[buddy1065]

I have never had marks on my 17" screen. If anyone has marks I would assume it is because the keys on the keyboard are sticking up abnormally and the laptop should be sent in if it is too annoying. My feet were fine till I started getting careless and slid it along a glass table, even though it refused to move. The grip of the feet is the problem, A different rubbery material for the feet would be the solution.

[legionare]

No more dual battery bays (up to Pismo).
No more dual drive bays (up to Wallstreet).
No more Infrared.
No more removable CD/DVD-ROM module.
No region-free firmware for the SuperDrive (yet).

[tritonus]

Originally posted by jon_hh_68:
I thought this problem would be solved with the aluminum design, but there are still keyboard marks on the screen.

These are all generlly minor annoyances and I think the computer overall is great and easy to use for long periods of time.

Same here!

[slffl]

My gripe is that the blue of the DVI output on my 17" PB doesn't work, so I get a red picture. I sent it in and apparently someone had to go home early that friday because they put "could not reproduce" and it's still not working to this day.

[djjava]

Originally posted by tritonus:
Same here!

Marware keybord pad

http://www.marware.com/keyboardcovers.html

[Filburt]

Speaking as a TiBook owner....

• Should be much faster for the price (I will wait for the PowerBook friendly G5)
• Low resolution display... OS X should support DPI as well (I will wait for something like 1680x1050)
• Swivable LCD display would be cool (like MS TablePC displays) and...
• Please provide the vertical docking station option (combined with the above feature, the PowerBook becomes an LCD display)... for seemless external keyboard + mouse operation
• TiBook paint chipping problem... 'nuff said
• Heat dissipation issue, loud fan
• Weak speakers
• WiFi reception could be better, even on AlBook
• No USB 2.0
• No scroll wheel and 2nd mouse button (I like Compaq X1000's implementation)
• No "tripping over AC power adapter" protection (like Nintendo GameCube gamepad)
• Keyboard leaving marks on the LCD

Otherwise, it's darn near perfect.

[slimmy]

Originally posted by djjava:
Marware keybord pad

http://www.marware.com/keyboardcovers.html

Jeez, just put an 8X11 sheet of paper covering the keyboard before you close the PB!

My major gripe is the LCD resolution. I know, I know, some of you have bad eyes, etc. But Apple's LCD screen resolutions should really be on par with some of the better other notebooks out there. Another instance of Apple giving us what Apple wants...


Slim

[kenikov]

I have many problems with the Powerbook.

They are listed here:

What is so bad about the 12" Powerbook?

1. Weight. It is a hefty for a notebook entered in the Super lightweight category. I can find lighter with the same features. Much lighter.

2. Value. You can find a MUCH better notebook for the price, hence the price went down from the original $1700 to $1500. Nobody believed me on this before, but Apple helped me prove them wrong.

3. Toughness. Note as tough as the iBook.

4. Battery. Not as long as the iBook or the new Cetrino Units. Don't even bother arguing, I can prove these with benchmarks from various trustworty magazines.

5. Heating. It heats up fast. Crappy engineering.

6. The G4 isn't that great of a CPU. Frankly, the G3 was much more popular, and is still being improved today.

7. IMO, I prefer the iBooks look.

8. Screen size for price. Do not bring-up portability. 12" laptops do not usually weigh that much for that price.

9. I hear, it only boots into OS 9.

10. Problems of case warping due to heat.


I have many more problems with the 17" as well. Apple basically killed the point of the laptop with that morbidly obese serving-tray.

[alpha rays max]

Originally posted by kenikov:

9. I hear, it only boots into OS 9.

I'm guessing you meant it only boots into OS X because only booting into OS 9 would make no sense whatsoever (and is obviously untrue).

I have many more problems with the 17" as well. Apple basically killed the point of the laptop with that morbidly obese serving-tray.

I disagree. You might have a point if Apple had stopped selling/producing the 12" and 15" PowerBooks. However, we have plenty of options. The 17" serves a purpose - although it's too big for me to use in a mobile setting, it works just fine for other people and is exactly what they're looking for. They didn't kill the point of a laptop for people who need/want this size screen. The 15" fits me fine but someone who owns a 12" might think differently. It's about being able to choose what suits you - as long as it is profitable for Apple to make a certain size or style, they will.

Hey, if someone wants to lug around a PowerBook with a 32" plasma display attached, that's up to them.

[alpha rays max]

That said, I have no real gripes with my PowerBook yet since I just got it a few days ago. Time will tell if mine is affected by the paint chipping problem or any of the other things experienced by Ti owners.

My only gripes or concerns would be:

- Not being able to purchase a Al 15" PB. I bought when I needed a new laptop, and they just aren't available. Oh well, this isn't a huge deal. I can always upgrade in the future, this machine suits me just fine right now!

- My display or enclosure seems to be (nearly imperceptibly (sp?)) crooked. A pixel or two higher on the left than the right. It's not really noticeable when I'm using the machine, but I may still send it in to Apple at some point to get it checked out.

[kenikov]

I disagree. You might have a point if Apple had stopped selling/producing the 12" and 15" PowerBooks. However, we have plenty of options. The 17" serves a purpose - although it's too big for me to use in a mobile setting, it works just fine for other people and is exactly what they're looking for. They didn't kill the point of a laptop for people who need/want this size screen. The 15" fits me fine but someone who owns a 12" might think differently. It's about being able to choose what suits you - as long as it is profitable for Apple to make a certain size or style, they will

The 12" Powerbook is compact, but it isn't exactly light.

What does the 17" serve as? It seems Apple just made it to finally be the "first" at something. To try to be innovative, though any company could of slapped a 17" screen on a laptop, even though they realized it was a dumb idea.

Why would someone need a 17" screen on a laptop? Explain to me a real life purpose, that can't be done with a desktop or a smaller screen.

[lazydesert]

Originally posted by cpac:
For rubber feet people:

You *can* get replacement rubber feet - I just called my local Apple retailer (in Salt Lake City) and they said they could get them - they'd have to order and it'd cost something stupid like $20, but they said they could get them.

Might be worth doing if it bugs you (and this time you could use some super-glue).

Alright, I went to the Apple Store :: Chicago and told them that my rubber feet were falling off. The guy told me to go upstairs to the bar, and the bartenders would hook me up. Told them my situation, and he gave me a couple little feet. One problem though: they were for the 15" powerbook, and their feet are about twice the height. No matter.. took a razorblade and cut it in half and superglued it on. Kick ass, and practically free

[legionare]

Another gripe: The proprietory PowerBook AC adapters, beginning with the flying saucer type.

Innovation my @ss. Completely rendered my APC PNotePro mobile surge proctector incompatible.

[alpha rays max]

I personally don't know why someone needs a 17" screen on their laptop, because I don't need one myself. So I've never considered what I could do with it, although quite a few people obviously have come up with uses for it. I guess my point is more that, if Apple can make money off of it, what difference does it make how useful it is to each and every user? (As long as they have other options, of course, which they do.)

And it's not just Apple... Toshiba recently came out with their 17" notebook (http://www.forbes.com/2003/07/01/cx_ah_0701tentech.html), so apparently other companies don't think it's such a dumb idea.

Really though, I don't know because I don't own a 17" nor do I want one. It was too big for me because I take my PB a lot of places and the 12" screen was too small so the 15" made a lot of sense for me.

It really is, to me, a desktop replacement. If I were using it for that purpose, it would be a nice all-in-one type computer with the option to take it with me. But I can't justify the price premium over a desktop just for that, esp. considering the G5 on the horizon.

Originally posted by kenikov:
What does the 17" serve as? It seems Apple just made it to finally be the "first" at something. To try to be innovative, though any company could of slapped a 17" screen on a laptop, even though they realized it was a dumb idea.

Why would someone need a 17" screen on a laptop? Explain to me a real life purpose, that can't be done with a desktop or a smaller screen.

[kenikov]

It really is, to me, a desktop replacement. If I were using it for that purpose, it would be a nice all-in-one type computer with the option to take it with me. But I can't justify the price premium over a desktop just for that, esp. considering the G5 on the horizon.

The PC side offers much more powerful desktop replacements. The G4 in the 17" can't be that fast.

[alpha rays max]

I think you're just being a troll, honestly.

However "fast" the G4 in the 17" is compared to something on the Wintel side isn't really that relevant. Perhaps aside from the G5, you could make this argument for any Mac vs. PC, it has nothing to do with why Apple decided to produce a 17" PowerBook.

If I were in the market to buy a 17" laptop, I wouldn't look twice at the Toshiba because it doesn't run my programs, the operating system I prefer, and it's rather ugly.

It ain't about raw speed - I have a 2 GHz Dell that I use every day at work and nothing I need to do "feels" any faster to me than any of my "slower" Macs or PCs at home.

We can go down this road ad nauseum, and we already have.

Originally posted by kenikov:
The PC side offers much more powerful desktop replacements. The G4 in the 17" can't be that fast.

[slffl]

I love people who don't like things that they have NEVER used or tried before in their life (ie 17" powerbook). And before you say you have, how long? 10min? It took me a week or two to get used to the size, but now anything else would be too small.

[kenikov]

So? Half the people on this forum never owned or driven a BMW and they were already commenting on them.

I can comment on a 17" Powerbook all I want. The technical specifications all point to crap.

[reybart]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by DigitalEl:
[B]I'm pissed Apple lowered the price of the 12" PB by $200 eight days after I bought mine... But it's great for those wanting to buy now.

You are still qualified for this discount as stated on the agreement that, if happens that within ten days after buying the price drops, one is still covered for the discount.

[DVD Plaza]

Originally posted by slffl:
It took me a week or two to get used to the size, but now anything else would be too small.

Bloody oath - I tried using my 15" PowerBook a few weeks back and found it annoying, went straight back to my 17"

[IronPen]

I've been reading this thread hoping that it might help me answer the question: Is the 15" TiBook a good machine? I think I'll have to play with one to make the determination myself because there are so many conflicting statements. I think it will be plenty powerful for what I do. I have an iBook 500 Rev A now, but I'm afraid to get another one (G3) when it is the only machine in Apple's arsenal with a G3. Plus, the laptop is my only computer, which is why I'm hoping to get a G4, and the 15" screen would be nice, although the 12" isn't too small IMO. The L3 cache on the 15" as well as Gigabit Ethernet have me leaning that direction, but I've always read a lot about the denting case, paint chipping/flaking, hinge breaking, loud fan, heat, and the like which have kept me from buying this PB. What do the current TiBook owners think? I'm considering the 867 Superdrive, but would love the 1G...although it is more than I am willing to spend.

[Adham]

Three weeks into owning the little beauty, and it starts acting funky - after a couple of days of trying to figure out what it was, it would finally just bring me to the hardware failure screen on startup. Brought it down to the Apple Store where I bought it yesterday, and it looks to them like a bad logic board, so they're sending it in for service. We'll see how the turnaround time is on that - they're estimating a week or less.

After owning at least six Macs, this is the first with this serious a problem. Still gotta love it though - great machine. I can hardly wait for it to come back.

Adham

[Adham]

Almost forgot to say - 12" PB, Superdrive, 640MB RAM, 40 GB HD

Adham

[alpha rays max]

I was in your same situation two weeks ago. I had a Rev. A dual-USB iBook and was looking to step up a bit - its performance in OS X has never been what I would consider speedy.

I ended up getting a 15" 867 with the Combo Drive. (I have a Power Mac 733 as well so I figured it would be slightly cheaper to put a Superdrive in there - faster write speed too.)

So far, I'm really impressed with this machine. It feels fast. Obviously only time will tell about the paint issues, but I've not found the fan to be obnoxious. If you want something whisper quiet all the time... it might bother your sometimes? But it rarely cuts on anyway. Also it doesn't run any hotter than any other laptop I've ever used - and cooler than the Dell Latitude I used to have at work!

I bought it for the new education discounts, really. If I hadn't needed a new notebook now, I probably would've waited to see when/if they update the 15" to Al. But otherwise, I would recommend the TiBook.

Originally posted by IronPen:
I've been reading this thread hoping that it might help me answer the question: Is the 15" TiBook a good machine? I think I'll have to play with one to make the determination myself because there are so many conflicting statements.
...
What do the current TiBook owners think? I'm considering the 867 Superdrive, but would love the 1G...although it is more than I am willing to spend.

[IronPen]

Thanks, Alpha. Did you have a 500MHz iBook? And is the speed of the 867 G4 Ti that much faster? The thing is, I don't NEED a new laptop right away, but the EDU discounts are really good now, plus the $200 rebate on an iPod, so that makes for a very tempting offer at the price, which is the only reason I would consider buying now over waiting for the Al updates, which may or may not be that significant anyway. And then there's the whole waiting process for Apple to get enough hardware to fill the orders, shipping delays, heck, it could be another 4 months by the time an announcement is made and products arrive.

Trying to decide between the 12" and 15":

Pros:

15"
--
- Bigger screen
- L3 cache (will this make that much of a diff?)
- 2 RAM slots
- Gigabit ethernet

12"
--
- DDR RAM
- Airport Extreme (not a bid deal to me)
- Aluminum case/new hinge like iBook
- 24X CD burner (3x faster than 15")
- Less prone to dents/scratches
- $400 less than 15"

[wuf810]

Like mt Tibook before, 3 months in, the paint is wearing off on my 17" Ai. Just to the right of my trackpad where my wrist rests.

Guess I've got acid for sweat.

[Simon]

Originally posted by wuf810:
Like mt Tibook before, 3 months in, the paint is wearing off on my 17" Ai. Just to the right of my trackpad where my wrist rests.

Guess I've got acid for sweat.

I thought the Al wasn't painted but annodized.

I'm wondering what the "wearing-off" you see actually is if not paint?

[tonewheel]

On my 12": The fricking thing teeters while sitting on a level surface due to the battery not sitting flush. This is a common problem with 12" books. Also, USB connector is on the left hand side of the machine, which makes using an external mouse difficult (cord is too short, and has to wrap around from the right to the left.)

On my 17": The screen gets crushed into the computer when carrying it, due to the fact that there are no bumpers on the screen, like there are on the 12". I have since remedied that with some fabulous, clear bumpers purchased at Micro City.

Other than that, zero complaints.

[pdovinh]

Originally posted by jdhindes:
I don't like the fact that my Airport Extreme Base Station signal doesn't come back when I wake the 12" Powerbook from sleep until I click on the signal indicator. This is a pain everytime I wake the computer from sleep.

Jim

jdhindes: I got rid of this same problem after re-installing the system software and the updates.

pd

[NightEyes]

No problems here. My 17" has been great since I purchased it in March. Best Apple laptop I've owned save the Pismo.

[JasonQG]

Originally posted by slffl:
My gripe is that the blue of the DVI output on my 17" PB doesn't work, so I get a red picture. I sent it in and apparently someone had to go home early that friday because they put "could not reproduce" and it's still not working to this day.

Sure it's not a bad cable or something?

[rambo47]

1) I'd like to see left and right trackpad buttons ala the IBM ThinkPads.

2) I've never been happy with the feel of the keyboards. Perhaps they could be stronger, feel less flimsy.

3) Allow the replacement/upgrade of the graphics card. I don't know any laptops that allow this, but it would be cool if Apple did it.

[gdiddy]

Ok, been using my TiGiggaBook for the first time with an mouse attached and i wish they had routed the air flow in the opposite direction. hot air blowing out the right side and my thumb is getting warm.

Other than that I love this thing.

I could have bitched about the lack of DVD-R 2x, CD-R 16 and DVD-RW burning but now that my firmware has been updated thanks to Cynikal....

But seriously this hot thumb is getting old

Left handed people be damned!

[slimmy]

The WORST feature of the PB 15" are the hinges. They SUCK. Applecare won't cover them because it's wear and tear. Mine broke after 12 mos. of light use. So I have a broken PB (works but I can't close the damned lcd screen, not portable).

Slim

[Loopydude]

I have a 667MHz Ti from work.

My freakin' mom just got a new Thinkpad from work. It's got this spiffy vertical dock...she just slaps it down on the thing and voila, it's a desktop. I have a BookEndz dock that I can say, catagorically, is a piece of crap. It takes the strength of a grown man to properly "plug in" the Powerbook (if you don't, things like ethernet connection don't work, etc.). The Firewire port on the dock has NEVER worked (port on book works, hence the dock simply can't make the connection). Hey, remember the Duo, like a million years ago? Y'know the days when Apple had a dockable laptop? What happened?

Anyway, I've got Office for OSX, she's got Office XP. So I figure I'll do an experiment. How fast does Word launch on her Stinkpad? Anwer: Immediately. Powerpoint? Same. Excel? Ditto. So I download this massive PP presentation I've got online, with huge graphics imported into it, and scroll around the pics using her book and mine. Mine loses. Badly. I boot my book. After waiting what seems like an eternity for the spinning beachball of death to vanish, I boot up her book. It takes like 20 seconds, and I'm working with it. Her Thinkpad must boot up XP at least five times faster than my Powerbook boots OSX.

After further head-to-head comparisons of several real-world tasks, I must concede the awful truth: My mom's computer kicks my computer's @ss. My MOM'S. GROAN.

Later in the day, it occured to me: With the G4-driven Powerbook, Apple has broken Moore's Law, in a bad way. Meanwhile, Mobile P4 appears to be everything they say it is: Fast as hell. With the measly speed bump rumored to come soon with the Al 15", I can't even get excited. I've been too busy tapping my feet impatiently for yesterday's technology.

Shame on you, Apple. I don't care if it's Motorola being slow. It's your dumb decision to work with them, you take the blame, I'm afraid.

The lease on my TiBook is up in a few months. I want a portable, but I'm having a hard time justifying staying with the Mac (our workplace has both Wintel and Mac). Seems if I want decent speed, I gotta go with the Stinkpad. I don't want to, but Apple is forcing my hand.

[ima_pseudonym]

General: Unplugging a usb device wakes it from sleep. How many times have I closed the lid, then remembered to unplug my mouse, only to have to wake the thing up and sleep it again.

Waking when plugging in a keyboard I can understand, though.

[Simon]

Originally posted by Loopydude:
Anyway, I've got Office for OSX, she's got Office XP. So I figure I'll do an experiment. How fast does Word launch on her Stinkpad? Anwer: Immediately. Powerpoint? Same. Excel? Ditto. So I download this massive PP presentation I've got online, with huge graphics imported into it, and scroll around the pics using her book and mine. Mine loses. Badly.

Com'on. What do you expect from MS software? That it runs faster on a Mac than on XP?

It's a widely known issue that Office runs much faster on XP than on Macs. It has been discussed countless times.

There is software from other companies that would prove exactly the opposite. If you chose only MS' suite to base your opinion on that's rather silly.

I boot my book. After waiting what seems like an eternity for the spinning beachball of death to vanish, I boot up her book. It takes like 20 seconds, and I'm working with it. Her Thinkpad must boot up XP at least five times faster than my Powerbook boots OSX.

First, how come you need to boot your PowerBook so often that this would matter? Why not just put it to sleep?

And secondly, I believe something's wrong with your PowerBook if it takes more than 100 seconds to boot as you mentioned. My machines takes around 60 seconds maximum for a full boot albeit most of that time is spent in the grey screen. Once the blue screen appears, it's almost done.

Have you tried a clean install lately? Third-party hardware? Network connections that no longer exist? Permissions?

After further head-to-head comparisons of several real-world tasks, I must concede the awful truth: My mom's computer kicks my computer's @ss. My MOM'S. GROAN.

Well, your mommy's notebook is also a ThinkPad which happens to be one of the best PC notebooks there is. They are also very expensive. If the PowerBook would beat the Thinkpad at everything most notebook manufacturers other than Apple would be out of business.

Later in the day, it occured to me: With the G4-driven Powerbook, Apple has broken Moore's Law, in a bad way.

Maybe Moto broke it, but Apple certainly didn't. For more, see below.

Shame on you, Apple. I don't care if it's Motorola being slow. It's your dumb decision to work with them, you take the blame, I'm afraid.

You're right. It was Apple's decision so they have to take some blame. Certainly. But let's not forget that for PowerBooks this decision was a fine one at least till very recently (Centrino maybe). No Intel P4 or P4M offered so much performance with such low power requirements, thus running so cool. Intel's CPUs were either fast and battery-draining or battery-conserving but snail-slow.

This could be changing now. But keep in mind, that Apple is also not solely relying on Moto anymore (as the iBook's 750 or the G5's 970 show). They are far from losing this race.

The lease on my TiBook is up in a few months. I want a portable, but I'm having a hard time justifying staying with the Mac (our workplace has both Wintel and Mac). Seems if I want decent speed, I gotta go with the Stinkpad. I don't want to, but Apple is forcing my hand.

If speed is all you care about, you don't want a portable. And if it has to be the speediest portable no matter how expensive or how well the rest of the machine is, well, then get a PC alright.

However, you claim to only want decent speed which is something every modern PowerBook certainly offers.

I still firmly believe that no PC notebook offers similar overall perfomance (not just CPU, but also weight, battery, design, sub-systems, OS, etc.) for the price of Apple's PowerBooks. Some of IBM's Thinkpads may be a tough competition, but they are also nowhere near available for $1599.