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TheSpaz · Apr 26, 2004, 05:32 PM

I just noticed how many themes are being released now-a-days. It just suddenly hit me. It was never like this before. Thanks to ShapeShifter, we can all be happy and it's always improving. Also, thanks to great sites like MacThemes.net and MacNN Forums, we can see it all happen. Keep the themes coming guys, you're doing a great job.

Makki · Apr 26, 2004, 06:13 PM

Ditto! Ditto! Ditto! Ditto! Ditto!

a holck · Apr 26, 2004, 06:53 PM

Shouldn't that be a big: "thak you jason"

dru · Apr 26, 2004, 07:24 PM

Oh wonderful. Another SS lovefest.

Now all we need is to slag Carp-whatever and the FUD/PR fluff will be complete.

Sorry, this thread reminds me of the days when Microsoft would pay "users" to haunt Usenet and write letters to magazines touting their products and slamming competitors.

Get back to me when I can try SS out again without having to pay first. Sorry, I tried 1.0. Get back to me when themes support .DLTA for themes that don't require SS 'features'.

So, no, everyone is *not* happy.

NetworkShadow · Apr 26, 2004, 07:42 PM

Originally posted by dru:
Oh wonderful. Another SS lovefest.

Now all we need is to slag Carp-whatever and the FUD/PR fluff will be complete.

Sorry, this thread reminds me of the days when Microsoft would pay "users" to haunt Usenet and write letters to magazines touting their products and slamming competitors.

Get back to me when I can try SS out again without having to pay first. Sorry, I tried 1.0. Get back to me when themes support .DLTA for themes that don't require SS 'features'.

So, no, everyone is *not* happy.

So what if we love SS? SS is the only reason there are so many themes today.

Blame it on Panther, SS was released to overcome the limitations of resource swapping themeing with Panther, aka grayscale only metal window textures and not having the ability to universally change text color, (dark themes were way out of the question though a few creatively designed dark themes like TuXedo were designed to allow light colored buttons etc so black text could be seen) just to name two of the biggest limits, and then there was also the safety issue with tampering with system resources. You can thank SS for there even being themes anymore, I remember most of the main themers talking about quitting themeing thanks to Panther.

Before you go bitching about SS being a monopoly and all that crap, remember why it was adopted in the first place and why themers like it. .dlta is dead for a good reason, no sense crying over it.

Fonzie · Apr 26, 2004, 08:33 PM

what does DLTA stand for anyway? Don't Let Theming (get to your) A** ?

olorin15 · Apr 26, 2004, 08:34 PM

Originally posted by dru:
Oh wonderful. Another SS lovefest.

Get back to me when I can try SS out again without having to pay first. Sorry, I tried 1.0. Get back to me when themes support .DLTA for themes that don't require SS 'features'.

So, no, everyone is *not* happy.

Dude, if you do not want SS features, don't use it. Stick to TP with .dlta themes ... No one's going to get back to you with anything. SS is not going to be free and it's not goign to support .dlta ever. Sorry.

deej5871 · Apr 26, 2004, 09:38 PM

Originally posted by dru:
Oh wonderful. Another SS lovefest.

Now all we need is to slag Carp-whatever and the FUD/PR fluff will be complete.

Sorry, this thread reminds me of the days when Microsoft would pay "users" to haunt Usenet and write letters to magazines touting their products and slamming competitors.

Get back to me when I can try SS out again without having to pay first. Sorry, I tried 1.0. Get back to me when themes support .DLTA for themes that don't require SS 'features'.

So, no, everyone is *not* happy.

Even though I think dru here is wrong about SS, I do agree that I am sick of seeing all you people in love with SS. I know, it has revolutionized theming and I'm grateful for it, but I think that everyone knows what ShapeShifter does and how great it is and we don't need to go making threads about it..

. It seems like every other day I see people saying "SS is great, there will never be anything else.", and while I agree that SS is great and should be embraced, I'm sick and tired of hearing about it..

No offense intended Spaz

.

fireside · Apr 26, 2004, 09:55 PM

Originally posted by NetworkShadow:
So what if we love SS? SS is the only reason there are so many themes today.

Blame it on Panther, SS was released to overcome the limitations of resource swapping themeing with Panther, aka grayscale only metal window textures and not having the ability to universally change text color, (dark themes were way out of the question though a few creatively designed dark themes like TuXedo were designed to allow light colored buttons etc so black text could be seen) just to name two of the biggest limits, and then there was also the safety issue with tampering with system resources. You can thank SS for there even being themes anymore, I remember most of the main themers talking about quitting themeing thanks to Panther.

bullsh�t. the only thing guiKit does that dlta doesnt currently do is changing text colors. thats it. i can apply a dlta theme right now that was made for panther and it will change the finder window.

while i like ShapeShifter, and do enjoy themes, i dont like everyone saying its the only reason there are so many themes out there. has shapeshifter made theme making easier? no. has it "revolutionized" the way themes are applied? yes, and thats about it. ShapeShifter is like a new form of media for art to be applied to. it doesnt make the painting any easier, it just makes it look better. thats all ShapeShifter does. it takes the graphics you made with ThemePark (the real reason why there are so many themes) and applies it over apple's gui. thats it.

im so sick and tired of everyone praising ShapeShifter like its the second coming of christ. it hasnt done anything for themeing besides letting you use a different color font, but everyone is saying its revolutionary. the way it applies themes is revolutionary, but it doesn't knock on people's houses and tell them to make more themes.

we should all be celebrating ThemePark, not ShapeShifter. ThemePark is where the magic is made, not ShapeShifter.

swiz · Apr 26, 2004, 10:02 PM

Originally posted by Fonzie:
what does DLTA stand for anyway? Don't Let Theming (get to your) A** ?

Dynamic Link Theme Archive

Frisbee · Apr 26, 2004, 10:12 PM

Originally posted by fireside:
we should all be celebrating ThemePark, not ShapeShifter. ThemePark is where the magic is made, not ShapeShifter.

Amen.... I never even dreamed of theming until Jason rid us of transparency masks. And now, well, there's my sig.

Holigen · Apr 26, 2004, 10:25 PM

Swiz was right before he left. People here just go around looking to start arguments about stuff...

NetworkShadow · Apr 26, 2004, 11:06 PM

Originally posted by fireside:
we should all be celebrating ThemePark, not ShapeShifter. ThemePark is where the magic is made, not ShapeShifter.

I don't understand your stand point though, SS is needed to overcome the limits of the OS and with SS comes guiKit. It's just another format to me, it's used with SS and just happens to be a lot smaller than .dlta for one.
Agreed that ThemePark is the base of the whole themeing community, but without SS and .guiKit there would be very few themes worth using now. Anyone remember ThemeChanger on Panther? The two didn't mix, go and export some Panther .tpark file to .dlta and apply it in ThemeChanger, anything with colored text or colored metal is going to look like crap.
I don't understand why it's such a bad thing to say SS is the greatest thing to happen to themes since ThemePark? .guiKit just comes with SS, no sense in complaining about it... I don't see why .dlta was any better.

Does anyone understand why everyone is going off on guiKit? And why is saying SS is the best thing to happen to themeing since themepark a bad thing? It's not like people are making fan sites and "we love SS sigs"!!! One little topic saying it's cool there are so many themes is a bad thing?!?!!

Holigen · Apr 26, 2004, 11:39 PM

Just to add to NS's comments, what do you care if someone likes SS and openly says so on a Mac GUI Customization forum. It just so happens that most themes coming out right now run on SS. Im sure a lot of people like the fact that they dont have to open up a few applications in order to get their whole system looking good (app skins). .dlta never had anything close to becoming this cool. It may seem like a bad thing that SS costs money, but WindowBlinds and Kaleidascope require registration, so its no new thing. In addition, people who own Macs, generally arent the type to be conservative with their cash. That may be too much of a generalization, but relative to PC prices, Id say its pretty close

deej5871 · Apr 26, 2004, 11:49 PM

Originally posted by NetworkShadow:
Does anyone understand why everyone is going off on guiKit? And why is saying SS is the best thing to happen to themeing since themepark a bad thing? It's not like people are making fan sites and "we love SS sigs"!!! One little topic saying it's cool there are so many themes is a bad thing?!?!!

Sure, this is the only topic devoted to praising ShapeShifter, but it seems to me that many other threads get turned into ShapeShifter praise. Any thread that even mentions Carpe whatever it is gets turned into "it won't work, Shapeshifter is the the best". Anytime someone discusses the possibility of making guikits open they get "why? just use shapeshifter, there isn't anything else and there never will be" (even though I see how opening guikits relates to SS, but even so..). Anytime someone mentions that they actually still use ThemeChanger and DLTA's it turns into "why do you use those old things, they don't have the capabilities of shapeshifter".

Case and point: Thread about Carpe
Opening guikits

Maybe these weren't exactly as I described, but you all know what I'm talking about. All the stuff I mentioned essentially was said in the "Whatever happened to..." thread.

I'm not necessarily saying all this praise is a bad thing, it's just kinda getting on my nerves and you guy's seem very closed-minded.

Holigen · Apr 27, 2004, 12:02 AM

The only reason I am close minded now is because ThemeChanger hosed my Finder a while back and what we all have heard many times about Duality. SS has delivered a small, expanding theme format and since most themers are making themes for it, why not feel like it is the best of its kind (I dont usually use love when referring to a piece of software)? Its the only application out there now that can change app skins, safely theme my system, and open up the themes I like.

NetworkShadow · Apr 27, 2004, 01:23 AM

Originally posted by Holigen:
The only reason I am close minded now is because ThemeChanger hosed my Finder a while back and what we all have heard many times about Duality. SS has delivered a small, expanding theme format and since most themers are making themes for it, why not feel like it is the best of its kind (I dont usually use love when referring to a piece of software)? Its the only application out there now that can change app skins, safely theme my system, and open up the themes I like.

I don't see why anyone should dwell on out dated formats and software, I'm into moving forward for the most part. If something new and cool comes out I'll be one of the first to adopt it. (If I've got the money etc) I was using OS X 10.0 and my friends said it was a beta still and was too rough around the edges to use. I was able to look past that and used it from the day it was out to the day 10.1 was out. I also pre-ordered both Jag and Panther, I like to get the new stuff. I'll likely be as fast to ditch SS as I was to ditch ThemeChanger/.dlta if something new and better (in my opinion) comes along. I'm not pro-SS for no reason, and I'm open to seeing if Xtender can measure up or out due SS but right now SS is what's hot and is only getting better.

Zimphire · Apr 27, 2004, 01:34 AM

Anyone remember Sprocket?

Ozzpot · Apr 27, 2004, 02:32 AM

SS is great. I love SS. In fact, I don't just love it, I am "IN LOVE" with it.

Getting back to TheSpaz's original statement, I too have noticed not only an increase in the number of themes being released, but a massive leap in their quality too. I find it hard to believe sometimes that not everybody uses themes. I would hate to go back to aqua now. Also, how about things like iTunes skins? A year ago all they consisted of was maybe a different grey pattern instead of brushed metal and hue-changed buttons. Looking at the new generation like NEOS, Shinobi and BBX Mercury X, it's amazing to think how far we've come.

Unfortunately it has come to that time of year when the sun comes out and theme releases slow to a crawl.

iNeusch · Apr 27, 2004, 05:09 AM

Originally posted by NetworkShadow:
Before you go bitching about SS being a monopoly and all that crap, remember why it was adopted in the first place and why themers like it. .dlta is dead for a good reason, no sense crying over it.

TheSpaz · Apr 27, 2004, 08:22 AM

I haven't looked at this thread since I posted it... forgot all about it...

Anyways... back on topic. ShapeShifter dosen't just change text colors. It's

1. Safe (doesn't touch any of your valuable System files)
2. Yes, it allows for tons of text color options (think dark themes)
3. Fast (yes, it's pretty fast)
4. App skins (you don't gotta spend time downloading and installing or MAKING your own skins for the Apps you use everyday to get a consistent look)
5. Shadows (fixes the permanent round shadows behind windows so that you can make custom title bar shapes)
6. Colored Finder windows (sorry, but Panther shiped with greyscale Finder windows and there was no way to change this until ShapeShifter)
7. Lots of themes now-a-days (especially for Panther) are made FOR SHAPESHIFTER!
8. guiKit files are very small and easy to download.
9. One click of a button and you can turn the them completely off (every App skin and GUI element is unskinned and is set back to the original Aqua (or whatever DLTA hacks you installed before using ShapeShifter (like my Aqua Extreme DLTA)
10. Jason Rocks!

That's all of the points I can think of right now... anyone got anything else?

TheSpaz · Apr 27, 2004, 08:39 AM

Originally posted by NetworkShadow:
It's not like people are making fan sites and "we love SS sigs"!!!

People aren't doing that? Woops.

swiz · Apr 27, 2004, 08:41 AM

Originally posted by Zimphire:
Anyone remember Sprocket?

Still on my system and I know Max used it exculsively up until ThemePark started really getting savvy.

kwyjiboy · Apr 27, 2004, 09:07 AM

Originally posted by TheSpaz:
I haven't looked at this thread since I posted it... forgot all about it...

Anyways... back on topic. ShapeShifter dosen't just change text colors. It's

1. Safe (doesn't touch any of your valuable System files)
2. Yes, it allows for tons of text color options (think dark themes)
3. Fast (yes, it's pretty fast)
4. App skins (you don't gotta spend time downloading and installing or MAKING your own skins for the Apps you use everyday to get a consistent look)
5. Shadows (fixes the permanent round shadows behind windows so that you can make custom title bar shapes)
6. Colored Finder windows (sorry, but Panther shiped with greyscale Finder windows and there was no way to change this until ShapeShifter)
7. Lots of themes now-a-days (especially for Panther) are made FOR SHAPESHIFTER!
8. guiKit files are very small and easy to download.
9. One click of a button and you can turn the them completely off (every App skin and GUI element is unskinned and is set back to the original Aqua (or whatever DLTA hacks you installed before using ShapeShifter (like my Aqua Extreme DLTA)
10. Jason Rocks!

That's all of the points I can think of right now... anyone got anything else?

That sums up my thoughts. I just think anyone not using it is a freeloading hippy. OH COME ON. It's $20! Lay off the McDonalds for a couple of days and buy something you want. It's easy to save a measely twenty frigging bucks. You get zero sympathy from me.

kwyjiboy · Apr 27, 2004, 09:13 AM

Originally posted by dru:
Oh wonderful. Another SS lovefest.
o, no, everyone is *not* happy.

This should help.

TheSpaz · Apr 27, 2004, 09:31 AM

Haha! Nice image kwyjiboy!

bOOzo · Apr 27, 2004, 10:38 AM

Originally posted by swiz:
Still on my system and I know Max used it exculsively up until ThemePark started really getting savvy.

Yup.. Until I sorted the pxms into categories, then it didn't makes sense scrolling around in sprocket.. Don't know if I have it installed though, don't know why I should

solidfox · Apr 27, 2004, 11:26 AM

Originally posted by TheSpaz:
I haven't looked at this thread since I posted it... forgot all about it...

Anyways... back on topic. ShapeShifter dosen't just change text colors. It's

1. Safe (doesn't touch any of your valuable System files)
2. Yes, it allows for tons of text color options (think dark themes)
3. Fast (yes, it's pretty fast)
4. App skins (you don't gotta spend time downloading and installing or MAKING your own skins for the Apps you use everyday to get a consistent look)
5. Shadows (fixes the permanent round shadows behind windows so that you can make custom title bar shapes)
6. Colored Finder windows (sorry, but Panther shiped with greyscale Finder windows and there was no way to change this until ShapeShifter)
7. Lots of themes now-a-days (especially for Panther) are made FOR SHAPESHIFTER!
8. guiKit files are very small and easy to download.
9. One click of a button and you can turn the them completely off (every App skin and GUI element is unskinned and is set back to the original Aqua (or whatever DLTA hacks you installed before using ShapeShifter (like my Aqua Extreme DLTA)
10. Jason Rocks!

That's all of the points I can think of right now... anyone got anything else?

Oh, there's more,

11. without the ability to use patterns bigger than 8x8 px in cocoa apps we wouldn't have [fear]platinum 2

Also there should be some credit here for Butt O'sigh and the menu enhancer.

dialo · Apr 27, 2004, 07:01 PM

Microsoft Word rocks! Screw that OOo piece of garbage. It can't do half the stuff Word can. Let it die in the dirt where it belongs. Don't complain about the price. Hard work goes into making Word the only word processor worth touching. The only reason those OOo people don't charge is because they are dumb. So suck it up and pay. What, are you poor or just cheap? Well then you must not be as smart as me. Put down the McDonalds.

wibs · Apr 27, 2004, 07:45 PM

kwyjiboy, who exactly are they freeloading off of? No shapeshifter = no themes. I fail to see what they get for free.

themarvelous3 · Apr 27, 2004, 08:04 PM

haha...

this thread has "LOOK AT US! WE ARE THE BIGGEST NERDS IN THE WORLD!!!" written all over it : )

...no offense.

NetworkShadow · Apr 27, 2004, 09:07 PM

lol Love the new sig TheSpaz!

goMac · Apr 27, 2004, 09:51 PM

FYI DLTA's could change most text colors. Xtender currrently only supports DLTA text colors and doesn't yet support text colors from guiKit's, as they aren't stored in guiKit's as part of the Extras.rsrc as they traditionally have been.

a holck · Apr 27, 2004, 10:33 PM

Originally posted by goMac:
__________________
--Colin Cornaby, Carpe Stellarem - http://www.carpestellarem.com.
Xtender: Stop Monkeying Around, Coming Mid April

I really hope Xtender is going to be released at some point, but you should fix that sig....

Link · Apr 27, 2004, 11:24 PM

ROFLMAO!!!!!!oneone!!!

Oh yeah I have to credit PowerMacMan for that great comeback line

He rawks.

This thread has enough zealotry to make me sick.

dialo · 12:50 AM

Originally posted by themarvelous3:
this thread has "LOOK AT US! WE ARE THE BIGGEST NERDS IN THE WORLD!!!" written all over it : )

...no offense.

Real nerds are more than simple consumers.

goMac · Apr 28, 2004, 01:03 AM

Originally posted by NetworkShadow:
lol Love the new sig TheSpaz!

Xtender is actually done right now. We just have other goodness(TM) we want to add.

Link · Apr 28, 2004, 01:06 AM

I can hardly wait to see it!

Hey while you're at it you think you can make up an xtender sig? bwahhaha.

goMac · Apr 28, 2004, 01:27 AM

Hah, maybe.

We're looking at perhaps just releasing the Xtender runtime and SDK without themes or any mods alone within the next week. Theres no point in holding that up for theme specific features, and there are several other people who are working on projects that depend on it.

Theres also a few ideas being thrown around regarding licensing.

Link · Apr 28, 2004, 02:32 AM

How about making it a Development release with something along the lines of having a suggest features link and accepting suggestions? That way when themes hit the board with it you'll have optimizations too

kwyjiboy · Apr 28, 2004, 08:34 AM

Originally posted by wibs:
kwyjiboy, who exactly are they freeloading off of? No shapeshifter = no themes. I fail to see what they get for free.

I was referring to the freeloaders that insist upon sticking with installer-based themes that replace system files, that insist upon releasing DLTA formatted themes because they, for whatever bizarre reason, cannot spare $20 and claim that Shapeshifter stole their theming community. Shapeshifter has made the theming community flourish.

I was referring to the freeloaders that insist upon having a new trial period for Shapeshifter everytime a new version comes out, because they, for whatever bizarre reason, cannot spare $20.

It's $20. What the hell is wrong with you people?!

iNeusch · Apr 28, 2004, 08:58 AM

Originally posted by a holck:
I really hope Xtender is going to be released at some point, but you should fix that sig....

Yeah... doesn't look good.
Sounds like a release with BBX

Link · Apr 28, 2004, 04:30 PM

kwy are you so blindly obsessed with Unsanity that you don't care whether there's NEVER another app that's ever as good, and you'll lie about past apps to make it so?

As far as I'm concerned, SS does the same damn thing Themechanger and duality did, except it changes parts of files instead of swiping the whole thing in and out.

Honestly, I've said a million times, I've NEVER seen a problem with any theme changing app ever - that essentially includes shapeshifter albeit it loved to crash with too many themes installed (duality would hang on the same amount but still load) -- those days are long past me though.

You can sit there and lie, slander people, and make up all the BS you want... even go down to downright harasssing people because they don't want to use an app whose only good side is a giant prettty icon. At one point or another nobody's going to listen to you because your statements are so rediculous so why don't you just stop preaching like some kind of a .. preacher!

You're as odd as a windows zealot -- I mean why brag about something just about everybody uses because there's nothing else to use?

TheSpaz · Apr 28, 2004, 05:24 PM

Originally posted by Link:
kwy are you so blindly obsessed with Unsanity that you don't care whether there's NEVER another app that's ever as good, and you'll lie about past apps to make it so?

As far as I'm concerned, SS does the same damn thing Themechanger and duality did, except it changes parts of files instead of swiping the whole thing in and out.

Honestly, I've said a million times, I've NEVER seen a problem with any theme changing app ever - that essentially includes shapeshifter albeit it loved to crash with too many themes installed (duality would hang on the same amount but still load) -- those days are long past me though.

You can sit there and lie, slander people, and make up all the BS you want... even go down to downright harasssing people because they don't want to use an app whose only good side is a giant prettty icon. At one point or another nobody's going to listen to you because your statements are so rediculous so why don't you just stop preaching like some kind of a .. preacher!

You're as odd as a windows zealot -- I mean why brag about something just about everybody uses because there's nothing else to use?

You my friend are ignorant. Did you not read this thread before posting. ShapeShifter isn't just a big pretty icon and as far as I'm conserned, XTender is only vaporware currently so how good is it to us. The only way people are going to abandon ShapeShifter is if XTender can do what SS can do AND MORE! That's it. So far, most themes are built for ShapeShifter and the fact remains DLTA themes can't do everything that ShapeShifter can do.

It's not the fact that ShapeShifter is the only App out there that does this, it's the fact that it does it WELL and it's always improving. Lemme see a DLTA theme install App skins or change the Finder's brushed metal color. Show me THAT, and I'll say "I'm sorry, you were right, we don't need ShapeShifter, it's just a waste of money"... Okay?

Holigen · Apr 28, 2004, 05:55 PM

Btw, I believe that BBX made that icon... Nice job!

NetworkShadow · Apr 28, 2004, 07:23 PM

TheSpaz

Yup that's a BBX icon, very nice indeed.

Link · Apr 28, 2004, 08:51 PM

Originally posted by TheSpaz:
You my friend are ignorant. Did you not read this thread before posting. ShapeShifter isn't just a big pretty icon and as far as I'm conserned, XTender is only vaporware currently so how good is it to us. The only way people are going to abandon ShapeShifter is if XTender can do what SS can do AND MORE! That's it. So far, most themes are built for ShapeShifter and the fact remains DLTA themes can't do everything that ShapeShifter can do.

It's not the fact that ShapeShifter is the only App out there that does this, it's the fact that it does it WELL and it's always improving. Lemme see a DLTA theme install App skins or change the Finder's brushed metal color. Show me THAT, and I'll say "I'm sorry, you were right, we don't need ShapeShifter, it's just a waste of money"... Okay?

I didn't say you didn't need shapeshifter. Perhaps people with your level of knowledge need to stick with an app that you can understand and that's alright! For the rest of us who are interested in constantly updating stuff based on open standards, perhaps we'd be interested in greater alternatives, that's all.

It doesn't have to be the end all be all, I don't think SS is even suitable for a lot of people and am anxiously awaiting a more flexible app.

COBRAHQ · Apr 28, 2004, 09:14 PM

Originally posted by Link:
I didn't say you didn't need shapeshifter. Perhaps people with your level of knowledge need to stick with an app that you can understand and that's alright! For the rest of us who are interested in constantly updating stuff based on open standards, perhaps we'd be interested in greater alternatives, that's all.

It doesn't have to be the end all be all, I don't think SS is even suitable for a lot of people and am anxiously awaiting a more flexible app.

How is ShapeShifter not 'suitable for a lot of people'?

It works... it's simple... and it does a great job. As for people with his 'level of knowledge', do you even know his intelligence or skills? No? I didn't think so.

Seriously, people just like to bitch and moan about anything. I'm sure if the new theming apps come out, we can then take a look and see if it can top SS. But until then, people are still allowed to enjoy, or better yet, revel in the glory that is SS theming.

If you can produce an app right now that will do everything SS does and more, and give it to me for free then do it. But in the meantime, I payed my meager sum, I use SS, it does a great job (it has NEVER crashed or froze, and runs smoothly)... so I will praise SS, it's definitely well deserved.

So sit back and relax... have a nice cold beverage... take a deep breath... watch some paint dry... do something, just stop trying to be the killjoy. We get enough of that in real life with work... why bring it into your damn themes for your computer... @_@

goMac · Apr 28, 2004, 09:27 PM

I really don't see how Xtender is vaporware. We've had a public beta, and are doing private betas. I don't really know what it will take to prove this to you. I've even been starting to get support emails on Xtender, which would be impossible if it was vaporware.

Please, stop with the Xtender is vaporware nonsense. A lot of hard work is being put into it including a full port of the Xtender engine to C (which, btw, dropped the size of the engine to 20k).

flamingmoe · 06:55 PM

Originally posted by Link:
I didn't say you didn't need shapeshifter. Perhaps people with your level of knowledge need to stick with an app that you can understand and that's alright! For the rest of us who are interested in constantly updating stuff based on open standards, perhaps we'd be interested in greater alternatives, that's all.

It doesn't have to be the end all be all, I don't think SS is even suitable for a lot of people and am anxiously awaiting a more flexible app.

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