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MK 5 Golf GTI
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Aussiemac
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Aug 10, 2007, 03:15 PM
 
I just purchased one of these & its great
5 doors for the family (4 of us) with DSG & Leather
practical & fun
After driving 4X4s for the last 12 years this is great.

YouTube - 5th Gear - Golf GTI

YouTube - Top Gear - Volkswagen Golf GTi Mk5
Aussiemac
iMac 21.5"-2.4GHz i5, 15"-2.66 i7 MacBook Pro, iMac Bondi G3/233 (still working), HTC Desire, Golf V GTI DSG
     
ReardenMetal
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Aug 10, 2007, 03:29 PM
 
So basically you finally realized how lame SUVs are, since they handle like ass. Congrats. You're in a more fuel efficient, FASTER, better handling, better braking, more comfortable, SAFER ride. If only the 290,928,382 other SUV owners would see the light.
     
BadKosh
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Aug 10, 2007, 04:02 PM
 
Remember...GTI stands for "Get There Instantly"

VW-Porsche-Audi - all 1 company.
     
Aussiemac  (op)
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Aug 10, 2007, 04:18 PM
 
Funny thing is my wife said she would never drive it because it was too small, now I can't get her out of it, she now says she never wants another big car.
Aussiemac
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ReardenMetal
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Aug 10, 2007, 04:23 PM
 
most people would feel that way if they ever drove one. Including most soccer moms who drive SUVs.
     
imitchellg5
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Aug 10, 2007, 04:24 PM
 
The GTIs are awesome cars. The DSG is pretty slick too, I think its the only case of when I'd take an automatic over a stick.
     
Sealobo
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Aug 10, 2007, 04:41 PM
 
GTI is nice. Good value for the performance and overall finish.
     
Aussiemac  (op)
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Aug 10, 2007, 04:51 PM
 
DSG is not actually auto, you can choose between auto & manual mode, if you are in manual you can change gears the same as a tiptronic or you have the gear paddles on the steering wheel.
DSG is actually 2 x 3 speed manual gear boxes joined together, so there is no power loss as there is in a normal automatic.
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ink
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Aug 10, 2007, 05:27 PM
 
The Golf TDI comes back to America next year. :-)
     
Doofy
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Aug 10, 2007, 05:28 PM
 
Congrats on the purchase.

But don't believe Rob about the speed. It's still slower (0-60) than my Jeep.
Been inclined to wander... off the beaten track.
That's where there's thunder... and the wind shouts back.
     
andreas_g4
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Aug 10, 2007, 06:08 PM
 
Originally Posted by BadKosh View Post
Remember...GTI stands for "Get There Instantly"
Seriously?
     
OldManMac
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Aug 10, 2007, 06:11 PM
 
Originally Posted by BadKosh View Post
Remember...GTI stands for "Get There Instantly"

VW-Porsche-Audi - all 1 company.
Actually, they are not one company. VW does own Audi, but Porsche is a separate company, which recently made a major purchase of VW stock and owns over 30% of VW. This required it, by German law, to make a take over offer, but it was a weak one, as they're not really interested in taking VW over..........yet. The law is also in the process of being eliminated.

Congratulations to the OP on the purchase. I've owned 8 VWs over the years and my next car may well be a Rabbit, which used to be called the Golf here in the U. S.
Why is there always money for war, but none for education?
     
Sealobo
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Aug 10, 2007, 06:14 PM
 
Originally Posted by andreas_g4 View Post
Seriously?
It's true. You can get confirmation from the lounge over at vwvortex.com! The 1.8T can never lose.
     
BadKosh
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Aug 10, 2007, 08:05 PM
 
I had my 1.8T re-chipped, bigger sway bars, a reworked waste gate. Fast '04 wagon now!
     
Andy8
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Aug 11, 2007, 12:41 AM
 
Originally Posted by andreas_g4 View Post
Seriously?
GTI = Grand Touring Injection
     
imitchellg5
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Aug 11, 2007, 11:05 AM
 
Originally Posted by Andy8 View Post
GTI = Grand Touring Injection
That is the correct one. I asked the VW dealer last night actually. ( I would confirm with Wikipedia but it's really slow right now).
     
Laminar
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Aug 11, 2007, 03:18 PM
 
I hadn't heard about the DSG until now and I did a little reading on Wikipedia, it's really interesting.
Advantages
-Extremely fast shift time of 8 milliseconds (the Ferrari Enzo takes 150ms) when shifting to the gear the transmission is expecting
-Practically no power loss, due to the use of clutches instead of a a torque converter
-Better fuel economy than the planetary geared automatic transmission and manual transmission
-Both clutches can disengage when travelling downhill, allowing the car to coast

Disadvantages
-When shifting to a gear that the transmission did not anticipate, shift time is lengthy (around 400ms, depending on the situation)
-Can be expensive to manufacture, this discourages many automakers
-They are heavy: 75kg vs. 47.5 for comparable Getrag DSG and Manual models
-Being complex mechanisms there is more to potentially break
     
imitchellg5
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Aug 11, 2007, 04:14 PM
 
Originally Posted by Laminar View Post
I hadn't heard about the DSG until now and I did a little reading on Wikipedia, it's really interesting.
Audi's S-Tronic shifts even faster, at about 2 milliseconds a shift.
     
Goldfinger
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Aug 11, 2007, 06:45 PM
 
Originally Posted by imitchellg5 View Post
Audi's S-Tronic shifts even faster, at about 2 milliseconds a shift.
It's the same box. Maybe they have improved software in Audis, but it's just a DSG. I highly doubt that they are faster in Audis. Where do you get that 2ms number from ?

Great box, hate all the cars that VAG makes.

iMac 20" C2D 2.16 | Acer Aspire One | Flickr
     
imitchellg5
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Aug 11, 2007, 07:00 PM
 
Originally Posted by Goldfinger View Post
It's the same box. Maybe they have improved software in Audis, but it's just a DSG. I highly doubt that they are faster in Audis. Where do you get that 2ms number from ?

Great box, hate all the cars that VAG makes.
An Audi salesman, I test drove one in an A3. That's with the shifter in "S", not "D". The 8 milliseconds may be in "D".
     
OldManMac
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Aug 11, 2007, 08:26 PM
 
Originally Posted by imitchellg5 View Post
An Audi salesman, I test drove one in an A3. That's with the shifter in "S", not "D". The 8 milliseconds may be in "D".
A car sales person is not a good place to expect to get good or accurate technical information from.
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imitchellg5
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Aug 11, 2007, 09:59 PM
 
Originally Posted by OldManMac View Post
A car sales person is not a good place to expect to get good or accurate technical information from.
Actually it says on Audi's website as well. Link.
     
Aussiemac  (op)
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Aug 12, 2007, 08:06 AM
 
VW say three to four hundreds of a second to complete the operation.
I think it is just differet marketing, the VW & Audi DSG box are the same (Audi donated it to VW) designed & built buy Audi.


http://www.volkswagen.com.au/pdf/technology/DSG.pdf
Aussiemac
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Kevin
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Aug 12, 2007, 01:36 PM
 
Being a fan of the manual shifter I would be interested in this car. If it was a tad speedier. I guess you could always do the after-market thing.
     
OldManMac
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Aug 12, 2007, 03:33 PM
 
Originally Posted by Aussiemac View Post
VW say three to four hundreds of a second to complete the operation.
I think it is just differet marketing, the VW & Audi DSG box are the same (Audi donated it to VW) designed & built buy Audi.


http://www.volkswagen.com.au/pdf/technology/DSG.pdf
As VW owns Audi, I'd say the "donation" was a nice gesture.
Why is there always money for war, but none for education?
     
Aussiemac  (op)
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Aug 13, 2007, 08:53 AM
 
I have had a quote AUD$2000 to up grade the software, and for 2 grand you up the kw to 184
Oettinger.com.au

2.0 TFSI - 147 kW (200 PS) > 184 kW (250 PS)- GTI

Oettinger-Engine
BWA-G 2000 TFSI-2

Engine Identification BWA

Transmission 6 speed manual / DSG

Drive Front wheel drive

Modifications OETTINGER rear and main silencer
OETTINGER carbon ram air
Recalibration of the engine management - via Directport



OETTINGER SERIE

max. power 184 kW (250 bhp) @ 5800 rpm 147 kW (200 bhp) @ 6000 rpm

max. torque 257 lb ft (350 Nm) @ 2400 rpm 205 lb ft (280 Nm) @ 1800 rpm

0 - 100 km/h approx. 6,3 sec approx. 7,2 sec

max. speed approx. 244 km/h (152 mph) approx. 235 km/h (146 mph)




Fuel Super Plus unleaded, min. 98 ROZ

emissions Euro 4

Note Modified vehicles require at least “W“ rated tyres

Part No. OE 000 423 00
Aussiemac
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imacman
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Aug 13, 2007, 04:39 PM
 
Originally Posted by imitchellg5 View Post
Audi's S-Tronic shifts even faster, at about 2 milliseconds a shift.
For someone who doesn't care about 20-40fps in a game, why do you care about milliseconds of shifting ability?
     
jebjeb
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Aug 13, 2007, 05:53 PM
 
Originally Posted by imitchellg5 View Post
Actually it says on Audi's website as well. Link.
As much as the DSG boxes are quick, they are not 2/1000's of a second quick. That website says 0.2 seconds or 200 ms which is to be expected (rather than 2ms).

I do believe that DSG is the future of robotised manual boxes.

Aussiemac: Whilst that may be a simple way to explain it, a 6 speed DSG box is not quite two 3-speed manual boxes joined together. It is a 6 speed box with 2 clutches, 2 input and 2 output shafts rather than a single clutch, input and output shaft in a standard manual or a torque convertor in a normal Auto (be it auto, Tiptronic etc).

Enjoy the Golf. They are a great car plus nice and rare over home in Australia.
( Last edited by jebjeb; Aug 13, 2007 at 06:02 PM. )
     
imacman
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Aug 13, 2007, 06:11 PM
 
Originally Posted by jebjeb View Post
As much as the DSG boxes are quick, they are not 2/1000's of a second quick. That website says 0.2 seconds or 200 ms which is to be expected (rather than 2ms).

I do believe that DSG is the future of robotised manual boxes.

Aussiemac: Whilst that may be a simple way to explain it, a 6 speed DSG box is not quite two 3-speed manual boxes joined together. It is a 6 speed box with 2 clutches, 2 input and 2 output shafts rather than a single clutch, input and output shaft in a standard manual or a torque convertor in a normal Auto (be it auto, Tiptronic etc).

Enjoy the Golf. They are a great car plus nice and rare over home in Australia.
You think with twice the parts it'd have a higher drivetrain loss than a regular manual. :|
     
imitchellg5
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Aug 13, 2007, 06:20 PM
 
Originally Posted by imacman View Post
For someone who doesn't care about 20-40fps in a game, why do you care about milliseconds of shifting ability?
I don't care that much about either actually, since I'll probably never have a new iMac or a DSG.

And I apologize for 2 milliseconds. Math isn't my strong suite
     
macroy
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Aug 13, 2007, 10:44 PM
 
Originally Posted by jebjeb View Post
As much as the DSG boxes are quick, they are not 2/1000's of a second quick. That website says 0.2 seconds or 200 ms which is to be expected (rather than 2ms).......
Is there more than one version of Audi's DSG? I was told that its faster than BMW's SMGII...which shifts in 80milliseconds (.08 sec). Mainly because it's dual-clutched..
.
     
RGB
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Aug 13, 2007, 10:49 PM
 
I leased an 07 4 door with DSG last week, myself. I love this car. It's really freaking quick, with plenty of torque available from as low as 1,800RPM through 5,000RPM. Back seat has plenty of room, and with the seats folded down it makes for a decent hauler of large stuff.

The DSG is wonderful. Between drive, sport mode, the manual shifting on the knob, and the paddle shifters on the wheel, it can be driven at various degrees of "fun" depending on the situation.

I just wish I didn't have to throttle my mileage thanks to the lease - I'd drive it all day if I could.
     
jebjeb
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Aug 14, 2007, 02:54 AM
 
I believe I was partly correct, partly incorrect.

The DSG boxes can make a "shift" in around 8ms. This is when a gear is preselected and is just the time for one clutch to disengage (the gear one is shifting out of) and the other clutch to engage (the new gear being shifted into). The 200ms quoted time appears to be a worst case scenario for when the 'box has failed to preselect the correct next gear so it is the time from when a shift is requested, the correct next gear is selected in the box, and the the clutches doing their things. Many of the DSG boxes can work in between this as well. If in auto mode or a slower manual mode, they can do the clutch work a bit slower to effectively blur the shift a little better to emulate an torque convertor auto's smoothness. Although, they are pretty damn smooth already and much smoother than the other robotised manuals.

DSG is much more forgiving on the mechanical than the other robotised manuals such as BMW's SMG II and Ferrari's F1. Macroy, I can't remember if you had SMG in your M3 or if it was a standard manual but I am sure that you have probably driven one. They can be pretty harsh in the fastest mode can't they. The DSG boxes have much more sympathy for the internals as it is not really fast shifting that is occuring, but fast... "clutching".
     
macroy
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Aug 14, 2007, 08:02 AM
 
Originally Posted by jebjeb View Post
.... Macroy, I can't remember if you had SMG in your M3 or if it was a standard manual but I am sure that you have probably driven one. They can be pretty harsh in the fastest mode can't they. The DSG boxes have much more sympathy for the internals as it is not really fast shifting that is occuring, but fast... "clutching".
I had a SMG. And yes, at S6, it felt like you broke something when it shifted. You can actually hear a loud THUD (imagine someone slamming a bat down onto homeplate) at each shift. But once you get used to it, it was a real rush. But the biggest rush was down shifting, you can go from 6 to 1 (as long as the rev limiter ok's it) as fast as you can press the paddle or stick (or alternate the two), and it would perfectly rev match for you.

The biggest complaint is that its pretty much an all or nothing deal. There is absolutely no refinement in that gearbox. If you try to drive it smoothly (but fast), you'd look like you've never driven a manual before.

I think DSG is the best of all worlds (except for the fact that you take a bit out of the manual fun). BMW's version is being developed for the new M3 I believe.
.
     
talisker
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Aug 14, 2007, 08:46 AM
 
Originally Posted by BadKosh View Post
VW-Porsche-Audi - all 1 company.
Sort of. Porsche owns a substantial stake in the Volkswagen Group, whose brands include VW, Audi, Skoda, SEAT, Lamborghini, Bentley and Bugatti.

The strongest sharing of engineering, design etc seems to be between Skoda, VW and Audi, who make basically the same cars under different badges and prices.
     
imitchellg5
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Aug 14, 2007, 02:28 PM
 
Originally Posted by macroy View Post
I had a SMG. And yes, at S6, it felt like you broke something when it shifted. You can actually hear a loud THUD (imagine someone slamming a bat down onto homeplate) at each shift. But once you get used to it, it was a real rush. But the biggest rush was down shifting, you can go from 6 to 1 (as long as the rev limiter ok's it) as fast as you can press the paddle or stick (or alternate the two), and it would perfectly rev match for you.

The biggest complaint is that its pretty much an all or nothing deal. There is absolutely no refinement in that gearbox. If you try to drive it smoothly (but fast), you'd look like you've never driven a manual before.

I think DSG is the best of all worlds (except for the fact that you take a bit out of the manual fun). BMW's version is being developed for the new M3 I believe.
Yeah, the SMG was pretty bad. I've been in a Z4 with one and it was like riding with someone learning how to drive a stick.
     
   
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