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b*tchy · Jul 25, 2002, 02:27 PM

Apple would like to give you the opportunity to upgrade to Mac OS X v10.2 �Jaguar.� Customers who purchase a qualifying Mac OS X v10.1 retail product or a new Macintosh computer on or after July 17, 2002, that does not have Mac OS X v10.2 �Jaguar� included can upgrade to Mac OS X v10.2 �Jaguar� for US$19.95.* See �Terms and Conditions� for program details.

<http://www.apple.com/macosx/uptodate/>

So I guess you only get screwed now if you bought 10.0.

Nebrie · Jul 25, 2002, 02:31 PM

This has been posted roughly 10 billion times. Also you need to read it closer.

Nonsuch · Jul 25, 2002, 02:32 PM

That's to stop the host of "I just bought 10.1 yesterday, and now I have to pay again to upgrade!" complaints. If you bought 10.1 on July 16 or earlier, you're still screwed.

hew · Jul 25, 2002, 02:33 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by b*tchy:
Apple would like to give you the opportunity to upgrade to Mac OS X v10.2 �Jaguar.� Customers who purchase a qualifying Mac OS X v10.1 retail product or a new Macintosh computer on or after July 17, 2002, that does not have Mac OS X v10.2 �Jaguar� included can upgrade to Mac OS X v10.2 �Jaguar� for US$19.95.* See �Terms and Conditions� for program details.

<http://www.apple.com/macosx/uptodate/>

So I guess you only get screwed now if you bought 10.0.<hr /></blockquote>The one key there is "On or after July 17th, 2002". I doubt many people have purchased 10.1 after that since Jaguar is so close.

Timan · Jul 25, 2002, 05:15 PM

i'm seriously thinking about going to buy it at compusa and take it back the next day and keep the reciept.

fmalloy · Jul 25, 2002, 05:35 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Timan:
i'm seriously thinking about going to buy it at compusa and take it back the next day and keep the reciept.<hr /></blockquote>Now that's real adult, take it out on CompUSA.

Look, why don't you just shoplift 10.2 when it comes out or just get it from Carracho? Wouldn't be easier for you that way, since it apparently doesn't matter how you get it, as long as its free?

Mac people are known to be passionate, intelligent, and loyal to their platform. Thanks to all you .Mac/10.2 pricing whiners, you've added cheapskate as well.

Sheesh.

Sean2068 · Jul 25, 2002, 06:34 PM

Being loyal to a platform is one thing, quite another to be asked to shed out a wad of cash for every .1 update.

Why do I get the feeling Apple won't be bosting over Jaguars sales figures?

Angus_D · Jul 25, 2002, 06:49 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Sean2068:
Being loyal to a platform is one thing, quite another to be asked to shed out a wad of cash for every .1 update.<hr /></blockquote>We've been over this. Would it have made you happy if Apple had called it "OS X 10.5" instead? Then would you have felt it was a "major version update" and would be happy to shell out money for it? Like 9.0, 8.5, 8.0, 7.5, etc.

joe · Jul 25, 2002, 09:33 PM

A major upgrade would be 11.0. Any point upgrade (ie 10.1 to 10.2) is a minor upgrade. I purchased 10.1 retail at $129, and I resent having to spend another $129 for a minor upgrade to 10.2. But having voiced my complaint, I'll likely shell out the $129 for 10.2 anyway. It damn well better be worth it though........joe

lordshaq · Jul 25, 2002, 10:14 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Angus_D:
 <blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Sean2068:
Being loyal to a platform is one thing, quite another to be asked to shed out a wad of cash for every .1 update.<hr /></blockquote>We've been over this. Would it have made you happy if Apple had called it "OS X 10.5" instead? Then would you have felt it was a "major version update" and would be happy to shell out money for it? Like 9.0, 8.5, 8.0, 7.5, etc.<hr /></blockquote>I feel you on this one Angus. People are so stuck on the ".1" update, which absolutely must mean its a miniscule upgrade. Another absolutely baffling thing going on around here, "I just bought 10.1, and I gotta pay for this again??" -- AS IF Jaguar is some sort of requirement, as if people really NEED To buy it immediately (or AT all). Got news for you, Jaguar is NOT some sort of required upgrade that everybody must run out and get. - And believe me, for those of us who actually see the advantage of upgrading, the price tag is small.

-R

b*tchy · Jul 25, 2002, 10:54 PM

Got news for you, Jaguar is NOT some sort of required upgrade that everybody must run out and get. - And believe me, for those of us who actually see the advantage of upgrading, the price tag is small.

I just feel like I am being screwed for being an "early adopter". I bought OS X in it's beta form on the promise that 10.0 would deliver parity with OS 9. Even 10.1 does not do that. On my 500mhz G4 10.1 is like running in a pool of molasses. I have seen 10.2 in action and know that it finally brings OS X very close to OS 9 parity. I'm not asking to get it free, but I think as someone who has already shelled out for OS X we should get some sort of a break.

Fair pricing would be something like:

$20 for upgrade if you bought 10.1 or a machine with 10.1 preinstalled

$40 for upgrade if you bought 10.0

Re the whole .Mac thing I also feel screwed because I helped convince people to buy Macs based on the promise of fixed email regardless of ISP. Again Apple is forcing an all or nothing choice which is annoying. The result I predict will be that Apple loses 90% of it's mac.com subscribers and leaves a bad taste in most people's mouths.

Fair pricing would be something like:

$15/year for just email

$30/year for email + 20 meg iDisk

$50/year for email + 40 meg iDisk

$70/year for email + 100meg iDisk

$100/year for all the rest.

Also it would seem to make good business sense to include a year of mac.com with all new Macs and with people who buy a full 10.2 package (at full price).

If Apple had done something like this there would still be griping, but you wouldn't see every other thread full of people complaining. You wouldn't see people making "Bait and Switch" parodies, and Apple wouldn't be getting the bad press it's getting now.

I'm sure Apple pulled these maneuvers because they are scared to death that the bottom has dropped out of the hardware market and are looking for new ways to raise some cash, but Apple's user base is it's greatest asset, and when they lose us, they become just another computer company.

funkboy · Jul 25, 2002, 11:19 PM

I personally am very glad Apple is not progressing version numbers as quickly as they used to. Of course, the "X" thing is pretty neat, so that's one incentive to not progress quickly. However, here's to hoping that Apple is considering the current changes in OS X 10.2 (which are *very* large - if you consider this a small upgrade because it's a .1 increase in version number, just look at all the new features - they are substantial ) to be small changes, and that when something *really* revolutionary happens to the OS, then they'll appropriately up the version number a .5 or a whole number.

Am I talking something like, oh, 3D holographic interfaces? No... but something similarly revolutionary...

CharlesS · Jul 25, 2002, 11:42 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Sean2068:
Being loyal to a platform is one thing, quite another to be asked to shed out a wad of cash for every .1 update.<hr /></blockquote>Apple's ".1 updates" have been a lot more significant than most "2.0 updates" these days...

Big Mac · Jul 26, 2002, 03:03 AM

Long time followers of the platform have to get away from the classic version numbering scheme. With the classic Mac OS, a single increment in the hundredths place is a minor bug fix - System 7.0 -> System 7.0.1. With the classic Mac OS, a single increment in the tenths place (.1) is a significant bug-fix update - System 7.0.1 -> System 7.1. Finally, with the classic Mac OS, a multi-increment jump in the tenths place (.5) is a significant feature upgrade - System 7.1 -> 7.5.

With Mac OS X, the hundredths place is dedicated to bug fixes, whether they are big or small updates. For instance, 10.1.1 -> 10.1.2 was a small upgrade compared to 10.1.2 -> 10.1.3. But tenths place upgrades are always going to be major steps. 10.0.0 -> 10.1.0 -> 10.2.0. Any early adopter of X can tell you that 10.1 was a very significant upgrade, and those who have used Jaguar will state that it maybe even more significant than the upgrade to 10.1. Since Apple wishes to preserve the OS X moniker, it's not going to take gigantic numbering steps as it did with the classic Mac OS. If OS X's numbering scheme were the same as classic's, then Jaguar would be called OS XI.

Look on Apple's page for the feature details, or look at what's posted around the Internet about Jaguar. Better yet, use it in person. If you don't think it's worth your hard earned money, then take a pass. But this is certainly not a bug fix release, and one cannot expect Apple to price it as such. Now 10.1 was an exception as far as pricing -- it was a key update to move us away from the deeply flawed original code base. While Jaguar's price is rather steep, and the fact that there's no upgrade CD also smarts, determine for yourself whether the cost is worth it to you.

Spheric Harlot · Jul 26, 2002, 03:47 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by joe:
A major upgrade would be 11.0. Any point upgrade (ie 10.1 to 10.2) is a minor upgrade. I purchased 10.1 retail at $129, and I resent having to spend another $129 for a minor upgrade to 10.2. But having voiced my complaint, I'll likely shell out the $129 for 10.2 anyway. It damn well better be worth it though........joe<hr /></blockquote>That a point upgrade is by no means necessarily a "minor" upgrade has already been stated. The numbering system has changed back to something sensible with OS X.

What I think Apple should have done is to offer the upgrade at $129 and offer the regular retail (non-upgrade) at $199. That would have shut off most of the whining from the start by putting stuff into perspective.

What really bugs me, though, is that Apple Germany is asking US$ 155 (!), AFTER deducting sales tax. Including tax, it's $179! That's a 20% markup *before* another 16% sales tax gets tacked on. And it's across the board on Apple products.

And you wonder why nobody buys Apple stuff over here...though, in all fairness, the dollar just collapsed a few weeks ago, so we may see pricing adjustments yet - NOT.

-spheric*

Developer · Jul 26, 2002, 04:13 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Spheric Harlot:
What I think Apple should have done is to offer [...] the regular retail (non-upgrade) at $199. [...]

What really bugs me, though, is that Apple Germany is asking [...] $179!<hr /></blockquote>So? That's still $20 less than you were willing to pay for it.

mmurray · Jul 26, 2002, 05:05 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by lordshaq:
Got news for you, Jaguar is NOT some sort of required upgrade that everybody must run out and get. - And believe me, for those of us who actually see the advantage of upgrading, the price tag is small.

<hr /></blockquote>So you think that Apple will continue to provide all security patches for both
10.1 and 10.2 ?

Michael

JLL · Jul 26, 2002, 05:37 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Spheric Harlot:
What really bugs me, though, is that Apple Germany is asking US$ 155 (!), AFTER deducting sales tax. Including tax, it's $179! That's a 20% markup *before* another 16% sales tax gets tacked on. And it's across the board on Apple products.<hr /></blockquote>BS. The price is EUR 139 without tax and that is appr. USD 139 using today's exchange rate.

Jerommeke · Jul 26, 2002, 06:02 AM

this is not any news

it would be more acceptable without the date part in it, so that ALL 10.1 buyers would get it for the price of $ 19.95