[Hawkeye_a]

I have a MacBook (late 2008, unibody)... and i'd like to upgrade.

While i like the current offerings, they don't really offer anything more than incremental upgrades to speed, weight and battery life.

I'm sure we all have ideas of what the next gen of Mac laptops need to have.... here's mine.

-USB 3.0
-3G SIM tray for mobile broadband (i have been using 3G mobile broadband for almost 2 years, and i dont see the need for a wired connection into my home). They can get rid of the ethernet port, and require ppl to buy the ethernet adapter like they did with the modem)
-If they want to get rid of built in optical drives, they can go ahead.... but at least build in support for BluRay into their consumer authoring software, and upgrade the external superdrive to a BluRay burner.
-Displayport output with AUDIO. (or drip it altogether and use a mini-HDMI... i personally find it annoying to have to use two cables instead of one to plug my MacBook into my HDTV)
-While i know this will probably not happen: get rid of HDCP(or whatever) on their Displayport/video interface.

As far as processor and GPU power... i'm not too fussed, as i saw a new low end MacBook Air(1.4Ghz GPU and 320M) and it seemed to perform just fine (in fact better than my 2.4Ghz MaBook...thanks to the Flash mem, no doubt).

Cheers

[Phileas]

Those if us who use their laptops for video production need the Ethernet port daily. At least until wireless transfer speeds get much, much faster.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a 

I have a MacBook (late 2008, unibody)... and i'd like to upgrade.

While i like the current offerings, they don't really offer anything more than incremental upgrades to speed, weight and battery life.

I'm sure we all have ideas of what the next gen of Mac laptops need to have.... here's mine.

-USB 3.0

will be skipped over; going straight to LightPeak.

Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a 

-3G SIM tray for mobile broadband (i have been using 3G mobile broadband for almost 2 years, and i dont see the need for a wired connection into my home). They can get rid of the ethernet port, and require ppl to buy the ethernet adapter like they did with the modem)

This would be nice, but should it happen, probably only in Pro/Air series.
As a replacement for the Ethernet port, however - gah.

Ethernet is the fastest connector on current hardware (except for FW800 in some situations). It can go when LightPeak is standard, but not a second sooner.

Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a 

-If they want to get rid of built in optical drives, they can go ahead.... but at least build in support for BluRay into their consumer authoring software, and upgrade the external superdrive to a BluRay burner.

Probably never. Which consumer will EVER need to author to BluRay? Anybody tech-savvy enough to see the need will have the means to stream from other media. The situations where a non-pro desperately needs the optical medium for video storage will probably apply to a half-dozen people, worldwide.

Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a 

-Displayport output with AUDIO. (or drip it altogether and use a mini-HDMI... i personally find it annoying to have to use two cables instead of one to plug my MacBook into my HDTV)

This has been the case since April last year.

Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a 

-While i know this will probably not happen: get rid of HDCP(or whatever) on their Displayport/video interface.

You want Blu-Ray authoring (and thus necessarily playback support), but no HDCP? I find that confusing.

[Athens]

Some of what im saying has been said already but I got more to add.

-USB 3.0 (Don't need it or want it. The technology is pretty useless. Most devices will continue to be on USB 2 for years to come. External Hard drives was about the only place that USB 3 made any sense and eSATA is a better interface for that. As others have said the lack of USB 3 is probably Apple waiting for Lightpeak.

-3G SIM (Would be nice but its a good business choice not to. People will buy iPhones instead to tether. With that said I couldn't see myself using it ever in a laptop because I can tether through bluetooth to my phone. A second slot for a second device would just mean additional monthly bills when I don't even fully use the 6GB 3G data I have now.

They can get rid of the ethernet port - Oh no, this one would absolutely make me switch platforms. USB Ethernet is limited to 10/100 and I make use of GB speeds daily.

As for the optical drive I wouldn't mind a build to order option. But Apple is betting on Blu-Ray being dead and at first I thought that was silly before I owned a blu-ray player. Not that I do own one and about 100 blu-ray movies I find myself not that impressed. Downloading HD content to my AppleTV looks fantastic. Between having all my movies on hard drives and a dedicated computer or having to deal with Media and big clunky slow Blu Ray players, I rather have it all digital. The biggest issue right now is the content providers and the price gouging they do with online media.

The DisplayPort already has Audio now so thats been addressed

What I miss and a lot is the ExpressCard slot. Its one of the reasons I don't see myself selling my 2008 Macbook Pro because I use that slot for eSATA. I can get new life into my Macbook with a SSD down the road and my CPU and GPU is still good enough that I can't justify upgrading. But even if I wanted to upgrade the lack of ExpressCard on the 15" annoys me to no end. I don't want a 17" due to size. I don't even like the 15" size but I can live with it.

This is what I like to see Apple do.

Macbook Line 13" and 15" and use what we currently have out there now.

Macbook Pro Line 13", 15", 17" and use what we currently have now but add back in to all 3 size models ExpressCard, USB3 because some people want it, SATA3 internally, MicroSim Slot, Finger Print Scanner and built in dual display out. A build to order dual hard drive or optical drive would be nice too.

This would bring Apples Laptop offerings up to 7. If I could get a Macbook Pro like above I would be happy paying a premium price over the lessor computers. Just offer it.

[OreoCookie]

Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a 

-USB 3.0

Even Intel hasn't included USB3 with Sandy Bridge, its brand-new cpu. Computer manufacturers have to buy extra chips to have USB3 on board -- an effort which most manufacturers will not make.

I hope Apple will introduce Lightpeak this year

Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a 

-3G SIM tray for mobile broadband (i have been using 3G mobile broadband for almost 2 years, and i dont see the need for a wired connection into my home). They can get rid of the ethernet port, and require ppl to buy the ethernet adapter like they did with the modem)

That'd be neat. However, IMO the problem is not a technological one, but a problem of getting affordable rates from the carriers.

Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a 

-If they want to get rid of built in optical drives, they can go ahead....

Agreed. I'd rather they shave off 100-200 g from the weight of my MacBook Pro or incorporate a larger battery.

Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a 

but at least build in support for BluRay into their consumer authoring software, and upgrade the external superdrive to a BluRay burner.

Optical drives are dead. I don't see the point clinging onto a dying technology.

Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a 

As far as processor and GPU power... i'm not too fussed, as i saw a new low end MacBook Air(1.4Ghz GPU and 320M) and it seemed to perform just fine (in fact better than my 2.4Ghz MaBook...thanks to the Flash mem, no doubt).

Samsung's series 9 includes a new Sandy Bridge Core i5 with decent integrated graphics and a much, much faster cpu. I hope Apple updates the Air rather sooner than later.

[lpkmckenna]

Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a 

Displayport output with AUDIO. (or drip it altogether and use a mini-HDMI... i personally find it annoying to have to use two cables instead of one to plug my MacBook into my HDTV)

I'd like to point out that HDMI is too low a resolution for large computer monitors.

[imitchellg5]

Originally Posted by OreoCookie 

That'd be neat. However, IMO the problem is not a technological one, but a problem of getting affordable rates from the carriers.

Why would you involve carriers? Just put the SIM card slot in, like every other notebook with GSM service and let the customer pick the provider.

[Laminar]

Originally Posted by lpkmckenna 

I'd like to point out that HDMI is too low a resolution for large computer monitors.

?? The video portion of an HDMI cable is electrically identical to DVI.

HDMI 1.4 was released on May 28, 2009, and the first HDMI 1.4 products were available in the second half of 2009.[54][109] HDMI 1.4 increases the maximum resolution to 4K × 2K (3840×2160p at 24 Hz/25 Hz/30 Hz and 4096×2160p at 24 Hz

Unless I'm missing something.

[lpkmckenna]

Whoa, maybe I'm wrong.

[OreoCookie]

Originally Posted by imitchellg5 

Why would you involve carriers? Just put the SIM card slot in, like every other notebook with GSM service and let the customer pick the provider.

For the same reason I currently don't have a smartphone: right now, a reasonable contract is way too expensive. Especially if you want a second SIM card for a notebook. (You can get USB sticks with GSM slots for very little, but the carriers rob you blind with their rates.)

Hence, to make this functionality useful, I'd like Apple to strong-arm carriers into offering sensible rate plans like they did with the iPad.

[Athens]

Does US carriers allow tethering yet?

[OreoCookie]

In Germany, you have to pay extra (no matter if you have an iPhone or an Android phone).

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally Posted by OreoCookie 

That'd be neat. However, IMO the problem is not a technological one, but a problem of getting affordable rates from the carriers.

congstar Surf Flat 2

€15 a month for 1GB full HSPA (T-Mobile network coverage), with theoretical throttling beyond that (a birdy has told me they don't actually throttle at all until you repeatedly hit 5 GB).

That's pretty okay in my book.

[imitchellg5]

Originally Posted by OreoCookie 

For the same reason I currently don't have a smartphone: right now, a reasonable contract is way too expensive. Especially if you want a second SIM card for a notebook. (You can get USB sticks with GSM slots for very little, but the carriers rob you blind with their rates.)

Hence, to make this functionality useful, I'd like Apple to strong-arm carriers into offering sensible rate plans like they did with the iPad.

You don't get a contract. Just buy a SIM on T-Mobile for $10 and add unlimited data for $25/mo on Even More Plus if you're in the US. If you're not, pick from your favorite carrier.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally Posted by OreoCookie 

In Germany, you have to pay extra (no matter if you have an iPhone or an Android phone).

Uh, no. Uh, wait.

It was DEFINITELY included in the new T-Mobile Complete L and XL plans introduced in November of last year.

There is absolutely no mention of it now, anywhere on the T-Mobile site. I assume it's still included, but no longer advertised, but I don't know.

Originally Posted by Laminar 

?? The video portion of an HDMI cable is electrically identical to DVI.

Unless I'm missing something.

Yep - DisplayPort. Current MacBooks ship with DisplayPort, not DVI. DisplayPort supports higher resolutions than HDMI, If I'm not mistaken.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally Posted by lpkmckenna 

I'd like to point out that HDMI is too low a resolution for large computer monitors.

HDMI supports dual-link DVI, albeit via the Type "B" connector, which hasn't actually been used in any products yet.

But yes, mini-HDMI makes no sense on a laptop if you're using it to replace the mini DisplayPort. That's just stupid.

[OreoCookie]

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot 

Uh, no. Uh, wait.

It was DEFINITELY included in the new T-Mobile Complete L and XL plans introduced in November of last year.

I was interested in the Complete M (which was expensive enough) at one point -- until I found out my current contract runs out in September 2011. I've asked in the Apple store and they also told me that at least for M, it wasn't available, but I could pay extra. I don't remember what it was. Kind of a bummer when there is no technological limitation, but carriers insist on it anyway.

[OreoCookie]

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot 

congstar Surf Flat 2

€15 a month for 1GB full HSPA (T-Mobile network coverage), with theoretical throttling beyond that (a birdy has told me they don't actually throttle at all until you repeatedly hit 5 GB).

That doesn't sound too bad, but 1 GB isn't all that much.

[Spheric Harlot]

Tethering was 20€ extra, until they rolled it into the more expensive plans.

As I said, a little birdie has told me that the 1GB limitation is on paper only - and even according to the paper, beyond that, it's not capped, but throttled, anyway.

Besides, unless you're planning on dropping the landline entirely, you'd have to work pretty hard to get to that limit.

[Athens]

I get 6GB of data with tethering for $30.00, I dont see a need for a second sim for a laptop personally.

[OreoCookie]

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot 

Besides, unless you're planning on dropping the landline entirely, you'd have to work pretty hard to get to that limit.

I'd immediately drop the landline, but I can't get internet without a landline where I live.

The thing about tethering is that I don't see the point in paying extra to remove a limitation that isn't technical.

[Hawkeye_a]

I agree in theory that most of the "hardware" like USB3 and BluRay *should* be done away with...eventually.

But as long as people need to interface with external peripherals, such as mass storage, or buy high definition movies, or have HD cameras and want to share that content, i think Apple should cater to them.

Regarding light peak, isnt that an internal bus ? or is it one that will have an external interface (port) ? I see no reason why, if and when, Apple goes light peak, it should drop USB2/3 completely, from what little i know of light peak, it would allow different interfaces to operate on it.

USB3 devices.... the same could have been said about FW400 and FW800 and USB and USB2 when they debuted, of even lightpeak today(no devices). i can pick up a USB3 HDD today, but unfortunately there isnt a single Mac option that can take advantage of it. There should be.

Of BluRay...like i siad, they can get rid of optical drives on laptops if they like, but fact is, BluRay has become pretty ubiquitous. And as long as the DRM rights on digital movies is as draconian as it is today, i'd prefer to buy my movies on BR.

Believe me when i say, i WANT to switch to getting movies using digital downloads, but given the unreasonable limitations (at least in iTunes), i cannot justify it. For example, i cannot watch/play that movie on any non-Apple device, portability is an issue (ie i cannot go over to a friend's house to watch the content, i cannot make a DVD of the content that can be watched on any DVD player, ect). At least with music, i can put it on a CD and listen to it without having to interface iPods with other family member's sound systems, etc. And i do travel between regions quite a bit, so i dont want to have to bother with authorizing/deauthorizing computers and displays. While the quality discrepancy between HD digital downloads and BR is negligible to the naked eye, given the DRM rights and inconvenience of digital downloads, i'd personally prefer BR right now. And it would be nice to be able to view those movies on my Mac, and edit/author HD content from a HD camcorder on a mac as well (heck it doesnt even need to be as complicated, there should just be a way to include HD content and burn those discs). IMHO.

Regarding HDCP...i thought HDCP is the hardware implementation of DRM where you cannot watch content on a screen that is not 'approved' or something ? That's just ..whack. unacceptable... id rather deal with the inconvenience of BR discs than put up with that nonsense.

DisplayPort vs HDMI: hey i dont care as long as it actually works. unfortunately when i got my MacBook Apple failed to mention that their implementation of miniDP did not support audio over the same cable. And at that time i didnt have an issue with having to buy a mDP-HDMI cable. but then finding out that i'd have to get a 3.5mm cable as well...well shyte...so it's like my old Mac with a DVI output except i had to dish out to buy a converter now.... "progress".

I personally, am not a fan of waiting out an entire generation of technology till the next one arrives:
-Lightpeak....no reason we should all just abandon USB and Firewire, or have to stick with last generation iterations.
-DigitalDownloads.... no reason we should ignore BR, heck Macs are still using DVD drives, right ?

Unfortunately IMHO, the way it stands, since late 2008... Mac hardware has been stagnant and very incremental. Apple really needs to step up.

Cheers

PS>> regard 3G SIMs... i dont know what the deal is with telcos in the U.S., but here in Oz, 3G broadband has picked up quite a bit with a lot of competition and decent pricing and plans, so having Apple include a 3G SIM tray, would take away the one degree of separation from having to use a USB 3G modem. Ironically, given the inevitable...that 3G and 4G networks will probably eventually replace the old-fashioned broadband connectivity such as ADSL, etc..i dont see why Apple just doesn't drop ethernet and pass on the savings of not having to include the hardware or software support for this aging technology. (See what i did there?)

[OreoCookie]

Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a 

But as long as people need to interface with external peripherals, such as mass storage, or buy high definition movies, or have HD cameras and want to share that content, i think Apple should cater to them.

That's what USB2 and FireWire are for. While given the choice, I'd prefer to have USB3 than not, the fact that Intel has chosen not to include it in its latest generation of cpu chipsets and the looming arrival of Lightpeak makes it DOA. Perhaps Intel would like to use USB3 over Lightpeak directly, who knows.

Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a 

Regarding light peak, isnt that an internal bus ? or is it one that will have an external interface (port) ? I see no reason why, if and when, Apple goes light peak, it should drop USB2/3 completely, from what little i know of light peak, it would allow different interfaces to operate on it.

Lightpeak is an external interface, a meta-interface if you wish. You could use it to connect USB3 devices. Or your screen. Or your printer. Or an eSATA drive. Or all of the above using only one plug since Lightpeak can bundle interfaces! So instead of having to connect 4 plugs at work (USB for the external keyboard and the USB backup drive, DisplayPort, Ethernet and power), I'd only have to connect two.

Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a 

USB3 devices.... the same could have been said about FW400 and FW800 and USB and USB2 when they debuted, of even lightpeak today(no devices).

No, because it was clear there no replacement for either (those media types like FireWire) and USB2 was bound to be popular on the PC side. USB2 is fast enough for a lot of stuff and eSATA is quite popular in the PC world to connect external harddrives.

Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a 

i can pick up a USB3 HDD today, but unfortunately there isnt a single Mac option that can take advantage of it.

Ditto for PCs, USB3 support for PC notebooks is not very widespread.

Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a 

Of BluRay...like i siad, they can get rid of optical drives on laptops if they like, but fact is, BluRay has become pretty ubiquitous.

I know exactly one person who owns a BluRay player (I'm talking about players you connect to the TV), that's it. It's not ubiquitous where I am and it's not likely that'll ever change.

Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a 

Regarding HDCP...i thought HDCP is the hardware implementation of DRM where you cannot watch content on a screen that is not 'approved' or something ? That's just ..whack. unacceptable... id rather deal with the inconvenience of BR discs than put up with that nonsense.

Eeeh, BluRay players require a HDMI interface, so if you have a BluRay player, you are in fact dealing with HDCP non-sense. (I absolutely agree that about DRM bs, that's why I'm glad Apple chose DisplayPort over it.)

Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a 

-Lightpeak....no reason we should all just abandon USB and Firewire, or have to stick with last generation iterations.

As I said, it's a meta-interface. You are able to drive these devices if there is support for it on both ends.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally Posted by OreoCookie 

I'd immediately drop the landline, but I can't get internet without a landline where I live.

The thing about tethering is that I don't see the point in paying extra to remove a limitation that isn't technical.

That's not the point - the limitation is BANDWIDTH, and that's technical, since the equipment necessary to supply it is HELLA expensive.

As it is, nearly all iPhone carriers are struggling under its weight - I can attest to T-Mobile's increasing struggles, as data connections have become increasingly unstable despite full 3G reception.
Expensive data plans are the only way to keep demand reigned in a little while the back-end is geared up.

[Spheric Harlot]

Edit: DP.

WTF is with the 'NN today?

[OreoCookie]

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot 

That's not the point - the limitation is BANDWIDTH, and that's technical, since the equipment necessary to supply it is HELLA expensive.

But that's not a limitation on the end user's side of things, but a problem of the carrier. I don't think enforcing end user limitations by crippling software is not very useful. I'd be much more tempted to get a smart phone if I knew I didn't have to worry about whether or not I'm allowed to use my cell phone as a modem for my MacBook Pro. I don't find carriers very innovative, they've spent years in Europe ripping off their customers for sms while people could watch tv on their cell phones when I left Japan in 2004 (e-mails were taken for granted).

[Athens]

HDCP is required for Blu-Ray. No HDCP no Blu-Ray. You can thank media companies for the DRM's on both Digital Movies and Blu-Ray discs.

I find I have more freedom with Digital Movies then Blu-Ray. Your player breaks your buying a new one. Only way to watch a Blu_ray movie is via approved hardware which requires HDCP to function. Ig your TV or monitor has no HDCP the blu-ray player lowers the quality to standard def or wont work at all with it.

Lightpeak is both a internal and external bus connect.

[P]

Originally Posted by Athens 

Lightpeak is both a internal and external bus connect.

...which is why it's so exciting. Intel is talking it up like a PCIe slot replacement, except with an external version (so you should be able to have e.g. an external GPU). It also has great potential as a SATA replacement for SSDs. We'll see how this works out, if they can keep latencies low enough, but it is certainly interesting.

I don't think it will kill USB 2.0 though. USB is likely to remain cheaper for the forseeable future, and that's important on low-value items like mice and keyboards etc.

[OreoCookie]

Originally Posted by P 

...which is why it's so exciting. Intel is talking it up like a PCIe slot replacement, except with an external version (so you should be able to have e.g. an external GPU). It also has great potential as a SATA replacement for SSDs.

I forgot about that aspect. It makes it even better and a part of me thinks that Intel skips USB3 already. Outside of storage, I cannot think of many applications which are limited by the maximum transfer rates of USB2. And with harddrives and such, I suppose it is easier to use SATA-over-Lightpeak as interface.

Originally Posted by P 

I don't think it will kill USB 2.0 though. USB is likely to remain cheaper for the forseeable future, and that's important on low-value items like mice and keyboards etc.

I agree. But since there is a `copper' version of Lightpeak (if you can make do with 10 GBit/s), I don't think costs are such a major factor either. I suppose USB would still be used for keyboards and such.

[P]

Originally Posted by OreoCookie 

I forgot about that aspect. It makes it even better and a part of me thinks that Intel skips USB3 already. Outside of storage, I cannot think of many applications which are limited by the maximum transfer rates of USB2. And with harddrives and such, I suppose it is easier to use SATA-over-Lightpeak as interface.

Network adapters could use the bandwidth - USB 2.0 is not enough for Gigabit Ethernet - but mostly I think that USB 3.0 adds bandwidth because it's cheap enough and easy enough to do so now and it might be useful some day, not because there is a real demand right now. HDs are more limited by the latency of a USB-SATA bridge than by a lack of bandwidth.

[Athens]

Originally Posted by P 

...which is why it's so exciting. Intel is talking it up like a PCIe slot replacement, except with an external version (so you should be able to have e.g. an external GPU). It also has great potential as a SATA replacement for SSDs. We'll see how this works out, if they can keep latencies low enough, but it is certainly interesting.

I don't think it will kill USB 2.0 though. USB is likely to remain cheaper for the forseeable future, and that's important on low-value items like mice and keyboards etc.

I can see Apple putting in all lightpeak ports and using dongles to attach USB 2/3 Firewire, eSATA, Ethernet

I wouldn't actually mind this if I can plug one lightpeak hub in and connect everything to the hub making only one port to plug into the computer. Or a hub with native ports on it that plugs in via lightpeak.

PC builders for a long time will include all the ports before they start phasing out the older ones though.

Now I wonder how much CPU power lightpeak uses. USB is a pig on CPU power. Its why its cheap. Firewire had dedicated chips which is why it could operate as a independent connect between devices with no computer and had the speed and latency advantages over USB. Native lightpeak should be low on CPU resources. USB through lightpeak will prob still result in heavy cpu demand.

[OreoCookie]

Originally Posted by P 

Network adapters could use the bandwidth - USB 2.0 is not enough for Gigabit Ethernet …

Why even bother to put USB in between and not just do Ethernet over Lightpeak?

Originally Posted by P 

HDs are more limited by the latency of a USB-SATA bridge than by a lack of bandwidth.

I always thought it's mostly bandwidth. Do you have any numbers on this, I'm curious.

In any case, this hopefully brings Mac users one step closer to connecting external harddrives at native speeds.

[P]

Originally Posted by OreoCookie 

Why even bother to put USB in between and not just do Ethernet over Lightpeak?

LightPeak always beats USB 3.0, obviously, but there are very few occasions where USB 3.0 even provides a significant advantage over USB 2.0. Network adapters is one such.

Originally Posted by OreoCookie 

I always thought it's mostly bandwidth. Do you have any numbers on this, I'm curious.

In any case, this hopefully brings Mac users one step closer to connecting external harddrives at native speeds.

Depends on what you're doing, I guess. I just feel that HD bandwidth is very rarely a useful measurement these days. Some SSDs can have terrible bandwidth, but they still feel much faster due to the lower latency. I have a USB 2.0 drive (WD MyBook Elite) that I use for backups. Some quick testing show the actual bandwidth of that drive just over 50 MB/s. That's just over 400 Mbps, or some 85% of theoretical - seems reasonable, as I was doing other things at the time and the USB bus wasn't empty, etc. While it's certainly less than my internal drive (which is just over 150 MB/s, a WD Caviar Black 1TB) I just don't see when that 50 MB/s would be a bottleneck. The extra ms USB adds to the HD - for some reason I can't seem to find a tool that will tell me how much it adds - will be felt every time I try to access something on the drive, however.