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You are here: MacNN Forums > Community > MacNN Lounge > Political/War Lounge > And I thought it stopped at the science classroom. Embarrassing and frightening...

And I thought it stopped at the science classroom. Embarrassing and frightening...
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olePigeon
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Feb 12, 2010, 04:56 PM
 
How Christian Were the Founders? - NYTimes.com

Texas Board of Education is overrun by Conservative Christians pushing their dogma into textbooks of all subjects. Apparently they missed Thomas Jefferson's memo.
"…I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than
you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods,
you will understand why I dismiss yours." - Stephen F. Roberts
     
Shaddim
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Feb 12, 2010, 05:25 PM
 
If Texans are upset about this I'm sure they'll vote accordingly.
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
- Thomas Paine
     
Chuckit
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Feb 12, 2010, 06:14 PM
 
If Texans are not upset by this, I feel bad for their children.
Chuck
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Shaddim
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Feb 12, 2010, 07:13 PM
 
Hell, even if Texas wants to teach the virtues of the FSM (ramen) in public schools, that's their business. They elect these people to represent them and make such decisions.
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
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SpaceMonkey
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Feb 12, 2010, 07:15 PM
 
It doesn't mean we can't point at them and laugh, however.

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Shaddim
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Feb 12, 2010, 07:20 PM
 
Of course not, feel free. Point, laugh, ridicule, whatever. At the end of the day, however, they can choose what they want.
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
- Thomas Paine
     
ghporter
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Feb 12, 2010, 09:09 PM
 
The Texas Board of Education is not made up of elected officials. They're all appointed by the Governor. The Governor of Texas is a relatively weak position, but some things the Gov can do are pretty strong: like appointing his own idea of "good members" of the BoE. Which, by the way IS being noticed by voters in Texas. The problem is that once someone is appointed to most Governor-selected positions, they're protected from replacement for two years. Yeah, it's bad. Gov. Perry has done more to hurt Texas than his predecessor could possibly have thought to do.

Glenn -----OTR/L, MOT, Tx
     
quesera
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Feb 13, 2010, 12:19 AM
 
Actually the SBOE is elected. I think Perry might have appointed several members though through some other process.
From the Texas Education Agency website:

The Commissioner of Education and the State Board of Education (SBOE), an elected 15 member
board, oversee the public education system of Texas in accordance with the Texas Education Code.

My neighbor is running for a seat.
     
imitchellg5
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Feb 13, 2010, 04:56 PM
 
Originally Posted by ghporter View Post
The Texas Board of Education is not made up of elected officials. They're all appointed by the Governor. The Governor of Texas is a relatively weak position, but some things the Gov can do are pretty strong: like appointing his own idea of "good members" of the BoE. Which, by the way IS being noticed by voters in Texas. The problem is that once someone is appointed to most Governor-selected positions, they're protected from replacement for two years. Yeah, it's bad. Gov. Perry has done more to hurt Texas than his predecessor could possibly have thought to do.
Yikes. That's a lot of power for a state governor. Nothing that the people can do as recourse?
     
nonhuman
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Feb 13, 2010, 05:01 PM
 
This is not a Texas-only problem. Texas' role in guiding national education standards is rather like California's in guiding national environmental standards. Because they're so large and so particular about what can and can't be allowed in their textbooks, the publishers basically just make the books that Texas wants and sell them to the rest of us as well.
     
ghporter
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Feb 13, 2010, 05:48 PM
 
Originally Posted by quesera View Post
Actually the SBOE is elected. I think Perry might have appointed several members though through some other process.
From the Texas Education Agency website:

The Commissioner of Education and the State Board of Education (SBOE), an elected 15 member
board, oversee the public education system of Texas in accordance with the Texas Education Code.

My neighbor is running for a seat.
My bad-I left out a step. The Gov can appoint to fill vacancies for the balance of a term, which can be as much as 2 years. Since we do not have recall (or referendum) in Texas, we can't pitch either an elected or appointed fool from these offices.

Glenn -----OTR/L, MOT, Tx
     
OldManMac
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Feb 14, 2010, 12:04 PM
 
Originally Posted by Shaddim View Post
If Texans are upset about this I'm sure they'll vote accordingly.
If only that were the case, and if only you knew what was really going on. Still believe in the myth that "the people" control this country?
     
dcmacdaddy
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Feb 14, 2010, 12:18 PM
 
Originally Posted by OldManMac View Post
If only that were the case, and if only you knew what was really going on. Still believe in the myth that "the people" control this country?
Actually, I think you are wrong on this one OldManMac.

I think "the people" of Texas, or at least a majority of them, are aware of what's going on and are glad that Christianity is being so heavily promoted in their public schools. While Texas is the biggest state in terms of educational funding I think there are many others in all parts of the country that are/would be glad that Christianity is being pushed so openly in our public education system.

I think there is a surprisingly large number of people in this country--somewhere about 40% of the population I would guess--who would like overt religious, Christian messages to be taught in our public school system. Except it is the rare individual who will come out and honestly espouse such a viewpoint. And while I disagree with the idea of actively promoting religion in the public school system I respect those individuals willing to publicly claim the idea as their own and not be ashamed of their stance on the matter.


As for the issues before the Texas State Board of Education, I am not surprised that someone is trying to use their position of authority to force inclusion of religion into the public school system. Not in the least.
One should never stop striving for clarity of thought and precision of expression.
I would prefer my humanity sullied with the tarnish of science rather than the gloss of religion.
     
amazing
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Feb 14, 2010, 12:54 PM
 
Definitely time for a Texas governor joke. It's an old joke (previous election), originally from Leno, reprinted in Time mag:

Leno said there's a rumor flying around that Lance Armstrong is thinking of running for Governor of Texas. Now, there's mixed opinions about whether his candidacy would be good for Texas. Leno, however, said he's all for it, and that it would be fantastic, absolutely wonderful for Texas!

Why? Leno said: Because Texas would finally have a Governor who can ride a bike!
_______________________________

Now, you might think that there are certain entry-level standards for being Governor of Texas, just as you might argue that there are certain minimal requirements for being called "educated." But, of course, if you're thinking that, well, Texas politics might soon disabuse you of that insane belief system.
     
ghporter
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Feb 14, 2010, 01:36 PM
 
Originally Posted by amazing View Post
Definitely time for a Texas governor joke. It's an old joke (previous election), originally from Leno, reprinted in Time mag:

Leno said there's a rumor flying around that Lance Armstrong is thinking of running for Governor of Texas. Now, there's mixed opinions about whether his candidacy would be good for Texas. Leno, however, said he's all for it, and that it would be fantastic, absolutely wonderful for Texas!

Why? Leno said: Because Texas would finally have a Governor who can ride a bike!
_______________________________

Now, you might think that there are certain entry-level standards for being Governor of Texas, just as you might argue that there are certain minimal requirements for being called "educated." But, of course, if you're thinking that, well, Texas politics might soon disabuse you of that insane belief system.
Funny you should bring up the bicycle thing. Our esteemed governor, who claims to be an avid bicyclist, vetoed a law that would have required drivers to yield some small amount of right-of-way when passing cyclists and pedestrians because "this issue is well covered in our existing laws" or something to that effect.

Unfortunately, while the basic traffic laws do require some sort of attention to right of way for bicycles and pedestrians, they do not address what has appeared to be a tendency for willfully running people down with motorvehicles. Which happened recently here in San Antonio, when a couple on a tandem bike were killed by a motorist in a large truck-in circumstances that are not clearly "accidental." At worst this behavior gets the motorist a traffic citation, not some sort of criminal enforcement action. So while Perry claims he can ride a bike, I'd like to see him do that on 1604 here in San Antonio, or on any of the numerous and busy highways in the Houston area that have a history of people getting run off the road-or much worse.

I kinda miss old George in the Governor's Mansion. He was fun to watch, but he didn't do too much damage here, and he certainly didn't make it so glaringly obvious that he was in the pocket of a lot of special interests-including the "I drive a truck and I hate bicyclists" lobby.

Glenn -----OTR/L, MOT, Tx
     
BadKosh
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Feb 14, 2010, 04:46 PM
 
Religious zealots are everywhere and they have agendas too. These particular religious knuckleheads have been trying for decades to force their BS on anyone who would listen. They probably worked to get like-minded types elected so they would vote for such crap. The same crap happened with ACORN as they got some of their folks elected, but just because they got elected doesn't mean they are doing good for the citizens. We only get the government we deserve. Wake up and start being active to get rid of the extremists on all sides.
     
Orion27
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Feb 14, 2010, 06:58 PM
 
Originally Posted by BadKosh View Post
Religious zealots are everywhere and they have agendas too. These particular religious knuckleheads have been trying for decades to force their BS on anyone who would listen. They probably worked to get like-minded types elected so they would vote for such crap. The same crap happened with ACORN as they got some of their folks elected, but just because they got elected doesn't mean they are doing good for the citizens. We only get the government we deserve. Wake up and start being active to get rid of the extremists on all sides.
Global warming is settled Science. Taught in all classrooms in every state. It's the religion of the left.
The high priest of this religion has just renounced his religion. What are they going to teach in schools now?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...organised.html
American Thinker: Climategate's Phil Jones Confesses to Climate Fraud
MAIL ON SUNDAY COMMENT: The professor's amazing climate change retreat | Mail Online
( Last edited by Orion27; Feb 14, 2010 at 07:13 PM. )
     
Shaddim
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Feb 14, 2010, 09:39 PM
 
Originally Posted by dcmacdaddy View Post
Actually, I think you are wrong on this one OldManMac.

I think "the people" of Texas, or at least a majority of them, are aware of what's going on and are glad that Christianity is being so heavily promoted in their public schools.
Yep, that's about the size of it.
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
- Thomas Paine
     
OldManMac
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Feb 14, 2010, 09:54 PM
 
Originally Posted by dcmacdaddy View Post
Actually, I think you are wrong on this one OldManMac.

I think "the people" of Texas, or at least a majority of them, are aware of what's going on and are glad that Christianity is being so heavily promoted in their public schools. While Texas is the biggest state in terms of educational funding I think there are many others in all parts of the country that are/would be glad that Christianity is being pushed so openly in our public education system.
I don't disagree with your statement, in so far as it goes. What's troubling is that these aren't just religious people; they're extremists, including the chair of the board, who was recently demoted, who fervently believes that the earth is less than 10,000 years old, and who's still influential enough to do dirty back-room deals (as mentioned in the article), that subvert what the majority of people actually believe.

I think there is a surprisingly large number of people in this country--somewhere about 40% of the population I would guess--who would like overt religious, Christian messages to be taught in our public school system. Except it is the rare individual who will come out and honestly espouse such a viewpoint. And while I disagree with the idea of actively promoting religion in the public school system I respect those individuals willing to publicly claim the idea as their own and not be ashamed of their stance on the matter.


As for the issues before the Texas State Board of Education, I am not surprised that someone is trying to use their position of authority to force inclusion of religion into the public school system. Not in the least.
I'm not surprised either. But I am angry about how much influence so few people have about what our children are "taught," and that is the point of this article. These people would take us back to the stone age if they could; they're the type who believe that Leave It To Beaver was a reality show in the late 50s and early 60s, and they've never stopped trying to take us back to an age that didn't really exist.
     
lpkmckenna
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Feb 14, 2010, 10:00 PM
 
Originally Posted by Orion27 View Post
Global warming is settled Science. Taught in all classrooms in every state. It's the religion of the left.
The high priest of this religion has just renounced his religion. What are they going to teach in schools now?
Climategate U-turn: Astonishment as scientist at centre of global warming email row admits data not well organised | Mail Online
American Thinker: Climategate's Phil Jones Confesses to Climate Fraud
MAIL ON SUNDAY COMMENT: The professor's amazing climate change retreat | Mail Online
Haven't read the article yet, but there's a reason that rag is known as the Daily Fail.

Try this link for some sanity: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/8511701.stm
( Last edited by lpkmckenna; Feb 14, 2010 at 10:40 PM. )
     
dcmacdaddy
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Feb 14, 2010, 10:19 PM
 
Originally Posted by OldManMac View Post
I'm not surprised either. But I am angry about how much influence so few people have about what our children are "taught," and that is the point of this article. These people would take us back to the stone age if they could; they're the type who believe that Leave It To Beaver was a reality show in the late 50s and early 60s, and they've never stopped trying to take us back to an age that didn't really exist.
I think you still don't get my point. In my opinion, those "few people" on the board who espouse such views are, in fact, representing the will of the majority of the people in Texas.

So, the problem is not that a small majority of individuals is advocating for overt Christian instruction in public schools, the problem is that a large chunk of the population of Texas thinks that it is acceptable and desirable to teach specific religious beliefs in their public school system.


In a general sense the problem is that a large chunk of the population of Texas thinks subverting the Constitution's First Amendment protections is not just acceptable but desirable. And yet, these folks are likely to be the same ones who would be outraged at any attempt to subvert the Constitution's Second Amendment protections. Kinda funny how that works. (The only pleasure I take in all of this is pointing out the hypocrisy evident in wanting one Constitutional amendment vigorously enforced while being willing to subvert another, more important, Constitutional amendment.)
One should never stop striving for clarity of thought and precision of expression.
I would prefer my humanity sullied with the tarnish of science rather than the gloss of religion.
     
olePigeon  (op)
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Feb 14, 2010, 10:49 PM
 
Originally Posted by Orion27 View Post
The high priest of this religion has just renounced his religion.
No he didn't, the newspaper claimed that. Read what he says. Better yet, read the article from the BBC.
"…I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than
you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods,
you will understand why I dismiss yours." - Stephen F. Roberts
     
Orion27
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Feb 14, 2010, 11:17 PM
 
Originally Posted by olePigeon View Post
No he didn't, the newspaper claimed that. Read what he says. Better yet, read the article from the BBC.
BBC:
B - Do you agree that from 1995 to the present there has been no statistically-significant global warming
Yes, but only just. I also calculated the trend for the period 1995 to 2009. This trend (0.12C per decade) is positive, but not significant at the 95% significance level. The positive trend is quite close to the significance level. Achieving statistical significance in scientific terms is much more likely for longer periods, and much less likely for shorter periods.
     
   
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