[Mastrap]

So, we've moved from the UK to Canada. Part of the reason was that the business I co-own needed a base in North America. All was well, until today.

I had a chat this morning with my partners and we decided to upgrade our hardware. New iMacs all round. So, I go online, Apple Store Canada. Select what I need, add a wireless keyboard, an airport extreme card, a bluetooth module. Move to check out.
Here we hit a snag. I cannot use my UK company credit card as the checkout page doesn't allow me to change the country from 'Canada' to 'UK' in my billing address details. So, I call Apple to order over the phone. Same deal. Apparently I have to use a Canadian credit card in order to purchase goods in the Canadian Apple store. I ask to talk to somebody in billing, offer additional ID, offer for them to talk to my bank (HSBC, with several branches in Toronto) but nothing helps.

This is idiotic. Nobody at Apple could give me a reason for this stupidity apart from "It's Apple policy". If I would go to, say, Air Canada's website I can book a first class flight from Toronto to London that would cost far more than an iMac ever could. I use the the UK card almost frequently in Canada, without any trouble at all. Except at the Apple store. When I finally asked for a feedback email address to register my unhappiness I was told - there isn't one.

Sometimes I could slap Apple.

/rant

PS: And don't get me started on Canadian car insurance companies. The devil's spawn.

PPS: Apart from that we're loving Toronto. Excellent food and friendly people.

[Severed Hand of Skywalker]

It has to do with fraud and insurance. Not much Apple can do about it.

Enjoy Toronto and look out for me

[olePigeon]

Originally posted by Mastrap:
So, we've moved from the UK to Canada. Part of the reason was that the business I co-own needed a base in North America. All was well, until today.

I had a chat this morning with my partners and we decided to upgrade our hardware. New iMacs all round. So, I go online, Apple Store Canada. Select what I need, add a wireless keyboard, an airport extreme card, a bluetooth module. Move to check out.
Here we hit a snag. I cannot use my UK company credit card as the checkout page doesn't allow me to change the country from 'Canada' to 'UK' in my billing address details. So, I call Apple to order over the phone. Same deal. Apparently I have to use a Canadian credit card in order to purchase goods in the Canadian Apple store. I ask to talk to somebody in billing, offer additional ID, offer for them to talk to my bank (HSBC, with several branches in Toronto) but nothing helps.

This is idiotic. Nobody at Apple could give me a reason for this stupidity apart from "It's Apple policy". If I would go to, say, Air Canada's website I can book a first class flight from Toronto to London that would cost far more than an iMac ever could. I use the the UK card almost frequently in Canada, without any trouble at all. Except at the Apple store. When I finally asked for a feedback email address to register my unhappiness I was told - there isn't one.

Sometimes I could slap Apple.

/rant

PS: And don't get me started on Canadian car insurance companies. The devil's spawn.

PPS: Apart from that we're loving Toronto. Excellent food and friendly people.

It's something to do with tax laws, not just Apple's policy.

[Mastrap]

Pfft. Called my bank and asked them if they'd mind if I gave a Canadian billing address for my UK card.

"Go right ahead sir, we just mark that on your account".

Take that, Apple. And they did. The cash, that is. I'm still amazed though.


Oh, and car insurance? I've been told by a computer today: "We're sorry but we're too busy to take your call at the moment. Please call back later."

Yeah, right. Anyway, enough of the ranting.

[Spheric Harlot]

The point of requiring a local billing address is that Apple tries to make it as difficult as possible buy their equipment in any country other than the one the customer is resident of. I.e. Europeans buying stuff in the States and then taking it over, to profit from the store price differences.

They've actually gone so far as to equip PowerMacs, iMacs, and iPods with non-universal power supplies (after it took them *ages* to finally make all their gear multi-currency in the 90s) *just* to make it difficult for people to do this.

'Cuz once you buy a new power supply for your iPod, the $150 price difference doesn't look quite as good any more.

-s*

[turtle777]

Originally posted by Mastrap:
I've been told by a computer today: "We're sorry but we're too busy to take your call at the moment. Please call back later."

Only in Canada

-t

[Mastrap]

Weird thing is that British Airways does exactly the same thing. You can only book a ticket online using a CC with a billing address in the country of departure.
After complaining several times about this idiotic policy I was told by one of the customer service girls: "Just use any old card, we don't actually check where the card is issued". I did use my UK card in Germany and it worked a charm.

I mean, wtf?

[AB^2=BCxAC]

Originally posted by Mastrap:
Pfft. Called my bank and asked them if they'd mind if I gave a Canadian billing address for my UK card.

"Go right ahead sir, we just mark that on your account".

Take that, Apple. And they did. The cash, that is. I'm still amazed though.


Oh, and car insurance? I've been told by a computer today: "We're sorry but we're too busy to take your call at the moment. Please call back later."

Yeah, right. Anyway, enough of the ranting.

You beat me to the punch: all you have to do is call your credit card company and add your international addresses to the card. I actually have three addresses on my cards!

But be glad you don't have to deal with car insurance in B.C., because it's all run by the provincial goverment and they aren't exactly competitive.

[Severed Hand of Skywalker]

Originally posted by turtle777:
Only in Canada

-t

Try again, call centre is in the US

[turtle777]

Originally posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker:
Try again, call centre is in the US

ok:

ONLY FOR CANADIANS !

-t

[Mastrap]

Originally posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker:
Try again, call centre is in the US

Sadly no. Canadian car insurance company.

While I am at it, here's another rant:

In the UK, when I want to buy car insurance, I make a call. They ask me about the car, they take down personal details. I then give them my credit card and have instant insurance coverage. They send me a contract to sign. If I don't, or if I lie, then I have no insurance cover which will not please the local constabulary.

When I needed car insurance in Germany the same applied. My UK no claims bonus was accepted without trouble. I had to fax a letter from my UK insurance company to the German insurers but that was it. Instant cover.

Now, in Canada things are somewhat more complex. When trying to apply for insurance cover online I was told that I needed to fill in a paper form, they would do a background check and then come back to me. Estimated time: Two to four weeks. Yes, weeks, not minutes, hours or day. Weeks. And you need to know which car you want to buy in advance.

Add to this that a fair number of companies don't accept foreign experience, although I dare say that driving in Toronto is piss-easy after driving in London and on Germany's Autobahn, and you can see why I am foaming at the mouth. What this means is thatmy entire no claims bonus is in danger of disappearing and that I am treated again like a new driver. The benefit for the insurance company: They can charge me a fortune, to bolster their profits.

Disclaimer to Star Wars Guy: I love Toronto, I love Canada. No need to get upset.

[Severed Hand of Skywalker]

Originally posted by Mastrap:
Disclaimer to Star Wars Guy: I love Toronto, I love Canada. No need to get upset.

Upset? Na. Call centres suck. Everytime I call an Non-canadian one they ask my what State Toronto Ontario is in.

[GoGoReggieXPowars]

Originally posted by Mastrap:
Now, in Canada things are somewhat more complex. When trying to apply for insurance cover online I was told that I needed to fill in a paper form, they would do a background check and then come back to me. Estimated time: Two to four weeks. Yes, weeks, not minutes, hours or day. Weeks. And you need to know which car you want to buy in advance.

Sounds like Ontario. We had 355ml aluminum pop cans in Alberta in 1983, and it took til 1990 for Ontario to get them.

In Denver, I switched my Massachusetts driver's license to a Colorado one by filling out a form, getting a new picture taken, and 5 minutes later I had a new license IN HAND. Just to renew one here in Ontario I go get a new picture, fill out a form, and wait a week or more for them to MAIL it to me.

Just remember, the phrase "Apple bargain in Canada" does not exist.

[GoGoReggieXPowars]

Originally posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker:
Upset? Na. Call centres suck. Everytime I call an Non-canadian one they ask my what State Toronto Ontario is in.

Ohio?

[Severed Hand of Skywalker]

Originally posted by GoGoReggieXPowars:
Ohio?

Just saying TORONTO is one thing but when I say Toronto ONTARIO they still don't get it.

[Mastrap]

Just to veer this off topic, have you had a look at the Ohio map? What on earth is 'Mechanicsburg' all about? Some 19th century town populated entirely by German born engineers, where everything was running in a Heath Robinson kinda way? Mechanised hairdressers, flying cars?

[hwshi]

For auto insurance go here to get an online quote, they beat all other quotes I recieved (YMMV).

[shabbasuraj]

Be prepared to get shocked at car insurance prices when living in 'Hog Town' or the 'Big Smoke'...

(or the 'T-DOT' as it is also referred to as.)

[SimpleLife]

Bienvenue au Canada anyway.



I don't know much about other countries, so all this sounds like normal to me.

Just moving back in Quebec from Ontario has me waiting 3 months before I am allowed to the free Helath Care. Granted, you get reimbursed, but you need to prove you are a resident of the province (and it is like so both ways).

Nevertheless, I love this country.

Come visit Montreal in the Spring; it has lots of good things about it!

[Eug Wanker]

Originally posted by Mastrap:
So, we've moved from the UK to Canada. Part of the reason was that the business I co-own needed a base in North America. All was well, until today.

I had a chat this morning with my partners and we decided to upgrade our hardware. New iMacs all round. So, I go online, Apple Store Canada. Select what I need, add a wireless keyboard, an airport extreme card, a bluetooth module. Move to check out.
Here we hit a snag. I cannot use my UK company credit card as the checkout page doesn't allow me to change the country from 'Canada' to 'UK' in my billing address details. So, I call Apple to order over the phone. Same deal. Apparently I have to use a Canadian credit card in order to purchase goods in the Canadian Apple store. I ask to talk to somebody in billing, offer additional ID, offer for them to talk to my bank (HSBC, with several branches in Toronto) but nothing helps.

This is idiotic. Nobody at Apple could give me a reason for this stupidity apart from "It's Apple policy". If I would go to, say, Air Canada's website I can book a first class flight from Toronto to London that would cost far more than an iMac ever could. I use the the UK card almost frequently in Canada, without any trouble at all. Except at the Apple store. When I finally asked for a feedback email address to register my unhappiness I was told - there isn't one.

Sometimes I could slap Apple.

/rant

PS: And don't get me started on Canadian car insurance companies. The devil's spawn.

PPS: Apart from that we're loving Toronto. Excellent food and friendly people.

Same policy for other Apple Stores. You can't buy from the US Apple Store with a Canadian billing address either.

This wouldn't work too well for airline tickets though, due to the nature of the product.

As for car insurance, it sounds like you're phoning the wrong insurance companies. Either that or it's because you just moved here.

[Mastrap]

Originally posted by hwshi:
For auto insurance go here to get an online quote, they beat all other quotes I recieved (YMMV).

Thanks for that. I just got off the phone with them and not only could they offer immediate cover, they also beat pretty much everybody else on price. Much appreciated.

Just to clarify: There are tons, and I mean tons of things that annoy me about the UK too. And don't get me started on Germany. So far my Canadian experience has been overwhelmingly positive and I am sure it'll stay that way.

[Spliff]

Originally posted by AB^2=BCxAC:
But be glad you don't have to deal with car insurance in B.C., because it's all run by the provincial goverment and they aren't exactly competitive.

That hasn't been my experience. When I lived in Ontario, I paid $300 more per year for my car than what it cost me in Vancouver. So I've got no complaints about state-run car insurance.

[Mastrap]

Originally posted by SimpleLife:

Come visit Montreal in the Spring; it has lots of good things about it!

I love Montreal. I wouldn't mind living there for a while.

[James L]

Originally posted by Spliff:
That hasn't been my experience. When I lived in Ontario, I paid $300 more per year for my car than what it cost me in Vancouver. So I've got no complaints about state-run car insurance.

There are 3 provinces that provide state run auto insurance, BC being one of them. In the recent years these 3 provinces have consistently had lower insurance rate increases than any of the provinces that have private insurance coverage.

Example:

http://www.cbc.ca/consumers/market/f.../carinsurance/

Also, when you look at these insurance companies and where the money goes, it may surprise you. For example, in BC if the main insurance provider is constantly dealing with claims resulting from a specific intersection, then they will provide money to add a turn lane, reorganize the lights, etc.

ICBC also funds a ton of police overtime for drunk driving stops, highschool anti drunk driving programs, partnerships with police and other emergency programs, etc.

The bottom line is that dealing with ANY insurance company is a pain in the ass, but compared to the vast majority of private insurance companies I would usually deal with a state run one any day of the week.

[Eug Wanker]

Originally posted by Spliff:
That hasn't been my experience. When I lived in Ontario, I paid $300 more per year for my car than what it cost me in Vancouver. So I've got no complaints about state-run car insurance.

Yup. My insurance was cheaper in BC than in Toronto. And I didn't have to call a bazillion insurance companies in BC like I did here.

Then again, driving in Toronto seems more risky than in Vancouver.

Originally posted by James L:
There are 3 provinces that provide state run auto insurance, BC being one of them. In the recent years these 3 provinces have consistently had lower insurance rate increases than any of the provinces that have private insurance coverage.

To be fair, rates should be low in Saskatchewan and Manitoba anyway. There's nobody there. (And I'm from Saskatchewan.)

[Angus_D]

Originally posted by Mastrap:
I love Montreal. I wouldn't mind living there for a while.

I dunno, I'd be scared of bumping into ambush.

[James L]

Originally posted by Eug Wanker:

To be fair, rates should be low in Saskatchewan and Manitoba anyway. There's nobody there. (And I'm from Saskatchewan.)

lol!

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker:
Try again, call centre is in the US

The car insurance call centre is in the US?

[hwshi]

Originally posted by Mastrap:
Thanks for that. I just got off the phone with them and not only could they offer immediate cover, they also beat pretty much everybody else on price. Much appreciated.

Your welcome, I know what a huge pain in the ass insurance companies can be.

Any other questions about Toronto/Mtl feel free to ask.

[AB^2=BCxAC]

Originally posted by Eug Wanker:
Yup. My insurance was cheaper in BC than in Toronto. And I didn't have to call a bazillion insurance companies in BC like I did here.

Then again, driving in Toronto seems more risky than in Vancouver.


To be fair, rates should be low in Saskatchewan and Manitoba anyway. There's nobody there. (And I'm from Saskatchewan.)

Well, here's my sad tale. Yes, my car insurance was a bit cheaper in Vancouver, but when my car was totalled in an accident, I was given a terrible payout. I was hit by a driver who ran a stop sign, and the claims people told me the cost of the damage was worth more than the car (a five year old Honda Civic), which was quite arbitrary as they decided the cost of my car was about $2k less than used market value. I was stunned! And we tried for three weeks to get them to change their minds, presenting information from receipts, mechanincs, photos and the like, to prove the car was worth more. The beaurocracy was maddening. No luck.

More recently, my mom's car was stolen from her building's parking garage, and surprise surprise... it was undervalued below the average depreciation and she wasn't paid back enough money to even buy a used car of the same make, model, and year. Sadly, in my family we really take good care of our cars, and we've grown to hate B.C.'s car insurance industry.

[James L]

Originally posted by AB^2=BCxAC:
Well, here's my sad tale. Yes, my car insurance was a bit cheaper in Vancouver, but when my car was totalled in an accident, I was given a terrible payout. I was hit by a driver who ran a stop sign, and the claims people told me the cost of the damage was worth more than the car (a five year old Honda Civic), which was quite arbitrary as they decided the cost of my car was about $2k less than used market value. I was stunned! And we tried for three weeks to get them to change their minds, presenting information from receipts, mechanincs, photos and the like, to prove the car was worth more. The beaurocracy was maddening. No luck.

More recently, my mom's car was stolen from her building's parking garage, and surprise surprise... it was undervalued below the average depreciation and she wasn't paid back enough money to even buy a used car of the same make, model, and year. Sadly, in my family we really take good care of our cars, and we've grown to hate B.C.'s car insurance industry.

Actually, what you have experienced is the automobile insurance industry in general... you just happened to encounter it in BC.

In another life I worked as a private investigator, spending a hefty chunk of my time for 5 years conducting investigations for insurance companies... both provincial and private. People would like to think that the grass is greener, and it just isn't.

Incidently, I had a vehicle stolen, and ICBC gave me well over what I could have gotten for it if I had tried to sell it privately before the accident.

I'm in the camp of people who don't like dealing with ANY insurance company, as I know the burden of proof is always on the insuree. To say that an insurance company is bad simply because it isn't private is a bit misguided imho.

[James L]

Originally posted by Zimphire:
The car insurance call centre is in the US?

US outsources to India

Canada outsources to US

See the similarity?

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally posted by James L:
US outsources to India

Canada outsources to US

See the similarity?

[AB^2=BCxAC]

Originally posted by James L:
Actually, what you have experienced is the automobile insurance industry in general... you just happened to encounter it in BC.

In another life I worked as a private investigator, spending a hefty chunk of my time for 5 years conducting investigations for insurance companies... both provincial and private. People would like to think that the grass is greener, and it just isn't.

Incidently, I had a vehicle stolen, and ICBC gave me well over what I could have gotten for it if I had tried to sell it privately before the accident.

I'm in the camp of people who don't like dealing with ANY insurance company, as I know the burden of proof is always on the insuree. To say that an insurance company is bad simply because it isn't private is a bit misguided imho.

These are good points. I guess I'm just a bit resentful because of my experience. Also, car insurance in most of Canada is awesomely less expensive than any major metropolitan city in a European country or New York. Or am I wrong, is Toronto or Montreal terrible, too?

[sgb]

....to get back to the online apple store. same problem as so many other online stores, they will only accept a US credit card. this really s*cks if you fly to the US a lot and like to order stuff online (with a german visa card) to take it back to europe. so right before christmas, i ordered my 2 ibooks and 2 ipods through amazon.com instead of apple.com. never had any problems with amazon.com and an international credit card.

apples loss. amazons gain.

still got my apple stuff for a very nice price (even hit the ipods on sale and the ibook rebate).

btw, the power supply for both ibook & ipod work 110-240V.

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by James L:
US outsources to India

Canada outsources to US

See the similarity?

But this isn't the case in this situation. That is why I was laughing.
The both outsource to India BTW.

Originally posted by Spheric Harlot:


<Premature Owned pic posted>

[James L]

Originally posted by sgb:
....to get back to the online apple store. same problem as so many other online stores, they will only accept a US credit card. this really s*cks if you fly to the US a lot and like to order stuff online (with a german visa card) to take it back to europe. so right before christmas, i ordered my 2 ibooks and 2 ipods through amazon.com instead of apple.com. never had any problems with amazon.com and an international credit card.

apples loss. amazons gain.

still got my apple stuff for a very nice price (even hit the ipods on sale and the ibook rebate).

btw, the power supply for both ibook & ipod work 110-240V.

How dare you try to bring the thread back on topic this far into it... how rude!!

Just kidding...

[turtle777]

Originally posted by James L:
US outsources to India
Canada outsources to Indiana

Fixinated

-t

[Mastrap]

Originally posted by AB^2=BCxAC:
... Canada is awesomely less expensive than any major metropolitan city in a European country or New York. Or am I wrong, is Toronto or Montreal terrible, too?

I paid less for an old Jaguar in London than I am paying for a Saab in Toronto. A lot less. But that has very probably to do with my insurance history in the UK and in Canada, i.e I haven't got one in Canada. Next year things should look a lot better.