[chris v]

Do you believe the theory that god created the universe, the Earth, and all the animals on it, exactly as they are today, in exactly 7 terrestrial days, and that the Earth is approximately 6000 years old?

Or do you believe that the earth is approximately three billion years old, and that life evolved gradually from simpler forms to more complex ones?

[chris v]

NYCFarmboy refused to answer my question in another thread, so I thought I'd throw it open as a poll. Sue me. Choose A or B, no waffling, or vague inuendo.

[DBursey]

In the waning days of their planetary ecological collapse, the technologically advanced Martian overlords send a craft loaded with biologically encoded specimens from their doomed world to the neighboring third planet, where its living cargo was divested in order to seed our newly temperate world.

Oh, and if that's debunked, I'll go with option #2.

[Taliesin]

Off course God created everything, nothing comes out of nothing without a divine force. The question now is, is the theory that earth is merely 6,000 years old, which some christians believed in former times, true? Archeological discoveries and geological measurements hint that the earth might be at least a few millions years old and geologically even billions of years old.

But regardless of how old earth is, God still created it.

I can't understand why people make creation and evolution to opponents, why not evolution ensured and executed by God all the time.

It's even possible to combine the creation of Adam and Eva with evolution if necessary: God took the human body that was perfectioned through evolution, that God himself directed and caused at every step and decided to fill it with a soul and bless/curse it with a free will--> Adam is ready.

But that isn't even necessary to believe at this point of time. Right now, only micro-evolution is proofed sufficiently and only in the realm of insects and animals.

Taliesin

[RAILhead]

Not enough options. I firmly believe God spoke everything into existence, but I don't necessarily believe the earth is a mere 6000 years old. Further, one must remember to add adaptation to the mix. Did we, humans, come from apes? No, not in my world. Have we always looked the way we do now (heights, color, basic structure, etc.)? Of course not -- because we've adapted to our growing environment over thousands of years.

As the saying goes...I believe in the Big Bang: God spoke, and BANG, it was.

Maury

[Shaddim]

Originally posted by Taliesin:
Off course God created everything, nothing comes out of nothing without a divine force. The question now is, is the theory that earth is merely 6,000 years old, which some christians believed in former times, true? Archeological discoveries and geological measurements hint that the earth might be at least a few millions years old and geologically even billions of years old.

But regardless of how old earth is, God still created it.

I can't understand why people make creation and evolution to opponents, why not evolution ensured and executed by God all the time.

Yeah, I agree with you... Take a picture, it it may never happen again.

I'm a Creationist and and Evolutionist (definitely micro, perhaps even macro), the concepts are not mutually exclusive.

[Millennium]

The poll is oversimplified. We need more options.

[chris v]

I'm just trying to flush out the literal Genesis young-earthers.

I'm not omnipotent enough to pass judgement on whether or not the existence of the universe as we know it was intended by intelligent design, so I sort of leave it at that. Science supports an old Earth and evolution, at least to my eyes, but far be it from me to say that these things weren't G*d's idea in the first place. I'm too small and insignificant to ever know that as truth, and I'm a faithless SOB, so I leve the question open, and am content with that.

It does seem pretty obvious to me though that G*d didn't put the dinosaur bones in the ground "to confuse us and test our faith."

[voodoo]

God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God God

[UnixMac]

its actually a little of both.... neither view is correct, nor sanctioned by today's Catholic Church (where I get my spiritual info).

[ebuddy]

I was certain the poll and thread was directed to "oust" the young-earthers from deep within their coves. I appreciated Chris V's honesty in saying as much. Overall, this is a tuffee and I dare say I'm one of probably one on this entire forum that adheres to a more strict interpretation of scripture. I believe in a young earth. I have good information and I've seen much bad information from both sides. It should be noted, that threads like these can go as many as 100 pages with only one common ground found at the end of the day, both require faith. One requires faith in man (primarily), one requires faith in God (enter religion/docrine here). Even then, you have different ideals of what "God" is and how we came to be and the alleged accuracies/inaccuracies of Christian doctrine as well as various other religious doctrine.

I would like to however, suggest that Science may have also become dogmatic in that time becomes God in making the impossible, more possible. This is not an open-invitation for flaming however so please take my statement with a grain of salt. I just ask that the same level of healthy skepticism and scrutiny be applied to the secular as well as the sacred. In short, all are theories. Though some are taught and assumed as fact, they are none the less; theories.

originally posted by Taliesin; It's even possible to combine the creation of Adam and Eva with evolution if necessary: God took the human body that was perfectioned through evolution, that God himself directed and caused at every step and decided to fill it with a soul and bless/curse it with a free will--> Adam is ready.

That's funny Taliesin, I was just conducting a Bible Study in which we came to the conclusion that free-will is as much a curse (while beautifully perfect) as it is a blessing. Very good points yours.

But that isn't even necessary to believe at this point of time. Right now, only micro-evolution is proofed sufficiently and only in the realm of insects and animals.

Man, brother-never before have we been in such agreement. It is refreshing. I agree with almost all of Taliesin's statement and believe it is mistaken to lump the "known" (micro) with the "unknown" macro evolution as one convoluted theory of Evolution. Science and religion did share a compelling history in that many scientists believed that God "designed" this world and that by attaining more information on it's design, we could learn more of the designer, but "Evolution" was the turning point IMHO. It really served and required Darwin to refute Biblical premise and as such, has pitted Creation in opposition to Evolution. I believe this lends itself to a "less important" humanity, but that's certainly debateable.

[Moderator]

I'm not a creation guy but the 6 day case could conceivably be argued if you take relativity into account.

[djohnson]

Originally posted by Moderator:
I'm not a creation guy but the 6 day case could conceivably be argued if you take relativity into account.

That and why should time exist to God?

[chris v]

Originally posted by djohnson:
That and why should time exist to God?

you'd have to ask the guys who wrote Genesis, huh?

Maybe G*d is time.

[Shaddim]

Originally posted by chris v:
Maybe G*d is time.

Very astute. Now, identify "His" other 9 (some say 10) main attributes and the whole picture becomes more defined.

[andi*pandi]

I doubt God had on his Timex.

Never thought that Evolution and Creationism had to be mutually exclusive--why not just say it's all part of God's plan and let it be.

[bamburg dunes]

I believe the Earth sits on top of a large turtle, which gave birth to everything over the course of 8 days around 2000 years ago.

[Shaddim]

Originally posted by bamburg dunes:
I believe the Earth sits on top of a large turtle, which gave birth to everything over the course of 8 days around 2000 years ago.

I've heard worse.

[bamburg dunes]

Originally posted by MacNStein:
I've heard worse.

Me too, Kabbalists, funny bunch they are.

[lil'babykitten]

Originally posted by Taliesin:
Off course God created everything, nothing comes out of nothing without a divine force. The question now is, is the theory that earth is merely 6,000 years old, which some christians believed in former times, true? Archeological discoveries and geological measurements hint that the earth might be at least a few millions years old and geologically even billions of years old.

But regardless of how old earth is, God still created it.

I can't understand why people make creation and evolution to opponents, why not evolution ensured and executed by God all the time.

It's even possible to combine the creation of Adam and Eva with evolution if necessary: God took the human body that was perfectioned through evolution, that God himself directed and caused at every step and decided to fill it with a soul and bless/curse it with a free will--> Adam is ready.

But that isn't even necessary to believe at this point of time. Right now, only micro-evolution is proofed sufficiently and only in the realm of insects and animals.

Taliesin

I agree.

[BRussell]

Just for reference, about half of Americans are young-earth (pure) creationists. Another 40% believe God guided evolution, and 10% are pure evolutionists. Here's a good summary of polls.

Other links on that site show that the US is unique among our peers in that respect, and that belief in creationism has been growing over the past few decades in the US.

I'm in the 10%, FWIW. I think the people who wrote Genesis were trying to explain the world, and that's the myth they came up with, just like every other religion has come up with their creation myths. How that many people can take it literally, I just can't understand.

[spiky_dog]

Originally posted by BRussell:
Just for reference, about half of Americans are young-earth (pure) creationists. Another 40% believe God guided evolution, and 10% are pure evolutionists. Here's a good summary of polls.

sweet jeebus, that is disturbing.

[Shaddim]

Originally posted by bamburg dunes:
Me too, Kabbalists, funny bunch they are.

Which ones?

[chris v]

Originally posted by andi*pandi:
why not just say it's all part of God's plan and let it be.

Oh, you're no fun anymore. Where's the sport in that?

[chris v]

Okay, here's the divine truth, according to some of my ancestors:

http://www.pitt.edu/~dash/blkftcreation.html

[deedar]

Didn't the mice have something to do wtih it?

[UnixMac]

Originally posted by spiky_dog:
sweet jeebus, that is disturbing.

A very interesting fact is that some of the most intelligent and learned men in the astro-sciences who have studied our universe in ad-nauseum come to the conclusion that there has to be a God. The study of Chaos has further lead to the belief that it's not possible for all of this to have happened without intelligent design.

Albert Einstein was a believer in God. And the preeminent cosmologists Stephen Hawking and Fritz Schaefer as well.

"Science without religion is lame; religion without science is blind." � Albert Einstein

Dr. "Fritz" Schaefer is the Graham Perdue Professor of Chemistry and the director of the Center for Computational Quantum Chemistry at the University of Georgia. He has been nominated for the Nobel Prize and was recently cited as the third most quoted chemist in the world. "The significance and joy in my science comes in the occasional moments of discovering something new and saying to myself, 'So that's how God did it!' My goal is to understand a little corner of God's plan." -- Dr. Fritz Schaefer U.S. News & World Report, Dec. 23, 1991.

"A Brief History of Time" - Dr. Stephen Hawking

Very interesting, would you not say?

[Mithras]

Originally posted by UnixMac:
Albert Einstein was a believer in God. And the preeminent cosmologists Stephen Hawking and Fritz Schaefer as well.

Very interesting, would you not say?

There are many ways to use the word "God".

Einstein:

"I believe in Spinoza's God who reveals Himself in the orderly harmony of what exists, not in a God who concerns himself with fates and actions of human beings."

-A. Einstein

Hawking:

The idea that space and time may form a closed surface without boundary also has profound implications for the role of God in the affairs of the universe. With the success of scientific theories in describing events, most people have come to believe that God allows the universe to evolve according to a set of laws and does not intervene in the universe to break these laws. However, the laws do not tell us what the universe should have looked like when it started � it would still be up to God to wind up the clockwork and choose how to start it off. So long as the universe had a beginning, we could suppose it had a creator. But if the universe is really completely self-contained, having no boundary or edge, it would have neither beginning nor end: it would simply be. What place, then, for a creator?

Schaefer, on the other hand, appears to be a Christian, which is a quite different interpretation of God.

[ebuddy]

I agree Mithras regarding Einstein and Hawking. Hawking is basically saying in his electronic way, that it's difficult to completely rule out a designer when you come to realize the harmony in which our planets and galaxies dwell and had they been mere fractions further apart @ inception, there would be mass chaos. This is a far cry from claiming an ultimite belief in God. Einstein was a globalist at the least, and arguably a deist.

In short, I have a hard time believing the earth is as old as it is knowing several factors;
- Our planet should be absolutely littered with transitional life forms. Debateable in regards to what constitutes a "transitional" life form. Suffice it to say, I believe we should have much more than "Lucy" to offer by way of human transition.
- Our population. Seems to me we should have many, many more people on this earth at the current rate of population growth.
- I do not know of matter that can break down and increase in complexity. I know of experiments conducted in which "diverging" of genes occured, but the result was actually toxic and could not sustain life. Can't remember author offhand.
- Micro-evolution is observable, macro is not. Some faith is required here IMHO.
- The size of our largest deserts, according to the current rate of desertification does not jive with "old earth". Debateable.
- If you think of Big Bang as peas on a merry-go-round; some galaxies are spinning the "wrong" way. Debateable as it's conceivable that some collisions would undoubtedly have occured causing this. I will say that if God produced all of the known and unknown in a matter of days, it was probably quite loud and manic. Big Bang should not be entirely ruled out.
- I've seen stalagmites form in months, not millenia. I've seen sediment form several layers in one year, not one per season or year.
- I know that fossilization can be attained in much less time when water is introduced into the equation and that time and pressure alone will not produce our findings. Debateable.

[Dakar]

I seem to remember a quote from EInstein to the effect of, "What interests me isn't whether God created the universe, but whether he had any choice in the matter."

[Shaddim]

Originally posted by Dakar:
I seem to remember a quote from EInstein to the effect of, "What interests me isn't whether God created the universe, but whether he had any choice in the matter."

That's a good quote.

And no, I don't think "He" did.

[Moderator]

Originally posted by MacNStein:
That's a good quote.

And no, I don't think "He" did.

Whether one believes in God or not has little to do with the creationism/evolution argument

[Shaddim]

Originally posted by Moderator:
Whether one believes in God or not has little to do with the creationism/evolution argument

Sure it does, but only to the individual.

[Dakar]

ANyway, I'll reiterate what people have said about not enough options, and I'll present my opinion honestly. I haven't accpeted evolution as the truth, though I find it plausible, I think creationism is a joke, I freely admit that some type of higher being(s) most likely created the universe or whatever houses it, but find it to be an impossibility that it would be by one that has been alluded to in any religion on this earth.

[RAILhead]

Originally posted by Dakar:
ANyway, I'll reiterate what people have said about not enough options, and I'll present my opinion honestly. I haven't accpeted evolution as the truth, though I find it plausible, I think creationism is a joke, I freely admit that some type of higher being(s) most likely created the universe or whatever houses it, but find it to be an impossibility that it would be by one that has been alluded to in any religion on this earth.

That makes a lot of sense. It's like saying "I freely admit that some type of contractor most likely created the steering wheel or whatever houses it, but find it to be an impossibility that it would be by one that has been alluded to in any business on this earth."

Maury

[Dakar]

Originally posted by RAILhead:
That makes a lot of sense. It's like saying "I freely admit that some type of contractor most likely created the steering wheel or whatever houses it, but find it to be an impossibility that it would be by one that has been alluded to in any business on this earth."

Maury

If you don't buy it, don't buy it. But, personally, a metaphor comparing possibly omniscient, omnipotent superbeings with contractors falls flat in my book.

The point I didnt illustrate so clearly was that I'm skepticle the thatf a supernatural being had a hand in creating the universe, and then vaguely revealed himself to humans a few thousand years ago (or whatever time-frame certain organized religions were 'founded') and has followed up since.

Edit: perhaps you'd understand what I meant better if I stated that I find it to be highly improbable that we're the only sentient creatures in all of these billions of light-years of universe, and also unlikely that we're the oldest or most knowledgable ones?

[ironknee]

well according to this poll, it's 45 to 6 in favor of evolution...

death is the reason we need a god...we are scared by to notion we are in it alone... and the church knows it ($)

[Shaddim]

Originally posted by Dakar:
If you don't buy it, don't buy it. But, personally, a metaphor comparing possibly omniscient, omnipotent superbeings with contractors falls flat in my book.

The point I didnt illustrate so clearly was that I'm skepticle the thatf a supernatural being had a hand in creating the universe, and then vaguely revealed himself to humans a few thousand years ago (or whatever time-frame certain organized religions were 'founded') and has followed up since.

How about looking at this from a different angle? In the other creation thread, we're toying around with the idea of a "Cyclical Universe", expanding and contracting. As pointed out there, we'd end up with an "eternal" multiverse... perhaps even, something akin to the "heart" of an omnipotent being? This would make us, at least to a very tiny degree, a part of "God". Just a thought.

[Dakar]

Originally posted by MacNStein:
How about looking at this from a different angle? In the other creation thread, we're toying around with the idea of a "Cyclical Universe", expanding and contracting. As pointed out there, we'd end up with an "eternal" multiverse... perhaps even, something akin to the "heart" of an omnipotent being? This would make us, at least to a very tiny degree, a part of "God". Just a thought.

I find it to be a rather romantic view, but there's nothing wrong with that, considering the enorminity of what we're trying to grasp here.

In case you care, the more romantic side of me thinks the universe is merely a petri dish in some Laboratory of the Gods.

[Shaddim]

Originally posted by Dakar:
I find it to be a rather romantic view, but there's nothing wrong with that, considering the enorminity of what we're trying to grasp here.

Well, I'm a Philosopher and Theologian by trade, so I suppose it's unavoidable.

A close friend of mine believes that the universe exists in a perpetual cycle, and is used to power God's golf cart.

In case you care, the more romantic side of me thinks the universe is merely a petri dish in some Laboratory of the Gods.

Funny you should mention that, it's my current "B" theory.

[RAILhead]

Originally posted by Dakar:
If you don't buy it, don't buy it. But, personally, a metaphor comparing possibly omniscient, omnipotent superbeings with contractors falls flat in my book.

The point I didnt illustrate so clearly was that I'm skepticle the thatf a supernatural being had a hand in creating the universe, and then vaguely revealed himself to humans a few thousand years ago (or whatever time-frame certain organized religions were 'founded') and has followed up since.

Edit: perhaps you'd understand what I meant better if I stated that I find it to be highly improbable that we're the only sentient creatures in all of these billions of light-years of universe, and also unlikely that we're the oldest or most knowledgable ones?

My point is that the idea that a supernatural creating the "universe" is just as plausible as a supernatural being not being what created the universe. You seem to dismiss this possibility due to your non-preference of "religion" -- but that foundation is shaky at best.

Further, having "God" create the "universe" and reveal "Himself" to Mankind in no way means that Mankind is the only sentient creation in the universe, or the oldest, most knowledgeable ones.

Rare are the Christians that truly believe Mankind is God's only sentient creation in His vast universe. The vast majority believe full-well that we are but a small portion on His canvas.

Maury

[BlueSky]

Mars was dying and our ancestors traveled to the third planet in order to reseed their species. The highest form of intelligence on the third planet was apes and dolphins.

They considered dolphins for a bit but decided that in the long run, being a dolphinoid would not lend itself to sporting cool hair and wearing cool shoes.

They settled on apes. The two Martians, Carl and Steve, drew straws to see which one would have to boink an ape in order to get the process started. Carl lost.

We are all descended from Carl, at least as far as intelligence and cool shoes go. I say a thank you to Carl every morning, for without Carl we would be too hairy and completely shoeless. And the porn would be way gross.

Thank you Carl.

[Shaddim]

Originally posted by Bluesky:
Mars was dying and our ancestors traveled to the third planet in order to reseed their species. The highest form of intelligence on the third planet was apes and dolphins.

They considered dolphins for a bit but decided that in the long run, being a dolphinoid would not lend itself to sporting cool hair and wearing cool shoes.

They settled on apes. The two Martians, Carl and Steve, drew straws to see which one would have to boink an ape in order to get the process started. Carl lost.

We are all descended from Carl, at least as far as intelligence and cool shoes go. I say a thank you to Carl every morning, for without Carl we would be too hairy and completely shoeless. And the porn would be way gross.

Thank you Carl.

They should have chosen the dolphins...

"So long, and thanks for all the fish."

[Dakar]

Originally posted by MacNStein:
Well, I'm a Philosopher and Theologian by trade, so I suppose it's unavoidable.

Like I said, nothing wrong with that.

Originally posted by MacNStein:
A close friend of mine believes that the universe exists in a perpetual cycle, and is used to power God's golf cart.

Clever. Reminds me of 1940s science-fiction story I read where if you shrunk yourself down small enough, protons and atoms and such would give way to new 'miniature' universes where everything look and acted the same as ours.

Originally posted by MacNStein:
Funny you should mention that, it's my current "B" theory.

Well, there's one stroke for the 'In Common' category...

---

Originally posted by RAILhead:
My point is that the idea that a supernatural creating the "universe" is just as plausible as a supernatural being not being what created the universe. You seem to dismiss this possibility due to your non-preference of "religion" -- but that foundation is shaky at best.

I don't dismiss that at all. I may think the odds are slightly tipped in one direction, but I readily admit thats a personal preference -- much like it is for those who lean that something created this universe.

Originally posted by RAILhead:
Further, having "God" create the "universe" and reveal "Himself" to Mankind in no way means that Mankind is the only sentient creation in the universe, or the oldest, most knowledgeable ones.

Perhaps not, but given the diverse amount of opinions on who or what is god, I sure find it a hell of a lot more unlikely.

Originally posted by RAILhead:
Rare are the Christians that truly believe Mankind is God's only sentient creation in His vast universe. The vast majority believe full-well that we are but a small portion on His canvas.

Maury

Not that I have a kind of proof to the contrary, but I think its far more likely that the majority of people don't ponder this notion at all. From my contacts with people in life, I don't think the majority of people woould agree "There must be aliens out there" because I think many consider a stigma attached to the idea of extra-terrestrial (sentient) life or think its just merely fanciful (which it is, after all its not like we have any indications -- bacteria may be life, but its no guarantee of the sentient kind).

I'd take a poll, but these forums aren't a good representation of the general populace, IMHO.

[dgs212]

This thread is maddening.

It hinges on one very important question: Do you believe in supernatural beings?

What would make one believe in something that, by its nature, cannot be discovered or verified? Why invent untestable hypotheses when myriad testable explanations abound?

I have brown hair. I suspect that naturally, my hair is the fairest blonde. I also suspect that every night, while I'm sleeping, a unicorn prances into my room and paints every single hair on my body brown with the tiniest of paintbrushes. The unicorn is very skittish, so if I stir even the slightest bit, it uses its magical powers to disappear. I can never ever capture or confirm its existence. It cannot be recorded by video or audio tape. Yet, yet, I believe it to exist. Why? Someone told me that's what happens.

If you believe in god, why not painting unicorns?

The powers of near-universal indoctrination are astounding!

[Shaddim]

Originally posted by dgs212:
This thread is maddening.

It hinges on one very important question: Do you believe in supernatural beings?

What would make one believe in something that, by its nature, cannot be discovered or verified? Why invent untestable hypotheses when myriad testable explanations abound?

I have brown hair. I suspect that naturally, my hair is the fairest blonde. I also suspect that every night, while I'm sleeping, a unicorn prances into my room and paints every single hair on my body brown with the tiniest of paintbrushes. The unicorn is very skittish, so if I stir even the slightest bit, it uses its magical powers to disappear. I can never ever capture or confirm its existence. It cannot be recorded by video or audio tape. Yet, yet, I believe it to exist. Why? Someone told me that's what happens.

If you believe in god, why not painting unicorns?

The powers of near-universal indoctrination are astounding!

I can't help it if you've never encountered anything "supernatural". That's not my fault and I refuse to give up my beliefs, based on my experiences, just to appease you. Perhaps you should open your mind a bit more? *shrug*

[ironknee]

Originally posted by dgs212:
This thread is maddening.

It hinges on one very important question: Do you believe in supernatural beings?

What would make one believe in something that, by its nature, cannot be discovered or verified? Why invent untestable hypotheses when myriad testable explanations abound?

I have brown hair. I suspect that naturally, my hair is the fairest blonde. I also suspect that every night, while I'm sleeping, a unicorn prances into my room and paints every single hair on my body brown with the tiniest of paintbrushes. The unicorn is very skittish, so if I stir even the slightest bit, it uses its magical powers to disappear. I can never ever capture or confirm its existence. It cannot be recorded by video or audio tape. Yet, yet, I believe it to exist. Why? Someone told me that's what happens.

If you believe in god, why not painting unicorns?

The powers of near-universal indoctrination are astounding!

There is a god, why? because the bible told me so. Who wrote the bible? god did. Their logic is as kooky as a unicorn who paints hair...

[Shaddim]

Originally posted by ironknee:
There is a god, why? because the bible told me so. Who wrote the bible? god did. Their logic is as kooky as a unicorn who paints hair...

and that's what you believe all Christians think? No wonder you guys lost the Pres election.

[Dakar]

Originally posted by MacNStein:
I can't help it if you've never encountered anything "supernatural". That's not my fault and I refuse to give up my beliefs, based on my experiences, just to appease you. Perhaps you should open your mind a bit more? *shrug*

I'm not personally asking you to reveal anything, but I've never understood what supernatural things occur to people. Moments of clarity, voices telling people important things, either can be attributed to listening to your heart or hearing god.

I'm not trying to be offensive if this comes off this way. I'm sure my post makes it quite obvious as to my ignorance on the subject.

[Shaddim]

Originally posted by Dakar:
I'm not personally asking you to reveal anything, but I've never understood what supernatural things occur to people. Moments of clarity, voices telling people important things, either can be attributed to listening to your heart or hearing god.

I'm not trying to be offensive if this comes off this way. I'm sure my post makes it quite obvious as to my ignorance on the subject.

That's a touchy subject that usually leads to ridicule around here (ie. "No, you didn't see that, you're making it up" and "You don't have proof, so it didn't happen").

Let's just say that I was agnostic and as a joke I stated a "divine challenge" of sorts, and I got called on it. Since then, my life has been far from normal.