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ratlater · Jun 25, 2003, 02:09 PM

Originally posted by Skywalkers new Hand:
Sexy login, thanks.

Anywho, can ANYONE with a computer without QE support please tell us if Expose still works?

Works like a charm.

-matt

SomeToast · Jun 25, 2003, 02:10 PM

[list=1][*]The Finder toolbar can be viewed as icon only. Can it still be text only? (screenshot if so?

)[*]Someone asked early on if there was a way to copy a filename from a save dialog to the filename field by clicking/mod-clicking a file's name in the list. I didn't see a reply, I'd practically pay the $130 for that feature alone.[*]Since metal is becoming so pervasive, did they fix the window behavior so it works like Aqua?[/list=1]

Open two windows in Safari so they overlap
Click the Close widget of the back-most window
Does the window activate and come to the foreground for a split second before closing (wrong, 10.2.x way) or does it quietly close in the background? (Aqua window behavior)

It's those collections of little things that make up a big difference...

Thanks for all the great info so far, brave early adopters, er, developers!

jokell82 · Jun 25, 2003, 02:12 PM

Originally posted by eVo:
Do popup menus created near the bottom of the screen (above the dock) annoyingly show up like this? (This was created by control+clicking on the Report Abuse link)

Or do they show the entire contents of the menu like they should without having to scroll down?

The latter.

Glad to see that was fixed as well...

jokell82 · Jun 25, 2003, 02:16 PM

Originally posted by SomeToast:
[list=1][*]The Finder toolbar can be viewed as icon only. Can it still be text only? (screenshot if so? )[*]Someone asked early on if there was a way to copy a filename from a save dialog to the filename field by clicking/mod-clicking a file's name in the list. I didn't see a reply, I'd practically pay the $130 for that feature alone.[*]Since metal is becoming so pervasive, did they fix the window behavior so it works like Aqua?[/list=1]
Open two windows in Safari so they overlap

Click the Close widget of the back-most window

Does the window activate and come to the foreground for a split second before closing (wrong, 10.2.x way) or does it quietly close in the background? (Aqua window behavior)

It's those collections of little things that make up a big difference...

Thanks for all the great info so far, brave early adopters, er, developers!

1)

2) I'm not sure I understand what you mean by this. Maybe explain it a little better?

3) It closes quietly in the background.

OwlBoy · Jun 25, 2003, 02:18 PM

Whoa, look what I found:

In preview, hold option then drag on the image.

I cant get it to do anything, but I think this is just for high-lighting, or its half of a cropping feature.

-Owl

jokell82 · Jun 25, 2003, 02:20 PM

Originally posted by OwlBoy:
Whoa, look what I found:

In preview, hold option then drag on the image.

I cant get it to do anything, but I think this is just for high-lighting, or its half of a cropping feature.

-Owl

It's part of the cropping feature, there's an icon for it in the toolbar which becomes active when you do it...

SomeToast · Jun 25, 2003, 02:21 PM

#1 & #3, outstanding!

#2: If you have a save dialog open, with the filename field saying something like "Untitled", can you click/double-click/command-click the name of an existing file in the directory list so that name replaces "Untitled"?

Utilities like Action Files used to be able to do this (before Navigation Services showed up and broke it). My understanding is that this is built into Windows.

[edit] I could have sworn when I first saw your screenshot, the Finder toolbar was text-only, now it's icon-only -- was I hallucinating?

Michel Fortin · Jun 25, 2003, 02:21 PM

Originally posted by ambush:
Yep, I really like the built it dmg support in the finder. You can eject and mount easily and rapidly.

You'll like it, CheesePuff!

That's good... but I'm curious, how do you create DMGs? In Jaguar I put Disk Copy in the dock and when I want to archive a folder I just drag it to Disk Copy... I heard disk copy is now integrated with Disk Utility?

jokell82 · Jun 25, 2003, 02:31 PM

Originally posted by SomeToast:
#1 & #3, outstanding!

#2: If you have a save dialog open, with the filename field saying something like "Untitled", can you click/double-click/command-click the name of an existing file in the directory list so that name replaces "Untitled"?

Utilities like Action Files used to be able to do this (before Navigation Services showed up and broke it). My understanding is that this is built into Windows.

[edit] I could have sworn when I first saw your screenshot, the Finder toolbar was text-only, now it's icon-only -- was I hallucinating?

First, all you have to do is click on a file, and the text in the "save as" dialog will switch to that file name.

And sorry, I changed the picture to take out some personal info, but I forgot to make it text only. It should look ok now...

Alex Duffield · Jun 25, 2003, 02:38 PM

Can some one show a shot of browsing AFP or SMB network servers/volumes in the finder?

thanks.

Spheric Harlot · Jun 25, 2003, 02:41 PM

Originally posted by ambush:
Well if it's not, they imitate it very well. I'm prett sure it is, because the finder is a .app package.

Um...it's a .app in 10.2 as well. That one's Carbon, though.

Spheric Harlot · Jun 25, 2003, 02:41 PM

Originally posted by JB72:
I really wish they included a quick launch with that appearence. Like a key or "gesture" that would fills the screen with your faves.

This has been part of OS X since 10.0.

The mouse gesture is pretty intuitive: you just move the cursor over the Dock and click.

neilw · Jun 25, 2003, 02:46 PM

Wow, this all sounds awesome. Time for my question:

Is Preview halfway intelligent about zooming?

Explanation: Currently, when opening a document, Preview will size the window to fit an entire page. On my 15" TiBook, this often results in unreadably small text for Portrait-mode documents. Resizing the window will not zoom the document. Therefore, you must resort to zooming in and then resizing the window to eliminate the horizontal scrollbar. It's a pain. I don't know if I've explained it well but it really makes the current Preview somewhat unpleasant as a PDF reader.

Acrobat reader is nicer in having it's three size buttons at the top, that pretty much do what you'd want.

fetopher · Jun 25, 2003, 03:15 PM

I've got an answer to the fast user switching questions. I started a file transfer of about 10 GB in the finder and a download or two in Safari. I then switched users and opened up Safari. I was able to browse around, and download things with no problems. A few minutes later I went back to the original user and both the transfer in the Finder and the downloads in Safari were done. No problems. I then opened up a new file in Photoshop. Switched users again and told it to restart. Then a dialog box pops up that reads, "There are currently loffed in useres who may lose unsaved changes if you restart this computer." It then goes on to explain that I will lose changes...yada yada yada, then ask for the admin user and pass to restart. I entered the info, clicked restart, and it restarted. Upon restart, the photoshop documet is lost, no saved changes.

Hope this helps.

OwlBoy · Jun 25, 2003, 03:36 PM

Originally posted by fetopher:
I've got an answer to the fast user switching questions. I started a file transfer of about 10 GB in the finder and a download or two in Safari. I then switched users and opened up Safari. I was able to browse around, and download things with no problems. A few minutes later I went back to the original user and both the transfer in the Finder and the downloads in Safari were done. No problems. I then opened up a new file in Photoshop. Switched users again and told it to restart. Then a dialog box pops up that reads, "There are currently loffed in useres who may lose unsaved changes if you restart this computer." It then goes on to explain that I will lose changes...yada yada yada, then ask for the admin user and pass to restart. I entered the info, clicked restart, and it restarted. Upon restart, the photoshop documet is lost, no saved changes.

Hope this helps.

Yeah, I have opened iTunes on an account, started playing music shared from my Powerbook, switched users, opened up iTunes again, and played another track from the powerbook. Switched to ANOTHER user, one that had a CPU monitor in the menubar, and it was bobing at 25% CPU, pretty damn good if you ask me.

700 mHz iMac G4

-Owl

JLL · Jun 25, 2003, 03:39 PM

Originally posted by ambush:
Well if it's not, they imitate it very well. I'm prett sure it is, because the finder is a .app package.

.app bundles has absolutely nothing to with it being Carbon or Cocoa (or Java for that matter).

And what do you mean by imitate it? Didn't it occur to you that Carbon and Cocoa could be much more alike feature wise in Panther?

Nonsuch · Jun 25, 2003, 03:53 PM

Originally posted by Heady:
Wow. They actually brought back the Mac OS 9 popup which shows the path to the current location.

That's a good thing.

Tell that to the developers of Default Folder.

I'm getting more excited about Panther now that I'm hearing about all these little niceties. It also seems like pretty much everyone is impressed with the speed. I may upgrade after all ...

fetopher · Jun 25, 2003, 04:05 PM

Originally posted by OwlBoy:
Yeah, I have opened iTunes on an account, started playing music shared from my Powerbook, switched users, opened up iTunes again, and played another track from the powerbook. Switched to ANOTHER user, one that had a CPU monitor in the menubar, and it was bobing at 25% CPU, pretty damn good if you ask me.

700 mHz iMac G4

-Owl

Hmm... That's got me a little curious. I wonder what would happen if you started up iTunes (in Panther), then from a different computer played the first computer's music through rendevous. Then, switched users. Would the computer that is logged on and streaming the music be cut off? I'm reinstalling Panther, but when finished, I will try it.

fetopher · Jun 25, 2003, 04:07 PM

Also, how do you change users without having to enter a password? I cant find that option anywhere.

Thanks

GnOm · Jun 25, 2003, 04:16 PM

Originally posted by GnOm:
The only thing that I could think of that could cause ist is the driver for my M-Audio Delta Audio card.

It was indeed that driver.
Now how I'm gonna report this to Midiman/M-Audio without... umm, you know...? ;-)

cheers.

GnOm · Jun 25, 2003, 04:22 PM

I don't think it has been mentioned yet, Console.app now has a Toolbar from where you can sent the crash report directly to Mail.app. Not a big thing but very useful and it shows someone has put some thought in it.

cheers.

jokell82 · Jun 25, 2003, 04:32 PM

Originally posted by GnOm:
It was indeed that driver.
Now how I'm gonna report this to Midiman/M-Audio without... umm, you know...? ;-)

cheers.

Without umm, you know...what? First, I doubt they could tell if you have a legitimate copy of Panther or not (if that is indeed what you are nervous about). Second, I'm sure they've been given a copy for themselves and will work everything out by the time it's released.

Don't expect any drivers to be updated until Panther ships...

GnOm · Jun 25, 2003, 04:49 PM

Don't expect any drivers to be updated until Panther ships... [/B]

I just can tell for Jaguar, they had the drivers ready pretty soon, just not public on their site.

cheers.

gekko85 · Jun 25, 2003, 04:50 PM

Originally posted by fetopher:
Also, how do you change users without having to enter a password? I cant find that option anywhere.

Thanks

You can't right now. If the user has a password set, it will prompt for a password. If not, it won't.

fetopher · Jun 25, 2003, 04:53 PM

Originally posted by gekko85:
You can't right now. If the user has a password set, it will prompt for a password. If not, it won't.

Pretty sure Steve's version acted how I'd like it. Or, are you saying that his other users didnt have a password at all?

fetopher · Jun 25, 2003, 04:57 PM

Originally posted by fetopher:
Hmm... That's got me a little curious. I wonder what would happen if you started up iTunes (in Panther), then from a different computer played the first computer's music through rendevous. Then, switched users. Would the computer that is logged on and streaming the music be cut off? I'm reinstalling Panther, but when finished, I will try it.

Alright, I just tried it. After switching users on my laptop, my desktop's stream of music was not interuppted. Sweet!

On a side note, my scanner (an Epson Expression 1680 Pro) still works.

ckohler · Jun 25, 2003, 05:01 PM

Judging from the screenshots I've seen, the option for requiring or not requiring passwords when fast user switching ought to be in "System Prefs -> Accounts". Can someone with Panther check there?

TC · Jun 25, 2003, 05:03 PM

Originally posted by fetopher:
Alright, I just tried it. After switching users on my laptop, my desktop's stream of music was not interuppted. Sweet!

On a side note, my scanner (an Epson Expression 1680 Pro) still works.

But have you tried sharing it across a network yet using Image Capture?

fetopher · Jun 25, 2003, 05:09 PM

Originally posted by TC:
But have you tried sharing it across a network yet using Image Capture?

Wouldn't that require that I have two computers with Panther? If so, I'm going to try it. Only on guinea pig for now.

johnpg · Jun 25, 2003, 05:11 PM

I see from one of the screenshots (from the .sit file) that Apple Remote Desktop is listed as one of the servers you can turn on in the sharing panel. I read somewhere (was it on this thread?) that it's included in Panther. Yet I've heard elsewhere that it isn't. Apple's site doesn't mention it.

Can someone click that sharing option and try it out? I sure hope they included it. That and fast user switching were the two things I thought XP had over us. Let's hope they've corrected that.

Cheers,
John

Judge_Fire · Jun 25, 2003, 05:12 PM

Apple still has lots of time to finalize any number of yet unshown feature additions - I think there are still a number of those in the pipeline.

Question: No Tabbed Windows in Finder Yet? (like in OS 9, not like in Safari)

When Jaguar introduced those (annoyingly) sliding windows, I thought the stage was all set for the return of a great old piece of functionality.

Expos� touches on this feature, but it's not really the same - all of the benefits aren't replicated or improved upon.

J

badtz · Jun 25, 2003, 05:20 PM

Originally posted by nagromme:
If others can fax from your modem over the network... that got me wondering about faxing and AirPort:

1. Can you fax from your laptop wirelessly, via an AirPort base station connected to a phone jack?

2. Can you do that while the AirPort is ALSO on the 'net via Ethernet?

3. Can you receive faxes via AirPort?

If I could have broadband via AirPort, yet at the same time use it as my fax machine wirelessly, I'd be in heaven. Connect both Ethernet AND phone and forget about it! (I need an AirPort laptop bad.)

Thanks again! (Nice super-simple aqua desktop by the way--is that from Panther?)

I would also like to know answers to the above questions

Anyone w/Airport Extreme + Panther + Fax can help?

Neo.cmg · Jun 25, 2003, 05:22 PM

After reading through this thread, it struck me how picky we are as Mac users in how are OS works down to the finest of detail nitpicking.

Luckily it appears that in almost every instance, Panther delivers as it should.

Neo.cmg

d0ubled0wn · Jun 25, 2003, 05:36 PM

PERHAPS TEH MOST IMPOATANT QUESTIONEVAR... is window resizing still slow? And I don't mean the finder windows, I mean other apps like the browser.

GnOm · Jun 25, 2003, 05:38 PM

Originally posted by GnOm:
Preview.app doesn't work... the main window stays blank (grey)

localization issue, deselect other languages than English in the Info panel and there you go, fast Preview.

cheers.

asan102 · Jun 25, 2003, 05:50 PM

Keyboard pref pane now lets you set your own keyboard shortcuts for apps.

You mean like you could do with the F Keys in OS 9 right? Cool - does it work for other things than Apps. like applescripts? I am currently using a third-party app to enable launching apps with my F-Keys, but it's far from ideal.

And:

Can someone PLEASE explain the new grey titlebars ? From all the screen shots I've seen, it seems like some windows still have pin-striped titlebars , while others have the new grey-ish ones, apparently at random. What is the order behind this?

hamiltondj · Jun 25, 2003, 06:13 PM

My impressions...

I initially loaded panther on an external drive on my PB 12" to try it out. It seemed kinda slow. So, I then went about backing up, partitioning and then reinstalling jag and panther on the internal drive.

I've been running panther pretty much all day. No major hiccups. And it is much much faster than jag.

Also, and the point of this post, the UI tweeks seem to make OS X more "mac like" (meaning more like OS 9). It just doesn't feel - and I hope this makes sense - so "open and airy" as before. It gives you a more "solid" feeling like I experienced when I ran 9. Maybe its the speed up. Who knows.

thought you might want to know....

jaysones · Jun 25, 2003, 06:19 PM

Fast user switching does not turn on a cube on my Dual GHz with Panther, like it did in the demo. It just fades the screen out for a second, then back in with the other user account logged in. They're using the same color depth and resolution. Is there a toggle for the cube effect? I was really looking forward to this. Bummer.
Other notes-

The immediate filtered search in the Finder works great.
You can completely hide the sidebar shortcut window if you want. Just drag the divider all the way to the left.
Window resize is very, very nearly OS 9 fast. Sheets are very fast.
The new open/save dialog box rules. Infinitely more usable than the former one.
The new look of the system is great. Toned down pinstripes, very clean.
I did a clean install on a drive with no system on it, and some iLife apps (iPhoto, iTunes) were all installed, along with IE. I don't know why other users didn't have the same experience I did, but they all were put there by the installer, not Software Update.
UT2k3 absolutely rocks out on this OS!

tonyibook · Jun 25, 2003, 06:22 PM

Is it possible in Panther to print pages in reverse order? I really miss that option on my HP DeskJet.

mpmchugh · Jun 25, 2003, 06:24 PM

Originally posted by SomeToast:
Someone asked early on if there was a way to copy a filename from a save dialog to the filename field by clicking/mod-clicking a file's name in the list. I didn't see a reply, I'd practically pay the $130 for that feature alone.

A future version of Default Folder will off this feature, as it did under OS 9.

http://www.stclairsw.com/DefaultFolderX/release.html

And it will only cost you $34.95.

-mpm

- - e r i k - - · Jun 25, 2003, 06:25 PM

Originally posted by asan102:

Can someone PLEASE explain the new grey titlebars ? From all the screen shots I've seen, it seems like some windows still have pin-striped titlebars , while others have the new grey-ish ones, apparently at random. What is the order behind this?

Foremost window grey, windows in the back pinstriped.

I wish it were that easy to differentiate metal windows...

- - e r i k - - · Jun 25, 2003, 06:25 PM

Originally posted by mpmchugh:
A future version of Default Folder will off this feature, as it did under OS 9.

http://www.stclairsw.com/DefaultFolderX/release.html

And it will only cost you $34.95.

-mpm

Uhh... that's already in panther

No need to option-click even.

asan102 · Jun 25, 2003, 06:39 PM

Foremost window grey, windows in the back pinstriped.

I wish it were that easy to differentiate metal windows...

that's crazy... But i could've sworn i saw some screenshots of an active window with pinstipe titlebar... hmmm....

bgmccollum · Jun 25, 2003, 06:44 PM

ive experienced one crash. i tried to login as >console and it just hung...im afraid to try again...oh...might as well...

2 different outcomes:

when going to fast user switch, it wont let you login as console, it accepts the username and then goes blue then back to the login window.

when noone is logged in and you login as console, the resolution is all messed up. lines begin on the far right of the screen and wrap to the next line.

hmm

bgmccollum · Jun 25, 2003, 06:51 PM

now i have seem to lost all my custom icons, not just the ones i set, but ALL icons across the system...****

milfli · 03:23 AM

Is the new finder scriptable?
Folder Sync? For Backups?
Scroll wheel config?
Mouse Trails?
Thick I-Beam?
Any Inkwell Improvements?
Additions in Sherlock
Menu bar CLOCK font/color customization?
DVD Pariental Lock?
GUI for ups config? Prehaps a dynamic control panel? like inkwell
Any new kext?

here is of what panther has thus far (I don't have it but I looked around at what has been reported here and else where)

Interface
--------
Redesigned Open & Save Dialog box
Expos�
Fast User Switching
Seven New & or redesigned Fonts
More Language Support (unknown which lang)
Smooth Window Scrolling (beta)
Option Scroll for smooth page-by-page scrolling
Finder supports live quarries
Command-Tab window allows for easier application switching
Network Status in pref panel
Keyboard Shortcuts for applications
Screensaver has a larger preview window
Desktop Picture selection is a grid instead of a flat list
Redesigned Activity Monitor to show Application's Icon
More Streamlined Activity Monitor
Redesigned Apple System Profiler
System Wide User Icon (iChat, logon, addressbook, etc)
Labels
Redesigned Force Quit Dialog Box
Folder Actions in Contextual Menu
Hide in Dock Menu
Close Finder windows from Dock Menu
Show Eject Menu in Keyboard & Mouse Pref Pane
Show Classic Status in menu bar in Classic Pref Pane
"Enhance contrast" in Universal Access
ColorSync Utility has been updated with Filters (Black&White/Sepia/Blue tone/etc)
iSync Remote Device Menu
Run Multiple Installers @ once (Ques the installers don't run at same time, next one runs afterwards

Security
--------
AES-128 Home Directory aka File Vault
Secure Delete (1,7,35 pass)
Password required to wake computer
Autolock out
Keychain doesn't "forget" if app is upgraded

Applications
--------
Preview:
Preview PDF Searching
Preview supports Indexes in PDF
Preview PDFs have URL Support
Postscript & EPS Convert to PDF
Compress images in PDF files
Font book
Text Edit Supports saving and opening .doc files
Delete attachments in Mail.app (without deleteing msg)
Mail - Better Signature Support
Mail - Better Mail Header Handeling
Mail Status Notification
Mail - Threading
Address book added fields (Middle name, maiden name, nickname, department, related names, assistant)
Address book Templates
Address book auto phone format
New Help Viewer is based on Safari
New Version of Applescript

Hardware
--------
Energy Saver - Boot Scheduler
Dolby Digital Support in DVD Player
Redesigned DVD Player
Disk Copy & Disk Burner is one application
Image capture supports sharing devices over network/internet
Pixlet 48-bit video codec

File System & SWU
----------------
Software update important updates autodownload option
Software update in Apple Menu
Disk Utility now repairs boot volume
Journaled HFS+ default option
Journalling ON & Off from GUI in Disk Utility
iDisk Offline & autosync
/System/Library/Filesystems/ntfs.fs

UNIX Improvements
-------------------
Redesigned Terminal
Terminal adds recent servers (ssh , sftp, ftp and telnet) avil in the dock
Terminal adds Secure Keyboard Entry
X11
Darwin Ports

Networking
--------
FTP upload in Finder with authentication
Improved Samba Support
AutoMount now better detect disconnected servers (no hang)
GUI For configuring Ipv6
DHCP Renew Lease in Network control panel (GUI)
Restore option in Disk Utility
Improved VPN Support (L2TP over Ipsec)
Audio & Video iChat AV
Address Labels from Address book
Intigrated Send & Receive Faxes
Print Scheduling
Scan and OCR Service
Add GUI for VPN via IPsec
AppleTalk info in Network utility
IP over fIrewire is built-in

Development Tools
--------
Xcode
GCC 3.3

Possibly included in home version (server version has these features)
--------
asynchronous I/O
up to 16TB file systems
Jumbo Frames for large Ethernet packets

SomeToast · Jun 25, 2003, 07:40 PM

Originally posted by jokell82:
First, all you have to do is click on a file, and the text in the "save as" dialog will switch to that file name.

O M F'n G.

Well, that tears it. I'll be at the Mall of America at midnight when this thing is released.

TC · Jun 25, 2003, 07:49 PM

Here are all the things I've found so far:

Image Capture
Allows you to share capture devices across networks, even across the internet.
Has some kind of OCR built in, in the Services menu it says: Scan and OCR

In the finder if you try to copy something to a folder that you don't have permissions for it will pop up a window and ask you to authenticate. (or was this in 10.2?)

The finder seems a bit buggy, my main problem has been with the Netwrok browsing (strange errors + not finding servers found by 10.2) and the Places sidebar. I lost my disk from there and couldn't put it back, had to restart to get it back.

Open-Save dialogues, the great news is that you can now click on a current file in the save dialogue to have it's name copied into the text area. The bad news is that recent folders have vanished, hopefully this will come back in a similar way to how they have done recent servers in the connect to server panel.

7Macfreak · Jun 25, 2003, 08:15 PM

Originally posted by ambush:
Yep, I really like the built it dmg support in the finder. You can eject and mount easily and rapidly.

that's just too sweet

MacDork · Jun 25, 2003, 08:17 PM

Can someone verify this?

It's amazingly annoying on a Powerbook to have to hold down the "fn" key to get "F1" instead of "Brightness down"

Almost every Function key (F1-F10) have alternate functions (brightness, volume, keyboard lighting, etc), and I'd just love to be able to toggle the behaviour so that I need to hold down the "fn" key to get brightness/volume, etc.