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Art Vandelay · Nov 15, 2006, 11:18 PM

With the example provided, do you want all of that in the Spotlight menu? What if there were other search items like files, etc. that matched? That would be one very cluttered menu.

milhous · Nov 16, 2006, 10:41 AM

well like i said originally, that's why you'd have to use a spotlight command like "define:" and have it be a reserved word/phrase to indicate that spotlight should only return the definition and have it appear in-line with the spotlight dropdown.

Kerrigan · Nov 16, 2006, 11:46 PM

With regards to the interface update... is this it?

I hope there is something better in store. If those "chalky" white buttons go system wide, it'll suck.

Chuckit · Nov 17, 2006, 01:29 AM

If I recall, that picture was demonstrating the new kinds of buttons that are available to developers.

andretan · Nov 24, 2006, 02:00 PM

Has anyone read this?

-QuickLook is a new feature which allows users to view a full size preview of any image by right clicking on it, without having to open up the full Preview application.
-The workflow for creating Dashboard Web Clips has changed. Instead of having to first open Dashboard, users can now create Web Clips directly within Safari.
-When connecting a new external storage device, Leopard will ask you if would like to use the drive as a Time Machine backup drive.
-The Spaces switching dialog is now a glossy black.

Sounds pretty good.

pra9ab0y · Nov 27, 2006, 04:34 PM

I will be happy with leapord however it comes. It will be better than any OS so why bother critising it if you have NO idea whats in it yet???

You have basics and no hard true facts about a new finder or buttons or anyting!

monkeybrain · Nov 29, 2006, 04:13 AM

Yeah. I read those buttons are now available to developers (previously being used in the Finder and iapps etc.). They're also resolution independent. I remember when they first starting using those (panther was it?), they are such a copy of the Milk theme.

Feynman · Dec 11, 2006, 10:47 PM

So with all the latest rumors about the new UI, I had this to say over in the AppleInsider:

Okay I think I might be onto something.....I just thought of this so if anyone thinks I'm crazy by all means tell me but....

Look at the Mac OS 10.4 (Tiger) box....look at the X....what color is it? One might say silver but I was thinking more aluminum.... brushed aluminum. What UI dominate in Tiger? Brushed aluminum!

Now, let's look at the Mac OS 10.5 (Leopard) X...what color is it? Black. Not just any black but....polished black! Look at the UI in Time Machine....what color is the navigation bar down at the bottom? Polished black!

I think I'm on to something....

Dark Helmet · Dec 12, 2006, 02:12 AM

Originally Posted by Feynman

I think I'm on to something....

You are, but a year behind.

Feynman · Dec 12, 2006, 02:20 AM

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

You are, but a year behind.

How so? All I am getting at is that the X is giving us major clues about what the UI will look like. Few people believe we will see a polished black UI in Leopard and I am pointing out to why I think we will.

Kerrigan · Dec 12, 2006, 03:28 AM

We had been chatting about the glossy black UI a loooong time ago. In fact, I think SWG (Dark Helmet) and I were the only people who were arguing that Apple was working on a major revamp of Aqua, everyone else dismissed this and said that tiny, dull changes were the way to go.

It's such old hat that frankly I think Apple would be a bit behind the curve with a glossy black UI. MTV.com is already covered in it, so is MS's Urge software, and Vista builds have been using it on and off for a while now.

Velocity211 · Dec 12, 2006, 03:54 PM

New interface for leopard.

Chuckit · Dec 12, 2006, 04:05 PM

Originally Posted by Velocity211

New interface for leopard.

"Illuminous"? Yeah, I'm going to call bullshit and I haven't even finished reading the story.

Dark Helmet · Dec 12, 2006, 05:11 PM

I'm still sure there will be drastic interface changes I am just worried about the "black gloss" approach as it will look too much like Vista and perhaps even ship after.

I hope animation and "larger" buttons, bars etc play more into it.

Chuckit · 09:17 PM

Please, God, no animation. If I want dancing freakin' paperclips, I hear there's a new version of Windows coming out sometime soon.

Kerrigan · Dec 12, 2006, 09:55 PM

Who said anything about dancing paper clips? OSX is full of dated animations: update them and add some new ones.

monkeybrain · Dec 12, 2006, 10:12 PM

Hmm, maybe it is going glossy black. Didn't one of the newer builds change the little bezel used in Spaces to glossy black? That gloss style looks overdone in my opinion. Just look at the gloss on the big arrows used in Time Machine.

themexican · Dec 12, 2006, 11:23 PM

There have been rumors of major interface changes before each and every os x release and each release ends up being pretty much what was expected given the developer releases with some interface tweaks in the core applications. I'll bet this release follows that same pattern... ie an interface that looks pretty much like what we saw in the developer preview and slicker versions of ical, mail, etc... My guess is it will be a mishmash... a bit of the new unified look, a bit of aqua, a bit of the new black look, etc... Unfortunately Apple long ago stopped caring about consistent UI across applications or even application types.

Simon · Dec 13, 2006, 04:26 AM

Originally Posted by Chuckit

"Illuminous"? Yeah, I'm going to call bullshit and I haven't even finished reading the story.

The same crossed my mind. When these rumors appear in English, I might consider them.

xi_hyperon · Dec 13, 2006, 11:07 AM

Illuminous just sounds way too much like a name created by Microsoft. That, and can black really be considered "illuminous"? This contradiction in tems is also very microsoft-ish. I suspect that this particular inside information isn't authentic.

monkeybrain · Dec 13, 2006, 11:46 AM

It's referring to lens flares. Everything will be covered in lens flares.

Catfish_Man · Dec 13, 2006, 12:46 PM

Originally Posted by xi_hyperon

Illuminous just sounds way too much like a name created by Microsoft. That, and can black really be considered "illuminous"? This contradiction in tems is also very microsoft-ish. I suspect that this particular inside information isn't authentic.

Contradictions are microsoft-ish now? And glossy somehow has nothing to do with illumination? There are plenty of reasons to be skeptical of this rumor without making up silly reasons.

OreoCookie · Dec 13, 2006, 07:48 PM

Illuminous is a very strange name, indeed. I personally find iTunes 7 too dark for my taste, a bit gloomy. No comparison to happy Aqua. And all those who don't like a touch of color in their lives, there's always the gray theme …

On the other hand, I'd really prefer Apple to merge those different UI styles. I hope Apple hasn't been inspired by Vista too much …

xi_hyperon · Dec 14, 2006, 01:28 AM

Originally Posted by Catfish_Man

Contradictions are microsoft-ish now? And glossy somehow has nothing to do with illumination?

No, the name, and this particular contradiction, struck me as microsoft-ish. And black? Ilumination is not the first term that would come to mind, so no.

There are plenty of reasons to be skeptical of this rumor without making up silly reasons.

So if we disagree, I'm silly? Ok. Do you have anything of actual use you'd like to share with the class, now?

Simon · Dec 14, 2006, 04:47 AM

Originally Posted by OreoCookie

On the other hand, I'd really prefer Apple to merge those different UI styles. I hope Apple hasn't been inspired by Vista too much …

Agreed. Personally I can live with Aqua, BM or whatever else they have floating around as long as they finally settle on one GUI and stick to it. Across the board. This isn't Windows.

kmkkid · Dec 14, 2006, 01:05 PM

Apple should look at this video for leopard ideas:

YouTube - Longhorn concept

It's what Vista was supposed to be. But, it's not.

Dark Helmet · Dec 14, 2006, 01:51 PM

Wow a lot of that stuff is actually pretty cool (colours aside). I love the animated feedback for tasks.

I'm positive Core Animation will play a huge roll in the OS and pretty much every app that come out after 10.5 ships.

Mac_X · Dec 17, 2006, 02:28 PM

my intuition was that Leopard would look more like the new iTunes and iLife, Mail, Camino... personally i like it, also because brushed metal is getting a bit old. Hope the "glossy black" look doesnt become the new UI... it would be incredibly ugly to have that kind of windows. Logic would have to say apple is going for the Glossy Black or iLife look.... hopefully it will be a bigger change than Panther --> Tiger.

Goldfinger · Dec 17, 2006, 07:41 PM

ZFS in Leopard? - The Unofficial Apple Weblog (TUAW) This looks pretty interesting. It's about ZFS support in the latest dev release.

freudling · Dec 18, 2006, 06:08 AM

when is leopard coming out????

Catfish_Man · Dec 18, 2006, 06:12 AM

In the Spring, like Apple said.

cgc · Dec 18, 2006, 08:31 AM

I think Uno with Max's Sunken Aqua buttons would be fine. No need for the plain iTunes 7 look, the drab/dark pro apps and widget look, and definitely no need to copy M$. I seriously doubt SJ would copy Vista's look... Some form of GUI consolidation is needed, however.

cgc · Dec 18, 2006, 08:37 AM

I think Uno with Max's Sunken Aqua buttons would be fine. No need for the plain iTunes 7 look, the drab/dark pro apps and widget look, and definitely no need to copy M$. I seriously doubt SJ would copy Vista's look... Some form of GUI consolidation is needed, however.

Dark Helmet · Dec 19, 2006, 01:30 PM

IF there is a big interface change I don't think 10.5 will ship before April as Apple needs to give developers time to test and adjust their apps to make sure everything works the way it should. At MacWorld they will probably release another beta for devs with the final interface.

kmkkid · Dec 20, 2006, 01:18 PM

MacRumors has some screenshots from the latest build.

Mac Rumors: Leopard Mac OS X 10.5 9A321 Screenshots

I hope the whole UI ends up like the quicklook SS. I like the black glass and white controls.

Also interesting to point out - the action menu now has contextual menu 'view' items

No more having to open the view options palette for a quick change!

besson3c · Dec 20, 2006, 01:58 PM

I still don't understand why so many Mac users are just Jonesing to see what the OS will look like and are intensely interested in all of these cosmetic issues.

kmkkid · Dec 20, 2006, 02:11 PM

Originally Posted by besson3c

I still don't understand why so many Mac users are just Jonesing to see what the OS will look like and are intensely interested in all of these cosmetic issues.

Mac users have always been about cosmetics.

Horsepoo!!! · 02:24 PM

Originally Posted by besson3c

I still don't understand why so many Mac users are just Jonesing to see what the OS will look like and are intensely interested in all of these cosmetic issues.

Neither do I...I'll settle for a consistent system-wide GUI but am more interested in the new features Leopard will bring...I hope Apple isn't wasting time giving OS X a facelift.

Some people here have no concept of improvement ('cept the looks).

besson3c · Dec 20, 2006, 02:16 PM

Originally Posted by kmkkid

Mac users have always been about cosmetics.

I understand that, and I look absolutely awesome so maybe that's why I use a Mac... I just don't understand why it extends this far... I mean, how many pages of posts have there been in this and other threads debating whether Apple should use this gradient or go for a glossy look, and this and that and.... I say: who cares?

There are certainly many other concerns that are far more interesting to me to mull over, like making the Finder not suck.

ghporter · Dec 20, 2006, 02:56 PM

I'm thinking about either getting Tiger soon, or waiting for Leopard for my wife's 800MHz G4 iBook (currently running Panther). I have searched quite a bit and not found the "official" system requirements for Leopard to be able to determine whether or not I should bother with it for her. I most likely will wait for Leopard to be out for a while before I upgrade my MBP, but if it'll work on her iBook then I'd probably buy a copy for her right away.

So where can I find those "official" requirements. I am NOT an ADC member, by the way.

TheoCryst · 09:09 PM

Originally Posted by ghporter

So where can I find those "official" requirements. I am NOT an ADC member, by the way.

From what I can tell, no one, not even ADC members, have received official requirements. All that's known is that current builds will not run on G3s or older. If I were you, I'd hold out until at least after MWSF before buying anything, as we should know a lot more about Leopard by then.

EDIT: A quick look at some new pics posted on ThinkSecret of build 9a321 reveals the folowing requirements:
- an Intel processor or a PowerPC G4 or G5
- a DVD drive
- build-in Firewire
- at least 256 MB of RAM for a PowerPC-based Mac and 512 MB of RAM for an Intel-based Mac (additional RAM is recommended for development purposes)
- a built-in display or a display connected to an Apple-supplied video card supported by your computer
- at least 6 GB of disk space available, or 8 GB of disk space if you install the developer tools

ghporter · Dec 21, 2006, 11:09 PM

Originally Posted by TheoCryst

From what I can tell, no one, not even ADC members, have received official requirements. All that's known is that current builds will not run on G3s or older. If I were you, I'd hold out until at least after MWSF before buying anything, as we should know a lot more about Leopard by then.

EDIT: A quick look at some new pics posted on ThinkSecret of build 9a321 reveals the folowing requirements:
- an Intel processor or a PowerPC G4 or G5
- a DVD drive
- build-in Firewire
- at least 256 MB of RAM for a PowerPC-based Mac and 512 MB of RAM for an Intel-based Mac (additional RAM is recommended for development purposes)
- a built-in display or a display connected to an Apple-supplied video card supported by your computer
- at least 6 GB of disk space available, or 8 GB of disk space if you install the developer tools

Thanks, TheoCryst. That would indicate that an 800MHz G4 iBook with enough RAM and disk space would do fine with Leopard. Except I am VERY puzzled about one thing: why is "built in Firewire" so frequently a system requirement? Were there ANY PPC G4s or G5s that came without Firewire?

stefanicotine · 01:10 AM

Originally Posted by kmkkid

MacRumors has some screenshots from the latest build.

Mac Rumors: Leopard Mac OS X 10.5 9A321 Screenshots

I hope the whole UI ends up like the quicklook SS. I like the black glass and white controls.

Also interesting to point out - the action menu now has contextual menu 'view' items

No more having to open the view options palette for a quick change!

If you look at the screensaver picture, the selection box is cutting off the blue highlight glow. Which is weird, because the selection box is the same size as it is now in 10.4.

Originally Posted by monkeybrain

It's referring to lens flares. Everything will be covered in lens flares.

HAHAHAHA

Originally Posted by ghporter

Thanks, TheoCryst. That would indicate that an 800MHz G4 iBook with enough RAM and disk space would do fine with Leopard. Except I am VERY puzzled about one thing: why is "built in Firewire" so frequently a system requirement? Were there ANY PPC G4s or G5s that came without Firewire?

Because Apple assumes you already own a Mac, and you'll want to transfer your files to the new Mac. It's one of those things they say just so they can cover all their bases.

ghporter · Dec 22, 2006, 10:22 AM

Originally Posted by stefanicotine

Because Apple assumes you already own a Mac, and you'll want to transfer your files to the new Mac. It's one of those things they say just so they can cover all their bases.

That makes an amazing (and somewhat scary) amount of sense. Thanks.

TheoCryst · Dec 22, 2006, 06:33 PM

Originally Posted by stefanicotine

Because Apple assumes you already own a Mac, and you'll want to transfer your files to the new Mac. It's one of those things they say just so they can cover all their bases.

Wow, I never thought of that before. I always assumed that it was just an arbitrary line in the sand to eliminate too-old hardware. Nice!

Mac_X · Dec 23, 2006, 08:20 AM

256 MB of RAM for Leopard? that sounds unrealistic, wasnt it 128 for Panther and 256 for Tiger ?

also; can any one say if Leopard will run "fast" on a G4?

kick52 · Dec 23, 2006, 09:01 AM

Originally Posted by Mac_X

256 MB of RAM for Leopard? that sounds unrealistic, wasnt it 128 for Panther and 256 for Tiger ?

also; can any one say if Leopard will run "fast" on a G4?

it'll be fine. dunno about fast though, and it depends on the clock speed.

some people say more recent versions actualy perform better than more older versions.

fuzzball963 · Dec 29, 2006, 01:43 PM

Leopard should run nice and fast on my MBP 15" with 2 GB RAM and the 256MB x1600 card though

For those of us new to the Mac, what will be the best way to install it while preserving our files and keeping teh snappy in the system? I have 10.4.8 but have never done a full 10.4-10.5 type upgrade.

Any ideas ?

Chuckit · Dec 29, 2006, 03:00 PM

Originally Posted by fuzzball963

For those of us new to the Mac, what will be the best way to install it while preserving our files and keeping teh snappy in the system?

There are three options in the installer:

1) Clean install: Wipes your drive and then installs the system.

2) Archive and install: Moves your old system into a "Previous Systems" folder, puts the new system software in its place and optionally keeps your personal files and settings right where they are.

3) Upgrade: Just replaces your system files with the upgraded versions — basically the same thing Software Update does when you upgrade from 10.4 to 10.4.2.

Upgrade is the simplest way and is usually quite sufficient. If you're worried that you might have installed some third-party system software that might be incompatible, archive-and-install will let you get a completely fresh system without losing any of your personal data.

Anoesis · Dec 29, 2006, 09:40 PM

i heard the new interface is called "Black Cherry"