[Big Mac]

Anyone following SproutCore? It appears to be the Javascript based framework Apple is using for browser animation effects. I think there was a thread about this technology previously, but I don't know if it identified the platform by name.

[Warren Pease]

I have been interested in this for a while, but kind of lost track of the project for a while patiently waiting for the 1.0 release, since the build tools and API's were being rewritten. Now that it looks like that has solidified somewhat, I should have another look.

This kind of interface would be perfect for the type of apps I write at work, but I've been regulated to traditional web interfaces due to fears that the project would be maintainable only by me (presumably, my co-workers don't have the ability or desire to learn anything new).

[nonhuman]

I remember vaguely hearing about it before, but never really looked into it.

Looks like it's a lot more than a 'Javascript based animation framework'. Appears to be a full Ruby based web application framework in the vein of Rails, Django, Symphony, &c.

I'll definitely be taking a look at it for work.

Edit:
Actually, the more I look at the wiki the less I'm actually sure what this thing is. Not very impressed with the documentation thus far...

[olePigeon]

If they can put together an interface as easy to use as Flash, it'll quickly take over the web.

[Warren Pease]

Originally Posted by nonhuman 

Looks like it's a lot more than a 'Javascript based animation framework'. Appears to be a full Ruby based web application framework in the vein of Rails, Django, Symphony, &c.

Sproutcore is only meant to be run in the browser, there is no server component. SproutCore interacts with the server (be it ruby, php, python, erlang, etc.) via JSON requests.

One advantage is that you can host the app anywhere that serves html, javascript and css.

The build tools do use ruby.

[nonhuman]

Originally Posted by Warren Pease 

Sproutcore is only meant to be run in the browser, there is no server component. SproutCore interacts with the server (be it ruby, php, python, erlang, etc.) via JSON requests.

Yeah, finally managing to tease that out of the docs... So it's a jQuery competitor not a Django competitor (currently my two main tools at work).

Edit:
Actually it appears to be more of a combining of the two: a JavaScript web framework complete with ORM. Sigh, this is so confusing...

[Warren Pease]

I think it's not appropriate to compare it to a JavaScript library since it does a lot more. A JavaScript library is designed to interact and enhance an already existing HTML page. With SproutCore, you use JavaScript to create your views (it writes the HTML for you) and sets up the behaviours for you. I think parts of it are modeled off of jQuery (and previous 0.x releases used Prototype iirc), but it is overall framework agnostic, meaning you could add any library you wanted to expand functionality if needed.

While you can easily create a rich user interface, it does not work if a user doesn't use JavaScript. If this is a consideration, it's not the way to go. Still it's shiny

[Chuckit]

Here's the least confusing summary I can give: It's a browser-based Web application framework that shunts the task of actually storing data to another application on the server. It's similar to Jquery in the sort of things you'd use it for, but SproutCore is actually a framework (with an accompanying set of tools) for making rich, cohesive applications whereas Jquery just offers some extra Javascript functions. There's a lot more focus and organization to SproutCore, so as long as what you're doing is in line with what SproutCore wants to do, it can help you more.

Another framework similar to SproutCore is Cappuccino. Except the Cappuccino guys actually invented their own language on top of Javascript that you write your applications in. It's really interesting and kind of weird.

[hyteckit]

Forget SproutCore. I'm going with jQuery.

[nonhuman]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

Here's the least confusing summary I can give: It's a browser-based Web application framework that shunts the task of actually storing data to another application on the server. It's similar to Jquery in the sort of things you'd use it for, but SproutCore is actually a framework (with an accompanying set of tools) for making rich, cohesive applications whereas Jquery just offers some extra Javascript functions. There's a lot more focus and organization to SproutCore, so as long as what you're doing is in line with what SproutCore wants to do, it can help you more..

Thanks, that's helpful! It looks like it would be very useful if you wanted to build an app that was entirely dependent on JavaScript. While it might be nice to do that, accommodating users who don't (or can't) have JS enabled is a requirement for what I do, not to mention just best practices. (You never know when you might need to access your site but be limited to using Links as a browser!) My usual approach to JavaScript is to build the entire site so that it works without it, then add a JavaScript layer on top that replaces the basic functionality with fancy-style functionality so that I can keep the JS-enhanced and basic interfaces as close to identical as possible.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by Warren Pease 

I think it's not appropriate to compare it to a JavaScript library since it does a lot more. A JavaScript library is designed to interact and enhance an already existing HTML page. With SproutCore, you use JavaScript to create your views (it writes the HTML for you) and sets up the behaviours for you. I think parts of it are modeled off of jQuery (and previous 0.x releases used Prototype iirc), but it is overall framework agnostic, meaning you could add any library you wanted to expand functionality if needed.

While you can easily create a rich user interface, it does not work if a user doesn't use JavaScript. If this is a consideration, it's not the way to go. Still it's shiny

I wonder how it handles search engine requests?

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by nonhuman 

Thanks, that's helpful! It looks like it would be very useful if you wanted to build an app that was entirely dependent on JavaScript. While it might be nice to do that, accommodating users who don't (or can't) have JS enabled is a requirement for what I do, not to mention just best practices. (You never know when you might need to access your site but be limited to using Links as a browser!) My usual approach to JavaScript is to build the entire site so that it works without it, then add a JavaScript layer on top that replaces the basic functionality with fancy-style functionality so that I can keep the JS-enhanced and basic interfaces as close to identical as possible.

This is a smart approach, especially considering search engine requests (which I think is a much stronger argument than people using Links

My approach is just as you said, except I use Prototype for DOM manipulations via Prototype event handlers.

As far as Sproutcore goes, I'll have to learn more to better understand its usefulness. So far, I'm not sure I really understand the point of writing applications using it particularly if you are already immersed in a language such as Ruby or PHP (with or without an additional toolkit).

[Chuckit]

You use Ruby and Javascript to write SproutCore apps, so if you're already immersed in Ruby, I suppose that works to SproutCore's favor.

Also, like I said, it's targeted at Web applications, not Web sites.