[Zeeb]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet 

Oh gimmie a break. Next to nobody is shipping laptops with HD or Bluray drives as they are big and expensive and nobody really is in a huge need for them.

N networking has been delayed AGAIN and there is no promises that any changes can be fixed with a ROM update.

The Blue-ray or HD drive was a longshot I know but Apple been the first to try new technology in the past. I thought since a few movies have trickled out in Blue Ray that it might have been a possibility but its more likely the first apple blue ray drive will be in a desktop.

However, I think they are taking a chance by not making draft n a build to order option. Yes, the technology isn't finalized but there are draft n wireless routers and cards everywhere now. In addition, they are backwards compatible with older standards so its not like you'll have a non-functioning wireless connection -- even in the event that the final standard is radically different.

[mdc]

Any idea of what perfomance hit (?) people would see by going with the slower 200gb drive?

I'm looking to go that route and use my machine for some minor image manupulation (fireworks mostly) and a lot of iPhoto and other regular (iTunes, Mail, etc) use. I'd really like the extra 40gb.

[fisherKing]

as an audio pro, was hoping for a 7200rpm drive on the 15"...
was this an option on the current mbps?

[inkhead]

Audiopro, why don't you add a 7200 rpm hard drive in yourself? You do realize that the 7200rpm drive offered by most companies is SLOWER than the 5400rpm Hitachi drive right? If you want the fastest drive go with the 5400rpm Hitachi drive.

Besides I don't know any pro audio people who actually store any audio on a laptop, they usually connect to a big raid array or a array of backup drives, or a single backup drive over firewire, so they can output fast.

A laptop hard disk isn't a "PRO" solution for recording audio.




I think it's funny that everybody here "waits" I'm waiting for revision b, or c, just keep waiting forever and every.

Why don't you just budget for a new computer every year?

Right now I'm over budgeting, but I've been buying 1 new mac every 6 months. So now I'll have 2 Macbook Pros 1 glossy, 1 matte, and I just ordered the 64bit MacBook Pro.

[Velocity211]

finally, FW800 and DL burner! that was what stopped me from buying the MBP back then. Too bad I'm saving for an iMac, hopefully when I get the iMac and have enough money for a MBP, it'll be updated again.

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by Zeeb 

However, I think they are taking a chance by not making draft n a build to order option. Yes, the technology isn't finalized but there are draft n wireless routers and cards everywhere now. In addition, they are backwards compatible with older standards so its not like you'll have a non-functioning wireless connection -- even in the event that the final standard is radically different.

Problem is knowing Mac users if they are sold something that says "N draft compatible" and then it turns out N needs hardware changes there will be a lot of very angry Mac users and a lawsuit.

[hldan]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet 

Problem is knowing Mac users if they are sold something that says "N draft compatible" and then it turns out N needs hardware changes there will be a lot of very angry Mac users and a lawsuit.

I think you are exaggerating. I am really into computers and have never heard of this N Draft stuff until recently. Most people don't need anything like that and most likely don't care. Those are only your needs your bitchin' about.

[fisherKing]

Originally Posted by inkhead 

Audiopro, why don't you add a 7200 rpm hard drive in yourself? You do realize that the 7200rpm drive offered by most companies is SLOWER than the 5400rpm Hitachi drive right? If you want the fastest drive go with the 5400rpm Hitachi drive.

Besides I don't know any pro audio people who actually store any audio on a laptop, they usually connect to a big raid array or a array of backup drives, or a single backup drive over firewire, so they can output fast.

A laptop hard disk isn't a "PRO" solution for recording audio.

??
•a 5400rpm drive is NOT faster than a 7200rpm drive.
•lots of 'pros' travel with a powerbook, and do mixes, recording on the road (i do).
•at work, i connect to external drives for audio; was simply hoping for a 7200rpm internal option.

why do i have to buy a brand new mbp then replace the HD?

and what are you so upset about anyway??

[yticolev]

What's with 3 gig of RAM? Odd number and previously Intel machines have required matched sticks for best performance. 1 and 3 gig sticks don't qualify.

[TiDual]

I moved to the MacBook (black, 2GB, 120GB) from a G4 PowerBook, and am mulling a move to the new machines. Frankly, though, I don't care that much about speed, or VRAM, or even FW800 ... I do my real work on my MacPro. What's really making me hesitate are the following:
1) Heat ... I'll be curious to hear initial reports
2) Robustness (the MacBook is superiour to the Alu design, which I felt I had to "baby")
3) I really don't want to give up the MacBook simple open/close, for a return the "latch".
I don't think the MacBook Pro needs a major case revision, but I would really like to see the above issues finally get addressed.

[mdc]

I may be completely off, but maybe 1gb is soldered on and there is only 1 expansion slot.

[phazedowt]

Originally Posted by mdc 

I may be completely off, but maybe 1gb is soldered on and there is only 1 expansion slot.

There are 2 slots. The 3GB limit has to do with the memory controller/specific chipset used (945?).

[DevNine]

15" comes with 1GB (single SO-DIMM) of PC2-5300 (667MH 667 MHz DDR2 SDRAM)
two SO-DIMM slots support up to 3GB

[Kenneth]

I stayed up late last night and suddenly the Apple Store went down.. so I ended up goto sleep at 6am. Anyway, I went to the Apple Store this afternoon. Someone bought a previous model MBP 2.0Ghz I believe and the cashier said it's now $1,699 (was $1,999), if I'm not mistaken.

It's a good upgrade, but there are still rooms to growth.

[barry benowitz]

the 945 has 2 slot upgradeable for 4 gb

Why did Apple cripple us with 3gb

bab

[uicandrew]

Originally Posted by fisherKing 

??
•a 5400rpm drive is NOT faster than a 7200rpm drive.

yes, it can be.

http://techreport.com/reviews/2006q1...s/index.x?pg=1

hint: skip to the end of the review where they have their conclusions. a lot of great info in the article, but seriously way too detailed for most people.

the seagate 5400rpm 2.5 sata drive outperforms hitachi 7200rpm 2.5 sata drive. i swear by the seagate drives, because of their warranty and superior performance.

[barry benowitz]

My gut feeling is the 945 is pretty much the same as the IBM and there is a shortage of 2gb Ram chips right now. So maybe Apple is taking the easy approach to get the PB orders now without delays?

[brokenjago]

What's with 3 gig of RAM? Odd number and previously Intel machines have required matched sticks for best performance. 1 and 3 gig sticks don't qualify.

1 and 3 gig sticks don't qualify probably because 1+3 = 4 .

Originally Posted by barry benowitz

Why did Apple cripple us with 3gb

Apple did not "cripple" the computer, it's a limitation of the current Intel chipset. It is intel's fault, not Apple's.

[Cadaver]

The iMac Core 2 Duo machines have the same 3GB limit. Blame Intel.
Only the MacBook 'requires' matched pairs because of the integrated graphics system. Machines with discrete graphics, like the MBP, wont benefit.

[iomatic]

I considered this, but Aperture and CS2 (and later, CS3) would probably do much better on a MBP C2D. Oh soon, my pretty.

Originally Posted by TiDual 

I moved to the MacBook (black, 2GB, 120GB) from a G4 PowerBook, and am mulling a move to the new machines. Frankly, though, I don't care that much about speed, or VRAM, or even FW800 ... I do my real work on my MacPro. What's really making me hesitate are the following:
1) Heat ... I'll be curious to hear initial reports
2) Robustness (the MacBook is superiour to the Alu design, which I felt I had to "baby")
3) I really don't want to give up the MacBook simple open/close, for a return the "latch".
I don't think the MacBook Pro needs a major case revision, but I would really like to see the above issues finally get addressed.

[barry benowitz]

"Apple did not "cripple" the computer, it's a limitation of the current Intel chipset. It is intel's fault, not Apple's"


If its a Intel 945 which is not mentioned on Apple site but mention by another poster the 945 Dell and Toshiba and will take up to 4Gb so what you are saying doesnt make sense to me.

bab

[HouseSold]

Originally Posted by brokenjago 

1 and 3 gig sticks don't qualify probably because 1+3 = 4 .Apple did not "cripple" the computer, it's a limitation of the current Intel chipset. It is intel's fault, not Apple's.

How is it a limit of the Intel chipset?
Maybe ROM or OSX perhaps?

I wonder if Parallels can see 4gb?

Our $500 Toshiba 15.4" Core Duo with Firewire, PCMCIA-ExpressCard 34,54 and DL/DVD RAM addresses 4gb out of the box. It has a mediocre (slow) 945GM graphic chip set, too.

Even though the CPU is socketed in the Toshiba and would only require a BIOS update to drop in a Core 2 Duo, it wouldn't be worth it because of the crippling graphics chipset.

Our MB only sees 2GB, but I was going to try 2 of 2gb sticks to see if they're seen.

[surferboy]

Been waiting forever. Ordered placed. Does anyone know when Apple typically charges your credit card- when it ships? Does not look like it has been charged yet- and I need to make sure I am below my CC limit.

Anyone have any idea?

[osiris]

Originally Posted by surferboy 

Been waiting forever. Ordered placed. Does anyone know when Apple typically charges your credit card- when it ships? Does not look like it has been charged yet- and I need to make sure I am below my CC limit.

Anyone have any idea?

Usually when it it ships, but your mileage may vary.

[Targon]

still no higher res display option grrrr

[Podolsky]

The entry level 15 costs 30% less than the entry level 17. Yes, the 17 has more ram, bigger screen but the chip speed is only 7% faster. Anyhoot, I don't think that adds up to anywhere near $800 of additional value. If I were buying now and screen size wasn't key, I would jump in the entry level 15. It will run a bit cooler, have longer battery life, be more portable and generally be a super machine.

[davoud]

15" / 2.33GHz / 3GB / 160GB to supplement a 17" G4 PowerBook. The 17" remains a great machine, but I won't weigh myself down with another 17" laptop -- even though I don't use it on airplanes.

Macs in amateur astronomy: <http://www.davidillig.com/astromac.shtml>

[SierraDragon]

Originally Posted by Podolsky 

The entry level 15 costs 30% less than the entry level 17. Yes, the 17 has more ram, bigger screen but the chip speed is only 7% faster. Anyhoot, I don't think that adds up to anywhere near $800 of additional value. If I were buying now and screen size wasn't key, I would jump in the entry level 15. It will run a bit cooler, have longer battery life, be more portable and generally be a super machine.

The 17" MBP is not "entry level," it is the top of the laptop line. If one's needs are limited one does not need top of the line, nor for that matter even a Merom MBP; just buy a refurb MB or MBP. However if one has pro graphics needs a maxxed out top of the line MBP (bigger hard drive, faster Superdrive, double VRAM, faster clock, 2GB RAM, etc.) is more than appropriate.

-Allen Wicks

[yoyoman]

So compared to the old mac book pros what differences are there.

Faster CPU, f800.

Does it have a better graphics card? How much more ram and hd does it come with?

What does this new mbp have the older one does not have?

What is this optimized software to take advantage of this new chip? Price difference?

[nwguitar]

Well, I'm glad to be one of the people who purchased a "rev a" MBP just enough ago that barely missed being able to get the newer model...took delivery of my computer 10/5, and while I'm satisfied, it sure would be nice to have gotten the bigger HD and more memory for a couple hundred more, or to have gotten the same refurbed MBP for about 250-less.

Otherwise have been real satisfied with the money spent.

Derek P

[kerisabe]

Finally they're out! But I already purchased my Rosetta a month ago Now the memory comes 2GB standard, max 3gb! And the HD is 160GB standard. What a sad moment for me lol. Just saw this on the apple website. Anyways, im still lovin my rosetta mbp. End rant.

Btw, can we use the airline cable w/ the old MBPs?

[yticolev]

Originally Posted by Cadaver 

The iMac Core 2 Duo machines have the same 3GB limit. Blame Intel.
Only the MacBook 'requires' matched pairs because of the integrated graphics system. Machines with discrete graphics, like the MBP, wont benefit.

Thanks! That is what I was asking. 3 gigs is certainly an odd number, yes literally as well. Not the normal progression upwards.

[danengel]

When will we ever see a hi-res display, like the ones IBM had for years?

[yoyoman]

Originally Posted by yoyoman 

So compared to the old mac book pros what differences are there.

Faster CPU, f800.

Does it have a better graphics card? How much more ram and hd does it come with?

What does this new mbp have the older one does not have?

What is this optimized software to take advantage of this new chip? Price difference?

?!?!?!!?!!?!!???!??!?!?!?!?!?!!?!!?

[JoshuaZ]

I've been waiting for this for a while. I currently have a 12in 1.33 G4 Pbook and reaaaaaly want to upgrade to a 15in computer, but was holding back because of the lack of a dual layer DVD-R on it. (Oh my room mates laughed at me in college when I spent the extra $150 on a DVD burner. "You'll never use it. Waste of money." I then laughed at them when I had to burn DVDs for them!) With my teacher's discount it takes off $200. Now do I reallllly need 2 gigs of RAM and the better video card? My first impulse is to go ahead and do the upgrade, make it last longer. But is it worth it?

[just a poster]

I have a black MacBook I'm pretty happy with. But I'm waiting for a MacBook-sized Pro - 13" higher res screen (16x9 please), 7900+ Nvidia graphics chipset and, this is important, carbon fiber and leather appointments. Make the Apple on the back chrome, too.

[Simon]

There's a lot of misinformation being spread about the 3GB RAM limit. Here are some facts:

• the 3GB RAM limit is not a physical limit, it's a chipset limitation
• you can insert 4 GB (2 x 2 GB) just like you can on any PC notebook using the same chipset
• if you actually install 4 GB you will notice that only <3.2 GB are available to the OS and apps
• Apple knows that and hence they don't offer more than 3GB upgrades because it's a plain waste of money
• PC manufacturers know it as well, but some don't seem to give a damn

To make it short, you can insert 4 GB if you want. But if you actually want to use the full 4 GB you will have to wait until Intel releases the Santa Rosa chipset in 2007.

Additional info and some good links in this post.

[debohun]

Originally Posted by TiDual 

...What's really making me hesitate are the following:
1) Heat ... I'll be curious to hear initial reports.

Likewise, heat has been a major issue in my not upgrading since the MBPs and MBs were first released. Hopefully they've made some progress. I'll be visiting an Apple Store to check out the bottoms of these new machines before I actually buy. I would rather have a "reasonably thin," lap-compatible MBP then a "physic's defying" one that can double as a travel iron.

Originally Posted by TiDual 

2) Robustness (the MacBook is superiour to the Alu design, which I felt I had to "baby")

I haven't heard about any "robustness" issues with the MBPs. Can anyone else comment on this?

Originally Posted by TiDual 

3) I really don't want to give up the MacBook simple open/close, for a return the "latch". I don't think the MacBook Pro needs a major case revision, but I would really like to see the above issues finally get addressed.

I was also disappointed that some of the amazing design features of the MB didn't make their way into the MBPs: the latch-less case and self-installable hard drive are both major advantages to argue for the MP over the MBP. I also wonder if the MB's keyboard isn't more spill/splach resistant then the MBP's.

On the plus side, the new processors, addition of the FW800 port on the 15", double-layer capable burner, and the lit keyboard will probably swing me to MBP.

If anyone lays their hand on one of these new units in the next day or so, I hope they'll take the time to post their own online review here.

[Darksider]

So tempting... Anyone know when the Rev Cs will be released? I'm waiting for Adobe to get their **** together before upgrading from my 1.67 15" G4.

[TiDual]

Originally Posted by Darksider 

So tempting... Anyone know when the Rev Cs will be released? I'm waiting for Adobe to get their **** together before upgrading from my 1.67 15" G4.

hmmm ... nahhh ... I'll let someone else flame you for this one

[Commodus]

Originally Posted by Darksider 

So tempting... Anyone know when the Rev Cs will be released? I'm waiting for Adobe to get their **** together before upgrading from my 1.67 15" G4.

The new ones were just released. No one here will have an idea about the next update -- probably not even if they work at Apple. The best guess is six months from now, which would see the update ready in April.

[TiDual]

Originally Posted by debohun 

Likewise, heat has been a major issue in my not upgrading since the MBPs and MBs were first released.

The MB is now tolerable, by directly controlling the fans. But my impression was that the MBP ran even hotter (certainly early ones!).

Originally Posted by debohun 

I haven't heard about any "robustness" issues with the MBPs. Can anyone else comment on this?

I'm not saying they're flimsy. But the Alu (especially the rounded edges) dents very easily, and it feels like it's warping if you pick it up from one end. Equally, by grasping it (when closed) near the latch, the screen seems to flex towards the case, and ultimate "warped" a bit (because of the slight gap). It didn't scratch much, but I really was careful with my Alu (granted that was pre MBP but not much has changed with the case). The MacBook, by contrast, feels solid as a rock.

Still, I agree the specs are very tempting. Especially as drive sizes get that big, since I can really imagine doing more and more "heavy" work (e.g. Aperture and iMovie :-) ) on the laptop then, which would really exploit the added power (though the Black MB really is a fine machine!).

[surferboy]

I am still using the original 17" PB (1Ghz) that came out over three years ago. Still love it, but just upgraded yesterday to the 17" MBP. I use the Brenthaven bag designed for the original 17". Anyone know how I can compare specs on my current machine to the one I hope to get in the mail in the next 2 weeks? I can't imagine the overall size has changed enough to not fit in the bag? The look the same at the Apple store.

[jtice]

I agree––the low priced unit is the deal. I guess some folks see value in the larger screen, but I value portability just as much. Can't justify $500 or $800 for a gig of ram and a incremental speed difference. I've been waiting for months, so placed the order as soon as I heard. Estimated delivery November 2. You'd think they could ship same day or next day for people who order within an hour or two.

Originally Posted by Podolsky 

The entry level 15 costs 30% less than the entry level 17. Yes, the 17 has more ram, bigger screen but the chip speed is only 7% faster. Anyhoot, I don't think that adds up to anywhere near $800 of additional value. If I were buying now and screen size wasn't key, I would jump in the entry level 15. It will run a bit cooler, have longer battery life, be more portable and generally be a super machine.

[Horsepoo!!!]

Ahhh...but is it really a rev B if the chip inside is way different than what was in the previous MBP? We're not talking PPC -> x86 different but we are talking about Core Duo -> Core 2 Duo different...AFAYK, the Core 2 Duo may bring a new set of problems to the MBP. If by "rev B" you're insinuating that a lot or most of the rev A problems are going to disappear, you'll have to be extra careful because this is not a "rev B" by any stretch of the definition other than this is a second generation MBP.

[schk]

Originally Posted by Horsepoo!!! 

Ahhh...but is it really a rev B if the chip inside is way different than what was in the previous MBP? We're not talking PPC -> x86 different but we are talking about Core Duo -> Core 2 Duo different...AFAYK, the Core 2 Duo may bring a new set of problems to the MBP. If by "rev B" you're insinuating that a lot or most of the rev A problems are going to disappear, you'll have to be extra careful because this is not a "rev B" by any stretch of the definition other than this is a second generation MBP.

Considering the Merom is a drop in replacement CPU, I can see how others would look at the new Core 2 Duo machines as "rev B". There are most likely minimal changes hardware-wise, and hopefully they have made sure the problems that affected the rev A units won't re-appear in these new machines.

Regardless of of what rev these machines can be considered, I bit the bullet and ordered a stock 15" which I just got shipping notification of. Oct 30th (my est receiving date) can't come any sooner!

[Simon]

Originally Posted by schk 

Regardless of of what rev these machines can be considered, I bit the bullet and ordered a stock 15" which I just got shipping notification of. Oct 30th (my est receiving date) can't come any sooner!

OMG.

Did you order the 2.33 GHz or the 2.17 GHz model? What was your estimated shipping date?

I might get mine (ship by Oct 31, delivered by Nov 6) next week after all!

[Eriamjh]

These machines are Rev B no matter how you slice it. FW800 and a new processor makes them so. Even if it was just a speed bump with no other changes, they'd be rev B.

Who cares what WE call them. In a typical production run, there can be "under the hood" canges to mobos, controllers, etc. that we don't usually know about. When your machine dies, you might get a newer mobo than what it shipped with. It still works with everything else.

[schk]

Originally Posted by Simon 

OMG.

Did you order the 2.33 GHz or the 2.17 GHz model? What was your estimated shipping date?

I might get mine (ship by Oct 31, delivered by Nov 6) next week after all!

I ordered the stock 2.16 ghz machine after mulling about it when I got back from work, sometime around 7pm EST. The order confirmation stated an estimated ship date of Oct 30th with estimated arrival of Nov 6th.

When I woke up today, I checked my e-mail and it was a shipment notification with Fedex tracking number and an estimated arrival of Oct 30th. Tracking info show it was picked up from Shanghai

[jkwuc89]

Ordered a stock 17" with a glossy display yesterday over the phone around Noon ET.
My estimated ship by date is 11/7 with an estimated delivery date of 11/15. I've waited this long for the Merom based MBP, I can certainly wait about 2 weeks more to get delivery.