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Charity worker Margaret Hassan murdered (Page 4)
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Originally posted by Cody Dawg:
Okay, kiddies, stop the fighting!
I HAVE THE SOLUTION.
Let's all chip in together, put our pennies together, and buy this.
We will send it over to Iraq and the magical goodness that it has will make everyone do the right things and will bring good fortune to all.
It kinda looks like Errol Flynn's "Robin Hood" to me.
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Originally posted by SubGeniux:
So we should determine how Muslims should live in this world? Conform to our standards, don't step out of line, and be a good little 'moderate' Western version of a Muslim. Someone who won't go against the grain, won't challemge the domination of other countries, etc.
Perhaps, we should let Muslims decide what they want to be, I mean, Muslims could, in theory, have a union like that in Europe and still not break any internatoinal laws. I'm always against others trying to put other people into boxes, it kinda makes me question the motives.
Hey, you have no argument with me. It is OSAMA BIN LADEN and his posse who have declared moderate Muslims and democratic, freedom loving peoples everywhere as rejecting the Quran and who need to be killed.
Then you should seriously question the motives of OBL and the terrorist insurgent leadership. ESPECIALLY if you are against "others trying to put other people into boxes" because his interpretation of Islam will put THOUSANDS in boxes.
Those boxes are called coffins.
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Originally posted by SubGeniux:
Just to go off on another tangent here, but I bet they are smiling in the Whitehouse right now about the death of this woman. I mean, I couldn't have timed this murder any better, just as the news of the American soldier killing that Iraqi in Fallujah. The timing couldn't have been better, the murder of a woman as the US embarks on a controversial mission in Fallujah. The CIA must be thinking, 'Ugh, why didn't we think of this?'.
Nice deflection, as usual, from any negative media attention towards the US.
This reminds me of Abu Ghraib. After that incident, we started seeing the kidnapping of these Western contractors.
Of course, I am just imagining what the folks in the Whitehouse/CIA must be thinking.
And, btw, what is al jazeera's explanation for showing the Marine video but not the Hassan shooting???
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Originally posted by DBursey:
Times change & interests shift, as do America's alliances with dictators, autocracies, theocracies, arms dealers and the like. America has no friends, only interests. The State Department has no principled foreign policy, projecting as it does a hodge-podge of mixed and contradictory signals, emasculating freedoms at home while selling patriotic tripe for home consumption in the sticks.
From the Washington Post:
Times change with the changes in Presidential Administrations.
What hasn't changed is America's unfailing desire and efforts to bring peace, self determinism and prosperity to the world and to do what's best for our people.
Question, what is the kind of FRIENDS you deride the US for not having? Name an example of a Canadian 'friend.'
A friend other than Canada's BEST friend, the USA; whose actions in pursuit of the noble causes I mentioned in the preceding paragraph, make it possible for you to have such a lofty holier than thou perch from which to pass judgment on US?
If we weren't who and what we are Canada would have either been invaded by any other neighbor (maybe repeatedly), or you'd be spending a hell of a lot more on your own national defense than you do.
Your brand of socialism wouldn't have sprouted or survived under those circumstances. You'd be singing a much different tune, today. My friend.
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Originally posted by aberdeenwriter:
If we weren't who and what we are Canada would have either been invaded by any other neighbor (maybe repeatedly), or you'd be spending a hell of a lot more on your own national defense than you do.
Who? Ze Germans?
Canada patrols the largest coast line in the border and the largest land border in the world. We are doing just fine thanks.
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Originally posted by aberdeenwriter:
Question, what is the kind of FRIENDS you deride the US for not having? Name an example of a Canadian 'friend.'
What he is doing is misquoting an aphorism usually attributed to Lord Palmerston
We have no eternal allies and we have no perpetual enemies. Our interests are perpetual and eternal and those interests it is our duty to follow. --Lord Palmerston, 1848
This is often rendered as nations don't have friends, they have interests.
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Originally posted by Disgruntled Head of C-3PO:
Who? Ze Germans?
Canada patrols the largest coast line in the border and the largest land border in the world. We are doing just fine thanks.
You're welcome.
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- Thomas Paine
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Originally posted by Spliffdaddy:
If I was a liberal I would feel compelled to distance myself from some of the younger leftist zealots in this forum. They do such a great disservice to the cause.
Not that I'm complaining, mind you. Since the leftist zealots only serve to reinforce my rightist beliefs. It's as if they're on MY side.
Carry on.
There are many examples in history where the loudest critics are unable to perform. They stand in the corner and throw stones, but when given the opportunity to put their money where their mouths are, they fail MISERABLY.
The Democrats can take credit for Vietnam, the rise in drug use and the welfare state in the US. They can take credit for dismantling our intelligence capability. Credit for giving China the technology to become an intercontinental nuclear threat.
Those are just a few things.
But generally speaking, the USA is faulted for HOW we attempted to do the wonderful things which no one else can, nor would they even try and that none should even question... i.e. protecting or helping to spread peace, prosperity and liberty throughout the world and to help others as well as ourselves.
The younger leftist zealots need to be constantly reminded of this. It takes a community of smart, patient, conservatives to raise a child beyond his childish, leftist, zealotry.
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The argument that says, 'Margaret Hassan would be alive were it not for the invasion and subsequent war,' is speculative folly.
Should we waste time and space grasping at hypotheticals?
I can imagine unlimited varieties of realistic twists of fate which would have Ms. Hassan alive and well even with the invasion, or sadly; kidnapped, hurt or worse without an invasion...any of which would counter any number of hypothetical arguments to the contrary.
Simey made the best point when, citing legal principle, he attributed the murderous actions to those directly involved.
That is the only undeniable. Had Hassan's murderers not killed her, she would be alive today.
To assert otherwise is a fantasy in search of a buyer.
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Originally posted by MacNStein:
You're welcome.
In thinking of a fitting response to C3PO's post, I met up with your simple eloquence and I yield in admiration.
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Originally posted by aberdeenwriter:
In thinking of a fitting response to C3PO's post, I met up with your simple eloquence and I yield in admiration.
I've been waiting for a Canadian "thank you" for quite some time now. I just feel so grateful that I lived long enough to see it. *sniff* *sniff*
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Originally posted by MacNStein:
I've been waiting for a Canadian "thank you" for quite some time now. I just feel so grateful that I lived long enough to see it. *sniff* *sniff*
Nice to feel needed eh?
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Hi aberdeenwriter: I see you're making up for lost time with your posts!
(I am dealing with a second case of flu in only 3 weeks. Yucko. )
I thought the face in the cheese sandwich was actually me. I couldn't figure out how they did it though!
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Originally posted by Disgruntled Head of C-3PO:
Nice to feel needed eh?
Nice to feel safe and protected, eh?
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You're a great American, Cody. And you're a great example of what it means to be an American. I remember when you gave up your place in the "flu shot" line so some elderly people could get them instead.
You made a sacrifice for others. Damn, I'm sorry about your illness, but I was and am proud of your generous spirit.
I wonder what your pup would do with that sandwich!
Haha
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Originally posted by aberdeenwriter:
Nice to feel safe and protected, eh?
I still don't know what you are protecting us from. The rest of the world doesn't hate us.
Care to explain who is sitting around waiting to invade Canada?
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Originally posted by SimeyTheLimey:
What he is doing is misquoting an aphorism usually attributed to Lord Palmerston
This is often rendered as nations don't have friends, they have interests.
Thanks for the info, Simey.
DB used the misaphorism in another debate and I didn't quibble with him about it. But now he's using it to try to bludgeon the US???
Nope.
I'm still wondering what kind of friendship he contends Canada has that we should emulate. It's like the kindergarten playground persuasion technique, "If you don't give me some of your candy I won't be your friend."
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Originally posted by Disgruntled Head of C-3PO:
I still don't know what you are protecting us from. The rest of the world doesn't hate us.
Care to explain who is sitting around waiting to invade Canada?
1) Had you a different kind of neighbor, one which wasn't as 'friendly' as the US, you might have had reason to worry about that neighbor trying to invade you over these many years.
2) Had there been foreign entities who wanted to invade you from outside the North American continent (what they could want of yours I can't imagine! lol Just kidding, I know you make a mean poutine!) they would have been (and probably have been) deterred in part, because they know that the US would have had to be reckoned with as well as the MIGHTY MAPLE LEAFS!
3) If the US were removed from hypothetical equation #2, Canada might have been abruptly removed from it's peace loving, holier than thou, but tranquil, bubble of socialist fantasy some time ago.
I think that explanation is what everyone else understood by my first post. But thanks for giving me reason to spell it out for you.
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Originally posted by aberdeenwriter:
1) Had you a different kind of neighbor, one which wasn't as 'friendly' as the US, you might have had reason to worry about that neighbor trying to invade you over these many years.
I think the only ones that call the US "Friendly" are other Americans. The rest of the world has other terms for them.
So you still haven't answered the question other then play pretend. Who wants to invade Canada or has even suggested such an idea. I have only heard of Americans suggesting such an idea.
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Originally posted by aberdeenwriter:
Thanks for the info, Simey.
DB used the misaphorism in another debate and I didn't quibble with him about it. But now he's using it to try to bludgeon the US???
Nope.
I'm still wondering what kind of friendship he contends Canada has that we should emulate. It's like the kindergarten playground persuasion technique, "If you don't give me some of your candy I won't be your friend."
The Lord Palmerston quote also has a rather specific context that makes it not relevant today with respect to the US. In the 19th Century, Britain's foreign policy was based on the idea that Britain would be a balancing power in Europe. When the Austro-Hungarians became to powerful, Britain would tend to ally itself with France. When France became to powerful, Britain would tend to shift its alliances to Austro-Hungary, and so on. That's what Lord Palmerston was talking about when he said Britain had no eternal allies, only eternal interests. It was a specific thing to do with the balance of power in Europe at the time, and Britain's place within it (or just off the coast of it). Germany under Bismarck used very much the same technique, until his successors screwed it up.
It's a lesson that was used more recently by the Nixon Administration when it played the China Card against the Soviet Union. Or perhaps more accurately, when China played the America card against the Soviet Union. In either event, it's one of those classical realist tour de force's that you learn about if you are studying international politics that sound great on paper, but don't apply universally. They certainly don't apply to the US today because there are really no other powers out there for the US to balance. If anything, what we might be seeing is smaller powers trying to play off one another to balance US.
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Hi Aberdeenwriter:
Gosh, I couldn't get a flu shot with all of those little old Democrats looking up at me. I felt bad that some of them were out of luck.
Anyway, as I'm hanging out in the bathroom feeling sick, I keep thinking of G.W. telling us all, "I'm not getting a flu shot this year either." Somehow I don't think G.W. will be spending flu time in the bathroom.
About that sandwich, I'm not sure he'd eat that, ya know? He's particular!
Okay, signing off and hitting the mattress again.
Bye, all.
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Originally posted by Disgruntled Head of C-3PO:
I think the only ones that call the US "Friendly" are other Americans. The rest of the world has other terms for them.
So you still haven't answered the question other then play pretend. Who wants to invade Canada or has even suggested such an idea. I have only heard of Americans suggesting such an idea.
Oh, sorry. You are right. Ok, you can retire your military now. They won't be needed. You don't have any reason to fear invasion nor protect yourselves because I can't name a possible threat to Canada.
By the way, since I can't name who might want to steal your car you can leave it unlocked at night with the key in the ignition.
And because I don't know what other criminals might bother you, why not retire the Mounties, let all your insurance policies lapse and leave your front door open when you leave the 'hoose.'
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Originally posted by SimeyTheLimey:
The Lord Palmerston quote also has a rather specific context that makes it not relevant today with respect to the US. In the 19th Century, Britain's foreign policy was based on the idea that Britain would be a balancing power in Europe. When the Austro-Hungarians became to powerful, Britain would tend to ally itself with France. When France became to powerful, Britain would tend to shift its alliances to Austro-Hungary, and so on. That's what Lord Palmerston was talking about when he said Britain had no eternal allies, only eternal interests. It was a specific thing to do with the balance of power in Europe at the time, and Britain's place within it (or just off the coast of it). Germany under Bismarck used very much the same technique, until his successors screwed it up.
It's a lesson that was used more recently by the Nixon Administration when it played the China Card against the Soviet Union. Or perhaps more accurately, when China played the America card against the Soviet Union. In either event, it's one of those classical realist tour de force's that you learn about if you are studying international politics that sound great on paper, but don't apply universally. They certainly don't apply to the US today because there are really no other powers out there for the US to balance. If anything, what we might be seeing is smaller powers trying to play off one another to balance US.
I'm more informed because of you. BTW, has anyone here ever thanked you for imparting the knowledge you do?
Thank you.
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Originally posted by aberdeenwriter:
Oh, sorry. You are right. Ok, you can retire your military now. They won't be needed. You don't have any reason to fear invasion nor protect yourselves because I can't name a possible threat to Canada.
By the way, since I can't name who might want to steal your car you can leave it unlocked at night with the key in the ignition.
And because I don't know what other criminals might bother you, why not retire the Mounties, let all your insurance policies lapse and leave your front door open when you leave the 'hoose.'
I was under the impression that criminality is lower in Canada.
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Originally posted by Cody Dawg:
Hi Aberdeenwriter:
Gosh, I couldn't get a flu shot with all of those little old Democrats looking up at me. I felt bad that some of them were out of luck.
Anyway, as I'm hanging out in the bathroom feeling sick, I keep thinking of G.W. telling us all, "I'm not getting a flu shot this year either." Somehow I don't think G.W. will be spending flu time in the bathroom.
About that sandwich, I'm not sure he'd eat that, ya know? He's particular!
Okay, signing off and hitting the mattress again.
Bye, all.
Yeah, I remember the little old dems who yelled at you blaming GW for the flu vaccine shortage! What can ya do? Sigh!
As for GW not spending flu time in the VC (I think thas Freeench fer baffroom) he probably shields himself from contact with Dems and probably has little regular physical contact (now that the campigning is done) with the blessed (but often 'grubby') "wee ones." LOL
Hope you feel better!
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Originally posted by SimpleLife:
I was under the impression that criminality is lower in Canada.
"After Australia and England and Wales, the highest prevalence of crime was in Holland (25 percent), Sweden (25 percent) and Canada (24 percent). The United States, despite its high murder rate, was among the middle ranking countries with a 21 percent victimization rate," the London Telegraph said."
also, England's crime rate is believed to be higher than reported - since multiple crimes of the same nature in the same vicinity are counted as one crime. Six car-jackings on the same night might be considered one crime. A string of burglaries in one neighborhood could also be one crime.
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Originally posted by SimpleLife:
I was under the impression that criminality is lower in Canada.
See? All the more reason to retire the police! After all, I can't name the threat, so there must not be one. Eh?
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Originally posted by aberdeenwriter:
Oh, sorry. You are right. Ok, you can retire your military now. They won't be needed. You don't have any reason to fear invasion nor protect yourselves because I can't name a possible threat to Canada.
No, like I said the Canadian coast guard and Army protect both the largest land boarder and coastline in the world. They do it all without the help of the USA.
We have plenty of Americans trying to sneak over the boarder and illegal fishing going on.
But please name a country that would like to invade Canada.
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Originally posted by Spliffdaddy:
"After Australia and England and Wales, the highest prevalence of crime was in Holland (25 percent), Sweden (25 percent) and Canada (24 percent). The United States, despite its high murder rate, was among the middle ranking countries with a 21 percent victimization rate," the London Telegraph said."
also, England's crime rate is believed to be higher than reported - since multiple crimes of the same nature in the same vicinity are counted as one crime. Six car-jackings on the same night might be considered one crime. A string of burglaries in one neighborhood could also be one crime.
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Posted on : 11-18-2004 02:47 PM __
------------------------------------------------------------------------
quote:
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Originally posted by aberdeenwriter:
Nice to feel safe and protected, eh?
------------------------------------------------------------------------
I still don't know what you are protecting us from. The rest of the world doesn't hate us.
Care to explain who is sitting around waiting to invade Canada?
Doesn't matter, Spliffdaddy. I can't name the invader or the threat and the world doesn't hate Canada. So I guess they can do away with all the military and law enforcement agencies.
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Originally posted by aberdeenwriter:
See? All the more reason to retire the police! After all, I can't name the threat, so there must not be one. Eh?
Another good exemple of oversimplification. With some sarcasm.
Not much value, don't you think?
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Originally posted by Disgruntled Head of C-3PO:
But please name a country that would like to invade Canada.
Alaska.
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Originally posted by Disgruntled Head of C-3PO:
No, like I said the Canadian coast guard and Army protect both the largest land boarder and coastline in the world. They do it all without the help of the USA.
We have plenty of Americans trying to sneak over the boarder and illegal fishing going on.
But please name a country that would like to invade Canada.
Those countries CAN'T be named because Canada's mighty Coast Guard and Army make any attempt at invasion suicidal and so there has never been any attempt to invade.
And this safety you Canadians enjoy is ENTIRELY due to your:
Military expenditures - percent of GDP: 1.1% (2003) !
Listen C-3, this whole thing is making me see double!
It's off-topic, too. So, let's call it quits for here and now. OK?
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Originally posted by AKcrab:
Alaska.
Thanks for a very good laugh!
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Originally posted by aberdeenwriter:
Thanks for a very good laugh!
It's off-topic, too. So, let's call it quits for here and now. OK?
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Originally posted by SimpleLife:
Another good exemple of oversimplification. With some sarcasm.
Not much value, don't you think?
I can think of several responses to your post, based on the number of possible messages you are trying to convey.
Please clarify your comment.
My request is hereby, withdrawn.
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Canada has Britain for protection. Not to mention the rest of the world would never allow any sort of invasion.
Or shall we say Sweden hasn't been invaded because of the US?
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"Curse my metal body, I wasn't fast enough!"
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Mac Elite
Join Date: Nov 2004
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Originally posted by aberdeenwriter:
See? All the more reason to retire the police! After all, I can't name the threat, so there must not be one. Eh?
You are exagerating again: "There is no crime in Canada, therefore there is no need for police." All I said was that I had the belief (right or wrong) that crime is lower...
You have to add "Eh?" as if all canadians used the "Eh?" expression.
Overgeneralizations again.
Is this clearer now?
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Mac Elite
Join Date: Nov 2004
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Originally posted by aberdeenwriter:
Please clarify your comment.
My request is hereby, withdrawn.
"Do but don't".
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Posting Junkie
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: South of the Mason-Dixon line
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As long as you feel safe, that's all that matters.
Being safe and feeling safe are the same thing, right?
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Mac Elite
Join Date: Nov 2004
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Originally posted by Spliffdaddy:
As long as you feel safe, that's all that matters.
Being safe and feeling safe are the same thing, right?
It all depends of what you are refering to.
Being safe is a state that comes from a certain level of perception.
Feeling safe is a process that depends of your perception.
What you are trying to say is, I believe, one can feel safe from his/her own point of view, but other people may have a completely different perception because of their point of view.
I.e.: a smiling and excited kid at the top of the fridge looking for the cookie jar while the mother yells her heart out of concern.
Spliffdaddy, let me ask you this question:
Are you a Mother? And if true, are all Americans Mothers as well?
Just curious...
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Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Aberdeen, WA
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Originally posted by Spliffdaddy:
As long as you feel safe, that's all that matters.
Being safe and feeling safe are the same thing, right?
In the interest of thread integrity I'm willing to let it go. He and/or they, can live happily with whatever perception suits him/them.
This discussion is off-topic in this thread.
Thanks, Spliffdaddy.
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Consider these posts as my way of introducing you to yourself.
Proud "SMACKDOWN!!" and "Golden Troll" Award Winner.
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Mac Elite
Join Date: Nov 2004
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I believe we should bring it back on track!
Originally posted by Cody Dawg:
I'm glad this thread is here because if not, I'd have started it.
All I can say is that it makes me feel even better that we're over there getting those ba^stards.
All that hubbub about shooting "a poor innocent Iraqi" sort of merges with this one, because the truth is that those ba^stards that are shooting at and fighting against our American soldiers are the same exact people who are involved, tacitly or explicitly, with killing innocent people in this manner.
Killing Hassan, someone who did nothing but minister to the poor and sick for 30 years in Iraq, is absolutely one of the most evil and satanic things I've ever known.
Honestly, Muslims around the world should be ashamed that these people say that they are doing it in the name of their "religion."
Pffft.
Actually, I'd say that Humanity should be ashamed to have humans treated that way, as well have Human beings led to believe they could act that way.
Let's put aside the religion, because it is only accessory to murder; Human beings looking for power led too far in their objectives to the point of losing the best of their humanity is what this is all about imho...
That a Humanitarian worker was killed in such a context says a lot about the level of degradation and violence occuring in Iraq. There is no doubt that such people should just get out of there, for they represent too much of the invaders, from the insurgents point of view, which makes them victims of choice.
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Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Aberdeen, WA
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Originally posted by SimpleLife:
I believe we should bring it back on track!
Actually, I'd say that Humanity should be ashamed to have humans treated that way, as well have Human beings led to believe they could act that way.
Let's put aside the religion, because it is only accessory to murder; Human beings looking for power led too far in their objectives to the point of losing the best of their humanity is what this is all about imho...
That a Humanitarian worker was killed in such a context says a lot about the level of degradation and violence occuring in Iraq. There is no doubt that such people should just get out of there, for they represent too much of the invaders, from the insurgents point of view, which makes them victims of choice.
Preventing them from doing their work would tend to further the suffering of the Iraqi people. But, I agree it is necessary for people like Hassan to act in a way to assure their own safety.
Self preservation aside, I think many lessons are being learned by the Iraqi people. Among them are the lessons of cause and effect. I have NO DOUBT Hassan's death is being discussed by the Iraqi people even as you read this. Freedom is not free and everyone involved is paying a price. And learning more than one lesson.
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Consider these posts as my way of introducing you to yourself.
Proud "SMACKDOWN!!" and "Golden Troll" Award Winner.
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Mac Elite
Join Date: Nov 2004
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Originally posted by aberdeenwriter:
Preventing them from doing their work would tend to further the suffering of the Iraqi people. But, I agree it is necessary for people like Hassan to act in a way to assure their own safety.
Self preservation aside, I think many lessons are being learned by the Iraqi people. Among them are the lessons of cause and effect. I have NO DOUBT Hassan's death is being discussed by the Iraqi people even as you read this. Freedom is not free and everyone involved is paying a price. And learning more than one lesson.
I am not sure they are learning the lesson you think are learning.
But you have the right to think what you think.
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Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Aberdeen, WA
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Originally posted by SimpleLife:
I am not sure they are learning the lesson you think are learning.
But you have the right to think what you think.
Yes, I have the right to think what I think. After all we don't live under Quranic rule quite yet.
And what 'lesson' (note that I used the plural form in my post) do you think I think they are learning, hmm?
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Consider these posts as my way of introducing you to yourself.
Proud "SMACKDOWN!!" and "Golden Troll" Award Winner.
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Mac Elite
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: London
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Originally posted by aberdeenwriter:
Should we waste time and space grasping at hypotheticals?
Originally posted by aberdeenwriter:
3) If the US were removed from hypothetical equation #2...
lol
I couldn't possibly imagine you waste a lot of time coming up with this stuff. But damn, you use an awful lot of space!
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Dedicated MacNNer
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Olympia, WA
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Clearly you only doubt aw because he hasn't been gracious enough to show you who you really are yet.
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Mac Elite
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: London
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Originally posted by anti-sleep:
Clearly you only doubt aw because he hasn't been gracious enough to show you who you really are yet.
yeah, that'll be it!
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Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Aberdeen, WA
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Originally posted by anti-sleep:
Clearly you only doubt aw because he hasn't been gracious enough to show you who you really are yet.
LOL
He shall continue to wander in the desert of his delusions without my help, interference or participation.
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Consider these posts as my way of introducing you to yourself.
Proud "SMACKDOWN!!" and "Golden Troll" Award Winner.
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Mac Elite
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: London
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Originally posted by aberdeenwriter:
LOL
He shall continue to wander in the desert of his delusions without my help, interference or participation.
ha ha! however will i survive without such wisdom?
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