[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by MacNStein

But, if there's no violence or implied threat, it's not rape

So, as long as the woman doesn't put up a fight, it's ok?

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak

So, as long as the woman doesn't put up a fight, it's ok?

In that situation, there's still implied threat.

If the person says no, and you continue, it's considered threatening.

[torsoboy]

i don't know how this could have happened either... unless he was drunk. i am married and if my wife try to get frisky in the middle of the night, i am awake in a flash! i don't think she could ever get that far without me waking up. MacNStein you must have been REALY tired to not wake up until you were in coitus.

one thing that makes it harder to accept a female being a raper is that the male has have an erection to have intercourse. that means that he has to be aroused... if a woman was coming on to me forefully that i was not attracted to, i don't think i would be aroused enough for her to have intercourse with me.

another thing that makes it harder to believe in a female raping a male is that most guys kinda dream of that kind of thing happening (having someone walk up to you and want to have sex with you), as opposed to girls seeming to dread it.

i don't really like the deffinition that Millennium's school had... seems like there are quite a few levels between touching someones butt and ripping their clothes off and forcing them to have sex with you. it is too broad of a statement in my oppinion.

[SimeyTheLimey]

Originally Posted by torsoboy

one thing that makes it harder to accept a female being a raper is that the male has have an erection to have intercourse. that means that he has to be aroused... if a woman was coming on to me forefully that i was not attracted to, i don't think i would be aroused enough for her to have intercourse with me.

Not that I know what the law is in Norway, but I don't think it follows that being aroused automatically translates to giving consent.

For example, suppose it is dark and you believe your wife is giving you a hummer and you are aroused by that. Then suppose you turn on the lights and discover it wasn't your wife giving you the hummer, it was Michael Jackson. Did the fact that you were aroused mean that you gave Michael Jackson consent to give you a blow job? I don't think so. You never gave Michael Jackson consent.

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by SimeyTheLimey

Not that I know what the law is in Norway, but I don't think it follows that being aroused automatically translates to giving consent.

That's precisely what I meant when I said that "physiological reactions" are usually involved. You have NO control over what causes arrousal most of the time, and the term "arrousal" describes more than just the physical engorgement of a man's penis. That physiological reaction can (as all of us men know) without any concious provocation on our part. The same is true with lubrication in women, a fact that male rapists take advantage of when they commit their crime. Just because this guy got hard does NOT mean that he enjoyed it. It means that his plumbing is working, that's ALL.

[Mafia]

needs pics.

[Oisín]

Originally Posted by SimeyTheLimey

Not that I know what the law is in Norway, but I don't think it follows that being aroused automatically translates to giving consent.

For example, suppose it is dark and you believe your wife is giving you a hummer and you are aroused by that. Then suppose you turn on the lights and discover it wasn't your wife giving you the hummer, it was Michael Jackson. Did the fact that you were aroused mean that you gave Michael Jackson consent to give you a blow job? I don't think so. You never gave Michael Jackson consent.

Originally Posted by Mafia

needs pics

No, please don't

[Millennium]

Originally Posted by torsoboy

one thing that makes it harder to accept a female being a raper is that the male has have an erection to have intercourse. that means that he has to be aroused... if a woman was coming on to me forefully that i was not attracted to, i don't think i would be aroused enough for her to have intercourse with me.

It's a common myth that erection implies arousal. An erection is nothing more than a consequence of increased blood flow to certain tissue known as erectile tissue, which is actually present in some other parts of the body than the genitals. The most common cause of this blood flow is arousal, but it is not the only possible cause. Simple friction, such as against clothing, can cause it, but another cause which I'm sure most of us males have experienced at one point or another is the transition from sleep to a waking state, a phenomenon colloquially known as 'morning wood'. Not all men undergo this phenomenon, but it is extremely common.

How interesting, then, that it would have happened to this guy as he was waking up, when he would have likely had an erection whether or not he was aroused. The point is that it is possible to rape a man without arousing him or using foreign objects; the methods involved tend to be a little more creative out of necessity, but it can be done.

[Severed Hand of Skywalker]

Originally Posted by Superchicken

You're sure he was born gay? Does his birth cert say that? Or did he have the gay stamp on his butt?

You're an idiot.

[Mafia]

Originally Posted by Ois�n

No, please don't

i meant of the woman to decide if she is butt-ugly, or if the man is just a whack job.

[ghporter]

I have just noticed that in all the posts about "I'd have just pushed her away," not one person has even considered whether she was in a position to restrain her victim. Surprise-it's possible for a smaller person to restrain a larger person, particularly if she has the advantage of surprise. Further, someone DID mention the possibility of a terrible biting accident. Wake up guys, this was a sudden issue for the guy, and it is entirely feasible that the woman had the upper hand, took what she wanted WITHOUT PERMISSION, and thus committed a serious crime.

Also note what Millenium said about the physiological reactions I mentioned. Once the chemical and nervous signals are going, the person has no control over the physiological results. Those results say absolutely NOTHING about how voluntary the event was, or whether or not it was enjoyable.

Finally, consider how much it took for the victim to report this crime. He would have had to put up with the same kind of juvenile "I bet you liked it" crap that we've seen here, and that from the police! (At least cops are getting better about receiving rape reports from females, but the same is probably not true anywhere when a male reports the same crime. Note that the story points out real physical evidence, belying the woman's original story that she hadn't touched him. Something happened, and she didn't want to even admit that she'd touched the man. I wonder why...

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by MacNStein

In that situation, there's still implied threat.

If the person says no, and you continue, it's considered threatening.

And if the person is unconscious?

[tavilach]

Originally Posted by dcmacdaddy

It's the reasons why you don't believe his story that has many of us troubled?
All these assumptions about men wanting free sex, men being too physically weak, men who can't be violated by a woman, etc. All these assumptions about woman->man rape reflect a general attitude about rape in general. And the people who will suffer most from that general attitude are the victims of man->woman rape. Sexual violation of another person is a crime NO MATTER WHO is the perpetrator.

Originally Posted by ghporter

Rape is a crime of violence committed against a person through the abuse of that person's genitals. It includes (usually) sexual physiology, often depending on reflexive reactions, but it is NOT SEX. Any person who makes use of another's genitals without the other's permission commits rape. Not only does "no" mean "no" but the lack of a "yes" means "no" too. The gender of the assailant and victim are completely irrelevant.

Oh, and the assailant was NOT a lady. She was female, probably a woman (as opposed to being a girl), but certainly not a "lady" any more than the random male you meet is a "gentleman."

These idiots were about to make me puke until I read your posts.

Get a grip, people. Have some humanity! Not every guy is out to get laid no matter the circumstances or consequences.

I'm prepared for comments like:

"Get off your high horse. You know you want pussy."
"You need to get laid...now."

Of course, these comments will only reiterate my point. You all disgust me.

[ASIMO]

Dear Abby,

This gal I barely knew blew me some years ago while I was in a stupor over too much liquor and illegal substances we shared. So she felt randy. I never consented, though I never protested. It was neither violent nor painful. Nor was I in any condition to take pleasure. Is this rape?


-Discombobulated.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by ghporter

Something happened, and she didn't want to even admit that she'd touched the man. I wonder why...

Because she didn't want to be thought loose? Since pretty much every date-rapist I've heard of has gone with the "She totally wanted it" defense right off the bat, the desire to keep her life private actually makes her look less guilty to me.

Honestly, I don't know jack about this case, and neither do any of you. Those news stories are both about three paragraphs long, and most of the information is duplicated between stories. I don't think there's enough evidence to decide what's what.

[Oisín]

Originally Posted by Chuckit

Because she didn't want to be thought loose? Since pretty much every date-rapist I've heard of has gone with the "She totally wanted it" defense right off the bat, the desire to keep her life private actually makes her look less guilty to me.

That seems very unlikely to me. Perhaps this is one of the aspects of this case where it actually does come somewhat into play that this took place in Norway; I think Scandinavians generally have a slightly different view of 'looseness' here than in the US. We don't tend to put that much weight on whether someone is 'loose' or not, it's just not important. And everyone knows that you can be as loose as the elastic in my old 7th grade swimtrunks, and that won't have any bearing whatsoever on the likelihood of you getting raped (especially date-raped).

Besides, once she was charged with raping the guy, there's pretty much no chance in hell for her to keep her life (or that part of it anyway) private anymore; it's all going to come out anyway, so lying about it (to the police no less, which is a crime) will not do much for her.

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak

And if the person is unconscious?

They do what I did. If they're completely unconscious, passed out, etc.. Then, yes, I can see how that would be rape, especially if the instigator knows that the person is in that state. Yes, boys and girls, if the person is incapacitated or in a coma, you don't jump their bones... a little common sense here, please.


As for my situation, let me clarify. This was my friend, and we'd "made out" (no intercourse) less than a year before. If I'd not been dating someone, I likely would have consented (she is cute). Also, as I said earlier, "I probably would have reacted sooner, but I was used to this type of thing with my GF at the time, so I suppose I subconsciously thought it was her".

[torsoboy]

Originally Posted by ghporter

That's precisely what I meant when I said that "physiological reactions" are usually involved. You have NO control over what causes arrousal most of the time, and the term "arrousal" describes more than just the physical engorgement of a man's penis. That physiological reaction can (as all of us men know) without any concious provocation on our part. The same is true with lubrication in women, a fact that male rapists take advantage of when they commit their crime. Just because this guy got hard does NOT mean that he enjoyed it. It means that his plumbing is working, that's ALL.

That's true, I probably wrote my comment too soon (faster than my brain could think about the whole situation maybe). I have, like all men, become erect with little to no arrousal. sorry about that comment.

[Millennium]

Originally Posted by ASIMO

Dear Abby,

This gal I barely knew blew me some years ago while I was in a stupor over too much liquor and illegal substances we shared. So she felt randy. I never consented, though I never protested. It was neither violent nor painful. Nor was I in any condition to take pleasure. Is this rape?

Yes. What does this mean? That's your call.

[wdlove]

Originally Posted by ASIMO

Dear Abby,

This gal I barely knew blew me some years ago while I was in a stupor over too much liquor and illegal substances we shared. So she felt randy. I never consented, though I never protested. It was neither violent nor painful. Nor was I in any condition to take pleasure. Is this rape?


-Discombobulated.

It doesn't seem like rape to me, neither one of you were able to consent or say no. Just the consequence of drugs. Your lucky that you didn't receive an STD.

[MilkmanDan]

STDs are over rated man.

[trip]

Originally Posted by Millennium

Quote:
Originally Posted by ASIMO
Dear Abby,

This gal I barely knew blew me some years ago while I was in a stupor over too much liquor and illegal substances we shared. So she felt randy. I never consented, though I never protested. It was neither violent nor painful. Nor was I in any condition to take pleasure. Is this rape?

Yes. What does this mean? That's your call.

Better yet: If a woman comes up to me and kisses me without my consent (protest or not) is this rape ?

[Oisín]

Originally Posted by trip

Better yet: If a woman comes up to me and kisses me without my consent (protest or not) is this rape ?

No. Kissing is not a sexual act per se, as it doesn't involve any sexual organs/genitalia.

[trip]

Originally Posted by Ois�n

No. Kissing is not a sexual act per se, as it doesn't involve any sexual organs/genitalia.

Ok guy is walking down the isle of the local grocery store. Not paying all that much attention to his surroundings, but rather thinking about what he's forgetting to get. Girl in front of him notices her shoe lace untied so she stops bends over to fix it. Guy - mosying along not paying attention:"BAM" walks into her bumping his parts to her parts forcing her to fall down. Rape ?

My point is that somewhere in the mess of a society we live in intention has to be accounted for. If we all had the same understanding of right/wrong, we wouldn't have half the problems we do.

I couldn't count the times I had a girl at home that has made a move on my parts, and they were not trying to rape me. They were trying to please me. And I don't put her in Jail if I didn't want it. I say WTF ! don't do that! - and move on.

Maybe this girl (original post) made a mistake in that he was asleep, but likely she was trying to please him. I find it hard to believe she thought he would stay asleep. Possible she had been led to believe he was interested before the "sleep" (people do in general have weak communications skills). I hope this is the case. I find it difficult to believe that her intentions were to harm.

Save jail for people trying to harm or decieve. IMHO

[Oisín]

Originally Posted by trip

Save jail for people trying to harm or decieve. IMHO

I agree, actually. Of course, she (the girl in this story) might be a vicious little b*tch (she is from Bergen, after all ) who wanted to break the guy and his girlfriend (did he have one? I forgot) up, or had some other ulterior and not-so-nice motive; we don't know that, 'cause we weren't there. But if she was just trying to please him, while it is still a sexual assault, I agree suing and sentencing her is over the top.

Same thing if a guy starts feeling up a girl - if she's not game, she should say no, not turn the guy in. I doubt it was that traumatic an experience for this guy, no matter how fugly the girl might have been.

[macanon]

A close guy friend of mine was raped in college by a girl. Basically, he was drunk, there was a girl in the house (because of a party), she hit on him a few times during the night. After going to bed alone, he wakes up in the middle of the night to her riding on top of him.
He pushed her off. End of story. But still tells the story quite a bit. It wasn't that she was fugly either, just that he didn't want to.

[fireside]

how come she only got 9 months? is that the standard 'rape sentence,' or are they just being lenient? i'm sure if a woman woke up to a guy performing oral sex on her he'd be getting years (atleast i would assume in USA, not so sure about rape laws in other countries).

Originally Posted by From the first link

Prosecutor Jarle Golten Sm�rdal said that he is only aware of one previous conviction of a woman for rape, and that case involved the accused and two men assaulting a 15-year-old girl.

why would a 15 year old girl being assaulted be charged with rape?

[Oisín]

Originally Posted by fireside

how come she only got 9 months? is that the standard 'rape sentence,' or are they just being lenient? i'm sure if a woman woke up to a guy performing oral sex on her he'd be getting years (atleast i would assume in USA, not so sure about rape laws in other countries).

Depending on the degree of seriousness of the rape (and this was a non-violent rape), 9 months isn't uncommonly short time. A guy just performing oral sex on her without her knowledge would probably not have gotten more.

why would a 15 year old girl being assaulted be charged with rape?

Hehe, I think you misread the text... The only other rape charge against a woman was a case where the accused (the woman), together with two men, had sexually assaulted a 15 year old girl, not the other way around

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by trip

Save jail for people trying to harm or decieve. IMHO

Again, rape is a crime of violence. The violence can be actual (the rapist beats up the victim beforehand), threatened (rapist holds knife to victim's throat), or implied (rapist holds victim down and using menacing voice demands victim hold still). It all still comes down to someone not taking NO for an answer and using force (actual, threatened or implied) to assault the victim.

I don't know about you, but the thought of sharp teeth on "Mr. Happy" makes me cringe. To wake up and find someone performing an act on me, when I had not granted permission for that person to perform that act, would be very startling and scary. There is nothing in the story about the victim's impression of what was happening, or of how he may have behaved, or of how the assailant may have threatened him. Since the police took the event seriously, I have to believe that there is much we will not see in the news that took place between assailant and victim.

Believe it or not, not every male is 100% interested 100% of the time in sexual activity. As I said earlier, the LACK OF A YES MEANS NO. That's how most statutes about rape are written. Rape is indeed harmful, and not just physically. The psychological effects on the victim are numerous and difficult to treat, and the way male victims are treated by police, the media, the public, whomever, makes their psychological treatment much more difficult.

[Destonius]

Man, girls can rape me all they want as long as they are clean and pretty.

[E's Lil Theorem]

Originally Posted by Destonius

Man, girls can rape me all they want as long as they are clean and pretty.

If you want it, it's not rape

[Destonius]

If they do it Metal Gear Solid style, it is. (maybe)
Tactical Espionage Action style, so I won't be expecting it at all.
(We all know that you never get laid when you want to or expect to )

[fireside]

Originally Posted by Ois�n

Hehe, I think you misread the text... The only other rape charge against a woman was a case where the accused (the woman), together with two men, had sexually assaulted a 15 year old girl, not the other way around

heh, yeah i did. i just read it again and it made sense.

[storer]

This whole thread speaks of why rape is so common:

MEN DON'T UNDERSTAND WHAT IT IS!

[Destonius]

Understand? You expect too much from us.
We are just hairless apes. Just look at presi..&$(

[storer]

Um... I am male too.... what I said was right though.

[trip]

dahum