[bonniescotland]

The last 2 macs I bought I had the store firstly upgrade some specs on them, anyway once they were delivered to me I found that they had already set up my name in the computer, with my address and I was set up as an admin account. They had also put in a password for me (which I later changed).

I didn't actually want any of my personal details on these computers or have user accounts or a password and was quite annoyed that the store did this without my permission or knowledge. I've had to delete my details in the address book and also attempted to delete the admin account so that I don't have a user id or password, but it won't allow me to delete.

I wondered do all macs have to have a user account and password these days to work? Yes I know there might be security reasons for people to have passwords, but if you don't want one it's a hassle.

Also I have accepted now that I will have to always login with a password, but I do not want my personal details on the computer, as one of these I am about to give away, so I tried to change the admin account to another name and it allows me to change the name and password but not the short name. It's really annoying.
Not only that but I have no idea even if I do manage to change this whether my name & address are lurking somewhere else in the mac that I don't know about.

Is it possible for the stores not to put your name on the computer, or is this some kind of legal requirement that they are following or are they just doing it to p***s me off?

And does the mac have to have a user name and password to work?

[Cold Warrior]

Yes, it has to have an account, a user name and a password. If you don't like your current account w/ its details, boot from the OS X restore DVD, wipe the drive and reinstall the system, but give it a non-identifying login name w/ fictional registration credentials if you want.

[Art Vandelay]

Originally Posted by Cold Warrior 

Yes, it has to have an account, a user name and a password. ... w/ fictional registration credentials if you want.

The password can be blank. Also, the registration section can be skipped entirely.

[Art Vandelay]

Actually, an even better thing to do is quit the setup assistant immediately. Then the new owner will be able to set it up themselves with the info they want.

[TETENAL]

Macs need at least one admin account, so to delete your current account, you first need to create a new one. You can turn on auto-log-in to an account so you don't have to enter the password when you start up your computer. An empty password is a bad idea.

Stores don't enter customer information into computers. If they did, who knows what else they have done to your system. I would follow Cold Warrior's advice and boot from the restore DVD, format the drive and reinstall the system.

[bonniescotland]

Thanks to both of you, though interestingly one of you says it has to have an account/password the other person says no.

Well the next time I get a computer I'll wipe the drive and restore the OS X before I do anything else. Unfortunately now I have loads of software on it so don't want to risk that. The computer is going to a family member and we have a family license for the software so I don't want to erase it, but it just would be good to have their name (or no name!) rather than my own on the shortname, because once it goes to them I don't want to have to remember at some future point (e.g. in 2 years time when they want to sell it) to tell them to remove my name.

I'm gathering that if I've deleted the address book the only other area where my personal details will be is in the admin account name?

The other reason the whole user id annoys me is that there is a folder in the HD that says my name, when I click on it it has movies, apps etc, but there is also the general apps, movies type folder, so I'm always confused as to whether these folders are duplicates or not? Sometimes I find my stuff in my user folder (e.g. user folder movies) and sometimes I find it in the other generic movies folder. Unless there is more than one user using a computer, having these folders duplicated is a real pain.

I much prefer just saving everything to a folder on the desktop rather than the HD folder, that way I can easily backitup without it being mixed in with HD system folders etc. The problem though is that often I saved something (such as an FCP project) to my desktop folder but then the media files would just end up all over the HD. I've since realised that I had to change some of the settings in FCP to get the media files to go where I wanted them to (e.g. my desktop folder), but there may still be files all over the HD so I've been painstakingly looking through every folder on my HD to see if there are old files lurking there. If seems as if the mac just defaults to whatever user account or HD folder it thinks you should save something to (particularly media type files) rather than the PC which always ask you where you want to save stuff.

[Cold Warrior]

It must have an account but I guess like Art said it can have a password that is blank, which equals no password, although I don't know if one would still get a password prompt for certain actions (e.g., installers) if the password is blank.

[bonniescotland]

Hi Tetenal, thanks for your advice, but I did try and create a new admin account but all it would do is create a new user account, it wouldn't allow me to make it an admin, and therefore I couldn't delete the original admin account, but I'm not in front of the mac right now so maybe I'll try it again later.

Interesting you can log in without a password, I remember ages ago trying to do that and I couldn't figure it out don't remember what I tried now, but I just couldn't figure out how to auto log in but I'll try it again.

Re the customer info into my computer. It's happened on 2 occassions at 2 separate stores because I got them to upgrade the hard drive for me then they delivered the computer to me, I wasn't just buying a computer in a box that day, so I'm guessing that's why they did it. The first time it happened I was annoyed, by the time I got the second computer I forgot to tell them not to do it, but in any case they shouldn't have done it without my permission. I am in Australia so perhaps they do thinks differently here, but I'm assuming that if I just bought the computer that day off their shelf I wouldn't have had this problem.

[bonniescotland]

In retrospect I can see that it probably is a good idea to have a password, I'm just annoyed that the store made the assumption that I wanted one. And also very annoyed they put all my personal details in it, particularly as I'm having troubles changing the admim account shortname. Actually the other funny thing was that when I got the computer I had to guess what the password was so I just assumed they used my name and was correct! (I changed it later)

Anyway will try out the advice given to me here, thanks all.

[Art Vandelay]

Originally Posted by Cold Warrior 

It must have an account but I guess like Art said it can have a password that is blank, which equals no password, although I don't know if one would still get a password prompt for certain actions (e.g., installers) if the password is blank.

You'll still be prompted for your password, whether it's blank or not.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by bonniescotland 

In retrospect I can see that it probably is a good idea to have a password, I'm just annoyed that the store made the assumption that I wanted one. And also very annoyed they put all my personal details in it, particularly as I'm having troubles changing the admim account shortname. Actually the other funny thing was that when I got the computer I had to guess what the password was so I just assumed they used my name and was correct! (I changed it later)

Anyway will try out the advice given to me here, thanks all.

The reason your computer has a password is for security reasons. If software tries to access sensitive data on your computer, it has to have the password to get through.

It's to keep the viruses out.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally Posted by bonniescotland 

Thanks to both of you, though interestingly one of you says it has to have an account/password the other person says no.

Nobody said that you didn't need an account.

You wouldn't be able to use the machine if you didn't have an account. Kind of hard for the system to interact with somebody who doesn't exist.

[OreoCookie]

Originally Posted by bonniescotland 

In retrospect I can see that it probably is a good idea to have a password, I'm just annoyed that the store made the assumption that I wanted one. And also very annoyed they put all my personal details in it, particularly as I'm having troubles changing the admim account shortname.

Why are you having trouble to change the short name, it's very simply actually if you are using 10.5: go to the Sys Prefs > Users. Right-click the user whose short name you want to have changed and select Advanced. Change the short name (avoid spaces and special characters). Follow the instructions on screen.

[red rocket]

Originally Posted by bonniescotland

Well the next time I get a computer I'll wipe the drive and restore the OS X before I do anything else. Unfortunately now I have loads of software on it so don't want to risk that.

To avoid that dilemma in the future, you should partition your next computer’s hard drive before you do anything else. That way, you can keep all your third party apps and data separate from the system, and if anything ever goes wrong, you can simply reinstall OS X without risking any data loss.

[OreoCookie]

Why put them on a separate partition? I have a whole bunch of apps in a local apps folder in my user directory. That way it is automatically backed up with my user data.

[TETENAL]

You can archive & install the system without losing any data. There is no need to partition your hard drive. I would advice against it (unless you want to run multiple operating systems when of course you have to).

[Hal Itosis]

Originally Posted by Art Vandelay 

The password can be blank.

Is it still possible for admin accounts to be password-less?
[thought I heard Leopard finally clamped down on that.]

[Art Vandelay]

Yes, even on Leopard.

[CharlesS]

Just boot from the DVD and erase the hard drive. Then reinstall OS X and set the account up however you want.

[red rocket]

Originally Posted by OreoCookie

Why put them on a separate partition? I have a whole bunch of apps in a local apps folder in my user directory. That way it is automatically backed up with my user data.

Say you have messed around so much with your OS X installation that you start to experience problems. You try to repair the drive with DiskWarrior, but it still isn’t working right, so you reluctantly decide to re-install OS X.

The installer balks at doing an archive & install, because there isn’t enough free space. You haven’t got any recent enough or complete enough backups.

If you have an unpartitioned drive, you are now screwed.

If, on the other hand, you have kept OS X on one partition, and all your Users, Third Party Apps and Data folders on another one, you can just do a clean erase and install, re-link the old Users folder to OS X in netinfo, and you can go straight back to work without any worries.

Seriously, I think Apple should put Users and Shared Apps folders on separate partitions from OS X by default. Or separate drives, even, if more than one is installed.

[Spheric Harlot]

That's a whole bunch of ifs.

IF you messed up your system to the point where a complete nuke and pave is necessary - that takes real effort.

IF you haven't enough space for an Archive & Install - the likelihood of this happening INCREASES tremendously when you partition your drive, since system partitions invariably end up being too small at some point, and you can't just clear up space by offloading data (as that's most likely on a different partition).

IF you haven't got any recent enough or complete enough backups - this just means you're a complete idiot, ESPECIALLY if you're messing around with your system. Bad luck notwithstanding, of course, but as unlikely as the simultaneous failure of your backup drive is, it really doesn't warrant the stress of partioning and maintaining them.



When I still used partitions, I spent WAY more time shifting stuff around and repartitioning than those partitions ever saved me.

[CharlesS]

Originally Posted by red rocket 

The installer balks at doing an archive & install, because there isn’t enough free space.

Letting your hard drive get that full is generally a terrible thing to do to an OS X installation anyway (and very likely to be a contributing factor to its getting messed up in the first place). And if you have partitioned the drive, this is likely to be a contributing factor to the boot partition having gotten that full.

You haven’t got any recent enough or complete enough backups.

This, also, is a terrible idea, for obvious reasons.

If you have an unpartitioned drive, you are now screwed.

No you're not - just back up the drive like you should have already done anyway, and then nuke and pave.

If, on the other hand, you have kept OS X on one partition, and all your Users, Third Party Apps and Data folders on another one, you can just do a clean erase and install, re-link the old Users folder to OS X in netinfo, and you can go straight back to work without any worries.

OS X hasn't used NetInfo for years.

edit: beaten by spheric. oh well

[Spheric Harlot]

Only in part.

This is an excellent point that I failed to make:

Originally Posted by CharlesS 

Letting your hard drive get that full is generally a terrible thing to do to an OS X installation anyway (and very likely to be a contributing factor to its getting messed up in the first place).

[red rocket]

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot

When I still used partitions, I spent WAY more time shifting stuff around and repartitioning than those partitions ever saved me.

That would only occur if you haven’t allocated sufficient space in the first place.

The way I have set it up, OS X takes up a third of my ‘System’ partition, all my apps and user data take up a quarter of their own partition, and my swap partition is about five times as large as I ever get in terms of swapfiles.

No need to repartition or shuffle stuff around, at all.

Originally Posted by CharlesS

Just back up the drive like you should have already done anyway, and then nuke and pave.

Assume the worst case scenario. Assume you are unable to back up your data, the system doesn’t start up properly.

OS X hasn't used NetInfo for years.

I didn’t know that, because I haven’t upgraded to Leopard. Am I correct in assuming it is still straightforward enough to set up users on other partitions or drives? Because if it is, my point (‘it’s easy to do’) still stands, irrespective of whether it’s specified to a netinfo database or a dslocal plist.

At least, if you isolate your important data from the system, you haven’t got all your eggs in one basket. At this moment, I fail to see how that is a bad thing in itself, it makes restoring the system a breeze.

[OreoCookie]

Originally Posted by red rocket 

If you have an unpartitioned drive, you are now screwed.

Nope, I'm not screwed. I pop in the install DVD, format my internal harddrive and restore from my Time Machine drive. (Keep in mind that you can restore to points earlier in time, if necessary.) Or, alternatively, I can only migrate my user directory and my applications if I want a clean re-install.

Partitioning is absolutely pointless for what you have in mind.

Originally Posted by red rocket 

If, on the other hand, you have kept OS X on one partition, and all your Users, Third Party Apps and Data folders on another one, you can just do a clean erase and install, re-link the old Users folder to OS X in netinfo, and you can go straight back to work without any worries.

This actually sounds like more work than restoring from my Time Machine backup. I don't need to re-link, other than starting the restore and getting a cup of coffee, cleaning my house or meeting friends while the data is copied, I don't need to do anything.

Originally Posted by red rocket 

Assume the worst case scenario. Assume you are unable to back up your data, the system doesn’t start up properly.

Then I use the latest working backup.

[red rocket]

Oreo, you’re depending on a Time Machine drive. I am assuming the OP only has one drive and no backups. He plans to do the following:

Originally Posted by bonniescotland

Well the next time I get a computer I'll wipe the drive and restore the OS X before I do anything else. Unfortunately now I have loads of software on it so don't want to risk that.

The reason he’s not doing it now is because he doesn’t want to risk losing data and apps. If his hard drive were partitioned the way I described it, he could just wipe the OS X partition and not worry about it. That’s hardly pointless, it’s preparing the drive for worry-free erases and system re-installs.

[OreoCookie]

You should always have a backup. Partitioning doesn't change that (nothing prevents data corruption on your second partition, does it?).

The only time your solution would make a difference is when you cannot archive & install and you'd have no backups.

[red rocket]

Of course you should have a backup. Not every one does. Even if they do have a backup, unless they are constantly writing it in real time, it possibly won’t be current enough for their needs.

What partitioning changes is that if your startup disc becomes unbootable for some reason, it doesn’t matter to your original data and applications, they’ll just sit there safe and untouched on their own partition(s) until the OS has been restored.

I view it as a failsafe mechanism.

[Simon]

Originally Posted by red rocket 

What partitioning changes is that if your startup disc becomes unbootable for some reason, it doesn’t matter to your original data and applications, they’ll just sit there safe and untouched on their own partition(s) until the OS has been restored.

This makes no sense to me.

You have to screw up really bad for OS X to become unbootable. Even in the event that it does, you just boot from the install DVD or from your latest clone backup and repair the damage if you can. Otherwise do an update install. Your apps and data are entirely unaffected. If your apps and data are corrupted then you're likely looking at disk issues anyway in which case you need a backup as well. If you migrate to a new Mac you either update install over a clone of your previous drive or you use MA.

In all these cases all you need is a good backup. Having an up-to-date Time Machine backup with version history plus an independent and recent clone should be sufficient. In no way do I see partitioning as any help with the way OS X works today. Upgrading and migrating have been made trivial. Disk corruption through software has become very rare. What remains is hardware failure in which case partitioning does not help. IMHO partitioning is outdated advice on Macs and actually leads to more problems (running out of space, repartitioning, etc.) than it does good.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally Posted by red rocket 

The reason he’s not doing it now is because he doesn’t want to risk losing data and apps. If his hard drive were partitioned the way I described it, he could just wipe the OS X partition and not worry about it. That’s hardly pointless, it’s preparing the drive for worry-free erases and system re-installs.

That's why God made the Archive and Install option.

Welcome to 2003.

[red rocket]

Hmm, I suppose I do have a bit of a dinosaur mentality in this regard.

So partitioning is outdated?

I guess having more than one drive is therefore outdated, as well?

Ideally, I would like to have at least seven separate drives in a desktop computer: one for the active OS X installation, one for each additional OS, one for swapfiles, one for data, one for third party apps, two for backups. It may sound extreme, but the way I look at it, this sort of approach is prudent if you aim to be able to recover as fast and as fully as possible from potential failures.

What if Time Machine fails you?

[OreoCookie]

Then at least I still have two to three other harddrives that contains my data:
(1) An offsite backup which gets updated about once a month (it's at my parents' place).
(2) I use Mozy to back up my work-related data (mostly TeX files and pdfs).
(3) I have a second external harddrive with yet another Aperture vault.
I used to back up onto my university's dedicated backup servers, too, but the software I had to use was simply hideous.

I used to advocate partitioning when I was still using Windows (which did not have an Archive & Install feature at that time). Plus, I didn't do backups like I do now.

The only time I needed my backups so far was when my harddrives failed (happend twice, one of those times was my fault, I dropped my iBook). Partitioning doesn't help you at all here, if the harddrive fails. If you have data corruption, then it doesn't help you if the corruption occurs on the data partition (not quite unlikely since this is where most of the writes will go to).

These days, partitioning is usually only used if you want to install several operating systems onto your computer.

Also, regarding your seven-harddrive scenario, it doesn't actually increase the security per-se, the risk of hardware failure alone is about seven times as high as that of a single drive. Not sure if that's what I call prudent. In other words: compartmentalizing won't help you nearly as much as redundancy.

[CharlesS]

Originally Posted by red rocket 

Assume the worst case scenario. Assume you are unable to back up your data, the system doesn’t start up properly.

Fine. The worst-case scenario is that your hard drive is so badly messed up that the partition map is hosed, and your data partition is just as screwed up as the main partition. Hell, maybe the drive has suffered a physical failure and has stopped working completely. Shoulda made a backup.

Of course you should have a backup. Not every one does. Even if they do have a backup, unless they are constantly writing it in real time, it possibly won’t be current enough for their needs.

Not everyone has a backup? Even fewer of them have partitioned their drive and hassled around with linking things up (I'm not even sure how you do it on Leopard). If you're going to expend effort ahead of time for a preventive measure against data loss, then for God's sake, make a backup. It's far more effective than partitioning your drive.

And if you use Time Machine, then you are constantly updating the backup in real time (once an hour, close enough).

[thechidz]

the short answer is yes, but you can set it up to logon automatically every time

[Simon]

Originally Posted by red rocket 

What if Time Machine fails you?

That's why in addition to TM you should do regular clones. If you have several large enough partitions or separate physical disks you can actually rotate clones to have an entire clone history. If you store these clones at another place you also have extra redundancy in case of fires, etc.

Disk Utility > Restore is free and reliable. It makes bootable perfect clones. It's available on every OS X install and even on the OS X installer disk.

[red rocket]

I have to say, the one thing that would really give me peace of mind is the ability to simultaneously autosave every project including temporary caches to more than one disc. Is this doable somehow?

[thechidz]

Originally Posted by red rocket 

I have to say, the one thing that would really give me peace of mind is the ability to simultaneously autosave every project including temporary caches to more than one disc. Is this doable somehow?

well I think you would have to have to hdd's hooked up at all times?

[OreoCookie]

Originally Posted by red rocket 

I have to say, the one thing that would really give me peace of mind is the ability to simultaneously autosave every project including temporary caches to more than one disc. Is this doable somehow?

You can use a RAID1 to mirror drives.

[Simon]

Or use a set of RAID1s as a TM backup. That way you have hourly backups of all project changes, version history, and redundancy in case of disk failure.

I'd still do regular clones on top of that. If the RAID controller fails you could end up losing the content of both disks. And the clones could be stored remotely protecting you in case of fire, etc.

[bonniescotland]

thanks to everyone for their hints, I downloaded shortname app and that worked a treat, my shortname and the other details all now changed. Handy to know that I can auto login etc if I want to though too, and all the other great hints I got, thanks