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You are here: MacNN Forums > Software - Troubleshooting and Discussion > macOS > 10.3.2 tomorrow...

10.3.2 tomorrow...
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ankle_brains
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Dec 9, 2003, 11:48 PM
 
it will be out tomorrow sometime pending any last second bugs found.
     
gorickey
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Dec 9, 2003, 11:50 PM
 
What rumor site do you run again?

This is certainly NOT true...
     
msuper69
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Dec 9, 2003, 11:57 PM
 
New Flash! 10.3.2 will be out before 2004.

But then, woop-de-doo. It will be here when it gets here.
     
Gankdawg
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Dec 10, 2003, 12:54 AM
 
Will it fix the chirp/buzz/wail/scream of the PM G5s?
     
Socially Awkward Solo
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Dec 10, 2003, 01:29 AM
 
Originally posted by Gankdawg:
Will it fix the chirp/buzz/wail/scream of the PM G5s?
That seems like it would be more of a ROM update thang.

"Laugh it up, fuzz ball!"
     
anaphora68
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Dec 10, 2003, 02:04 AM
 
Predicting when apple is going to release something is kind of like predictiing the weather guys, we get it right about 2% of the time. Just hold off and wait.
     
RayX
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Dec 10, 2003, 02:14 AM
 
Hopefully not, too early. This will be the first major update, it should be rock solid.
     
SSharon
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Dec 10, 2003, 03:10 AM
 
as long as it fixes the icons I don't care when it comes
     
Kate
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Dec 10, 2003, 04:42 AM
 
Originally posted by ankle_brains:
it will be out tomorrow sometime pending any last second bugs found.
Hm, rather not. A new build was seeded this night.
     
Appleman
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Dec 10, 2003, 04:46 AM
 
Originally posted by RayX:
This will be the first major update.
What's the differenece between un update from x.x.0 to x.x.1 OR x.x.1 to x.x.2 ?
Seems to me that mathematically speaking it would be just as tiny, small, big, huge, whatever.
     
voodoo
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Dec 10, 2003, 04:58 AM
 
Originally posted by Appleman:
What's the differenece between un update from x.x.0 to x.x.1 OR x.x.1 to x.x.2 ?
Seems to me that mathematically speaking it would be just as tiny, small, big, huge, whatever.
This isn't maths. Did you think there was an incredible mega 3 generation difference between Windows 95 and Windows 98? Or they decided to develop Windows 99 inhouse only and release Windows 2000 a year later? Of course you don't! This is just a naming scheme to market the OS. System 7.7 became Mac OS 8. Why? Because Steve Jobs decided so. And Mac OS 8.6+ essentally became Mac OS 9.

Think of it this way. We'll be using Mac OS 10 for a long time to come. Meaning Mac OS 11 is in the next decade. So the major updates, the ones we pay for, will be the 10.x updates (such as 10.2 and 10.3) while free updates to 10.x systems will be called 10.x.x. These are almost always without new major features, but sometimes they bring in some minor ones. Mostly they are bugfixes and updates to Darwin. They can fix very little (like 10.3.1 did) or a lot of stuff (like 10.3.2 will according to the feature list leaked).

Bottom line: this isn't math.
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Appleman
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Dec 10, 2003, 05:06 AM
 
     
Powaqqatsi
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Dec 10, 2003, 07:51 AM
 
Originally posted by voodoo:
or a lot of stuff (like 10.3.2 will according to the feature list leaked).
Got a linky for that ?
     
voodoo
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Dec 10, 2003, 08:49 AM
 
I could take Sean Connery in a fight... I could definitely take him.
     
RayX
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Dec 10, 2003, 08:53 AM
 
Originally posted by Appleman:
What's the differenece between un update from x.x.0 to x.x.1 OR x.x.1 to x.x.2 ?
Seems to me that mathematically speaking it would be just as tiny, small, big, huge, whatever.
By first major update, I meant, 10.3.1 was rushed out the door quickly to fix the Firewire and FileVault problems. 10.3.2 will see more across the board bug fixes and other improvements, new drivers for graphics cards, etc.
     
Appleman
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Dec 10, 2003, 09:00 AM
 
Originally posted by RayX:
By first major update, I meant, 10.3.1 was rushed out the door quickly to fix the Firewire and FileVault problems. 10.3.2 will see more across the board bug fixes and other improvements, new drivers for graphics cards, etc.
I understand this, as well as Voodoo's explanation about Windows figures.
It's just that they should either give it names or try to stick to a more mathematical way of changing numbers. If they rush out certain fixes, they can simply do that in the Software Update panel, like the security updates. Question is more: when do you give your application a new number, when do you go from OS 8.5 to 8.6 and when do you decide to jump from OS 8.6 to OS 9. I guess it depends on the amount of changes in the core program, and, maybe even more important, it will depend on the competition: Netscape 4.7 jumped to Netscape 6 just because IE. I guess this is all about marketing. WordPerfect 3.5 for Mac was more capable than WordPerfect 5.1 for MS-DOS, but it sounded not so mature.

Windows jumping from Windows 3.1 to Windows 95 was more a change from giving your application a name instead of a number, so Voodoo actually didn't really had a good point
     
voodoo
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Dec 10, 2003, 09:48 AM
 
Originally posted by Appleman:
Windows jumping from Windows 3.1 to Windows 95 was more a change from giving your application a name instead of a number, so Voodoo actually didn't really had a good point
I wasn't making a point.

I was explaining to you (because you asked) what the logic behind the 10.x.x naming system was. The Apple version number system is infinitely more logical and better than a stupid 'naming' scheme. But that seems to go ok with the schmoes out there. For whom do you think 'Jaguar' and 'Panther' are named? The average schmoe that's who. Is it logical - heck no! Why on God's green Earth should there be a 'mathematical' measurement on how large the vesion number should be?? We fixed 5 things so we can raise the version number up 0.05 notches. Yeah good work!! Oh wow we made some major changes here - whoa people this one is a .38 update!! There is no Euclidian scale between 1.0 release and a 2.0 release. It is just a marketing thing or a milestone thing to put an incrimental update number in between.

iTunes jumps from 1 to 2 to 3 to 4 without much change save for a facelift and mp4 support. 'Logically' iTunes should be at oh say 1.3 or is that 1.3701? Adobe Photoshop would be coming close to 4.98 and ... When the fictional Photoshop reaches 5.0 hasn't it only gotten 0.02 notches better? Well then why should people pay for it? That is the marketing thing. People have actually been complaining about paying for OS X 'incremental updates' better known as Jaguar (10.2) and Panther (10.3) because they don't think it's worth it to pay for a 0.1 incremental update. What is there some kind of an international software worthiness committee that hands every software the licence to upgrade their version number after carfully reviewing just HOW much better it is and HOW much has been changed? No of course not. The developer decides this at his own discression. Apple has decided to go with low incremantal updates of OS 10 for MAJOR updates. If the Apple naming scheme of the 90s was still in effect Panther would be Mac OS 12 (sporting a new look on the Finder and all!).

I don't know what you have against the current scheme for updates. The numbers are ONLY to differentiate between different releases of the OS. How much as changed is no secret and it is totally up to the user to decide for himself if the update is worth it or not. Whether it is a 0.1 update or a 0.01 update. How hard can it be just to pay attention to what is happening and what does it really matter if the numbers don't match between themselves in regard to the changes made in the OS? 10.3.2 is simply a release number for a version of Panther.

/rant
I could take Sean Connery in a fight... I could definitely take him.
     
Appleman
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Dec 10, 2003, 09:56 AM
 
Originally posted by voodoo:
I don't know what you have against the current scheme for updates.
I have nothing against it, actually I don't care.
As I said it would be difficult to maintain a certain mathematical logic in it, but I think that is more or less the way it meant in the early days. I see the numbers as a differentiation between the former and futere versions, nothing more, nothing less.
     
voodoo
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Dec 10, 2003, 10:02 AM
 
Originally posted by Appleman:
I see the numbers as a differentiation between the former and futere versions, nothing more, nothing less.
Yet you posted
"What's the differenece between un update from x.x.0 to x.x.1 OR x.x.1 to x.x.2 ?"

When you already knew the answer was:
"numbers [are] a differentiation between the former and futere versions, nothing more, nothing less."

??
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Appleman
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Dec 10, 2003, 10:04 AM
 
Originally posted by voodoo:
Yet you posted
"What's the differenece between un update from x.x.0 to x.x.1 OR x.x.1 to x.x.2 ?"

When you already knew the answer was:
"numbers [are] a differentiation between the former and futere versions, nothing more, nothing less."

??
It supposed to be a retorical question.
     
Powaqqatsi
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Dec 10, 2003, 10:34 AM
 
     
benb
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Dec 10, 2003, 11:21 AM
 
Originally posted by Appleman:
It supposed to be a retorical question.
What?
     
Appleman
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Dec 10, 2003, 11:27 AM
 
Originally posted by benb:
What?
nevermind.
     
absmiths
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Dec 10, 2003, 11:52 AM
 
Originally posted by voodoo:
iTunes jumps from 1 to 2 to 3 to 4 without much change save for a facelift and mp4 support. 'Logically' iTunes should be at oh say 1.3 or is that 1.3701? Adobe Photoshop would be coming close to 4.98 and ... When the fictional Photoshop reaches 5.0 hasn't it only gotten 0.02 notches better?
That sounds like Linux numbering - except that they generally don't make it past 1.0. "My library depends on your library, but only version 0.2.381a5 or later . . ."

If the Apple naming scheme of the 90s was still in effect Panther would be Mac OS 12 (sporting a new look on the Finder and all!).
They already did that - it is called Metal Finder.
     
absmiths
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Dec 10, 2003, 11:54 AM
 
Originally posted by benb:
What?
Are you asking what is meant by rhetoric, or what question was meant to be rhetorical? If the former, then look it up at Meriam Webster - if the latter, then you missed most of this silly thread.

http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionar...&va=rhetorical
     
wy4tt
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Dec 10, 2003, 12:14 PM
 
Originally posted by Powaqqatsi:
thanks
powaqqatsi, off topic, but just thought i'd comment on your name. i recently found out about the qatsi films, and should have them in a week or so. do you know of any others aside from baraka and chronos?
15 inches of aluminum fury
     
***sub***
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Dec 10, 2003, 02:31 PM
 
try Koyaanisqatsi (not sure of the spelling)
     
Anand
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Dec 10, 2003, 06:17 PM
 
Originally posted by ankle_brains:
it will be out tomorrow sometime pending any last second bugs found.

Well, I guess they found some bugs!
Yes, I know I could buy a PC, but why?
     
gorickey
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Dec 10, 2003, 07:06 PM
 
Originally posted by Anand:
Well, I guess they found some bugs!
No, he was just wrong is all...
     
Brass
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Dec 10, 2003, 07:43 PM
 
Just to be different...

I would suggest that the version id scheme in effect currently is actually mathematical.

It's just not the simple maths your thinking of, and the numbers don't correlate to anything in the product itself, but ONLY to other versions of the product.

Eg, 10.3.1 > 10.2.8, therefore 10.3.1 is more recent than 10.2.8. This is mathematical, albeit not using standard maths (ie, "10.3.1" is not actually a number, but an ordered set of numbers, so it's not straight maths, but is is still maths, of a kind).

Now having said all that, the ONLY deduction that can be made from said maths is which version is more recent that which other version (which cannot be done with other naming schemes, such as "Panther" or "Windows NT").

The choice of the version ID has two factors that I can see: 1. The new version must be greater than the old version according to the set mathematics used (as explained in the example above); 2. Marketting.

That's it. If the marketting and/or planning people decide it needs to look like a bigger increment, then they'll make it look mathematically bigger.


I must be bored to be writing all this drivel.
     
wataru
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Dec 10, 2003, 07:56 PM
 
Gah! Stop saying "maths"! It's "math"! I don't care if that's how you do it over there, it's just wrong!
     
JB72
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Dec 10, 2003, 10:31 PM
 
Well I can't wait for 10.3.2. My experience has been that 10.3.1 is still one of the buggiest OS X releases in years.
     
swiz
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Dec 10, 2003, 10:48 PM
 
I have never scrolled through an entire thread so fast. Talk about useless posts, here's another.

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Brass
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Dec 11, 2003, 12:03 AM
 
Originally posted by wataru:
Gah! Stop saying "maths"! It's "math"! I don't care if that's how you do it over there, it's just wrong!
I always think it's funny when Americans think that American English is better or more correct than English English.



"maths" is short for "mathematics" which is plural (ie, the study of mathematical things). You don't say "pant" when talking about "underpants" do you? Or maybe you avoid the problem altogether by saying "jocks"?

ah well. Add another to the tally of useless posts in this thread :-)
     
Socially Awkward Solo
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Dec 11, 2003, 01:41 AM
 
Arguing over version numbers?

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Appleman
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Dec 11, 2003, 07:57 AM
 
Originally posted by Brass:
I always think it's funny when Americans think that American English is better or more correct than English English.
Acoording to Mac OS X, there is a difference between:

- English
- Australian English
- British English
- Canadian English
- U.S. English



(off topic?)
     
Powaqqatsi
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Dec 11, 2003, 07:58 AM
 
Originally posted by wy4tt:
powaqqatsi, off topic, but just thought i'd comment on your name. i recently found out about the qatsi films, and should have them in a week or so. do you know of any others aside from baraka and chronos?
Yeah Anima Mundi maybe ?

And yes of course Koyaanisqatsi and Naqoyqatsi.

http://www.koyaanisqatsi.org
     
BGK
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Dec 11, 2003, 10:37 AM
 
also what I think is funny/annoying is "10.3.2 will be out by Christmas!" when in all actuality, these are JUST updates and nothing to lose sleep over. how significant will these changes and bug fixes be?

undoubtedly there will be a new thread started by someone saying 10.3.2 is full of bugs, a major disappointment, and should be avoided at all costs...

I know Winter has arrived, but you guys need to get out a little more.
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voodoo
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Dec 11, 2003, 10:53 AM
 
Originally posted by BGK:
also what I think is funny/annoying is "10.3.2 will be out by Christmas!" when in all actuality, these are JUST updates and nothing to lose sleep over. how significant will these changes and bug fixes be?

undoubtedly there will be a new thread started by someone saying 10.3.2 is full of bugs, a major disappointment, and should be avoided at all costs...

I know Winter has arrived, but you guys need to get out a little more.
If you aren't experiencing any bugs you can count yourself lucky. Some of us are eageerly waiting for MAJOR networking bugs to be fixed and oh so many other glitches as well. There is some hope for some of those annying things to be fixed in 10.3.2 and that is why we're losing sleep. We are *that* excited because we can't wait to be able to use Panther SORIOUSLY.
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BGK
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Dec 11, 2003, 10:57 AM
 
I suppose I am just pessimistic in this case when it comes to apple fixing so many of these bugs (if not making them worse) in one update. maybe, however, we, I, will be proved wrong, and 10.3.2 will kick some major ass.
I want the ability to sleep in the snow, if I have to. I want the ability to want to.
     
absmiths
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Dec 11, 2003, 01:12 PM
 
Originally posted by Brass:
I always think it's funny when Americans think that American English is better or more correct than English English.



"maths" is short for "mathematics" which is plural (ie, the study of mathematical things). You don't say "pant" when talking about "underpants" do you? Or maybe you avoid the problem altogether by saying "jocks"?

ah well. Add another to the tally of useless posts in this thread :-)
I also think it is interesting that the British are more likely to take a haughty attitude toward "their own" English than are Americans, and since I don't say underpants, that point is moot.

The lameness factor in this thread just went up +1.
     
absmiths
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Dec 11, 2003, 01:13 PM
 
Originally posted by BGK:
I suppose I am just pessimistic in this case when it comes to apple fixing so many of these bugs (if not making them worse) in one update. maybe, however, we, I, will be proved wrong, and 10.3.2 will kick some major ass.
Given that it is an incremental update, that seems unlikely.
     
BGK
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Dec 11, 2003, 01:15 PM
 
but I hear 10.4 will be out before next Christmas!
I want the ability to sleep in the snow, if I have to. I want the ability to want to.
     
philzilla
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Dec 11, 2003, 03:20 PM
 
Originally posted by Appleman:
Acoording to Mac OS X, there is a difference between:

- English
- Australian English
- British English
- Canadian English
- U.S. English
not when you're installing it, it isn't. it's English.
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CharlesS
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Dec 11, 2003, 06:12 PM
 
Originally posted by Brass:
I always think it's funny when Americans think that American English is better or more correct than English English.
I thinke we ought to speake ye olde Queene's English.

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Dec 11, 2003, 10:25 PM
 
Originally posted by Appleman:
It supposed to be a retorical question.
you mean rectorical don't you?
     
gorickey
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Dec 11, 2003, 10:38 PM
 
Originally posted by Podolsky:
you mean rectorical don't you?
No, I bet he means "rhetorical" actually...
     
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Dec 11, 2003, 11:01 PM
 
Originally posted by gorickey:
No, I bet he means "rhetorical" actually...
I think that was meant to be a joke, think "a ss".

Any way, about the numbering thing, two things to add to the mostly worthless thread :
1. the higher the number, the newer. it works, it's functional

2. i work tech support, and it would be a huge pain to refer to each update as "Feature Upgrade 10-12-03" or "Security Update 11-3-03" or maybe "Sparky" trust me, it's very helpful to just ask what version of OS X they have, then decide if their problem relates to that. Even the named, larger upgrades have points related, i.e. 10.2 "Jaguar" 10.3 "Panther". It's all very helpful yay yay.
Travis Sanderson
     
The Evener
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Dec 13, 2003, 08:43 PM
 
Originally posted by Appleman:
Acoording to Mac OS X, there is a difference between:

- English
- Australian English
- British English
- Canadian English
- U.S. English



(off topic?)
Maybe the folks at Apple have a strange sense of humo(u)r?


"Psssst..."
     
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Dec 13, 2003, 11:12 PM
 
So far, this is my favo(u)rite thread.
Pardon me, but I think something is stuck in my (o)esophagus. Perhaps I should head to the theatre/theater. Hmm... I think this can on the ground is made of aluminum/aluminium.

Eh, whatever. At least I'm IBTL (in before the lock).
     
 
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