[Cody Dawg]

Pendergast:

YOU, my friend, are a stand-up guy.

to you. You earned my respect. I, too, am sorry if I led you or anyone else to believe that I think all Palestinians (or Lebanese) are evil and corrupt. I know that they aren't. I was watching televisions today of the Palestinian children who were in the hospital after having been bombed or hurt and it made me sick.

[bstone]

Originally Posted by Pendergast

I apologize Cody. I will make it clear again:

All Palestinians are terrorists: false
All terrorists are Palestinians: false

I am sorry that puting things clearer is unfortunately impossible. I think I have put every effort to make you understand that your point of view is dramatically misguided, and you can't see the basic logical mistake you build on, which is that all Palestinians are terrorists.

I will not post further in this thread, and let you conclude as you wish.

Ad hominem.



NEXT!!!!

[Nicko]

Originally Posted by vmarks

Try this pic on for size. It better represents what I think you're trying to show.

Really now,that is hardly a fair fight. One side gets spiffy Kevlar vests while the other side has to use their acrobatic ability to dodge bullets. Although, I guess he does have the element of surprise on his side.




Thanks for the interesting propaganda pictures though.
They remind me of the one's I saw in Taipei a few years ago.
A simple balance of fear and patriotism never fails to ensure loyalty among the masses.

[Monique]

But it is true the Palestanians will use their women and daughters as a shield.

[Troll]

Before you start shouting anti-Semitism, Jonathan Shapiro, the cartoonist, is Jewish.

[vmarks]

Originally Posted by Troll

Before you start shouting anti-Semitism, Jonathan Shapiro, the cartoonist, is Jewish.

The fact that someone is Jewish should not provide any absolution for engaging in such activity. On the contrary.


Before you decide that Jews can't be anti-semites, read the words of a Democrat, a Jew, and former mayor of New York City, Ed Koch.

Koch is talking about the 'neo-cons/israel lobby/Jews control the world' nonsense, but once we recognize that Jews can be self-defeating idiots just like any other group composed of individuals capable of discrimination then it isn't hard to make that leap to view Shapiro's cartoon in the totality of what it really is.


http://www.jewishworldreview.com/020...004_02_12.php3

Yes, Jews do engage in anti-Semitic behavior

By Edward I. Koch

Of all the anti-Semitic slurs, one of the most outrageous is that Jews secretly control the world.

This false and foolish accusation has been heard many times. In March, 1997, the black Muslim cleric, Louis Farrakhan, said on CNN's "Evans and Novak" that Jews "meet once a year or so in Hollywood or in Park Avenue to look at the trends of America and the world. And if there are trends they do not like, then they write scripts, they write movies, they write books. They do things to influence the trends. And that is why I intend to stay on this path until there's some change made. Black people are going to be free of Jewish control."

Farrakhan's fabrication about Jewish power and secret conspiracies is an updated version of the infamous "Protocols of the Elders of Zion," a forgery created by the Russian Czar's secret police to incite pogroms — organized massacres against Jews. Even Henry Ford used the "Protocols" to support his well-financed rant against Jews during the days when he was rising to prominence through the production and sale of his Model-T Ford.

A comparable attack on Jews was made by Pat Buchanan in 1990, when he referred to Capitol Hill as "Israeli-occupied territory." On "The McLaughlin Group," Buchanan said, "There are only two groups that are beating the drums for war in the Middle East — the Israeli defense ministry and its 'amen corner' in the United States" with a litany of Jewish names.

Last week we heard yet another version of the same old lie, this time from Tom Friedman in his February 5th column in The New York Times. Friedman, alleging that President Bush and Vice President Dick Cheney are secretly controlled by Jews, wrote, "...Mr. Sharon has the Palestinian leader Yasir Arafat under house arrest in his office in Ramallah, and he's had George Bush under house arrest in the Oval Office. Mr. Sharon has Mr. Arafat surrounded by tanks, and Mr. Bush surrounded by Jewish and Christian pro-Israel lobbyists, by a vice president, Dick Cheney, who's ready to do whatever Mr. Sharon dictates…"


There are those who say it's paranoid to accuse a fellow Jew of an anti-Semitic remark. I don't think so. Let me cite another example: Bob Novak, a Jew by birth who converted to Catholicism and now defines himself as a "cultural Jew." Over the years Novak's constant attacks on Israel have been, I believe, thinly disguised attacks on Jews.



To cite but one example, on his Nov. 24th show, Novak went ballistic on Israel. While discussing the Israeli assassination of Mahmoud Abu Hanoud, a senior military leader of Hamas who was directly responsible for dozens of Israeli civilian deaths, Novak denounced Prime Minister Sharon for ordering his execution. Novak's colleague, Margaret Carlson, called Hanoud a terrorist, and Novak defended him as a freedom fighter. Carlson responded, "Bob, ...you're the only person who would call Hamas freedom fighters." Novak rejoined with, "Oh, no; people all over the world do."


Abe Foxman of the Anti-Defamation League, put it well when he stated, "Those who only find fault with the Jewish people, the Jewish State and the actions of the Jewish sovereignty and never find anything that is positive are anti-Semites under the guise of anti-Zionism and anti-Israel."


Now comes Tom Friedman, often proclaimed as an expert on the Mideast. When President Bush, Vice President Cheney, National Security Advisor Condoleezza Rice, Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld and, to a lesser extent, Secretary of State Colin Powell, come to the conclusion that it is in the national interest of the United States to support Israel, it must be, according to Friedman in his column of last week, because they have been brainwashed by "Jewish and Christian pro-Israel lobbyists."


Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon is so powerful, according to Friedman, that Cheney is "ready to do whatever Mr. Sharon dictates." Ridiculous. Dick Cheney is a man of enormous competence and intellectual ability with an established record of achievement and service to the nation. To suggest, as Friedman does, that he is selling out the country is an enormous disservice to Mr. Cheney and indeed to any public servant.


Did Friedman think President Bush was a puppet of the Arabs when, according to The New York Times, his father "telephoned Crown Prince Abdullah to assure him that his son's 'heart is in the right place' and that he was 'going to do the right thing' when it came to the Middle East?"


Tom Friedman, who is full of himself, believes he can resort to the anti-Semitic slur of secret Jewish control, and avoid criticism because he is a Jew. In reality, Friedman disgraced himself and his newspaper. His false words, coming at a time when anti-Semitism is skyrocketing worldwide, are particularly irresponsible and repulsive. If he is capable of feeling shame, I hope he feels it now.

[Troll]

Originally Posted by vmarks

The fact that someone is Jewish should not provide any absolution for engaging in such activity. On the contrary.

Oh, I realise that. I just wanted people to pause and think a bit before gut reacting. In any event, there's nothing vaguely anti-semitic about the cartoon.

[Athens]

Originally Posted by Monique

You know what Israel can level the entire country of Lebanon and I will never be outraged they deserve it after harbouring terrorists all this time.

one word, pathetic.

[Nicko]

Originally Posted by vmarks

The fact that someone is Jewish should not provide any absolution for engaging in such activity. On the contrary.


Before you decide that Jews can't be anti-semites, read the words of a Democrat, a Jew, and former mayor of New York City, Ed Koch.

Koch is talking about the 'neo-cons/israel lobby/Jews control the world' nonsense, but once we recognize that Jews can be self-defeating idiots just like any other group composed of individuals capable of discrimination then it isn't hard to make that leap to view Shapiro's cartoon in the totality of what it really is.

I thought your country was a democracy? Can’t a cartoonist draw a satirical cartoon without being labeled anti-Semitic (by his own people no less?). Hmm ok well lets analyze what you have said in a little more detail. You use the phrase ‘self-defeating idiots’…

It’s interesting how you consistently interpret any form of criticism of your government as being blatantly racist. It is one thing to discount such conspiracy theories such as the 'neo-cons/Israel lobby/Jews control the world' as bring absurd…but is it not also irrational to label internationally renowned journalists such as Friedman and Novak as being anti-Semitic just because they have analyzed the situation and come to a different conclusion than yourself?

In Africa, there is a similar perception to what you are displaying.
Here it’s called tribalism, where one ethnic group sees themselves as superior over another. Of course, to anyone sufficiently educated or enlightened the idea that because one is from a certain village or area makes them more superior to another is absurd. However, it is a powerful and pervasive belief non-the-less which continues to thrive to the detriment of many. Doubtless, it is advantageous for one ethnic group who finds themselves empowered by such beliefs to maintain the status quo and reap the rewards accorded to them, however in the long term these cultural practices only breed hatred, resentment, and all too often violence.

What you are advocating (or at least demonstrating) is for a culture of isolation. An isolation of ideas, allowing for no external or internal criticism. Perhaps it is necessary to have such a view in a ‘war without end’, which is what it appears your country sees itself in. However, once one realizes that what Israel/Jordan/Palestine are involved in is not a unique situation, but rather quite common among many ethic groups around the world, solutions are possible.

Now you might ask, how is it that people like myself tend to emphasize what Israel is doing wrong and not the ‘other side’. Well its quite simple, the group with the most influence, power, resources, is always the one that must take the lead to find peace. Look at any ethnic conflict around the world and you will find that peace is found only through reconciliation, not by carpet bombing. As the military ‘superpower’ of the region it is Israel’s responsibility to use that power to preserve the peace for everyone, not provoke more violence. Murdering hundreds of innocent civilians and directly targeting UN officials is what one might expect from N.Korea, Iran, or Iraq, not a functioning democracy.

[Ilgaz]

If you dare to say Israel is wrong bombing the only Mideast country with a hope of democracy and secularism, they pick on you on a channel full of mac users, bugging you until you leave the channel and give it up.

Real good strategy I must say...

Israel is always right since nobody stays around who would dare to say they are wrong on this particular issue. It was the same story some decades ago in a different geography.

If there are Israelis here, think just 10 secs about why some random, secular Turk calls this "wrong" and why same person didn't even care to speak/comment about anything happening in Mid East to this day.

As a person in region, I must say some powers are using BOTH as puppets of their own agenda/game. Even our fundamentalist wannabe govt. in Turkey are happy since everyone forgot about what is happening, happened and happen if they keep dividing people and carry their weird actions in politics and economy.

Average citizen turns on TV and says "Oh, look, evil Israel" or (yes, they exist too) "yay, they are killing those Arabs who stabbed us from back in ww1"

It is a lame puppet theatre with real people dying.

I tell my Turkish friends same thing too. Look at those corrupt guys in government, corrupt companies, corrupt media. Could they exist in a non problematic country like Norway for example? Would they go this far?

I don't know Arabic or Hebrew but I bet "Look at the situation, we are not living in peaceful territory" kind of response is given to whoever asks why nothing done against corrupt institutions.

Don't ask how I know

BTW, if this message bugs some moderator which takes choices based on religion in 2006 seriously, no need to play those weird boring games, just delete post AND my account will ya?

[iREZ]

Originally Posted by Pendergast

I will do one last effort, because in the end, it is amusing.

There are Palestinians who are terrorists: true
All Palestinians are terrorists: false
All terrorists are Palestinians: false
Some mothers are Palestinians: true
All Palestinians are mothers: false
Some mothers are terrorists: true
All terrorists are mothers: false
All Palestinian mothers are terrorists: false
Some mothers who are Palestinians are also terrorists: true
All Palestinians who are mothers have children: true
All terrorists who are Palestinians and mothers and used their children in terrorist acts are terrorists: true
All Palestinian mothers with children are terrorists: false


Hope this helps, sincerily,

P.

after reading all the posts...ive come to the conclusion that if one does not understand this, then said one is a sad individual.

[Ilgaz]

I am not a frequent user of macnn and especially its forums but thanks (!) to these horrible happenings in my region and the feedback of the people who _run_ this network I figured creating an account and using the site was not a good idea at all.

If Macnn.com is more open on their extreme level religious beliefs and some fanaticism among the team which runs this network, it would be much more ethical.

[Y3a]

Originally Posted by Ilgaz

I am not a frequent user of macnn and especially its forums but thanks (!) to these horrible happenings in my region and the feedback of the people who _run_ this network I figured creating an account and using the site was not a good idea at all.

so why are you posting??

Originally Posted by Ilgaz

I If Macnn.com is more open on their extreme level religious beliefs and some fanaticism among the team which runs this network, it would be much more ethical.

You mean if they were Islamic nutcases who only allowed other Islamic nutcases to post - you'd be OK with it? It's ethical to discuss these events, even if YOU don't agree.

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by Ilgaz

I am not a frequent user of macnn and especially its forums but thanks (!) to these horrible happenings in my region and the feedback of the people who _run_ this network I figured creating an account and using the site was not a good idea at all.

If Macnn.com is more open on their extreme level religious beliefs and some fanaticism among the team which runs this network, it would be much more ethical.

Fine, go away.

[Ilgaz]

I don't belong to any religion. If you consider me as some Islamic nutcase you are totally wrong and pathetically funny... In fact I try not getting mad here

I just get very irritated by people getting hostile to each other because of some 1400-4000 year books.

Just posting from Istanbul and saying something Lebanon attack made you tell "go away" to me adding "islamic nutcase".

That is my point. Have a nice day with your 1400 year old tale against 4000 year old tale fights.

Just get some balls and put those IDF support banners to site.

Also I know many Israelis and I am not making the ultimate stupid mistake of confusing some fanatic , comfortable Diaspora with people actually live in this neighbourhood and share same problems. It is very easy to play war games from thousand kilometres away yes?

At least they are educated enough not to confuse us with some arabic fundamentalists. We secretly or openly supported state of Israel and they have very natural right to live there.

enough arguing with some fanatics really... guys calling mac users modern, liberal etc. should view their messages somehow.

they may...

[Y3a]

Originally Posted by Ilgaz

I don't belong to any religion. If you consider me as some Islamic nutcase you are totally wrong and pathetically funny... In fact I try not getting mad here

I just get very irritated by people getting hostile to each other because of some 1400-4000 year books.

Just posting from Istanbul and saying something Lebanon attack made you tell "go away" to me adding "islamic nutcase".

That is my point. Have a nice day with your 1400 year old tale against 4000 year old tale fights.

Just get some balls and put those IDF support banners to site.

Also I know many Israelis and I am not making the ultimate stupid mistake of confusing some fanatic , comfortable Diaspora with people actually live in this neighbourhood and share same problems. It is very easy to play war games from thousand kilometres away yes?

At least they are educated enough not to confuse us with some arabic fundamentalists. We secretly or openly supported state of Israel and they have very natural right to live there.

enough arguing with some fanatics really... guys calling mac users modern, liberal etc. should view their messages somehow.

they may...

WHATEVER....


I view MY messages somehow...

[SSharon]

I'm getting a bit lost here with the Turkey stuff. The last time I was in Israel (less than 6 months ago) I flew to Turkey with many Israelis and it seemed like there was a decent relationship between the two countries.

Not all Palestinians are terrorists, ok. The problem is that there is no way to get only the terrorists. This isn't like a petty crime where you can just have a harsh sentence for repeat offenders. For many suicide bombers it is their first and only terrorist behavior.

I don't want war, but I don't want to live in a world full of terrorists. Is Israel perfect? No, but I think they try damn hard to be considering their situation.

Israel's leaders are not out to kill the arab world a few at a time. Similar to US-Mexico Israel has always benefited from Palestinian workers and they have always enjoyed having a job.

[iREZ]

what are you talking about?...

lemme get this right, its ok to wipe out an entire country/people with artilery because terrorists realize that the lebanese gov't has nobody helping to even try and stop terrorism in the country without pointless bombing and shelling, which of course lebanon wouldnt want to do in the first place.

hypothetical situation: is it ok for another superpower who hates Bush to start bombing ALL of the US because Bush supporters are the majority in this country (according to our last election)?

yeah...thats showing some humanity. also stating death tallys for sake of argument statistics (on either side of the argument) is RIDICULOUS! these are peoples lives, not points in a sick game.

[vmarks]

Originally Posted by iREZ

what are you talking about?...

lemme get this right, its ok to wipe out an entire country/people with artilery because terrorists realize that the lebanese gov't has nobody helping to even try and stop terrorism in the country without pointless bombing and shelling, which of course lebanon wouldnt want to do in the first place.

hypothetical situation: is it ok for another superpower who hates Bush to start bombing ALL of the US because Bush supporters are the majority in this country (according to our last election)?

yeah...thats showing some humanity. also stating death tallys for sake of argument statistics (on either side of the argument) is RIDICULOUS! these are peoples lives, not points in a sick game.

The Lebanese Army's website http://www.lebarmy.gov.lb/?ln=en is full of references to their “partnership” with Hizballah. http://disturbinglyyellow.org/2006/0...armys-website/

HizbAllah has elected members in Lebanon's parliament.

So how should we reconcile that with what you've said?

[voodoo]

I have thought about this for a long time and reached a conclusion. Israel is in the wrong here. I had become quite sympathetic with the plight of Israel in the Middle East, but by attacking Lebanon, a significantly Christian country and by attacking the UN peacekeepers, that sympathy has been wiped out.

Perhaps Israel had attacked Syria, a powerful Hizbulá supporter, then things would have been different.

But no. They aren't. Israel has yet again showed that it doesn't deserve to exist.

V

[iREZ]

Originally Posted by vmarks

The Lebanese Army's website http://www.lebarmy.gov.lb/?ln=en is full of references to their “partnership” with Hizballah. http://disturbinglyyellow.org/2006/0...armys-website/

HizbAllah has elected members in Lebanon's parliament.

So how should we reconcile that with what you've said?

simple...

stop lumping military with civilians, they're not one in the same.

take the lame hypothetical situation i represented earlier. if said superpower was against Bush, and obviously our soldiers would be pro Bush (after all Bush is the president to the country theyre fighting to protect and serve). so again i'll ask...is it ok for said superpower to bomb ALL of the US just because they want to eradicate Bush?

im not saying the lebanese people aren't at fault, but this issue could be handled way better and some of you seem to be so gung-ho about killing terrorists...you dont stop to think that there are equal amounts of non-terrorist-christian (amongst other religions)-civilians that are caught in the cross fire and are dying daily, not to mention the UN peacekeepers. im not saying youre points arent valid, im just saying this is turning into a big clusterf*** and it could be dealt with better. i mean the US stepped into iraq to free the people there from saddam (or whatever the lame explanation is), why cant they do the same for these high terror but low oil countries?

[Monique]

Originally Posted by voodoo

I have thought about this for a long time and reached a conclusion. Israel is in the wrong here. I had become quite sympathetic with the plight of Israel in the Middle East, but by attacking Lebanon, a significantly Christian country and by attacking the UN peacekeepers, that sympathy has been wiped out.

Perhaps Israel had attacked Syria, a powerful Hizbulá supporter, then things would have been different.

But no. They aren't. Israel has yet again showed that it doesn't deserve to exist.

V

And how did you feel with the latest terrorist attack on your country; should we say that the terrorists were right and that you have no right to any retributions whatsover??

And why didn`t you give your country to the Basque terrorists?

[voodoo]

Originally Posted by Monique

And how did you feel with the latest terrorist attack on your country; should we say that the terrorists were right and that you have no right to any retributions whatsover??

And why didn`t you give your country to the Basque terrorists?

Oh.. yeah I get it now Monique! I remember the first thing I felt when I heard of the train bombs in Madrid was that Lebanon should be attacked.

PS. Basque terrorists don't want my country.

V

[itai195]

Originally Posted by iREZ

i mean the US stepped into iraq to free the people there from saddam (or whatever the lame explanation is), why cant they do the same for these high terror but low oil countries?

As the US experience in Iraq shows, toppling a regime is much easier to do than disarming/dismantling a terrorist organization.

Personally I think Israel made the right decision to go after Hezbollah. I don't always agree with what the Israeli government does, and I generally dislike use of force, but when you do use force I think you have to use all the resources at your disposal. I'm distressed by the attack on UN observers though, and hoping there is a good explanation and/or someone is severely punished for it.

[iREZ]

good point...

but is lebanon not under a terrorist regime? at least some of you claim they are. The US doesnt wanna stir up trouble with Israel, and Israel is totally fuxoring things up in Lebanon, but i guess its ok as long as my gas prices drop a few cents. This thread gets my blood boiling, and im soo uninformed about the topic that im just gonna leave my two cents where they lie, pray for the innocent civilians...and hope my Aremenian-Orthodox Christian-Non Terrorist-Aunts/Uncles/and Cousins are doing well (can't talk to them because all the phone lines are down). im done with this thread, and i hope i didnt offend any of you...all i ask is that you stop looking at casualties of war as statistics but rather brothers/sisters/mothers/fathers/etc...

[Athens]

Originally Posted by voodoo

Oh.. yeah I get it now Monique! I remember the first thing I felt when I heard of the train bombs in Madrid was that Lebanon should be attacked.

PS. Basque terrorists don't want my country.

V

I wouldn't pay much attention to her. She is some mentally handicapped frenchie canuck with the spirit of a 90 year old cranky woman.

[Athens]

Originally Posted by itai195

As the US experience in Iraq shows, toppling a regime is much easier to do than disarming/dismantling a terrorist organization.

Personally I think Israel made the right decision to go after Hezbollah. I don't always agree with what the Israeli government does, and I generally dislike use of force, but when you do use force I think you have to use all the resources at your disposal. I'm distressed by the attack on UN observers though, and hoping there is a good explanation and/or someone is severely punished for it.

How so, if anything Iraq shows force is useless. There are more terrorists from Iraq now then ever. The key is a stable and strong government and the current attacks are making the government weaker and the terrorist stronger making it that much harder for the government.

[TETENAL]

Originally Posted by voodoo

I have thought about this for a long time and reached a conclusion. Israel is in the wrong here.

http://service.spiegel.de/cache/inte...428245,00.html

Read this opinion. It will change your mind.

[Y3a]

Originally Posted by voodoo

...but by attacking Lebanon, a significantly Christian country and by attacking the UN peacekeepers, that sympathy has been wiped out.

Perhaps Israel had attacked Syria, a powerful Hizbulá supporter, then things would have been different.

Lebanon/Syria/Iran are All Linked and all supply weapns to hezbullah. Lebanon is just a shell, it's insides eaten away by the terrorists, and strings connecting its government to those terrorists.

[Monique]

Originally Posted by Athens

I wouldn't pay much attention to her. She is some mentally handicapped frenchie canuck with the spirit of a 90 year old cranky woman.

And we are our menopause tonight, talk about cranky.

[Athens]

Originally Posted by Monique

And we are our menopause tonight, talk about cranky.

If you cant spit it out in english then do it in french so it is at least understandable.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Athens

If you can't spit it out in English then do it in French so it is at least understandable.

Fixed.

[Athens]

Originally Posted by Doofy

Fixed.

I didnt say anything about words being spelled correct, just readable

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Athens

I didnt say anything about words being spelled correct, just readable

I understood her perfectly.

[red rocket]

Originally Posted by TETENAL

http://service.spiegel.de/cache/inte...428245,00.html

Read this opinion. It will change your mind.

Since I'm also of the opinion that Israel's unjustifiably escalating the situation, and have read the article you linked to, I'll point out a few things:

1. Küntzel is strongly biased in favour of Israel. He likens Islam to Nazism. While that doesn't necessarily mean he can't be taken seriously, it makes me wonder about his motivations.

DR. MATTHIAS KUENTZEL, associate researcher of the Vidal Sassoon International Center for the Study of Anti-Semitism at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem, is a political scientist and author and lives in Hamburg. His most recent book, Djihad und Judenhass. Über den neuen antijüdischen Krieg (Jihad and Jew-Hatred: About the New Anti-Jewish War) was published in 2002.

http://www.jcpa.org/phas/phas-kuntzel-s05.htm

2. He's asserting that 'the Islamist creed calls for the "World of Arrogance" to also submit to the Sharia, meaning this genocidal wave of hate should ultimately spread across the globe,' that Jews are merely the first target, after which the Jihadists will attack the whole West.

Can that be right? Some indicators say YES, like the treatment of Yezidis in Turkey, a country that wants EU membership. Should they get it? I've thought about it, and the answer is NEVER. And Turkey is comparatively moderate and secular.

Interesting line of thought. If I follow it not too much further, I'll have to decide whether I want to live in a world controlled by Muslim Nazis, or whether I should support wiping them out first.

Alternatively, I could decide that Küntzel is an anti-Islamic fear-mongerer and liar.
Think I'll go with that.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by red rocket

Alternatively, I could decide that Küntzel is an anti-Islamic fear-mongerer and liar.
Think I'll go with that.

BZZZZT!! Try again.

Excluding the Nazi types, there's a reason why anti-islamic folks are usually only anti-islamic and not also anti-Sikh, anti-Buddhist, anti-Hindu. Ever wondered what that reason is?

[Taliesin]

Originally Posted by Doofy

BZZZZT!! Try again.

Excluding the Nazi types, there's a reason why anti-islamic folks are usually only anti-islamic and not also anti-Sikh, anti-Buddhist, anti-Hindu. Ever wondered what that reason is?

I can't follow you, I know quite a few anti-islamic folks who happen to be hindus, and they are also anti-christian, and I know quite a few anti-islamic folks, who happen to be racists, and they are anti-jewish, too, and I know quite a few anti-islamic folks who happen to be radical christians, and they are anti-everything that is not their version of christianity.

Taliesin

[Powerbook]

Originally Posted by vmarks

...

At first, the Mandatory government denied having received a telephone warning, but testimony submitted to the interrogating judge made it clear beyond a doubt that such a warning had in fact been given. Moreover, the Palestine Post telephone operator attested on oath to the police that, immediately after receiving the telephone message, she had telephoned the duty officer at the police station. The French Consulate staff opened their windows as they had been told to by the anonymous woman who telephoned them, and this was further evidence of the warning.

At the request of the Haganah, the Irgun issued a leaflet accepting responsibility for the operation. It stated, among other things:
The telephone warnings were given at 12:10-12:15. And if it is true, as the British liars have announced, that the explosion occurred at 12:37, they still had 22 minutes at their disposal in order to evacuate the building of its residents and workers.
Therefore responsibility for loss of life among civilians rests solely with them.

What group of terrorists in this modern world ever gives advance notice to people who could be harmed? None. Yet Israelis today leaflet Lebanon in warning, and in 1946 and 1947 used leaflets, phone calls, and bullhorns to announce themselves and make clear a way to safety. So much for being terrorists.

I have to say I'm disappointed with that answer. Blowing up a building is and remains terrorism. It's no different if a building is blown up by Israelis, Arabs or Eskimos.
The phone call before is no better like a nice hat on an ugly whore.


Regards
Powerbook

[Nicko]

Originally Posted by Doofy

BZZZZT!! Try again.

Excluding the Nazi types, there's a reason why anti-islamic folks are usually only anti-islamic and not also anti-Sikh, anti-Buddhist, anti-Hindu. Ever wondered what that reason is?

Ok I'll bite, what exactly are you talking about anyway? Who is ONLY anti-islamic as you put it? That doesn't exactly make alot of sense.

[Sky Captain]

From the news this morning.

"We cannot stand by and watch out Hezbollah brothers fight alone," said Komeil Baradaran, a 21-year-old Basiji member. "If we are to die in Lebanon, then we will go to heaven. It is our duty as Muslims to fight."

Duty as a Muslim to fight?
This fella is obviously misguided?

[Kevin]

He has been taught that Sky. Poor kid. :/

In the end, the people who taught this to the kid will be responsible for such things.

[Nicko]

Originally Posted by Sky Captain

From the news this morning.



Duty as a Muslim to fight?
This fella is obviously misguided?

Well, Israel has bombed their homes, destroyed their economy and schools. What else does he have to do in the day than defend his home from foreign invaders?

[TETENAL]

Originally Posted by red rocket

1. Küntzel is strongly biased in favour of Israel. He likens Islam to Nazism.

No he doesn't. "Nazi" is not once in that article.

[Troll]

Yesterday, more rockets hit Israel than on any other day since the conflict started. Yesterday also marked the biggest loss for the Israeli Army in a single day since the 1967 war. Civilian casualties up around 600, 4 UN observers dead overnight.

Hezbollah seems a harder nut to crack than the Iraqi Army.

[Sky Captain]

Originally Posted by Nicko

Well, Israel has bombed their homes, destroyed their economy and schools. What else does he have to do in the day than defend his home from foreign invaders?

No, they're Iranians.

[SSharon]

Originally Posted by Troll

Yesterday, more rockets hit Israel than on any other day since the conflict started. Yesterday also marked the biggest loss for the Israeli Army in a single day since the 1967 war. Civilian casualties up around 600, 4 UN observers dead overnight.

Hezbollah seems a harder nut to crack than the Iraqi Army.

So if Israel just stopped attacking and they had a strong government the problem would go away?
I just don't think so.

I support the death penalty, but that doesn't mean I want people to die on either side. If there was a way to arrest everyone who had fired a rocket I would be in favor of that, but it just won't happen that way.

[itai195]

Originally Posted by Troll

Hezbollah seems a harder nut to crack than the Iraqi Army.

Is that really surprising? The territory in Southern Lebanon is rather 'difficult' for an invading force to occupy, and Hezbollah has been preparing for a conflict like this for 6 years.

[Troll]

Originally Posted by itai195

Is that really surprising? The territory in Southern Lebanon is rather 'difficult' for an invading force to occupy, and Hezbollah has been preparing for a conflict like this for 6 years.

I think it's surprising. They're a guerilla force and the Iraqi Army was, you know, an Army. This is purely an observation. I just find it amazing that Hezbollah wasn't wiped out in a week.

[yakkiebah]

Originally Posted by Troll

I think it's surprising. They're a guerilla force and the Iraqi Army was, you know, an Army. This is purely an observation. I just find it amazing that Hezbollah wasn't wiped out in a week.

That's because you thought it was just some group of thugs hiding somewhere in Lebanon.

Edit: I think Hezbollah would be wiped out in a week if they actually dressed like an army and fought the war in the "open".

Yeah really amazing.

[vmarks]

Originally Posted by Troll

I think it's surprising. They're a guerilla force and the Iraqi Army was, you know, an Army. This is purely an observation. I just find it amazing that Hezbollah wasn't wiped out in a week.

Because HizbAllah is not a guerilla force. They're an army. They have a tight partnership with the Lebanese army.

http://www.lebarmy.gov.lb/?ln=en

They train in organized groups with specialities (artillary, infantry, etc.)

They get training and assistance from the Iranian Revolutionary Guard.

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/nation...s_Backers.html

They have a uniform and sometimes even wear it while fighting, as an army normally would.