[funkboy]

What's a good, long-lasting TV that would:
- have very little glare
- have a very small bezel/border around the outside
- preferably be HDTV

Looking to get a new TV for an existing entertainment stand. The TV cut-out currently fits our 27", but I'd like to flush it out as much as possible. I think I could get a 30" TV (4:3 aspect ratio) in there, and even a little bigger if it had a small bezel.

Thanks so much for any help!

[KeriVit]

I think you're kinda limiting yourself with the stand- 30"??? Just get whatever you can afford. Larger? Go with Samsung DLP baby!

[Cubeoid]

Salesman: [walking up] Listen, I'm not going to lie to you. Those
are all superior machines. But if you like to watch your TV,
and I mean _really_ watch it, you want the Carnivale'.
It features two-pronged wall plug, pre-molded hand grip well,
durable outer casing to prevent fallapart...

[KeriVit]

Originally posted by Cubeoid:
Salesman: [walking up] Listen, I'm not going to lie to you. Those
are all superior machines. But if you like to watch your TV,
and I mean _really_ watch it, you want the Carnivale'.
It features two-pronged wall plug, pre-molded hand grip well,
durable outer casing to prevent fallapart...

that's helpful.

[Scifience]

If you want HD, you aren't going to be finding a 4:3 aspect ratio. In other words, replace the stand while you are at it.

Get a DLP HDTV - they are the best picture quality for the price. Samsung makes nice ones, as does Toshiba. Sony also makes good, although overpriced for what you get, TVs.

[funkboy]

Originally posted by Scifience:
If you want HD, you aren't going to be finding a 4:3 aspect ratio. In other words, replace the stand while you are at it.

I should have mentioned: the TV does not have to be 4:3 aspect ratio, that's just how the space is designed. I'd be happy with a widescreen.

And unfortunately, the entertainment center is very big and was custom made many years ago, so we won't be replacing it.

Get a DLP HDTV - they are the best picture quality for the price. Samsung makes nice ones, as does Toshiba. Sony also makes good, although overpriced for what you get, TVs.

What does DLP mean/do? A good link would be fine. And if you have specific models of 29 - 32" TVs, that'd be good.

[Scifience]

Originally posted by funkboy:
I should have mentioned: the TV does not have to be 4:3 aspect ratio, that's just how the space is designed. I'd be happy with a widescreen.

And unfortunately, the entertainment center is very big and was custom made many years ago, so we won't be replacing it.

Ah, I see. I just saw your post mentioning the 4:3 aspect ratio and assumed that was what you wanted. My bad.

What does DLP mean/do? A good link would be fine. And if you have specific models of 29 - 32" TVs, that'd be good.

DLP stands for Digital Light Processing. A detailed description of the technology can be found in this Wikipedia article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DLP

The three-chip DLP sets are much better than the single chip, but also substantially more expensive. Either is better than plasma, IMHO, due to the risk of image burn-in.

However, now that I am actually looking for links, the DLP sets don't seem to come in as small a size as you are looking for. I am seeing 46" as pretty much the smallest size that is available from the major manufacturers. Examples are here (Samsung) and here (Toshiba).

If you are looking for something smaller, it seems that your only options are LCD (very expensive) or standard CRT. Personally, I would go with the CRT in your case due to the cost of the LCD technology. A 30" Toshiba 16:9 HD Flat CRT can be seen here. Again, this seems to be as small as they come.

Your options are quite limited due to the size that you are looking for when it comes to HD, as the trend these days seems to be that "bigger is better." In any case, I hope this gives you at least some information.

Originally posted by Scifience:
If you want HD, you aren't going to be finding a 4:3 aspect ratio. In other words, replace the stand while you are at it.

Some Sony Wegas (or is it Vegas) are 4:3 and HD. But the HD programming is typically 16:9. On the Wegas the electron gun refocuses to be 16:9 so you don't lose resolution even if you do see the black bars on the screen.

If you watch a lot of regular TV and not a lot of HD programming then that is probably a good fit. If you watch more HD and movies, a 16:9 HDTV would be better.

[CaseCom]

What's the width of the space in your TV cabinet?

If small bezel is important, check out Toshiba's offerings. Thin bezels, plus the speakers are below the screen, which helps cut down on width.

30HF84 (30" 16:9) -- 32" wide, 22.5" deep, 119 pounds
34HF84 (34" 16:9) -- 34" wide, 23.5" deep, 157 pounds
(30HFX84 and 34HFX84 have black bezels instead of silver, plus improved sound)
http://www.tacp.toshiba.com/televisions/colortv.asp

Most people say Sony has the best picture quality in CRT HDTV ... the downside is that the bezels/cabinets are larger.

KD-30XS955 (30" 16:9) -- 35.5" wide, 22.5" deep, 154 pounds
KD-34XBR960 (34" 16:9) -- 39.5" wide, 24" deep, 195 pounds
KV-32HS420 (32" 4:3) -- 35.5" wide, 23.5" deep, 168 pounds
http://www.sonystyle.com

LCDs are tempting, but I can't justify spending twice as much as a CRT for lesser picture quality.

DLPs are too large for me.

[funkboy]

Small bezel is *extremely* important. I just measured, and I have a width of

30.125" to work with. :-o

So, if anyone knows of a great TV with ane xtremely small bezel, I'd be really really interested.

I suppose HDTV isn't even all that required, since we won't be getting HDTV signal anytime soon.

[CaseCom]

Oh that's too bad ... You're probably going to be looking at a 27" 4:3, or a 26" 16:9 if that's not too small ...

Sharp has a 30" LCD with the speakers on the bottom, but it's just barely too wide at 30 5/32 wide.

Gateway used to sell a 30" LCD that would fit your space, but their quality is not highly regarded.

How about a 30" Apple Cinema Display? That has maybe the smallest bezel of all -- 27.2 inches wide total.

[Xeo]

Oh I thought you were asking for show recommendations.

Alias season 4 starts on Wednesday. Lost has a new ep on Wednesday too. And Sundays has Desperate Housewives. All on ABC, all in HDTV, which makes for good quality downloads.

[Disgruntled Head of C-3PO]

It is a HUGE waste to get an HDTV and only 4:3 aspect. It defeats the whole purpose and shouldn't even be called a HDTV.

[pooka]

Originally posted by Disgruntled Head of C-3PO:
It is a HUGE waste to get an HDTV and only 4:3 aspect. It defeats the whole purpose and shouldn't even be called a HDTV.

It's not really a waste. There are/were a few toshiba and panasonic 4:3 sets that actually look pretty good. If you don't have the space for a larger widescreen set you can still get a pretty snazzy tv for dvd and hd content.

I'd say it a BIGGER waste to drop money on projections, DLPs or plasmas right now. Everyone I've seen looks like absolute ass. Always reminds me of slack-ass designers up-rez'n 72dpi images for print ads. Makes me shudder.

[CaseCom]

Originally posted by Disgruntled Head of C-3PO:
It is a HUGE waste to get an HDTV and only 4:3 aspect. It defeats the whole purpose and shouldn't even be called a HDTV.

That depends ... 16:9 sets are great if you have the space to go bigger, but 4:3 sets could make sense if you have limited space to work with or still watch a lot of standard 4:3 TV material.

When you watch 4:3 material on a 16:9 set, you lose more real estate than watching 16:9 material on a 4:3 set.

Example:
On a 32" 4:3, set, a "letterboxed" 16:9 image is 29" in size.
On a 30" 16:9 set, a "pillarboxed" 4:3 image is 24" in size.

Screen size calculator here.

If you get a 4:3 set though, make sure it has vertical compression for anamorphic 16:9 material.

[Severed Hand of Skywalker]

Originally posted by pooka:

I'd say it a BIGGER waste to drop money on projections, DLPs or plasmas right now. Everyone I've seen looks like absolute ass. Always reminds me of slack-ass designers up-rez'n 72dpi images for print ads. Makes me shudder.

That is because they are set to "Torch mode" on the showfloors.

I have looked at about every display system available to buy and the Samsung DLP projectors look much better than plasma or ANY other system out there. Very sharp with great colours.

[GoGoReggieXPowars]

Originally posted by Disgruntled Head of C-3PO:
It is a HUGE waste to get an HDTV and only 4:3 aspect. It defeats the whole purpose and shouldn't even be called a HDTV.

You're wrong. I bought a 4:3 HDTV because at the moment most of the shows I watch are 4:3, what little there is to watch anymore, and because I wasn't 100% sure I wanted to pony up for the HDTV and digital cable upgrades. Since there's no NHL season, I'm glad I didn't.

[Severed Hand of Skywalker]

Originally posted by GoGoReggieXPowars:
You're wrong. I bought a 4:3 HDTV because at the moment most of the shows I watch are 4:3, what little there is to watch anymore, and because I wasn't 100% sure I wanted to pony up for the HDTV and digital cable upgrades. Since there's no NHL season, I'm glad I didn't.

You're wrong.

Just because your TV provider sucks doesn't mean everyone should stick with a 4:3 TV.

Part of the HDTV standard is that it should be in 16:9 ratio. Buying a TV that isn't is not a true HDTV. Also broadcasters should also send HD in 16:9 ratio.

Also how often do people buy a TV? Every 10-15 years? You want to buy a 4:3 HDTV today and 3 years from now just about everything will be in 16:9.

Also if you watch DVD's they are all just about 16:9

[mitchell_pgh]

Sony KD-34XBR960

Price: $2K

Pros:
- High Definition Tube
- Near Zero Burn In
- Tubes are proven
- Bright/good color

Cons:
- Heavy as a Mother F......er
- BIG
- Not ideal for someone that moves every 2 years.

http://reviews.cnet.com/Sony_KD_34XB...-30787600.html

[CaseCom]

Nice TV, but under "Cons" you could add "Nine inches too wide for his entertainment center."

[mitchell_pgh]

Originally posted by CaseCom:
Nice TV, but under "Cons" you could add "Nine inches too wide for his entertainment center."

Side Note: You may also need to buy car jacks to keep your entertainment center from being crushed under the weight of this monster.

[GoGoReggieXPowars]

Originally posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker:
Just because your TV provider sucks doesn't mean everyone should stick with a 4:3 TV.

Part of the HDTV standard is that it should be in 16:9 ratio. Buying a TV that isn't is not a true HDTV. Also broadcasters should also send HD in 16:9 ratio.

Also how often do people buy a TV? Every 10-15 years? You want to buy a 4:3 HDTV today and 3 years from now just about everything will be in 16:9.

Also if you watch DVD's they are all just about 16:9

It ain't the providor that sucks, it's the programs on it!

My 4:3 is HDTV, and has a 16:9 mode if and when I ever need it. In other words, I get the best of both worlds if and when I move to HDTV, while getting to watch all the current 4:3 content (including a lot of the DVDs I have) in a much nicer screen than I had before.

So, uh, there ya go. I wanted to replace my 8 year old TV, and went with the best choice for my viewing needs AND one that would fit in my living room. It's not like I can't sell the thing in a few years if it doesn't suit my needs anymore.

[Severed Hand of Skywalker]

Originally posted by GoGoReggieXPowars:
It ain't the providor that sucks, it's the programs on it!

My 4:3 is HDTV, and has a 16:9 mode if and when I ever need it. In other words, I get the best of both worlds if and when I move to HDTV, while getting to watch all the current 4:3 content (including a lot of the DVDs I have) in a much nicer screen than I had before.

Uh, do you even understand the point of an widescreen HDTV? Or are you saying when you set your 4:3 TV to 19:9 mode the TV physically stretches horizontally?

[funkboy]

Thanks so much to everyone with the suggestions. I still haven't found the perfect TV yet, but I do have some good ideas.

Seems like a Toshiba may be the best way to go, but I'll probably just end up going down to Rex, a local TV store, or even Target, to see what they have on hand. We're unhappy that our current setup doesn't allow a bigger TV, but hey, we'll survive.

On another note, does anyone know of a remote control that would work with an old Signature 2000 TV? (It was a brand from Montgomery Ward's)
I found a Sony that does it, but I was wondering if there were any newer ones available.

Cheers

[MaxPower2k3]

Originally posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker:
Uh, do you even understand the point of an widescreen HDTV? Or are you saying when you set your 4:3 TV to 19:9 mode the TV physically stretches horizontally?

SDTV is 4:3 fullscreen. HDTV is 16:9 letterbox. not that complicated. It's also good for people with price constraints. 16:9 TVs are quite a bit more expensive than 4:3 TVs. a 30" widescreen is more money than a 32" 4:3 HDTV, and the 32" gives you a ~29.5" widescreen picture.

[ringo]

Originally posted by funkboy:
Small bezel is *extremely* important. I just measured, and I have a width of

30.125" to work with. :-o

You might be able to get a bigger set than you think.

TV's are measured by the diagonal, not the width. My set is 32", but the width of the screen is only about 26".

(You probably already knew this, but the width measurement threw me so I posted it anyway)

[ReggieX]

Funkboy, check out some of the recent Samsungs, mine turned out quite well: 27" HDTV model, lots of inputs for all the various things I plug into it (DVD, Mac, Nintendo, etc.) and the picture quality is very nice.

[MacMan4000]

We've got one of these I highly recommend it if you know the guy owning the TV store and can get 25% off plus financing. Thats how we got ours . Im lovin it

[Albert Pujols]

Originally posted by Xeo:
Oh I thought you were asking for show recommendations.

Alias season 4 starts on Wednesday. Lost has a new ep on Wednesday too. And Sundays has Desperate Housewives. All on ABC, all in HDTV, which makes for good quality downloads.

Haha, I thought the same thing. I was gonna say, Scrubs is on Thursdays.

[villalobos]

Originally posted by GoGoReggieXPowars:
You're wrong. I bought a 4:3 HDTV because at the moment most of the shows I watch are 4:3, what little there is to watch anymore, and because I wasn't 100% sure I wanted to pony up for the HDTV and digital cable upgrades. Since there's no NHL season, I'm glad I didn't.

Man hockey in HD is soooo sweet. Almost as good as playing.

[KeriVit]

Originally posted by MacMan4000:
We've got one of these I highly recommend it if you know the guy owning the TV store and can get 25% off plus financing. Thats how we got ours . Im lovin it

How could you not- even for $7500!

[davidflas]

I don't know what your budget is, but this TV will fit in your cabinet. I've had one since October and have been really impressed with it.

[funkboy]

Originally posted by ReggieX:
Funkboy, check out some of the recent Samsungs, mine turned out quite well: 27" HDTV model, lots of inputs for all the various things I plug into it (DVD, Mac, Nintendo, etc.) and the picture quality is very nice.

Do you have a model that you recommend especially? Maybe this one?
http://product.samsung.com/cgi-bin/n...TXP2764X%2fXAA

I know Samsung LCD computer monitors are great, so I imagine their TVs are good, too.

Originally posted by ringo:
You might be able to get a bigger set than you think.

TV's are measured by the diagonal, not the width. My set is 32", but the width of the screen is only about 26".

(You probably already knew this, but the width measurement threw me so I posted it anyway)

I did know that, yes. I was talking about the entire width of the TV, housing and all. Is your 32" diagonally-measured screen actually only 26" wide with all the outer trim and plastic on it? If so, I want *your* TV! (or a little bigger version of it)

And davidflas, thanks for the link, that looks like one that would work for me.

I'm just amazed that no TV manufacturer has scaled the frames of their TVs down to essentially nothing by now. Is there a technical reason that all TVs need such a big frame around their screen? Or is it just for aesthetic reasons?

[Link]

It has to do with a few things, most CRTs have thick bezels (show me one that doesn't), due to the way they're mounted: A smaller bezel would mean a more expensive and nonstandard mounting system.

Top it off, bezel space has never really been a big deal - DEPTH has, so yeah.. less reason.

AND -very few- people have multiTV setups. Still even less reason.

To top it off, for the past 10 years, it's been the "in thing" to have your TV on a 'table' or open stand. Those "entertainment center" dealies are so 20 years ago.

If you really didn't mind, you could always do a bit of shuffling around and "celing mount" a plasma or something into the 'space' and just have it "in front of it", an added bonus would be the ability to swivel it.

I still have one more bone to pick though, you *WILL* want to leave a bit of open space around the TV, especially if it's tube or plasma, because those suckers produce a lot of heat and ventillation will be essential.

[nredman]

sony

[davidflas]

When I was tv shopping I compared Sony, Samsung, and Panasonic side by side at my local retailer. I had a limited budget $800USD max. I was initially attracted to the Samsung wide-screen tubes, but found it didn't compare in sharpness to the Sony and Panasonic $4:3 models. I found that Sony edged out the Panasonic in two areas: shadow detail and lower levels of distortion on 16:9 material. On the Panasonic peoples heads and zeros in text were more oval than round... Just my two cents!

[ReggieX]

Originally posted by funkboy:
Do you have a model that you recommend especially? Maybe this one?
http://product.samsung.com/cgi-bin/n...TXP2764X%2fXAA

I know Samsung LCD computer monitors are great, so I imagine their TVs are good, too.

Mine's the TXN2771HF model, that one looks to be pretty darn good, with a few more features than mine.

[funkboy]

Originally posted by davidflas:
When I was tv shopping I compared Sony, Samsung, and Panasonic side by side at my local retailer. I had a limited budget $800USD max. I was initially attracted to the Samsung wide-screen tubes, but found it didn't compare in sharpness to the Sony and Panasonic $4:3 models. I found that Sony edged out the Panasonic in two areas: shadow detail and lower levels of distortion on 16:9 material. On the Panasonic peoples heads and zeros in text were more oval than round... Just my two cents!

Thanks very much! I think a 4:3 Sony is high on my list, as long as I find a 30" (or even 32!") that fits my cabinet. I just hope it lasts longer than my Sony 19" monitor I had awhile back... died out after 3 years, which disappointed me.

[milhous]

i need a tv as well. problem is:

a. small room
b. widescreen crt hdtv's are boxy and heavy, and thus no real room for it
c. an lcd hdtv would be ideal and lightweight, but a decent size unit will cost $$$$
d. again small room
e. if i got for a widescreen crt hdtv, i will have to make considerable free space concessions plus getting a table to put it on.

i'll only be living here for another 8 months, so there's also the thought of buying a cheap 4:3 TV. but then once i find a larger place, i'd probably consider getting a widescreen.

i could always settle for a 17" dell lcd tv which is decently priced but would be too small for a future living room.

it's a bit frustrating wanting exactly what you want.

[funkboy]

Since I got a lot of help, I'll try to dispense some of my own:

Originally posted by milhous:
i need a tv as well.
...
i'll only be living here for another 8 months,

This seems to be key. Unless you're an audio/videophile who cannot live without the best quality for 8 months (sounds like an internship/co-op), I would suggest keeping possessions light and easy to move. This may mean a small, affordable LCD (17" or so), or a regular ol' TV that you won't care too much about and can easily lug around with you.

Will a lot of others be watching TV/movies with you? It's fairly easy to watch DVDs on my iMac 17" widescreen in my dormroom, but that was a tiny dorm room - if you're in an apartment, I'd probably get a 25" or 30" 4:3 TV, nothing too fancy, and either sell it to leave it when you're done for the next 8 months.
(also, think about if your friends/roommates are rough on electronics & furniture, and how that fits in with the quality you hope to see your TV in at the end of 8 months)

As for what model, I'd say once you get to the locale you're living in for the next 8 months, go to a local store there (Best Buy, Target, whatever), and buy the TV that looks best. That way, if you have problems, you'll have the store's salesman right there to talk with.

a. small room

Aha, I missed this the first time around. If it is just a dorm room, I may be tempted to get a nice LCD. If you have $650 or so, the Dell 20" widescreens are supposedly really nice, though they do not have a cable hookup. You could try rigging something up... otherwise, get a 17" LCD TV for like $550 or whatever they cost.

I'd forego HDTV, especially if you won't have an HDTV signal in this place you're living.

i could always settle for a 17" dell lcd tv which is decently priced but would be too small for a future living room.

That's what I would do, since you will be making more money once you move into a future living room. Hopefully enough to buy exactly the TV you want!

it's a bit frustrating wanting exactly what you want.

This about says it for me. I think having a good salesman who really knows the different models and brands (not just the ones on hand, but all sorts of models from many different companies) would be one of the best things for us, as long as we're not totally blindsided by his salesmanship.