you proffer that LeBron "quit" in the playoffs? Because he had an off night in Game 5 against Boston? He game back and scored 27 points, had 19 rebounds, and 10 assists in Game 6. That doesn't look like the scoring line of someone who "quit" on his team.

2) LeBron was under no obligation whatsoever to talk to the Cavs. HE WAS A FREE AGENT. HE WAS NOT EMPLOYED BY THE CAVS ANYMORE

3) Maybe the Cavaliers were the front-running choice when he said that.

Let's say that LeBron did intentionally "screw" the Cavs. So what? Why do you care? The only people who should give a sh*t are Cavaliers fans. And maybe fans of the other teams who were in the running. Are you from Chicago, New York, or New Jersey? Are you upset he didn't choose your team? Sour grapes?

I don't understand why it matters to you (and lots of other people) so much what team LeBron chose or how he went about it.
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ShortcutToMoncton
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Jul 12, 2010, 12:39 PM
 
Originally Posted by Mrjinglesusa View Post
1) Other than the owner of the Cavs saying he quit, what evidence can you proffer that LeBron "quit" in the playoffs? Because he had an off night in Game 5 against Boston? He game back and scored 27 points, had 19 rebounds, and 10 assists in Game 6. That doesn't look like the scoring line of someone who "quit" on his team.
It's rather hard to discuss this with you when you clearly did not watch any of the games.

If you had, you would've been puzzled. Puzzled that LeBron seemed to be getting his numbers while still "floating" through the game. Puzzled by his careless turnovers (almost got the quadruple-double in that last game I think with 8 or 9 of them). Puzzled by the fact that he was completely outplayed by Rajon Rondo the entire series.

It might be legitimate to blame it on his elbow, but no one did.

I heard it on 106.7 FM "The Fan" on either the Mike Wise Show or LaVar and Dukes. Apparently they were wrong.
Apparently. I would suggest not listening to those particular stations any more, considering this was widely disseminated and discussed information well before The Decision aired.

2) LeBron was under no obligation whatsoever to talk to the Cavs. HE WAS A FREE AGENT. HE WAS NOT EMPLOYED BY THE CAVS ANYMORE
You think everyone doesn't know this?

It's not the point.
3) Maybe the Cavaliers were the front-running choice when he said that.
But apparently, they weren't. It doesn't even look like they ever were at this point. It looks like he wanted to go to Miami if he and Bosh and Wade could be on the same team. When Bosh confirmed his move, so did he.

Or are you now suggesting that despite the fact that he apparently wouldn't even talk to the Cavs management, he was still thinking about returning there? At some point, Occam's Razer has to apply.
Let's say that LeBron did intentionally "screw" the Cavs. So what? Why do you care? The only people who should give a sh*t are Cavaliers fans. And maybe fans of the other teams who were in the running. Are you from Chicago, New York, or New Jersey? Are you upset he didn't choose your team? Sour grapes?

I don't understand why it matters to you (and lots of other people) so much what team LeBron chose or how he went about it.
Uhhh... because we're sports fans?

Who cares what team Vince Carter went to after he quit on the Toronto Raptors? Who cares that the LA Lakers stole Pau Gasol for peanuts to fill out a championship roster? Who cares that Wayne Gretzky was sold to the LA Kings because his owner was cheap? Who cares that Michael Jordan was picked after Sam Bowie in the 1984 draft? Who cares that the Montreal Canadians traded the best goaltender in hockey for spare parts because he was pissed off at the coach and yelled at the team President? Who cares that Eto'o was traded to Inter Milan for Ibrahimović and then helped his new club narrowly defeat the old one in winning the Champions League? Who cares that arguably the biggest sports superstar in the world - Tiger Woods - was cheating on his hot wife and kids with no less than a dozen slutty, dirty hos?

Who cares if sports fans care about these moments when you clearly don't?

greg
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OAW
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Jul 12, 2010, 02:30 PM
 
Originally Posted by ShortcutToMoncton View Post
But if you can't see the idiocy of what he did to "screw" Cleveland over - by quitting on them in the playoffs, by not talking to them in the offseason while still publicly maintaining that they were a front-running choice, by having a lackey call them minutes before he went on his narcissistic ESPN special to say he wasn't coming back - I mean, really? How else could he have possibly screwed Cleveland any more? He even waited until most free agents were already gone before his made The Decision. He did all he could, and he made himself look like a jackass in the process.
Let's keep it real here. It would not have mattered how Lebron chose to inform the Cavaliers that he was not going to re-sign with them. Period. He could have sent an email, a fax, a carrier pigeon, or called Dan Gilbert personally. A day earlier, a month earlier, immediately after the playoffs were over for Cleveland. It would not have mattered because at the end of the day there are those who are pissed simply because he didn't re-sign. Do you really think the Cavalier fans would be like "Oh he's going to Miami? That's cool." if he had just announced his decision sooner and not on an ESPN special? Do you think Cavalier fans would be b*tching about the ESPN special if he had announced he was re-signing with Cleveland?

The problem here is that Dan Gilbert seems to have fell and bumped his head. Now he's all confused and not thinking straight because he doesn't seem to get it that he owns the Cavaliers ... and that does not translate into ownership of Lebron James.

Bottom line when it comes to all this talk of "loyalty" and "betrayal" and "not giving the Cavaliers a heads up"?

Pro sports team cut or trade players ... many of them veterans with the team ... without so much as a phone call all the time. Players and their agents quite often find out about it on ESPN like everybody else. So why is it when the team does this it's just "business" ... but when a player who's a free agent chooses to move on it's all of a sudden a sign of "disloyalty" and "betrayal"?

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Jul 12, 2010, 02:33 PM
 
the guy craves more attention than a teen girl on facebook, i havent really followed basketball since the 90s and early 00s. watching nba is like watching the slam dunk contest.
     
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Jul 12, 2010, 02:37 PM
 
Originally Posted by OAW View Post
Let's keep it real here. It would not have mattered how Lebron chose to inform the Cavaliers that he was not going to re-sign with them. Period. He could have sent an email, a fax, a carrier pigeon, or called Dan Gilbert personally. A day earlier, a month earlier, immediately after the playoffs were over for Cleveland. It would not have mattered because at the end of the day there are those who are pissed simply because he didn't re-sign. Do you really think the Cavalier fans would be like "Oh he's going to Miami? That's cool." if he had just announced his decision sooner and not on an ESPN special? Do you think Cavalier fans would be b*tching about the ESPN special if he had announced he was re-signing with Cleveland?
Originally Posted by ShortcutToMoncton View Post
You misunderstand. I wanted LeBron to leave. He was free to leave and I thought he should have went to Chicago. I think most people (outside of Cleveland) were okay with him leaving if he wanted to do so.

The problem here is that Dan Gilbert seems to have fell and bumped his head. Now he's all confused and not thinking straight because he doesn't seem to get it that he owns the Cavaliers ... and that does not translate into ownership of Lebron James.
Uhhh, what? I have no idea how you arrive at this conclusion.

So why is it when the team does this it's just "business" ... but when a player who's a free agent chooses to move on it's all of a sudden a sign of "disloyalty" and "betrayal"?
Because both of you are entirely ignoring the context of how this happened, that's why.

greg
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Jul 12, 2010, 02:42 PM
 
Originally Posted by OAW View Post
Depends on how you look at it. Seems a lot like what people say about "negative campaign ads" to me. People claim to hate them ... but they tend to consistently respond to them. Similarly, I think a lot of sports fans are decrying the spectacle of the ESPN special ... but I bet you any kind of money that the show's ratings were through the roof!
Just as I figured ....

Whether they were enthralled or appalled by Thursday night's telecast of basketball star LeBron James's announcement about his future, few people, it turns out, could turn away.

The hour-long ESPN special, dubbed "The Decision," drew 9.95 million viewers or 6.96 million households, the equivalent of a 7.0 national rating, according to preliminary figures provided by ESPN over the weekend. Final numbers from Nielsen will come out on Monday.

The figures released so far made Thursday's telecast the highest-rated of any cable or broadcast program that night, and marked the highest overnight rating for any non-NFL ESPN program this calendar year, according to the Walt Disney Co.-owned sports network.
All these "sports fans" talking major sh*t about Lebron James being "narcissistic" ... but they sat their butts down and watched the show quite obviously. They'd have a lot more credibility if they tuned the show out. It's not like his decision wasn't going to get a "breaking news alert" on every major news outlet.

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Jul 12, 2010, 02:46 PM
 
Originally Posted by OAW View Post
Pro sports team cut or trade players ... many of them veterans with the team ... without so much as a phone call all the time. Players and their agents quite often find out about it on ESPN like everybody else. So why is it when the team does this it's just "business" ... but when a player who's a free agent chooses to move on it's all of a sudden a sign of "disloyalty" and "betrayal"?
Exactly.
     
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Jul 12, 2010, 02:56 PM
 
Originally Posted by ShortcutToMoncton View Post
Uhhh, what? I have no idea how you arrive at this conclusion.
Take another look at Dan Gilbert's open letter. I think its tone clearly demonstrates an individual who doesn't quite grasp the "free" part of free agent.

Originally Posted by ShortcuToMoncton
Because both of you are entirely ignoring the context of how this happened, that's why.

greg
It's not that I'm "ignoring" it. I just fail to see how what Lebron James did is substantively different than what owners do all day every day to players. But feel free to enlighten me cause maybe I'm just missing something. Even if one is put off by the "spectacle" of the ESPN program ... again that was only possible because of the fans and the media. Period. Lebron simply took the opportunity to promote his "brand". My attitude about this is fairly straightforward ....

If you don't have a problem when the owner does something ... then don't complain when a player does the same thing.

Don't sit up and watch an hour long special on ESPN going on an on about the Lakers organization ... which is media promotion of the franchise anyway you slice it ... but then get your panties in a bunch over an hour long special on ESPN about Lebron James' free agency decision.

Don't sit up and complain about athletes being paid too much ... when you don't say a freaking word about how much the owner makes.

Don't sit up and talk about putting in place a salary cap on players ... when you don't also support a profit cap on owners.

Just be fair and be consistent.

OAW
     
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Jul 12, 2010, 03:30 PM
 
Originally Posted by ShortcutToMoncton View Post
Who cares if sports fans care about these moments when you clearly don't?
This might hold some weight if "sports fans" were not so biased and selective in their displeasure of certain sporting news. That's the problem I have with all the "sports fans" stumbling over each other with their displeasure of the way LeBron went about this. As noted above, these same sports fans couldn't keep themselves from watching The Decision. There is a word for that: hypocritical.

As a player, I'm not going to not sign with one team or another because some "sports fans" won't like the signing. "Oh no! Cleveland fans will HATE ME if I sign with another team. Chicago fans will hate me if I don't sign with them though. New York fans will hate me if I don't sign with them. Clearly I should just resign with Cleveland!"

If any owner thought his team would be better and have a greater chance of winning a championship they would trade ANYONE, no matter what that player had done for the team or how long they had been there and they do it ALL THE TIME with not even so much as a phone call to the player.

You can argue all you want that that "is not the point" but it IS the point. LeBron didn't owe the Cavs anything and was under no obligation to talk to them or call them before his announcement.

Or are you now suggesting that despite the fact that he apparently wouldn't even talk to the Cavs management, he was still thinking about returning there?
What was there to talk about? LeBron knew about the Cavs cap situation. He knew what kind of contract he would get if he stayed. He knew everything there was to know about staying there. What exactly do you think he could have gained by talking to the Cavs management more than he did? What are they going to tell him he didn't already know? He knew they weren't in a position to be players in this years free agent market if they resigned him. He knew there wouldn't be much, if any, change in the personnel around him if he stayed. Sounds like he had all the information he needed about the Cavs to make his decision.
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Jul 12, 2010, 06:09 PM
 
Originally Posted by Mrjinglesusa View Post
There is a word for that: hypocritical.
Speaking of "hypocritical", here's an open letter that was written in response to Mr. Gilbert's ranting several days back that touches upon that from a different angle. Sums it all up pretty nicely IMO:

Originally Posted by Deron Snyder
Dear Dan:

I couldn't believe your nasty letter was still posted on your team Web site Friday afternoon. I thought that after the emotion had passed, you'd come to your senses and realize that, frankly, you look like an ass. A friend or loved one should have told you as much. Maybe someone did. But being the successful businessman you are, you hardly need to listen to anyone, right?

The guarantee you made is pathetic, but it's pretty funny. You told fans they can ''take it to the bank.'' Really? Sounds like counterfeit to me. Dan, you can't guarantee jack! But if you can, anyone can: I guarantee that James and the Heat will win a championship before your diminished organization does! It's easy to make a bold proclamation, but the odds of mine happening are astronomically better than yours.

You talk about loyalty as if James owed you something. He had a contract, and he honored it. He had an option to go elsewhere, and he exercised it. He wasn't indebted to you or the Cavaliers. If your team hadn't been so sorry and won the No. 1 pick in 2003, another sorry team would've gladly signed James right out of high school. You act as if the Cavs provided him an opportunity that wasn't available in 29 other cities.

And loyalty? Seriously? Like the way you fired coach Mike Brown in May after he led your team to the NBA's best record two years in a row? Like the way you let go of general manager Dan Ferry, who disagreed with Brown's firing? Like the way you offered $6 million to Michigan State coach Tom Izzo, hoping he'd kick the Spartans to the curb? Please. You're from Michigan and didn't think twice about Izzo being ''loyal.''

But acting like a jilted lover with a juvenile letter wasn't enough for you. No, you did a phone interview with the Associated Press, just in case we didn't fully realize how little class you have. You said James ''has gotten a free pass'' and ''tonight we saw who he really is.'' You said James ''quit'' in Games 2, 4, 5 and 6 during the playoffs against the Boston Celtics, and he quit in Game 6 against the Orlando Magic in 2009.

Yeah, that's why you would've given him a lap dance and more--in addition to $126 million--to ensure that he re-signed with the Cavs. If he did get a free pass in Cleveland, you were dying to re-up it. Instead, we saw who you really are when he declined your offer. And you're pretty ugly.

Good luck with that guarantee. I'm sure the NBA's best free agents now are clamoring to play for your team in beautiful downtown Cleveland. I'm sure they can't wait to play for an owner who conducts himself in such a mature, respectful, professional manner when faced with disappointment? Thanks to your infantile diatribes, you'll get exactly what you deserve!

Peace.
OAW
     
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Jul 13, 2010, 01:58 PM
 
Once again, I'm going to point out that you're both essentially making a technical argument without considering the context of what went on.

Saying "players get cut/traded all the time" is precisely an example of that. First, it rarely happens with the type of players who have a nickname like "King".

Second, you're ignoring the fact that GMs do get "graded" on their treatment of their players and/or stars. There's a reason why some teams have management that players want to play for, and other teams have management that players don't like. When management makes a habit of "slighting" their players - even if they can technically do so - they get disgruntled players, which leads to disgruntled fans, which leads to a fired GM.

It's not just a business. Neither of you have addressed my point about the difference(s) between players like Vince Carter or Lebron James leaving their teams, and players like Kevin Garnett or Ray Allen, etc..

Again: everyone (outside of Cleveland) is fine with LeBron being a free agent, and LeBron leaving Cleveland. The issue is how he handled it.

And on that note, here's David Stern - possibly the smoothest-talking CEO in pro sports - with a rather remarkable rebuke (for him) of how things went down:
"I would have advised [James] not to embark on what has become known as 'The Decision,'" Stern said. "I think that the advice he received on this was poor. His performance was fine. His honesty and his integrity shine through. But this decision was ill-conceived, badly produced and poorly executed. Those who were interested were given our opinion prior to its airing."

...

I think [James] is both a terrific player and a very good person," Stern said. "Had he asked my advice in advance I might have suggested that he advise Cleveland at an earlier time than he apparently did that he was leaving even without announcing where he was going."

Also from this article from yesterday:
Since the announcement, there have been reports that the three stars agreed in advance to go to Miami and the drama built up in the first days of July was for a benefit of a documentary that Wade and Bosh were shooting and James' primetime special. Media and television critics from around the country have panned "The Decision."

Over the weekend, Advertising Age published an article with the back story of the production, saying it was in the works for nearly a month. Also that ESPN wanted James to wait until July 14 to make the announcement so it could do it in conjunction with the ESPYs show. The network then cleared air time when July 8 was "chosen" as the date. James' manager Maverick Carter put the show together with Hollywood agent Ari Emanuel.

The implication that James knew his decision and waited, causing the Cavs harm as they waited and missed out on other free agents, was targeted by Stern. The Cavs were not informed of James' choice until minutes before it was revealed on national television.
But no, you're both right of course: there should be no controversy here because LeBron technically acted as was his right....

greg
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