[Shaddim]

Originally posted by Tulkas:
Yeah I bet thats going to really drive down prices. I mean the ELDERLY won't be on the road. Oh what will we do???

We'll celebrate and not be so paranoid... I can't stand the way most old people drive.

[Stratus Fear]

Originally posted by MacNStein:
We'll celebrate and not be so paranoid... I can't stand the way most old people drive.

Me and you both, buddy

[talisker]

Originally posted by mitchell_pgh:
P.S. We produce almost 1/2 of our own oil...

That's not the difference - the UK is self sufficient in oil, and yet prices are much higher. As Willed has pointed out, the key difference is that UK petrol prices are taxed to buggery.

As to the reasons for the current rise in US oil prices, the fact that Iraq is far down the list of suppliers is irrelevant. The oil the the US imports (i.e. around 60% of its needs) is traded at the global oil price, irrespective of where it comes from. The fact that there is currently instability in Iraq is certainly threatening supply from that area, and therefore putting upwards pressure on the price. OPEC obviously work this to their advantage as well.

[Fyre4ce]

Originally posted by selfabduction68:
These 'boycott for a day' things are stupid. Why? People buy more gas the next day, or the day before. It does NOTHING, since hte consumption of gas is still the same. If you want to make a statement and stick it to the oil companies, sell the god damn SUV and buy an efficient compact.

- Rob

Amen, brotha!

[willed]

Originally posted by mitchell_pgh:
You couldn't be more wrong.

1) We get less then 3% of our oil from Iraq
2) The price hike is because of the Organization of Petroleum Exporting Countries (OPEC) artificially inflating prices (like every year). This year it's randomly harsh.

Ever notice how when one oil supertanker sinks or hits ground oil prices shoot up by a dime etc. It's BS because that one supertanker wasn't even a percentage of a days used oil. And by adding 10� to a gallon, they could buy multiple supertankers of oil.

US Oil - production:
8,054,000 million bbl/day (2001 est.)

US Oil - consumption:
19,650,000 million bbl/day (2001 est.)

Oil the us receives from Iraq per day
525,000 bbl/day

We get most of our oil from:
*) United States - approximately 40%
1) Canada
2) Saudi Arabia
3) Mexico
4) Venezuela
5) Nigeria

In that order. Iraq is #6

OPEC also seems to be pissed because the US is now purchasing more oil from Canada and Mexico...

You're missing the point. As I stated in my post, the problem is that prices are going up because there is instability in the Middle East. That doesn't just make Middle-Eastern oil more expensive; that makes all oil more expensive, wherever it comes from. Supply and demand. Therefore although you can be very proud of the fact that you produce much of your own oil, that doesn't make any difference to the fact that the market price for oil, worldwide, is up, therefore your petrol price will be higher. OPEC may be able to do something about this. Your government cannot, really, and, as I concluded in my last post, your local petrol-station owner certainly cannot. So again, you're protesting to the wrong people.

[edit] Yeah, like talisker said.

[quandarry]

don't forget to fill up your tanks to-nite for the big day tomorrow.

[olePigeon]

United States gets employee discounts on oil. (Thanks John Stuart. )

Originally posted by talisker:
Just fyi, you lucky cheapo-petrol Americans, just out of interest I checked out how these supposedly "high" new prices compare with two other countries I'm familiar with. The results are:

USA US$1.84 per US gallon
New Zealand NZ$1.20 per litre = US$2.70 per US gallon
UK 80p per litre = US$5.31 per US gallon

Yes, that's $5.31 per gallon. So enough of yer whining.

[tie]

Two ways you can work to reduce gas prices:

- Conserve gas
- Shop for the best price

Where I am, the big oil companies (Shell, etc.) have stations with prices generally 25-30 cents higher than independent stations (usually 25 cents, but when gas prices fall, they wait a little longer to adjust their prices). Unfortunately, the closest local station was just bought out, and immediately jacked its prices 30 cents. They're now at $2.30, and I have to drive two more blocks to get $2.05.

[UNTeMac]

Gas prices before: $1.50/gallon
Gas prices now: $2.00/gallon

Price of a 14 gallon tank before: $21.00
Price of a 14 gallon tank now: $28.00

Price increase of $7.00 per tank of gasoline. Assume everyone fills up about 4 times a month with the average commute. That's $28.00 extra dollars a month on gasoline on average or $336.00 per year increase in spending on fuel assuming prices remain at this level which they won't.

Average American income: $44,228

Average percentage of fuel cost increase related to income: 0.7%.

Very rough estimates of course but it helps to visualize it.

My point is there are worse problems in the world than rising gas prices. While I know that the price of oil affects the prices of a lot of things, there's not a lot of need to worry about it. The market drives us, when the price gets so high that it drives us to seek alternate methods (which it is) then the problem fixes itself.

[selfabduction68]

I feel warm inside when I see SUVs now.

Suckers!

- Rob

[Kilbey]

I think you guys have missed a key way to save gas and get cars off the street.

CAR POOL!!!!

We have 4 guys in our car pool. My drive to work is 65-70 miles one way. When I drive myself to work my weekly gas bill is about $70 - $75.

Now with car pooling it's usually about $20 a week.

Plus, the big kicker, there are less cars on the road clogging the highways.

Plus less wear on our vehicles and fewer oil changes.

Please consider car pooling.

Oh, and all of us have SUVs. It makes the car pool much more comfortable.

[Rev-O]

Dammit! It's almost midnight here, and I have gas. My only hope is that it will be entirely evacuated in the next couple of minutes. I'd hate to be the first one to break the boycott and let you guys down.

damn you Pork and Beans... damn you to hell...

[quandarry]

hey!...what's with all the stalled cars all over the friggin' place?

[djohnson]

Originally posted by quandarry:
hey!...what's with all the stalled cars all over the friggin' place?

Was this today? Oh wait, I wont need gas for another 2 or 3 weeks

[ghost_flash]

I'm boycotting crude oil. Don't ask.

[Xeo]

If I would have gone out today, I would have bought gas. I have an empty tank and was already prepared to do so. The fact that I was finishing up a large final project for a class is the only thing that kept me in.

[Applefreak01]

I was reading that if you adjust for 2004 inflation prices of gas in May of 1981 gas prices were $2.81 USD. What's stupid is we (the US) have a huge oil reserve that we could open to help lower prices. But unless we start seeing $3.00/gallon that's not going to happen.

Hopefully these higher prices will lead to new fuel technologies like fuel cell and hydrogen fuel. I wonder what the day will be like when we have no more oil and gas... I guess hopefully by then we'll have something to replace oil and gas but we'll be long dead before that happens.

So hop in your Hummers and start pumping (if you don't care) or start riding your bikes if you are planing on bycotting gas

[ghost_flash]

Originally posted by Applefreak01:
I was reading that if you adjust for 2004 inflation prices of gas in May of 1981 gas prices were $2.81 USD. What's stupid is we (the US) have a huge oil reserve that we could open to help lower prices. But unless we start seeing $3.00/gallon that's not going to happen.

Hopefully these higher prices will lead to new fuel technologies like fuel cell and hydrogen fuel. I wonder what the day will be like when we have no more oil and gas... I guess hopefully by then we'll have something to replace oil and gas but we'll be long dead before that happens So hop in your Hummers and start pumping (if you don't care) or start riding your bikes if you are planing on bycotting gas.

Uhm. That "reserve" would last *one week*.

How much more will it cost you to go from point a to point b? Not that much for the average consumer, do the math.

$2.00 per gallon / 10 gallon tank of gas = $20.00
$1.75 per gallon / 10 gallon tank of gas = $17.50

I am one to seek to conserve our resources, and personally would love to own a nice little hybrid, or higher mileage vehicle. It will be our next purchase as we only have one car at the moment.

Higher prices won't lead to anything, as it is cyclic, and it will go down. There will be a greater number of more attractive hybrids coming out for those of us who would rather spend our money on other more important things than gas, such as food and the *internet* .

[Applefreak01]

Originally posted by ghost_flash:
Uhm. That "reserve" would last *one week*.

How much more will it cost you to go from point a to point b? Not that much for the average consumer, do the math.

$2.00 per gallon / 10 gallon tank of gas = $20.00
$1.75 per gallon / 10 gallon tank of gas = $17.50

For some the difference may be worth it. And the reserve has some odd "billions" of gallons of oil which would last more than a week.

[finboy]

Originally posted by Applefreak01:
I was reading that if you adjust for 2004 inflation prices of gas in May of 1981 gas prices were $2.81 USD. What's stupid is we (the US) have a huge oil reserve that we could open to help lower prices. But unless we start seeing $3.00/gallon that's not going to happen.

Hopefully these higher prices will lead to new fuel technologies like fuel cell and hydrogen fuel. I wonder what the day will be like when we have no more oil and gas... I guess hopefully by then we'll have something to replace oil and gas but we'll be long dead before that happens.

So hop in your Hummers and start pumping (if you don't care) or start riding your bikes if you are planing on bycotting gas

What's REALLY stupid is 1) people thinking that a boycott of an essential commodity will change prices, and 2) that the strategic oil reserve could be released and therefore change prices. Both of those beliefs illustrate how economically illiterate folks in the US are. The second one is politically driven -- the Left wants you to believe that and spread it around. It's BS.

[ghost_flash]

Originally posted by Applefreak01:
For some the difference may be worth it. And the reserve has some odd "billions" of gallons of oil which would last more than a week.

Look, I'm just telling you what the Energy Czar said on CNN. One Week, and it would make no difference to anyone. It is for emergencies only. Don't spread lies.

It's not that big of a deal, unless you drive a Hummer that is... but then again, if you can afford a Hummer, you can afford the gas.

[selfabduction68]

http://www.suvhate.org/images/intro1.jpg

[ghost_flash]

Cash:

Eloquent as usual.

[Kilbey]

Why do you try to be so offensive Rob? Haven't your many bannings taught you anything?

Oh, and "reported".

[milhous]

As crazy as it sounds, I wouldn't mind seeing more diesel cars in the US. Granted the performance may not be as good as gasoline cars, but they do get incredible gas mileage--especially those TDIs.

Although they do appear to make a greater impact on the environment as one wouldn't be able to buy an MB E320CDI in CA, ME, MA, NY, and VT

[Sherwin]

Originally posted by ghost_flash:
Cash:

Boring little commie anti-SUV whore as usual.

Fixed.

Originally posted by milhous:

As crazy as it sounds, I wouldn't mind seeing more diesel cars in the US. Granted the performance may not be as good as gasoline cars, but they do get incredible gas mileage--especially those TDIs.

Performance in modern diesels is very, very good these days. In fact, due to the mid-range torque the BMW 330D is the pick (most drivable, one of the fastest) of the current non-M 3 Series range.

[ghost_flash]

Originally posted by milhous:
As crazy as it sounds, I wouldn't mind seeing more diesel cars in the US. Granted the performance may not be as good as gasoline cars, but they do get incredible gas mileage--especially those TDIs.

Although they do appear to make a greater impact on the environment as one wouldn't be able to buy an MB E320CDI in CA, ME, MA, NY, and VT

I'm with you.

I was watching an interesting show about radio telescopes and we in the USA have a specail "Quiet Zone" especially for listening to space, and the only vehicles allowed nearby are diesel. It would appear that normal vehicles have spark plugs which emit a low frequency sound that interferes with the operations of their telescopes.

They also last longer too.

[mitchell_pgh]

Originally posted by Applefreak01:
For some the difference may be worth it. And the reserve has some odd "billions" of gallons of oil which would last more than a week.

FACT BUSTER

US Oil Reserve
http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/...k/geos/us.html
22.45 billion bbl

US Oil used per day
http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/...k/geos/us.html
19.65 million bbl/day

Time it would take to deplete our oil reserve.
1143 days or 3.13 years.

(feel free to check me on that)

[ghost_flash]

Originally posted by mitchell_pgh:
FACT BUSTER

US Oil Reserve
http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/...k/geos/us.html
22.45 billion bbl

US Oil used per day
http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/...k/geos/us.html
19.65 million bbl/day

Time it would take to deplete our oil reserve.
1143 days or 3.13 years.

(feel free to check me on that)

You could have posted one link. They are the same basically.
That is "OIL" reserves, not "Fuel" reserves. You need to refine the oil...
It would have no impact on the prices of the gasoline. None.

The "Fuel" reserves are not listed, so I'm standing by the initial statement of
one week's worth of refined "emergency fuel" reserves.

[mitchell_pgh]

Originally posted by Applefreak01:
I was reading that if you adjust for 2004 inflation prices of gas in May of 1981 gas prices were $2.81 USD. What's stupid is we (the US) have a huge oil reserve that we could open to help lower prices. But unless we start seeing $3.00/gallon that's not going to happen.

I feel our oil reserve should be kept only for time of war. Perhaps 22 billion bbls is a bit much, but it's like using your emergency air tank when deep sea diving. When we dip in to it, it should be for emergencies or political strong-arming (to show that we aren't 100% dependent on any other country as every country should be to some degree) only.

Originally posted by Applefreak01:
Hopefully these higher prices will lead to new fuel technologies like fuel cell and hydrogen fuel. I wonder what the day will be like when we have no more oil and gas... I guess hopefully by then we'll have something to replace oil and gas but we'll be long dead before that happens.

So true. I really hope people jump on board alternative energies, but I'm afraid only higher fuel prices are going to get us there. High fuel prices killed the "muscle car mentality" of the 80's... perhaps a good $2.30 gallon of gas will do the same now.

I think the motor companies need to start looking in to "fuel economy luxury vehicles". Just because I want to buy a BMW doesn't mean that I want to have a gas guzzler.

[SeSawaya]

hw much tax is on a gallon of gas? I'm sure that wont change now since we have some rather large bills to pay for over seas right now.


the US oil reserve, dose that include oil still in Alaska and Texas and such?

[mitchell_pgh]

Originally posted by ghost_flash:
You could have posted one link. They are the same basically.
That is "OIL" reserves, not "Fuel" reserves. You need to refine the oil...
It would have no impact on the prices of the gasoline. None.

The "Fuel" reserves are not listed, so I'm standing by the initial statement of
one week's worth of refined "emergency fuel" reserves.

I seem to find numbers defending your statement, and numbers saying 30-40 days and up to a year... very strange. I'm sure it's all one big spin...

[ghost_flash]

Originally posted by mitchell_pgh:
I seem to find numbers defending your statement, and numbers saying 30-40 days and up to a year... very strange. I'm sure it's all one big spin...

I agree, it is quite confusing.

I would err on the Placebo effect, and give the benefit of the doubt to not opening the reserves. Who benefits by not doing this? Who benefits by doing this? If one askes these two questions, it may be clearer that it is in nobody's interest except the president to open the reserves prior to election time. If Bush I. did it as well, and I have read such on the Political Forum, I still tend to agree... It is only beneficial to the sitting president...

[mitchell_pgh]

Originally posted by ghost_flash:
I agree, it is quite confusing.

I would err on the Placebo effect, and give the benefit of the doubt to not opening the reserves. Who benefits by not doing this? Who benefits by doing this? If one askes these two questions, it may be clearer that it is in nobody's interest except the president to open the reserves prior to election time. If Bush I. did it as well, and I have read such on the Political Forum, I still tend to agree... It is only beneficial to the sitting president...

I've come to the conclusion that no matter whet Bush does, in the eyes of the public, it's wrong.

[tie]

Originally posted by ghost_flash:
I agree, it is quite confusing.

I would err on the Placebo effect, and give the benefit of the doubt to not opening the reserves. Who benefits by not doing this? Who benefits by doing this? If one askes these two questions, it may be clearer that it is in nobody's interest except the president to open the reserves prior to election time. If Bush I. did it as well, and I have read such on the Political Forum, I still tend to agree... It is only beneficial to the sitting president...

Even if the reserve isn't much, it can have a large effect on prices, energy demand being rather inelastic (steep demand curve). Nobody is talking about stopping all imported oil and living off the reserve for a week -- just about marginally increasing the amount available.

It would certainly have a downward effect on prices, although just a slight one. Really, we need serious long-term (and short-term, e.g. supporting hybrid cars) measures to reduce our dependence on oil -- this is the most effective way to pressure OPEC. But American oil companies love higher gas prices, and they're the ones who have written our national energy policy.

Bush did make a campaign promise that he would pressure OPEC to lower gas prices.

[ghost_flash]

Originally posted by tie:
Even if the reserve isn't much, it can have a large effect on prices, energy demand being rather inelastic (steep demand curve). Nobody is talking about stopping all imported oil and living off the reserve for a week -- just about marginally increasing the amount available.

It would certainly have a downward effect on prices, although just a slight one. Really, we need serious long-term (and short-term, e.g. supporting hybrid cars) measures to reduce our dependence on oil -- this is the most effective way to pressure OPEC. But American oil companies love higher gas prices, and they're the ones who have written our national energy policy.

Bush did make a campaign promise that he would pressure OPEC to lower gas prices.

Tie: There is no way it will have an effect on prices. It will take longer to lower them than it took to raise them by far. Greedy-MFing people...

I guess he'll fulfill that promise come November.

[RobOnTheCape]

I heard an interesting discussion concerning oil prices today and on gas taxes - southern states usually have the least amount of tax - about 10+ cents -except for Alaska is about 8 cents I think. More interesting though was one gent who stated that it's not so much oil producers causing the price spike, but moreover it's the refineries. There simply aren't enough refineries out there to meet world demand. With China wanting ever more oil for its booming manufacturing sector, and Japan coming back, the refineries that shut down a few years back are coming back to haunt us . Worse it that it the refinery companies aren't anxious to build new refineries here in the US because they estimate it takes approximately 20 years to recoup their investment. This wouldn't have been a problem before, but with the coming of hybrids, and then fuel cell, and whatever else seems to be down the pike, they figure these plants might not pay off in that 20 years time.

Went on to say that people in the states got very concerned in the seventies after the price spikes then, and started to look for more fuel economy, but we all simply reverted back to the gas hogs that we love so much. Hope the same doesn't hapen again.

I have a car that gets about 30ish, and am now on the waiting list for a Prius(50 mpg, but one year wait I'm told). Too bad there's no room in the Honda Insight - at 70 mpgs that would solve a helluva lot of shortage problems.

I think the problem is a simple one to solve. tax credits for energy conservation - for hybrid cars, energy efficient lighting(geared towards new or retro fitting commercial construction - hell - even covering building rooftops white in the summer(this has shown significant reductions in sections of large citys).

However, the largest hurdle is to simply get people to think about the big picture. A boycott for a day is barely a drop in the bucket, but lifestyle changes will be the greatest contribution we can make to national security.

[Kilbey]

Gas today was $2.19 / gal. Yesterday during the gas boycott it was $2.05.

I guess you guys really showed them.

The answer to your gas woes, if available, CAR POOL!!!

[Link]

The answer is, respect your vehicles. They burn gas so you can have the privilege of moving about town without having to deal with a schedule or long walks to bus stops or whatnot.

Perhaps the rising prices will make people respect and appreciate their privileges more instead of abusing them and acting as if they're their rights. You don't have to drive your car to the city, you pay for the privilege to do so if it's more convinient OR if your job makes it more than worth it.

Besides, it's gas.. if you have a problem with the price then you should look into cheaper alternatives, of which there are plenty. I've found that hybrids, while going a mere 10mpg more than conventional cars, are actually a great idea. IMHO, nobody needs a 350HP engine that can go 200mph when the speed limits are 65 in most places, and the price of hybrid cars is not that much different from the average economy car -- plus the gas savings are well worth it.

Anyway it IS a privilege, and most of the people in the US are complaining about their petty $2.25 a gallon while other countries are paying as much as $5-6 a gallon (this is actually true almost every BUT the US).

[Kilbey]

A small tip.

Check your tire pressures. Most people don't check this often enough and are usually low.

This will affect your gas mileage significantly.