Welcome to the MacNN Forums.

spacefreak · Jan 19, 2010, 10:38 PM

Looks like they are calling it for Scott Brown over Martha Coakley. Brown made up more than 30 points in 60 days. That's quite a margin to overcome.

BOSTON – In an epic upset in liberal Massachusetts, Republican Scott Brown rode a wave of voter anger to defeat Democrat Martha Coakley in a U.S. Senate election Tuesday that left President Barack Obama's health care overhaul in doubt and marred the end of his first year in office.

GOP's Brown wins Mass. Senate seat in epic upset - Yahoo! News

turtle777 · Jan 19, 2010, 10:52 PM

So, question is: Will the Democrats GET it ?

-t

Captain Obvious · Jan 19, 2010, 11:04 PM

So much for leveraging Kennedy's legacy

smacintush · Jan 19, 2010, 11:09 PM

No. Their leadership has demonstrated extreme arrogance and an unwillingness to hear anything but their own thoughts and voices.

smacintush · Jan 19, 2010, 11:10 PM

Originally Posted by Captain Obvious

So much for leveraging Kennedy's legacy

His legacy was vastly overstated.

Rush was right, his death DID have a profound effect on the healthcare reform movement.

Snow-i · Jan 19, 2010, 11:31 PM

boston tea party mk II

OldManMac · Jan 20, 2010, 12:02 AM

Nothing to panic about.

PANIC!!! | The New Republic

Buckaroo · Jan 20, 2010, 12:03 AM

Do you think that the Democrats are getting the message?

Sen. Jim Webb [D]: 'Suspend further votes on health care legislation until Senator-elect Brown is seated'

On to Plan C - Ben Smith - POLITICO.com

I get the impression that Sen. Jim Webb is running for re-election and is starting to see the light.

I just wish there was some way to get the message to Ted Kennedy of the results of this election. I'll bet he is twirling in his grave like a pin wheel in a hurricane.

turtle777 · Jan 20, 2010, 12:12 AM

Representative Debbie Wasserman Schultz (D - FL)

Health Care was NOT the decisive issue, because most people in Massachusetts already have Health Care.

Those f*cking idiots don't get it, like I said before.

-t

spacefreak · Jan 20, 2010, 12:18 AM

Originally Posted by Buckaroo

I just wish there was some way to get the message to Ted Kennedy of the results of this election. I'll bet he is twirling in his grave like a pin wheel in a hurricane.

Yeah, but if he's buried next to his brothers, I think perhaps it's they who are getting the last laugh, especially JFK, for his positions today would be considered solidly conservative.

The health care battle isn't anywhere near finished. I just wish we could give the uninsured some medical debit cards and save the better part of a trillion dollars. George Will idea.

imitchellg5 · Jan 20, 2010, 12:20 AM

Wow, winning on a wave of anger... that must be a happy victory.

olePigeon · Jan 20, 2010, 12:20 AM

Originally Posted by Captain Obvious

So much for leveraging Kennedy's legacy

Still plenty of time to hit the booze and kill hookers.

smacintush · Jan 20, 2010, 12:33 AM

Originally Posted by imitchellg5

Wow, winning on a wave of anger... that must be a happy victory.

When it's anger at the current Democrat policies…yeah.

Buckaroo · Jan 20, 2010, 01:54 AM

Originally Posted by smacintush

When it's anger at the current Democrat policies…yeah.

There is a problem with their policy, but the real problem is the way they are cramming it down our throats without including all the Republican Senators and Congressmen in the plan.

These plans (bills) were voted on without one single congressman or senator (Democrat and Republican) fully aware of what were in them. When asked for it to be read allowed in session, it was shot down. They were in such a hurry to get garbage created, that they didn't think of the big picture. They lost sight of the citizens and their view on the subject.

Buckaroo · Jan 20, 2010, 02:02 AM

I believe that there is only one way that the Democrat Senators and Congressmen can signal a complete change in their attitude and are worthy of re-election, and that is to remove Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid from their position and replace them with moderates. Otherwise, it ain't going to look pretty in November.

Shaddim · Jan 20, 2010, 02:38 AM

Wow, the Dems seized defeat from the jaws of victory.

Scott Brown for Pres in 2012.

Watch for it!

rambo47 · Jan 20, 2010, 12:02 PM

Obama goes to New Jersey to support Corzine: Corzine (the favorite) loses.

Obama goes to Massachusetts to support Coakley: Coakely (the favorite) loses.

I see a pattern developing, and it doesn't look good for Obama or the Dems. Obama's approval rating is dipping to a new low, and the rats are jumping off the sinking ship!

ObamaApproval Rating (CBS)

besson3c · Jan 20, 2010, 01:24 PM

Originally Posted by rambo47

Obama goes to New Jersey to support Corzine: Corzine (the favorite) loses.

Obama goes to Massachusetts to support Coakley: Coakely (the favorite) loses.

I see a pattern developing, and it doesn't look good for Obama or the Dems. Obama's approval rating is dipping to a new low, and the rats are jumping off the sinking ship!

ObamaApproval Rating (CBS)

The ship sinking is pretty inevitable, it doesn't really matter whether Obama or a Republican is in office. If anybody thinks that there is a Republican (or Democrat) alive that can reverse course on our unhealthy lifestyles, our personal spending and consumption, our free market economy run amuck (e.g. bank/auto failures), our military obligation abroad, our debt, our failing schools, our lack of jobs, etc. I have a bridge to sell you, I'm afraid.

We can bicker all day about who or what might reverse course on one or more of these things, but the total picture? This ship is going down, and this election never did begin to change that.

ort888 · Jan 20, 2010, 02:19 PM

A surprisingly low amount of fapping going on in this thread.

Come on people, I expect more!

OAW · Jan 20, 2010, 03:05 PM

Didn't Scott Brown support health care reform in Massachusetts that is very similar to the national health care reform that he is now opposing?

OAW

olePigeon · Jan 20, 2010, 03:05 PM

Here, this'll get the fapping started:

stupendousman · Jan 20, 2010, 03:06 PM

I mentioned a year ago that I saw signs that the Democrats where setting themselves up for another 1994ish shellacking and if they didn't start moderating their tone and the way they were governing, that things where not going to be pretty for them come the next election cycle. They've WAY overplayed their hands from the get-go and it's not really a surprise what's been happening.

The question is whether Obama or someone with some leadership skills will have a "Bill Clinton Moment™" and start engaging more from the center where they can peel off the extremes from both parties, get their approval numbers back up, and not lose worse than they would otherwise. I'm not sure that Obama, Pelosi or Reid are up to it though. They all seemed too married to left-wing policy initiatives to give the American people what they really want.

Chuckit · Jan 20, 2010, 03:19 PM

Originally Posted by Captain Obvious

So much for leveraging Kennedy's legacy

We don't know. Brown could still kill a woman and get away with it.

OAW · Jan 20, 2010, 03:19 PM

Originally Posted by stupendousman

The question is whether Obama or someone with some leadership skills will have a "Bill Clinton Moment™" and start engaging more from the center where they can peel off the extremes from both parties, get their approval numbers back up, and not lose worse than they would otherwise. I'm not sure that Obama, Pelosi or Reid are up to it though. They all seemed too married to left-wing policy initiatives to give the American people what they really want.

If President Obama was so "married to left-wing policy" he would have pressed for the public option in the health care reform bill. He wouldn't have retained as many of Bush's policies as he has when it comes to The Patriot Act and warrant-less wiretapping. He wouldn't have upped the ante in Afghanistan. I think the issue is more that the right lost the 2008 election cycle .... dramatically ... yet still expected the new administration to operate exactly out of the conservative playbook. Even when the Obama Administration is operating as the Bush Lite Administration ... that is still considered "left wing" by our good friends on the right. If the policy wasn't centered around "tax cuts and de-regulation" .... regardless of how that policy affected the deficit or the economy as a whole ... then it was going to be a problem for them. Period.

OAW

turtle777 · Jan 20, 2010, 03:23 PM

Originally Posted by OAW

If President Obama was so "married to left-wing policy" he would have pressed for the public option in the health care reform bill. He wouldn't have retained as many of Bush's policies as he has when it comes to The Patriot Act and warrant-less wiretapping. He wouldn't have upped the ante in Afghanistan. I think the issue is more that the right lost the 2008 election cycle .... dramatically ... yet still expected the new administration to operate exactly out of the conservative playbook. Even when the Obama Administration is operating as the Bush Lite Administration ... that is still considered "left wing" by our good friends on the right. If the policy wasn't centered around "tax cuts and de-regulation" .... regardless of how that policy affected the deficit or the economy as a whole ... then it was going to be a problem for them. Period.

OAW

Obama, the misunderstood president.

I think the people understand just fine: Obama is tons of words, but no real change.
They realize they've been fooled by nicely minced words. Now reality set in.

-t

SpaceMonkey · Jan 20, 2010, 03:25 PM

Originally Posted by turtle777

Obama, the misunderstood president.

I think the people understand just fine: Obama is tons of words, but no real change.
They realize they've been fooled by nicely minced words. Now reality set in.

-t

Maybe, but that's completely the opposite of stup's point. Your comment could be interpreted as agreeing with OAW.

ort888 · Jan 20, 2010, 03:28 PM

Well, one thing is for sure, Obama is definitely either doing way too much way too soon or is doing absolutely nothing.

SpaceMonkey · Jan 20, 2010, 03:37 PM

Also disturbing is the fact that homosexuals are free to find Scott Brown's nude photo spread in Cosmo sexually gratifying without his consent.

nonhuman · Jan 20, 2010, 03:49 PM

Originally Posted by OAW

Didn't Scott Brown support health care reform in Massachusetts that is very similar to the national health care reform that he is now opposing?

OAW

No idea if he did or not, but would be entirely consistent if he did. The things that are appropriate for the federal government to do, and the things that are appropriate for state governments to do are separate lists, as specified in the Constitution.

smacintush · Jan 20, 2010, 03:59 PM

Originally Posted by besson3c

The ship sinking is pretty inevitable, it doesn't really matter whether Obama or a Republican is in office. If anybody thinks that there is a Republican (or Democrat) alive that can reverse course on our unhealthy lifestyles, our personal spending and consumption, our free market economy run amuck (e.g. bank/auto failures), our military obligation abroad, our debt, our failing schools, our lack of jobs, etc. I have a bridge to sell you, I'm afraid.

We can bicker all day about who or what might reverse course on one or more of these things, but the total picture? This ship is going down, and this election never did begin to change that.

As long as people continue to believe that too much freedom is the problem, things will continue to get worse.

andi*pandi · Jan 20, 2010, 04:02 PM

Originally Posted by SpaceMonkey

Also disturbing is the fact that homosexuals are free to find Scott Brown's nude photo spread in Cosmo sexually gratifying without his consent.

finboy · Jan 20, 2010, 04:14 PM

Originally Posted by turtle777

So, question is: Will the Democrats GET it ?

-t

Evidently not. Saw Begala on CNN last night saying that Obama should now move to the Left to recapture his mandate. God, I hope someone listens to him.

olePigeon · Jan 20, 2010, 04:20 PM

Originally Posted by Chuckit

We don't know. Brown could still kill a woman and get away with it.

I already made that joke Mr. Latetopartypants.

turtle777 · Jan 20, 2010, 04:25 PM

Originally Posted by smacintush

As long as people continue to believe that too much freedom is the problem, things will continue to get worse.

Werd.

-t

Chuckit · Jan 20, 2010, 04:28 PM

Sorry, I was distracted by that picture of the Golden Globes.

turtle777 · Jan 20, 2010, 04:47 PM

Originally Posted by WSJ

On the Massachusetts election more broadly, Mr. Obama said Mr. Brown benefited from the same voter mood that put him in office.

"People are angry, they are frustrated. Not just because of what's happened in the last year or two years, but what's happened over the last eight years."

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...LEFTTopStories

Let me translate this: It's Bush's fault.

How lame. How very lame.

-t

sek929 · Jan 20, 2010, 04:52 PM

I guess the supposed ignorant electorate from Massachusetts that kept Teddy in office are now intelligent for electing Brown, eh?

Personally I think he ran a much cleaner campaign, Coakley was on the attack, Brown was simply stating his ideals.

Either way it'll be business as usual, like every other election.

smacintush · Jan 20, 2010, 05:15 PM

Originally Posted by sek929

I guess the supposed ignorant electorate from Massachusetts that kept Teddy in office are now intelligent for electing Brown, eh?

Personally I think he ran a much cleaner campaign, Coakley was on the attack, Brown was simply stating his ideals.

Either way it'll be business as usual, like every other election.

The thing that kept Ted the head in office is the same thing that keeps all these old *********s in office: "Our congress is corrupt and out of touch…but MY guy…he's one of the GOOD ones. HE'S not a part of the problem!"

olePigeon · Jan 20, 2010, 05:22 PM

I'd like to see an 8 year term limit for senators.

kido331 · Jan 20, 2010, 07:54 PM

senators have 6 year terms

besson3c · Jan 20, 2010, 10:12 PM

Originally Posted by smacintush

As long as people continue to believe that too much freedom is the problem, things will continue to get worse.

I don't even know what this means. You guys have really totaled the whole meaning of the word "freedom". It is really pretty meaningless now, just a great big cliché, rhetorical flourish at best.

Chuckit · Jan 20, 2010, 10:45 PM

Originally Posted by besson3c

I don't even know what this means. You guys have really totaled the whole meaning of the word "freedom". It is really pretty meaningless now, just a great big cliché, rhetorical flourish at best.

You don't know what he means? Here you go:

Originally Posted by The Dictionary

1. the state of being free or at liberty
2. exemption from external control
3. the power to determine action without restraint

besson3c · Jan 20, 2010, 10:51 PM

Originally Posted by Chuckit

You don't know what he means? Here you go:

Thanks, I know how to use a dictionary. It is obvious that I meant that I don't know exactly what the word means when it is being used, it is has been beaten to death.

Chuckit · Jan 20, 2010, 10:54 PM

Then you can look in the dictionary and find out what it means when it is being used, as I advised. Your complaint seems to be that you're tired of hearing about it, not that it's being used incorrectly, which is the condition that would lead to not knowing what people mean when they say it.

besson3c · Jan 20, 2010, 10:58 PM

Originally Posted by Chuckit

Then you can look in the dictionary and find out what it means when it is being used, as I advised. Your complaint seems to be that you're tired of hearing about it, not that it's being used incorrectly, which is the condition that would lead to not knowing what people mean when they say it.

No, it is being used incorrectly constantly. It has just become a manipulative, sometimes divisive, but pretty pointless word, just like calling Obama a socialist.

Chuckit · Jan 20, 2010, 11:11 PM

So you are saying that you don't believe smacintush intended to use the dictionary definition I posted?

besson3c · Jan 20, 2010, 11:25 PM

Originally Posted by Chuckit

So you are saying that you don't believe smacintush intended to use the dictionary definition I posted?

I have no idea what he, or really anybody here, actually means when they refer to "freedom" in a political context.

Chuckit · Jan 20, 2010, 11:29 PM

Well, what word do you propose be used when somebody means "freedom" as defined in the dictionary? Because "freedom" seems pretty good to me.

besson3c · Jan 20, 2010, 11:34 PM

Originally Posted by Chuckit

Well, what word do you propose be used when somebody means "freedom" as defined in the dictionary? Because "freedom" seems pretty good to me.

The problem is, very few of people that go on about freedom are actually for freedom, they are for freedom of the stuff they care about. You can't really be for freedom if you are against issues such as abortion, gay marriage, or gays serving in the military.

Chuckit · Jan 20, 2010, 11:44 PM

Originally Posted by besson3c

The problem is, very few of people that go on about freedom are actually for freedom, they are for freedom of the stuff they care about. You can't really be for freedom if you are against issues such as abortion, gay marriage, or gays serving in the military.

Absolutism rarely makes for rational discussion. Can I also not be a healthy eater if I have cake once in a while? Can I not be a safe driver if I accidentally made a lane change without signaling once?

Anyway, this all seems extremely beside the point to me. You were objecting to smacintush's use of the word "freedom" in one particular instance and somehow this has morphed into a discussion of how very few people are actually for freedom and some people who say they are for freedom are against certain freedoms and it all seems to have very little to do with smacintush's word use or the point he was making. It also seems very light on useful suggestions.