[jdonahue]

Just wondering if anyone can compare the 15" iMac g4 700 v the 20" iMac g4 1.25 gz. I currently have the 15" but am looking to upgrade. Is the performance increase of the 20" a really big leap up from the 15" or is it marginal?

[Simon]

Originally posted by jdonahue:
Just wondering if anyone can compare the 15" iMac g4 700 v the 20" iMac g4 1.25 gz. I currently have the 15" but am looking to upgrade. Is the performance increase of the 20" a really big leap up from the 15" or is it marginal?

Let's see. The 800MHz 15" was a lame duck compared to the 17" 1GHz model. I would guess therefore, that you will see a great improvement going from the 700MHz 15" to the 1.25GHz 20".

Apart from the fact that the 20" iMac's screen is huge and gorgeous, the machine has a much faster CPU, better bus, faster disk, better GPU, APX, BT, etc. so I'd go for it as soon as you can afford it.

[99RedSi]

My dilemma is the 17" vs. the 20"! I've heard the 20" is twice as heavy? Also, can the Superdrive write DVD-RW/DVD+RW discs?

Also, is it better to have the RAM upgraded by Apple to 512MB (1 stick) vs. the stock and then just add user memory?

Thanks

[Simon]

Originally posted by 99RedSi:
My dilemma is the 17" vs. the 20"!

Quick and simple answer: If you can afford the 20", get it! If not, get the 17" and enjoy nevertheless.

I've heard the 20" is twice as heavy?

According to http://www.apple.com/imac/specs.html the 20" is 40.1 pounds (18.2 kg) and the 17" is 22.8 pounds (10.4 kg) so it's not twice as heavy, but almost.

Also, can the Superdrive write DVD-RW/DVD+RW discs?

It reads and writes to DVD-R. Apple doesn't mention RW or +. So IIRC, no.

Also, is it better to have the RAM upgraded by Apple to 512MB (1 stick) vs. the stock and then just add user memory?

Yes, because they will put 512MB in the lower slot which is "not user-accessible". You can upgrade that slot, but most don't want to (tedious, thermal paste, warranty, etc.). If you let them put 512 in the lower slot you still have an open user slot for up to 1GB, which would give you a total of 1.5GB which is probably enough for most iMac users.

Only go for the 256 in the lower slot if you really, really have to cut corners, i.e. don't do it.

[99RedSi]

Originally posted by Simon:
Quick and simple answer: If you can afford the 20", get it! If not, get the 17" and enjoy nevertheless.



According to http://www.apple.com/imac/specs.html the 20" is 40.1 pounds (18.2 kg) and the 17" is 22.8 pounds (10.4 kg) so it's not twice as heavy, but almost.



It reads and writes to DVD-R. Apple doesn't mention RW or +. So IIRC, no.



Yes, because they will put 512MB in the lower slot which is "not user-accessible". You can upgrade that slot, but most don't want to (tedious, thermal paste, warranty, etc.). If you let them put 512 in the lower slot you still have an open user slot for up to 1GB, which would give you a total of 1.5GB which is probably enough for most iMac users.

Only go for the 256 in the lower slot if you really, really have to cut corners, i.e. don't do it.

Simon, thanks for the quick reply

More questions:

* Do any Apple products that have Superdrives burn to DVD-/DVD+RW discs? (Powerbook and PowerMac for example)

* Is 80GB enough for just standard use (applications, OS, etc)? I plan on getting an external firewire drive down the road for music recording (which is why I'm buying a Mac in the first place).

* Is the 80GB a 5400 RPM drive while the 160GB is 7200 RPM? If so, is the difference really that large as far as performance?

* If I did in fact get the 512MB in the non-accessible slot, I do ultimately want to buy a 1GB user slot RAM stick, bringing me to 1.5GB. However, is the difference between 1.25GB and 1.5GB *really* that noticeable? If not, I'll leave it at 256MB stock and buy a 1GB user slot RAM stick a month or so down the road!

I'm trying to purchase the *smart* options for the iMac rather than just something I would want - catch my drift? If one option is *that* much better than a stock option, I'll do it. But if it's negligable, I won't bother!

Thanks for shooting straight!

[Rev-O]

Originally posted by 99RedSi:
Simon, thanks for the quick reply

More questions:

* Do any Apple products that have Superdrives burn to DVD-/DVD+RW discs? (Powerbook and PowerMac for example)

As far as I know Apple only supports Dvd-R. That's it.

* Is 80GB enough for just standard use (applications, OS, etc)? I plan on getting an external firewire drive down the road for music recording (which is why I'm buying a Mac in the first place).

Yah, I think so. 80 gig inside is just fine imho. Becareful with an external firewire 800 drive... there were some Panther issues with some of 'em, and haven't paid any attention as to whether or not they've sorted them all out.

* If I did in fact get the 512MB in the non-accessible slot, I do ultimately want to buy a 1GB user slot RAM stick, bringing me to 1.5GB. However, is the difference between 1.25GB and 1.5GB *really* that noticeable? If not, I'll leave it at 256MB stock and buy a 1GB user slot RAM stick a month or so down the road!

Y'know, the diff between 1.25 and 1.5 isn't huge. But the gap between 256 and 512 is huge in OS X. 256 is about as bare bones as you'd like to go with OS X. I'd spring for the internal 512, and that'd last you for a while, and make that ram upgrade not so urgent.

I'm trying to purchase the *smart* options for the iMac rather than just something I would want - catch my drift? If one option is *that* much better than a stock option, I'll do it. But if it's negligable, I won't bother!

Consider bluetooth. It's up and coming, and it might be nifty to have down the road, and I think it's a pain in the ghoulies to get after the fact.

Happy hunting!

[Simon]

Originally posted by 99RedSi:
Simon, thanks for the quick reply

No problem.

More questions:

I'll second Rev-O. Take a look at his answers. But, I'll add these...

Is the 80GB a 5400 RPM drive while the 160GB is 7200 RPM? If so, is the difference really that large as far as performance?

According to the AppleStore pages (select an iMac and then under the HD CTO menu click on the "Learn more" link) both drives are 7200RPM Ultra ATA/100. That's nice and fast for normal use. It's just a difference in size.

If you're planing on getting an external FW drive for data anyway, I suggest the 80GB. Of course you can always fill more, but unless you don't care about money at all I'd go with the stock 80GB.

If I did in fact get the 512MB in the non-accessible slot, I do ultimately want to buy a 1GB user slot RAM stick, bringing me to 1.5GB. However, is the difference between 1.25GB and 1.5GB *really* that noticeable? If not, I'll leave it at 256MB stock and buy a 1GB user slot RAM stick a month or so down the road!

The difference between 1.25GB and 1.5GB is probably not that big, but if you're going to do demanding stuff and you need all the RAM you can get, the difference will be exactly 256MB. The problem with getting a 1GB stick for the user slot is that the 1GB SO-DIMMs are the highest density and thus you pay a premium. The 1GB stick will certainly cost more than twice the price of a 512MB stick. So by the above logic you could also start thinking that maybe you should have Apple install 512MB and you install an additional 512MB in the user slot so you get 1GB which is not quite as much as 1.25GB but certainly enough for normal stuff and maybe you would even save some money. But then again if you install a smaller DIMM now and you want to get a larger one later, you'll be throwing away a working DIMM which sucks too... I don't know what's cheapest/best, you do the math.

For OS X (Jaguar or Panther) my general rule of thumb is:
- 512MB is the bare minimum. Anything less is not just no fun, but it's torture as soon as you have more than the Finder running. There should be a UN resolution against soldering less than 512MB on any board.
- 768MB is already quite nice. If you do Safari, mail, Office it's fine.
- 1GB is where it starts to get really good. More demanding apps, more professional use starts here.

[99RedSi]

Originally posted by Rev-O:
Happy hunting!

Thanks again, everyone!

Why is Bluetooth a pain to get after purchasing an iMac? Is that something that is internally installed that is difficult to get to? Pardon my ignorance on this.

[Simon]

Originally posted by 99RedSi:
Why is Bluetooth a pain to get after purchasing an iMac? Is that something that is internally installed that is difficult to get to?

Yes.

Actually, it's even worse. According to some if you don't get it as BTO, you can't add it internally later. Others claim, that their friendly dealer offered to order it as a replacement part from Apple and install it for them. Either way, it costs more and it takes time. Get it right from the start when you BTO in the AppleStore.

[99RedSi]

Originally posted by Simon:
Yes.

Actually, it's even worse. According to some if you don't get it as BTO, you can't add it internally later. Others claim, that their friendly dealer offered to order it as a replacement part from Apple and install it for them. Either way, it costs more and it takes time. Get it right from the start when you BTO in the AppleStore.

Another question: What about .Mac?

* Is it *truly* worth it? I use Yahoo Briefcase (file storage) and Yahoo Email and seem to be fine with it.

* Can I get .Mac *anytime* before the March 27th, 2004 promotional deadline? (like Applecare - I have one year from date of purchase) Or do I have to purchase it at the time I actually purchase the iMac?


Thanks, I'm going to be making my decision very soon!

[Simon]

Originally posted by 99RedSi:
Another question: What about .Mac?

I don't need it so I don't have it and I therefore know jack about it.

I wouldn't get it. But of course I'm biased.

[BrunoBruin]

You can get a 60-day trial of .Mac at any time, to see if you like it or not. I personally find it very handy, the integration with iPhoto for sharing images is very slick. I also use Backup for backing up things like my keychains, Safari settings and so forth.

You can also add a Bluetooth external dongle at any time. It's just a little thumb-sized thing that attaches to a USB port. Of course that means giving up a USB port, but if you have a Bluetooth keyboard you gain a port anyway.

[99RedSi]

I think I'm going to leave the standard memory in the system and just by a 1GB SO-DIMM from Crucial for $399 instead. I'm applying the $180 saved from the Apple store on a single 512MB stick (non-user accessible) towards the SO-DIMM.

I just can't seem to justify paying Apple's outrageous memory price!


What's the word on this? Opinions?

[BrunoBruin]

Originally posted by 99RedSi:
I just can't seem to justify paying Apple's outrageous memory price!

Who can? Except in the case of the iBook, where they seem to be reasonable.

Personally, depending on what kind of work you plan to do, I'd spend $100 and stick a third-party 512 in the user-accessible slot and let it go at that. There's a law of diminishing returns with RAM. Yes, there's a huge difference between 128 and 256, and a big difference between 256 and 512, but from there you're talking about incremental improvements, unless you're working on massive files or data sets. I don't know that the difference between 768 and 1MB is worth the price. Just my opinion.

[Rev-O]

Originally posted by 99RedSi:
I think I'm going to leave the standard memory in the system and just by a 1GB SO-DIMM from Crucial for $399 instead. I'm applying the $180 saved from the Apple store on a single 512MB stick (non-user accessible) towards the SO-DIMM.

I just can't seem to justify paying Apple's outrageous memory price!


What's the word on this? Opinions?

Works! Just get the extra ram right away 'cuz Panther eats 256megs as an appetizer.

[Simon]

Originally posted by 99RedSi:
What's the word on this? Opinions?

Fine, do it.

But don't get the RAM one single second later than the iMac. Using the iMac on 256MB RAM is a federal crime in most countries.

[JZ]

Originally posted by Rev-O:
* Do any Apple products that have Superdrives burn to DVD-/DVD+RW discs? (Powerbook and PowerMac for example)

As far as I know Apple only supports Dvd-R. That's it.

Just because they don't mention it, doesn't mean it won't work.

I have a 2 year old 867mhz G4 tower with a superdrive and I read, write, erase, and re-write DVD-RW discs all the time.

Use Disc Utility to erase a disc and then burn it again with the finder. (Hell the instructions under "erase" in disc util actually say "Erasing an optical disc (CD-RW, DVD-RW) will result...")

Unless Apple is purposely disabling such a thing I don't see why it wouldn't work on newer hardware.

[Me�vv]

Sorry fo rmaking you confused by my view is slightly different.
I would NOT get the 512 chip in the lower slot the difference is too tiny and you pay a huge premium for that. I mean $200 for getting 256 MB more, come on...

No instead I would get the plain iMac with its 256 MB. Then spend $80 from a third party vendor and get 512 extra for a total of 768 MB. It is very easy to put in, you get more RAM, and you save $120.

You say yourself that you will upgrade with a 1 GB chip later. Who cares if it will be 1.25 or 1.50?

INstead, absolutely up the hard drive to 160 MB. It is a bargain for only $100 more. You will get a computer that you can keep for at least one year longer. 80 GB you will fill up very soon if you plan to have your music, pictures, etc on it. If you plan to do any movies while you own this computer, well, then the full hard drive will drive you nuts. And a DVD will feel in a few years what CD feels today. Tiny.

These are just my plain opinions.
Good luck with whatever you get.

[Me�vv]

Originally posted by 99RedSi:
Another question: What about .Mac?

* Is it *truly* worth it? I use Yahoo Briefcase (file storage) and Yahoo Email and seem to be fine with it.

* Can I get .Mac *anytime* before the March 27th, 2004 promotional deadline? (like Applecare - I have one year from date of purchase) Or do I have to purchase it at the time I actually purchase the iMac?


Thanks, I'm going to be making my decision very soon!

Yes, .Mac is brilliant. I have it and use it all the time. But, spymac jsut announced a free version, which is full of ads but works (soon at least). Anyway, you should definitely start with tthe free .mac account.

AppleCare: get it! but you dont need to pay for it right now. You have a whole year to decide and during that year you have warranty anyway.

[99RedSi]

Originally posted by Me�vv:
Sorry fo rmaking you confused by my view is slightly different.
I would NOT get the 512 chip in the lower slot the difference is too tiny and you pay a huge premium for that. I mean $200 for getting 256 MB more, come on...

No instead I would get the plain iMac with its 256 MB. Then spend $80 from a third party vendor and get 512 extra for a total of 768 MB. It is very easy to put in, you get more RAM, and you save $120.

You say yourself that you will upgrade with a 1 GB chip later. Who cares if it will be 1.25 or 1.50?

INstead, absolutely up the hard drive to 160 MB. It is a bargain for only $100 more. You will get a computer that you can keep for at least one year longer. 80 GB you will fill up very soon if you plan to have your music, pictures, etc on it. If you plan to do any movies while you own this computer, well, then the full hard drive will drive you nuts. And a DVD will feel in a few years what CD feels today. Tiny.

These are just my plain opinions.
Good luck with whatever you get.

I used to think this to and still would *IF* I already didn't plan to get an external fire wire hard drive for my "music" parition (photos too but I'm going to begin recording music some). A 160GB would be ideal though regardless because I'm sure upgrading the hard drive in an iMac isn't easy. But how *worth* it is it for those that will be purchasing firewire down the road?

Good debate/discussion, I appreciate it! I'm getting closer and closer to ownership

[Drakino]

The 2x Superdrive in my G4 Powerbook burns fine to DVD-RW disks at 1x, including iApps. I use it all the time to test first before wasting a DVD-R disc.

Disk Utility lets you erase DVD-RW disks with no problem.

[cc_foo]

I think it is a mistake to get a 20" iMac. Eventually, the iMac will be obsolete. When I say obsolete I mean Apple will make their applications require a faster processor than the one installed in it (e.g. Mac OS X 10.5, or iDVD 6 or whatever).

And in that case, you would have paid for a 20" LCD that you cannot take to another computer. It's stuck! And even if the 20 LCD is in good condition, it's worth deteriorates with the iMac.

Just my thought.

[CrackedButter]

CC foo, people get on fine with the first rev original imacs and some install panther on them as well. There are like 233mhz as well. 1.25Ghz is going to be fine for years if you don't need demanding stuff.

Hell i'm impressed with this emac i have just bought and i downgraded from a 15" 1.25Ghz PB.

[Rev-O]

Originally posted by cc_foo:
I think it is a mistake to get a 20" iMac. Eventually, the iMac will be obsolete. When I say obsolete I mean Apple will make their applications require a faster processor than the one installed in it (e.g. Mac OS X 10.5, or iDVD 6 or whatever).

I'm replying to to this on a 600MHz G3 iMac right now. Bought it new as a close out spring of 2002, so it wasn't even close to state of the art. It won't run the new games, doesn't have a Dvd-rom drive in it, would probably struggle with parts of garage band and takes awhile with the current iMovie.

What's the big? This fella has worked wonderfully for me and runs Panther perfectly. Does Safari, Mail, iTunes, burs cd's, plays fun games, does wordprocessing, yatta yatta yah. I expect it'll probably run 10.4 (whenever that arrives) too. Computers become obsolete. Fact of life. so to counter this, you buy as much computer as you can when you can, and you live with it being bitchin' for about 6 months. Then there's something more bitchin'.

Is there gonna be a G5 iMac? Sure. why don't you let us know when it's coming out? Next week? Next month? Yes, in perfect world, you buy the G5 iMac when it first comes out... but wait... then it's a first generation machine, and those are buggy. So wait until the Rev-B G5 iMacs... but wait... those are old technology.

I understand you thoughts, I just don't entirely agrre with 'em. Buy as much as you can, when you can, and live with it.

[iTarzan]

Originally posted by JZ:
Just because they don't mention it, doesn't mean it won't work.

I have a 2 year old 867mhz G4 tower with a superdrive and I read, write, erase, and re-write DVD-RW discs all the time.

Use Disc Utility to erase a disc and then burn it again with the finder. (Hell the instructions under "erase" in disc util actually say "Erasing an optical disc (CD-RW, DVD-RW) will result...")

Unless Apple is purposely disabling such a thing I don't see why it wouldn't work on newer hardware.

I think you misunderstand what he is asking. Apple does support burning DVD-RW discs with superdrives. He is asking whether you can burn DVD+R/+RW discs with the superdrive. In that case, the answer is no.

[Asystole]

The question to ask yourself, is do I need the 1.25 to do something my 700 wont? If the answer is no, save your money.