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subego · Apr 6, 2018, 06:25 PM

Just because I feel the Democratic Party isn’t paying enough attention to 2020 doesn’t mean we have to.

First question.

Liz Warren. I like her. If I went along with this two-party thing, I’d have no problem voting for her.

Her biggest creative challenge is the Pocahontas label. What’s the best strategy?

andi*pandi · Apr 7, 2018, 04:20 PM

Her biggest problem is she's a smart woman, and some people hate that. As for Pocahontas... she's spoken in front of Native Peoples and pledged to do more for their interests. Natives are not too happy about the Pocahontas nickname either. I don't see her going the blood test route, even if she did, there'd be conspiracy theorists who wouldn't believe it. The tests are not very accurate for native ancestry, due to lack of diversity of samples. Having similar stories in my family, yet looking very Irish, I completely believe her.

Anyway, she's not running. The dems like having her as a warrior, not chief.

Which leaves Oprah? Who else?

subego · Apr 7, 2018, 07:02 PM

The Democrats sunk Oprah’s chances by running the full-court press on “we care about qualifications”.

subego · Apr 7, 2018, 07:22 PM

Originally Posted by andi*pandi

Natives are not too happy about the Pocahontas nickname either...

Having similar stories in my family, yet looking very Irish, I completely believe her.

Here’s where I draw the dividing line.

If the person gets to decide for themselves whether the Pocahontas label is offensive, they can call themselves Native American. If not, they’re not.

Warren doesn’t.

Waragainstsleep · Apr 7, 2018, 09:07 PM

Originally Posted by subego

The Democrats sunk Oprah’s chances by running the full-court press on “we care about qualifications”.

Thats ok because the Republicans have rendered hypocrisy a non-issue. Not to mention standing for anything you claim to stand for that isn't a tax break.

subego · Apr 7, 2018, 09:39 PM

Republicans have rendered hypocrisy a non-issue for themselves.

Democrats aren’t good at that game. If they were, they’d be Republicans.

See: Al Franken. That chess piece was in position, BTW.

subego · Apr 8, 2018, 02:40 PM

Originally Posted by andi*pandi

Anyway, she's not running.

Ding! Ding! Ding!

She just announced her no-candidacy.

I still find the Pocahontas thing fascinating.

Thorzdad · Apr 8, 2018, 03:47 PM

Originally Posted by subego

I still find the Pocahontas thing fascinating.

How so? Claiming that one has a small bit of native american blood in their background isn’t at all unusual. That Trump threw an ethnic slur her way isn’t, sadly, unusual either. What’s fascinating about it?

The Final Dakar · Apr 8, 2018, 08:20 PM

How does Warren poll with men? Does she not suffer from the same attacks as Hillary (shrill, etc.)

Originally Posted by andi*pandi

The dems like having her as a warrior, not chief.

Yeah, I said that during 2016. Hindsight is 20/20.

Originally Posted by subego

The Democrats sunk Oprah’s chances by running the full-court press on “we care about qualifications”.

I mean, on science and medicine her track record is Green Partyesque

Originally Posted by subego

See: Al Franken. That chess piece was in position, BTW.

The democrats didn't do anything to put Franken in position. He did that himself.

subego · Apr 9, 2018, 06:34 PM

Originally Posted by Thorzdad

How so? Claiming that one has a small bit of native american blood in their background isn’t at all unusual. That Trump threw an ethnic slur her way isn’t, sadly, unusual either. What’s fascinating about it?

My instincts tell me were Warren to run nationally, that label would damage her the same way “low energy” did Jeb. A barb which sinks so deep it can never be pulled out. Had it been possible to aim it at Trump himself, “basket of deplorables” would also be in that category.

What makes these so much better than the garden variety, like “crooked Hillary” or “Cheeto”, fascinates me.

andi*pandi · Apr 10, 2018, 10:51 AM

Scott Brown thought that would sink her, but he loooooost bigly. Except now he gets to be in New Zealand, so I don't feel too bad for him.

subego · Apr 10, 2018, 02:02 PM

Did Brown use the label?

It’s not the quality of the payload causing the damage in these circumstances, it’s efficiency of the delivery package.

We didn’t need Trump to tell us Jeb was a wet noodle, we already knew that. It’s the way the package virally delivered the information, on target, over and over and over again.

andi*pandi · Apr 10, 2018, 02:38 PM

Brown started the label when he ran against her for senator.

subego · Apr 10, 2018, 02:44 PM

Well, then his other problem was running in Massachusetts instead of nationally.

subego · Apr 10, 2018, 02:52 PM

Originally Posted by andi*pandi

Brown started the label when he ran against her for senator.

I want to defer to your proximity, but I can’t find a single citation for this.

andi*pandi · Apr 10, 2018, 02:53 PM

One doesn't usually jump from state legislature to president without some other steps in between.

subego · Apr 10, 2018, 02:55 PM

Originally Posted by andi*pandi

One doesn't usually jump from state legislature to president without some other steps in between.

Yes, but my point remains the barb sinks deeper on a national stage.

andi*pandi · Apr 10, 2018, 03:07 PM

I cannot find a clip of Brown himself saying it, true... but his campaign led the story, he pushed on it, the papers and such were full of the nickname, indian puns, etc, well before Trump. Trump recycled it. It was the Massachusetts version of the "birther" story in 2012.

https://lesbianconservative.com/2012...ntas-in-polls/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xzf2WIJgxwI

subego · Apr 10, 2018, 03:47 PM

Is there a possibility this fits the now dead paradigm where the candidate tries to stay clean, and leaves name-calling to surrogates?

Like McCain’s hypothetical black baby. Bush never said that himself.

I’m positive the reason we saw “low energy” do its magic was it came directly from Trump.

andi*pandi · Apr 10, 2018, 04:32 PM

I would believe so. I would believe the GOP and the RWM would propagate such things instead.

Trump has a knack for the alliterative 3rd grade insult, true. What's puzzling is why grownups are falling for it.

Waragainstsleep · Apr 10, 2018, 05:10 PM

Originally Posted by andi*pandi

Trump has a knack for the alliterative 3rd grade insult, true. What's puzzling is why grownups are falling for it.

Grownups. Good one.

The Final Dakar · Apr 10, 2018, 07:37 PM

Originally Posted by andi*pandi

I would believe so. I would believe the GOP and the RWM would propagate such things instead.

Trump has a knack for the alliterative 3rd grade insult, true. What's puzzling is why grownups are falling for it.

Come on andi, aren't you in or near the industry? Catchy mottos work on adults for advertising, why not for politicians?

subego · Apr 10, 2018, 08:26 PM

Originally Posted by andi*pandi

What's puzzling is why grownups are falling for it.

I don’t find it puzzling.

There’s something very forced about political insults. Like they’re trying too hard or something. I can heft one and tell by the balance I’m not killing shit with it.

When I pick this up, I can tell I’m holding a murder weapon.

What I don’t know is what makes this a natural extension of my hand while the others feel like dead weight.

andi*pandi · Apr 12, 2018, 12:49 PM

It's amazing to me the people who hate Warren, when she's fought for consumers. Here she is very politely ripping into the swamp-dweller is gleefully gutting the consumer protection agency in favor of banks and industry.

http://www.bostonglobe.com/news/poli....html#comments

subego · Apr 12, 2018, 03:25 PM

Giving this the once-over, I feel like Warren wants to protect people from dangerous credit.

This is a laudable goal, but AFAICT, Warren’s solution is replacing dangerous credit with no credit. Which really sucks if you need credit.

Maybe that’s still the best idea anyway, but it’s not so without fault Warren can get on her ****in’ high horse about it.

subego · Apr 13, 2018, 12:40 AM

Originally Posted by subego

There’s something very forced about political insults. Like they’re trying too hard or something.

Points to “lyin’ Comey”.

The Final Dakar · Apr 13, 2018, 11:59 AM

Political insults are like roasts - only work when they latch onto something everyone has noticed, if only subconsciously.

andi*pandi · Apr 13, 2018, 12:09 PM

Originally Posted by subego

This is a laudable goal, but AFAICT, Warren’s solution is replacing dangerous credit with no credit. Which really sucks if you need credit.

I don't think blocking unscrupulous payday lenders will prevent other lenders from doing business, but perhaps they will have learned to be more transparent about future finger breakage.

subego · Apr 13, 2018, 12:16 PM

Originally Posted by The Final Dakar

Political insults are like roasts - only work when they latch onto something everyone has noticed, if only subconsciously.

“Cadet Bone Spurs” fits that definition, and is still this horrible, forced, try-hard, piece of shit.

subego · Apr 13, 2018, 12:18 PM

Originally Posted by andi*pandi

I don't think blocking unscrupulous payday lenders will prevent other lenders from doing business, but perhaps they will have learned to be more transparent about future finger breakage.

Other lenders don’t lend to people with bad credit.

andi*pandi · Apr 13, 2018, 12:34 PM

Hence my mob reference, but seriously have all payday lenders been shut down? I didn't get that impression. Were all of them rooking people?

How do we borrow money? For me, in order of desperation:

credit unions (better rates)
banks
parents
inlaws
college roommates
fake gofundme
shady people
boy/girlfriends

frankly I don't even know how payday lending is a thing. It even sounds disreputable.

subego · Apr 13, 2018, 01:23 PM

Originally Posted by andi*pandi

frankly I don't even know how payday lending is a thing.

“I mean, it’s one banana, Michael. What could it cost? Ten dollars?”

subego · 02:11 PM

Originally Posted by andi*pandi

Hence my mob reference, but seriously have all payday lenders been shut down?

IIUC, and I’ll admit I didn’t dig too deep, they’re capped.

If someone gets “too many”, then they’re not allowed more.

Laminar · Apr 13, 2018, 02:04 PM

Originally Posted by subego

“Cadet Bone Spurs” fits that definition, and is still this horrible, forced, try-hard, piece of shit.

That kind of thing doesn't change minds, and it only discredits you to someone who could otherwise be convinced by truth.

subego · Apr 13, 2018, 02:28 PM

That one is bad enough it actually manages to convey Tammy’s misplaced, smug self-satisfaction for writing the sickest burn ever.

The Final Dakar · Apr 13, 2018, 04:05 PM

Originally Posted by Laminar

That kind of thing doesn't change minds, and it only discredits you to someone who could otherwise be convinced by truth.

KKKlinton, Shrub, Obummer

That said, I have a hard time letting go of Rinse Pubis

subego · 11:16 PM

Obummer is extremely stupid. I thought the best insult was just calling him “Barry”.

KKKlinton doesn’t even make sense. For (President) Hilldawg I really liked “Wicked Witch of the West Wing”, but that’s very unwieldy.

Shrub is okay, but got overplayed. For him, I felt the best insult was imitating his laugh.

Why call someone already named “Reince Priebus” a different bad name?

subego · Apr 13, 2018, 11:14 PM

I like Ku Klux Keebler, but it’s impossible to say, and is ultimately too vicious. He’s bad, but jeez... not Klansman bad.

I also like Christie Kreme, but it doesn’t go anywhere because it isn’t ideological.