[JellyBeen]

Here is the keynote : http://events.apple.com.edgesuite.ne...ent/index.html

I'm not getting audio though...anyone confirm this?
Its working in VLC for me ...weird

[Lateralus]

Somebody rip teh stream!!!1111

[Orion27]

Originally Posted by davesimondotcom

Time Machine question - say I have my backup disk set to my external firewire drive on my PowerBook, but when I'm on the road I don't have that disk attached - how does this change things? Does it select a secondary backup drive in the meantime?

Just thinking about scenarios...

Like having Spaces set up so that all your porn is in one space and can be hidden really fast... LOL

iDisk will take your porn collection

[davesimondotcom]

Originally Posted by Orion27

iDisk will take your porn collection

Why would I pay for .Mac when I have more than own Dreamhost account that I can use that costs just a little more per year than .Mac and does a whole lot more?

[Tyre MacAdmin]

Originally Posted by olePigeon

http://news.zdnet.com/2100-3513_22-6102730.html

VMWare is debuting VMWare Server for Mac OS X at WWDC.

Awesome!

That is awsome!!!

[parsec_kadets]

So glad I bought a 250GB FireWire drive a couple months ago. So glad that I can also dump Backup.

Also, not upset at this point yet, but Apple needs to do something about .Mac. Hopefully we'll hear something about that at MWSF.

[ambush]

Leopard != Vista 2.0.

I mean... should I even upgrade?

[Zeeb]

Originally Posted by parsec_kadets

Also, not upset at this point yet, but Apple needs to do something about .Mac. Hopefully we'll hear something about that at MWSF.

Yeah, like make it free? You can almost everything .mac does with free applications. I hope Apple doesn't make many more product features dependent upon an overpriced yearly subscription. Didn't work for aol.

[Rental]

Originally Posted by JellyBeen

Here is the keynote : http://events.apple.com.edgesuite.ne...ent/index.html

I'm not getting audio though...anyone confirm this?
Its working in VLC for me ...weird

Isn't working for me at all. "Due to exceptional demand, try again later!" Ack.

I'm still dissapointed by no new ipod nanos.... no changes to the iMac, and the freakin' huge ass G5 style case. They need to get a smaller form factor. Hell, I don't even NEED 4 cpus.... I'd buy an iMac today if it had a PCI-E slot in it.

[fhoubi]

Microsoft kills Mac version of Virtual PC, quits Visual Basic Scripting in Office for Mac.

[ambush]

TimeMachine: Developers will need to code support for it. It's not "free" with every app. At least, that's my initial guess.

Spaces: I didn't use Exposé; I won't use Spaces. Good ol' Command H does all I need.

iChat: I use adium. Where's the VOIP killer feat.?

Mail: Yeah. OK.

The rest: No Safari update? No Virtualization?

No new iPod? WTF? No iTunes Movie Store? WTF? No Merom? WTF?

[Kerrigan]

Originally Posted by ambush

Leopard != Vista 2.0.

I mean... should I even upgrade?

Ya I agree. This is the first OSX upgrade where I've thought "meh, I'm not going to download the leaked copy. No point"

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by Kerrigan

Ya I agree. This is the first OSX upgrade where I've thought "meh, I'm not going to download the leaked copy. No point"

I bet a cool finder will sell all of you over.

[Dark Helmet]

Some Safari 3.0 features:
http://www.macfixit.com/

idiot lists Private Browsing as a new feature.

[Kerrigan]

Has anything been said about the Finder? What's the deal, is Apple secretly working on it or something?

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by Kerrigan

Has anything been said about the Finder? What's the deal, is Apple secretly working on it or something?

Rumors are it was pulled last minute cuz Steve wanted to keep it a secret.

[ajprice]

This preview is not so much showing a new OS, but rather showing the toys that come with it (iChat, Mail, Dashboard...). Little was said about the Finder, and when it was shown, it looked like 10.4. 10.5 has been announced for launch in Spring, so they have time to finalise Finder 10.5. It was said several times that there was more stuff that wasn't shown today. There's a whole Autumn and Winter to get through before its released, plenty of time yet to show more OS based features.

I'm not worried about what I've seen. If SJ did that preview and then said "and thats it, 10.5 is done and its available now!" then that would be a WTF moment, because to look at its mostly 10.4 with more candy. This was the Developers Conference, the Developers have something to develop for now, and thats fair enough to me. The Finder and the GUI will come some other time.

[ironknee]

i could have used time machine 1 year ago

the keynote felt very very last minute...steve lost his thoughts a few times...the ichat thing with phil felt like an oops...the halo around phil was very apparent...maybe lit the room to much...

and the steve comment about, like apple, it's a roller coster life...

it was very anti vista than pro leopard. secret features, os comparisons, the pc guy...makes me think there is a good chance apple can 1 up vista after vista's debut--go steve go

[Salty]

I'm kinda wondering how something like Time Machine is going to work for someone like me who currently only has a couple gigs left on his small 40 gig HD?

Also Spaces I think is going to be my killer feature, and really is a feature more for pro people and people who would be pros if we had anything to do. Haha. My guess is that a lot of the cool stuff (hopefully) was kept back from developers because they didn't need to know about it. Time Machine makes sense to let Devs know about, and Spaces might have some features that App devs might get something out of knowing how to control or whatever. Mail and iChat, they always talk about those and none of those are features microsoft are likely to rip off any time soon.
Thing is though, if they were designing a new UI it might make more sense to tell developers about it. Unless they're planning on just doing some small alterations towards one unified look or something that will play nice with dev's work so long as they've been using standard APIs

I dono... I'm still pretty disappointed about this year's WWDC. I can't even watch the video yet because the servers are so clogged.

[jfischetti]

Is it me, but does Steve (still) look Ill. He looks gaunt and has really lost his belly and his arms are really thin.

I hope that cancer isn't (still) getting him. I could see why they would keep it a quiet issue..

On the last Keynote in Feb, he seemed really tired, and on this one he relegated a lot of the presentation to others like Phil (who is obviously not sick)

Fingers crossed for Steve's health.

[TETENAL]

Originally Posted by Salty

I'm kinda wondering how something like Time Machine is going to work for someone like me who currently only has a couple gigs left on his small 40 gig HD?

It's not going to work. Isn't that obvious?

[Kerrigan]

How much memory does this thing eat up?

[jaydon34]

heres the direct link got it from digg
http://stream.qtv.apple.com/events/a...06_350_ref.mov

[Lateralus]

All that is a reference link, not a link to the actual movie file.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by TETENAL

It's not going to work. Isn't that obvious?

Time Machine probably is based on a version control mechanism with something like a diff file for each file to allow rolling back changes. These diff files should be very small, and I'm guessing all of them will be rolled into some sort of index or database, maybe even SQL based allowing searches based on file ID (making for fast searching).

Where some of the magic happens is doing this at the OS level ala VMS, so that instead of representing changes in the form of a diff-like patch, they are represented at a lower level (i.e. binary data changed) to allow for rolling back non-text files that can't be represented in the usual sorts of version control/CVS/SVN type mechanisms without simply keeping a hard copy of the file (which is wasteful in space).


The Time Machine page vaguely says that this data can be run on an OS X Server, but it isn't clear whether this data can be saved on another client workstation, or a specified client using some known transfer protocol.

I'm also not clear as to whether the user can create backup exceptions. It doesn't make any sense to backup that 4+ gig DVD image that is just on my Desktop long enough for me to burn into a DVD.

All of this stuff is technically nothing new, despite what Apple would say. Unix file systems used on some servers like the aforementioned OpenVMS file system have had this ability. This will be the first time this feature is introduced to the end-user though.

[besson3c]

Hmmm... maybe my theory is not quite there. Here is how OpenVMS's file system handles versioning:

Every file has a version number, which defaults to 1 if no other versions of the same filename are present (otherwise one higher than the greatest version). Every time a file is saved, rather than overwriting the existing version, a new file with the same name but an incremented version number is created. Old versions are can be deleted explicitly, with the DELETE or the PURGE command, or optionally, older versions of a file can be deleted automatically when the file's version limit is reached (set by SET FILE/VERSION_LIMIT). Old versions are thus not overwritten, but are kept on disk and may be retrieved at any time. The architectural limit on version numbers is 32767. The versioning behavior is easily overridden if it is unwanted. In particular, files which are directly updated, such as databases, do not create new versions unless explicitly programmed.

Maybe Leopard will simply do this sort of thing, and just keep hard copies of each file... That will of course increase disk space consumption rather than just retaining the changes to a file only...

More to learn I guess...

[Kerrigan]

Just a little observation: most of the OSX logos have mirrored the interface elements of the OS. For instance, the first couple of releases were Aqua, then Tiger's logo was brushed metal. Leopard's logo appears to be a glossy black version of the unified theme.

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by Kerrigan

Just a little observation: most of the OSX logos have mirrored the interface elements of the OS. For instance, the first couple of releases were Aqua, then Tiger's logo was brushed metal. Leopard's logo appears to be a glossy black version of the unified theme.

I mentioned a few pages ago that it looked black and shinny metal.

[SamuraiDL]

what no merom? I dont want to buy a macbook pro and set my package on fire... when we gonna see this guys?

[Kr0nos]

Gawd that stream sucks ass. Anybody got a link to a straight DL?

[Apple Pro Underwear]

My take on the events:

• I like the webclips dashboard the best of all.
• I'm happy the Intel transition is done, now we are done with the speculation 4 ever!
• The new spotlight and time machine seem useful


It seems to me OSX is still the star. Vista when it comes out will have similar features but it is clearly playing catch up (catching up with all the pain we were in 2001, 5 years ago). Plus Vista still has the BS stuff like .DLL hell.

I think now is the time for us mac folk to once and for all tell people to switch to OSX rather than upgrade to Vista.

[motoyen]

Originally Posted by jfischetti

Is it me, but does Steve (still) look Ill. He looks gaunt and has really lost his belly and his arms are really thin.

I hope that cancer isn't (still) getting him. I could see why they would keep it a quiet issue..

On the last Keynote in Feb, he seemed really tired, and on this one he relegated a lot of the presentation to others like Phil (who is obviously not sick)

Fingers crossed for Steve's health.

Yeah I noticed that too and it's not like Steve to share the keynote spotlight. I hope he's OK.

[mdc]

Did anyone notice that iChat is now unified, but it is regular unified, not Brushed Metal to Dark Unified like iLife and iTunes?

I am pretty certain Brushed Metal is going away and Unified and Dark Unified are going to take over, but I wonder what applications that are now Brushed Metal are going to become regular Unified or Dark Unified?

[parsec_kadets]

Originally Posted by ironknee

i could have used time machine 1 year ago

the keynote felt very very last minute...steve lost his thoughts a few times...the ichat thing with phil felt like an oops...the halo around phil was very apparent...maybe lit the room to much...

and the steve comment about, like apple, it's a roller coster life...

it was very anti vista than pro leopard. secret features, os comparisons, the pc guy...makes me think there is a good chance apple can 1 up vista after vista's debut--go steve go

The halo thing is common in background differencing, which is what Apple is using here. It can be reduced, but I doubt it's going to go away. If you were able to really zoom in on the video iChat was using, you would have seen that the pixels around Phil didn't really match the bacgroud. They were probably slightly darker. There are ways to adjust the thresholds of which pixels are considered background and which are foreground, but often the ammount varries by scene. Apple may have chosen a general threshold that works somewhat well in all scenes but not perfectly.

What I'm really interested in is to know whether Apple is using averages in their differencing algorithm. I hope they are doing this, because the background will change as the sun moves across the sky and the lighting changes. You don't want to constantly step out of the frame and reset the background (as often as every few minutes if it's dawn or dusk). If they are doing background averaging it will be fun to play with. For example, if you move a coffee mug into the scene and just leave it there it will melt into the background eventually. I guess we'll have to wait and see.

[Amorya]

Originally Posted by rickey939

Odd. That can either be really good news....or really bad.

Draggable tabs...

[Salty]

I think it makes sense for iChat to be a lighter unified. Makes it more consistent with Mail. I imagine iCal will also be lighter unified.

[Brien]

Or, it's because the true interface isn't out yet.

[Landos Mustache]

Originally Posted by Amorya

Draggable tabs...

Why is a tabbed finder the end all to fixing the finder and making vista look stupid? You really think Apple can't do better than that?

I am disappointed in your people.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by Landos Mustache

You really think Apple can't do better than that?

I certainly hope Apple could do better than that, but as far as the Finder is concerned, it is still on version OS 10.0. Apple doesn't exactly have a track record of fixing the finder.

-t

[goMac]

Originally Posted by ambush

Leopard != Vista 2.0.

I mean... should I even upgrade?

You're not at WWDC, are you? That's why you look extremely silly asking why a developer would want to upgrade to 10.5.

Seriously. 10.5 has enough new stuff to make your head spin. Objective C 2.0 with garbage collection and properties. Core Animation. Full 64 bit support. And that's only the publicly released stuff I can talk about.

10.5 has tons and tons of really really great time saving stuff for developers that requires 10.5, along with tons and tons of new features that applications can use. If you're not at the conference, I'd actually wait and look at the full feature list before you make un-informed comments like that.

[Landos Mustache]

Originally Posted by what_the_heck

I certainly hope Apple could do better than that, but as far as the Finder is concerned, it is still on version OS 10.0. Apple doesn't exactly have a track record of fixing the finder.

-t

I'm working on the theory that they have been working on the new finder for a LOOOOONG time so that is why the current one has only got minor updates.

[Landos Mustache]

Originally Posted by goMac

And that's only the publicly released stuff I can talk about.

Uh ya, I'm sure they shared all the secrets with you

Anywho, he is not talking about stuff on a geek level. He means new features that he might actually want and use.

My mom/sister and 90% of my friends do not care about full 64 bit support and all the low level stuff. They want neat new stuff like time machine etc.

With what they showed SO FAR there isn't much to get excited about for many people.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by Landos Mustache

Uh ya, I'm sure they shared all the secrets with you

Anywho, he is not talking about stuff on a geek level. He means new features that he might actually want and use.

My mom/sister and 90% of my friends do not care about full 64 bit support and all the low level stuff. They want neat new stuff like time machine etc.

With what they showed SO FAR there isn't much to get excited about for many people.

They are announcing stuff here at the conference they have not posted publicly, and it is a lot of cool stuff applications will start using. Nuff said. Say what you will, but they don't just announce everything on Monday and have us sit around on our butts the rest of the week. It's not like a new Finder is being shown to us, but there is still lots of cool stuff.

[Landos Mustache]

Originally Posted by goMac

They are announcing stuff here at the conference they have not posted publicly, and it is a lot of cool stuff applications will start using.

Lemmie guess. Universal notepad and core animations.

[Stradlater]

Originally Posted by Apple Pro Underwear

• I like the webclips dashboard the best of all.

Well then, looks like it's your lucky day.

[Gossamer]

Originally Posted by Stradlater

Well then, looks like it's your lucky day.

I'm so happy that I could...well...cry
Thank you so much.

[olePigeon]

http://www.apple.com/macosx/leopard/timemachine.html

That's my favorite.

[ironknee]

Mac numbers question

Steve said last quarter, we had our best mac quarter ever shipping 1.33 million macs

but back at mwsf 2000, steve said they had the best mac quarter shipping 1,350,000 macs.

is my math right? 1,330,000 = 1.33 million

of course steve has that spin since macs gained more users and 3/4 of macs sold were intel....ok ok steve, rock on

[Salty]

I imagine X.5 will be necessary for a lot of pro apps in the future, and iLife updates soon. Though Apple being the crazy nuts they are might just integrate those features into the older OS versions some other ways.
But the fact that any app now is going to be able to access CoreImage stuff easier is a big plus. Though, I don't use that many third party apps that often. I do use enough though.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by Salty

I imagine X.5 will be necessary for a lot of pro apps in the future, and iLife updates soon. Though Apple being the crazy nuts they are might just integrate those features into the older OS versions some other ways.
But the fact that any app now is going to be able to access CoreImage stuff easier is a big plus. Though, I don't use that many third party apps that often. I do use enough though.

Why? I'm not sure I buy the idea that CoreImage and CoreAnimation are worth a developer's time for a substantial number of apps.

The practical potential of these sort of tools (aside from flashy marketing) is to provide a sense of visual feedback, thus adding to the user experience. Obviously, it makes sense for there to be a flip animation in moving to the backside of a widget. This is a creative use of this animation.

However, how many opportunities are there for developers to use this in their applications? The only app that I know of that used this sort of animation to provide feedback is Microsoft in their little inspector pallette. Developing these sorts of features requires time and money. Sometimes that investment can be worth it if the animatino adds a degree of usability. An application window doing a neato starwipe transition just because it looks pretty buys the company very little, and certainly provides very little in terms of usability. Perhaps it would make for a good litlte parlor trick that amuses the user a few times, but it could quickly become a nuisance or distraction over time. That stupid dashboard ripple effect already irritates me.

My point is that I think these sorts of effects will only seldom be used IMHO, and probably only in Mac-only software for the most part (many developers go for complete parity between Windows and Mac versions of their software). It's good that Apple layed down this foundation for looking into the future I suppose, but some of these effects seem completely worthless to me, and I'm not sure what I think about billing this as an end-user feature. For the most part, this buys us very little for right now, and possibly for the forseeable future.

Just my tentative opinion.