[ghporter]

Originally Posted by Biest

it is mommy and daddy that can afford it. Trust me, I have seen so many incoming freshman carry out MBP form the bookstore I was in awe

Let's be a bit more conservative here. Lots of financial aid programs provide laptops-MINE for instance. I'm waiting to hear when my MBP ships as we speak. If a program requires it, a whole lot of aid programs, scholarships and grants provide a computer (and laptops are becoming the choice over desktops everywhere). This is a Good Thing® for everyone.

[fuzzball963]

Mine doesn't require it but I have a good job and have the money saved up to pay for that and tuition so I'm going to get one anyway. I suppose I could waittill after september whenever it is and I may do that but we'll see what happens.

[NateEssex]

Originally Posted by Biest

it is mommy and daddy that can afford it. Trust me, I have seen so many incoming freshman carry out MBP form the bookstore I was in awe

I've witnessed this myself at my local Apple store. I never was that lucky when I was younger.

[Biest]

Originally Posted by ghporter

Let's be a bit more conservative here. Lots of financial aid programs provide laptops-MINE for instance. I'm waiting to hear when my MBP ships as we speak. If a program requires it, a whole lot of aid programs, scholarships and grants provide a computer (and laptops are becoming the choice over desktops everywhere). This is a Good Thing� for everyone.

sry for the comment, I'm aware of these programs, but from what I saw these people weren't poor. It is USC, so there is enough money floating around... and that is what i say as a student

Originally Posted by NateEssex

I've witnessed this myself at my local Apple store. I never was that lucky when I was younger.

The only was I got a PB for college was that I paid half of it and it was combined graduation/birthday/christmas gift

I might be getting a MBP when the Santa Rosa and Leopard roles around, but that only because I have had a total of 2 days free this summer and get stipends for my research

[cag17]

Hmm...Just Ordered my MacBook.
Should be here on thursday...

No 64 Bit, oh well...I'll keep it. I don't see why it would benefit me much...I get the good out of my computers, but I'm not a super-hardcore user.

[Biest]

Originally Posted by cag17

Hmm...Just Ordered my MacBook.
Should be here on thursday...

No 64 Bit, oh well...I'll keep it. I don't see why it would benefit me much...I get the good out of my computers, but I'm not a super-hardcore user.

my guess it that the MB will stay with the Yonah for now and will be updated at MacWorld or a bit later when the MBP get Santa Rosa

[maxx9photo]

I think time to upgrade as soon as my applecare runs out in NOv so this would be a nice new year computer, yeeeehaaaa

[cag17]

Originally Posted by Biest

my guess it that the MB will stay with the Yonah for now and will be updated at MacWorld or a bit later when the MBP get Santa Rosa

Hopefully.

I'm on a 4 Year old P4 Machine , I can't freaking wait to step on into the Apple, and actually have one that is my own.

[Simon]

Originally Posted by Elektrix

You're only going to be disappointing yourself if you are really counting on a full case redesign as well.

It depends what you consider a 'full case redesign'.

I am certainly expecting some modifications: Magnetic latch, easier HDD replacement, trackpad adjustments (to make space for DL optical drives), current location of the lock slot sucks, trackpad button should be able to sense right clicks (like MM) etc.

Why not? The first MBP was obviously very close to the Al PB design. Intel was ready to ship Yonah early, Apple was in hurry, etc. This time around, there has been a lot of time to develop new things or port over ideas implemented for the MB.

I would be very surprised (and somewhat disappointed) to see only a CPU/GPU change or slight motherboard modifications.

[siflippant]

Originally Posted by Simon

It depends what you consider a 'full case redesign'.

I would be very surprised (and somewhat disappointed) to see only a CPU/GPU change or slight motherboard modifications.

I agree

[ghporter]

I think a lot of parents feel that they're "giving their kid all the help they can afford" by getting them a laptop, even when such isn't "required" by their program.

I have the opposite problem: my program doesn't "require" a computer, at least not in the catalog. But it DOES require almost 100% of one's work to be researched, written, compiled and presented on a computer, so that's almost the same thing. Except that my financial aid didn't see it that way and I had to make my case to get a computer-they're getting me a MBP sometime soon. !!!

[panasonic]

Originally Posted by Simon

I would be very surprised (and somewhat disappointed) to see only a CPU/GPU change or slight motherboard modifications.

Call me coward, but for me a minor update would be the greatest option, because otherwise I suppose we would again be looking at a rev A model. I am sure Apple can provide a flawless new design (as with Macbook more or less) but since they've probably managed to identify all major problems with the current design, only a slight modification would almost guarantee a very solid package IMHO.

Of course, if the current design has for example heat related limitations and problems which cannot be fixed with slight changes, a major redesign could be a better option.

[jkwuc89]

I am somewhat patiently waiting for the Merom update for the MBP line and I hope it comes on Sept. 12 so I can make my educational purchase and qualify for the free iPod Nano.

[shecky]

new machines are not included on the rebate for the ipod. read the second page of the rebate form, it only lists current machines.

some argue that they will add the new machines when they are announced, i say they will not as it will be a very brief time between new machines being announced and the rebate ending.

[brokenjago]

Originally Posted by panasonic

because otherwise I suppose we would again be looking at a rev A model.

I am so sick of this "rev A" bullshit. There are hundreds of thousands of perfectly happy MBP owners out there, and for all ones who had problems with the whine or anything else highly publicized, Apple has taken care of them. What's the problem here?

I'm sorry, but seriously, it's getting ridiculous.

[ghporter]

While there's a larger chance of unanticipated problems with any brand new design, I have to agree with brokenjago about this. "Wait for Rev A" makes you wait-sometimes for a long time-needlessly when the odds are that you'll get a perfect machine. And we have to keep in mind that it's seldom that people post "My new computer is absolutely perfect!" They come to this kind of forum to complain about problems and ask for help fixing them. While you can find lots of posts about just about every Apple product having issues, you don't have the counterbalance of people posting that they had NO issues, so using what you see here as a basis to decide not to buy early is not the best course of action.

[Kenstee]

AppleInsider | Merom's thermal specs fail to impress

Looks like I'll be holding off on that MPB purchase for awhile. Too bad.

[justinkim]

O'Grady in his column on ZDNet predicts October/November for Merom:
� More on Merom ship dates | The Apple Core | ZDNet.com

[Simon]

What worries me more than the TDP moving from Yonah's 30W to Merom's 34W, is the fact that when they downclock to 1GHz, Yonah draw 13W, whereas Merom still draws 20W. That's a whooping 54% more even when your MBP's idling. I would have expected better from Intel after all this hype about how concerned they were with the wattage of mobile CPUs.

[evisa]

Originally Posted by Simon

What worries me more than the TDP moving from Yonah's 30W to Merom's 34W, is the fact that when they downclock to 1GHz, Yonah draw 13W, whereas Merom still draws 20W. That's a whooping 54% more even when your MBP's idling. I would have expected better from Intel after all this hype about how concerned they were with the wattage of mobile CPUs.

Forgive me for sounding like a total newbie, but what exactly does this mean for the future of MBPs? It's going to use more power and add to the heat? Fantastic.

[Simon]

It probably means that Apple will have to do some thermal engineering for the new MBP case. It's not as if they would have been running cool with Yonah either. And the case is somewhat dated too (apart form minor changes, the design is very similar to the original Sep 2003 15" PowerBook case).

But OTOH if you're getting 20-30% more performance, you shouldn't be surprised to see a 10% increase in TDP. As I already mentioned, what really sucks is that the idle power draw has increased so much more.

[mduell]

Originally Posted by Simon

What worries me more than the TDP moving from Yonah's 30W to Merom's 34W, is the fact that when they downclock to 1GHz, Yonah draw 13W, whereas Merom still draws 20W. That's a whooping 54% more even when your MBP's idling. I would have expected better from Intel after all this hype about how concerned they were with the wattage of mobile CPUs.

As I mentioned in the other thread, those claims are heresay based on non-public documents, and actual test data disagrees:

[MikeD]

I'm trying hard to wait!! I'm going to have to use my wife's macbook if I can get my hands on it for the next couple of weeks. Also, I believe it was in that appleinsider article about the 'high security' freight shipments. But high security or not, hopefully something will come soon. I was about take the plunge and just get a macbook - but then I thought, these have already been out since May or so. Then I thought about the PowerBook since it's my old 12" PB that it would be replacing, so then here are these Merom updates on the horizon. Is anyone in the same boat I am? This is the first time I've been on the line about a purchase and I've had TONS of macs! I think it's just because I only sorta need the computer. Whereas if I REALLY needed it, I'd go out and get one today. Now I know how a ton of people feel!

[veryniceguy2002]

Originally Posted by MikeD

I'm trying hard to wait!! I'm going to have to use my wife's macbook if I can get my hands on it for the next couple of weeks. Also, I believe it was in that appleinsider article about the 'high security' freight shipments. But high security or not, hopefully something will come soon. I was about take the plunge and just get a macbook - but then I thought, these have already been out since May or so. Then I thought about the PowerBook since it's my old 12" PB that it would be replacing, so then here are these Merom updates on the horizon. Is anyone in the same boat I am? This is the first time I've been on the line about a purchase and I've had TONS of macs! I think it's just because I only sorta need the computer. Whereas if I REALLY needed it, I'd go out and get one today. Now I know how a ton of people feel!

Don't worry, I am waiting for the Merom MBP to replace my almost 4yo PB G4 1GHz (the one that doesn't even have USB2!). I can't even play latest games on that one so I thinkI am more desperate than you are

[iBorg]

Originally Posted by veryniceguy2002

Don't worry, I am waiting for the Merom MBP to replace my almost 4yo PB G4 1GHz (the one that doesn't even have USB2!). I can't even play latest games on that one so I thinkI am more desperate than you are

Ditto! Got my 1 GHz TiBook 11/02, and it seems glacially slow now, but I've been waiting for Merom, and it's almost here ........ C'mon, Apple!



iBorg

[jkwuc89]

I am also resisting the urge to buy now. I certainly hope that Apple announces Merom based MBP's and MB's in September because if they do, I will be one of the first to purchase one. To those of you who are also waiting, if nothing is announced in September regarding a Merom update, how long will you wait before givin in and buying what's currently available?

[Brazuca]

Originally Posted by iBorg

Ditto! Got my 1 GHz TiBook 11/02, and it seems glacially slow now, but I've been waiting for Merom, and it's almost here ........ C'mon, Apple!



iBorg

Amateurs!!

I sold my RevA dual G5 (for space reasons) and am looking to pick up a MBP. Currently I'm using my ancient RevA TiBook (400mhz)!!

My wife is pulling her hair out!!

[kamina]

Originally Posted by mduell

As I mentioned in the other thread, those claims are heresay based on non-public documents, and actual test data disagrees:

Atleast AMD's A64 processors use a bit more power under 64bit operation. The processor has registers which only work when running a 64bit operatingsystem, but then use up a bit more power. Intel's specs rate highest power usage when using normal programs. For Yonah this means 32bit programs, for Merom 64bit. Don't know if this applies in this case, but I would not be suprised.

[freakboy2]

it will run less hot because it's more efficient with the extra cache and thus faster. it is running at full speed less often.

[jkwuc89]

AnandTech's comparison of Core Duo and Core 2 Duo is now online here.

[Simon]

The AnandTech article also points out that Merom is currently bus-limited - often it performs no better than Yonah at the same clock. When the Santa Rosa chipset with an 800MHz FSB arrives next year, power consumption will likely increase. Unless of course Intel manages to develop new power-saving features for the chipset.

[walshb6413]

Hi everyone,
I recently graduated from college and it is also my birthday in a couple of days. I did hint to my parents that a MBP would be nice It will be my first mac, I'm a graphic designer but have been using the PC platform so far.

The problem I have is that my parents have bought me a MBP, it should arrive tommorrow. I was, and still am very excitied, but after the excitement settled, I started to think about the possibilty of the 64bit Merom upgrade and possible case redesign coming soon... So, heres the rub.. I would have waited, but my parents have already bought one... If I dont open it can I return it to the Apple store? Will they charge me a restocking fee? Arg.

Thanks,
B Walsh

[RevEvs]

Originally Posted by walshb6413

Hi everyone,
I recently graduated from college and it is also my birthday in a couple of days. I did hint to my parents that a MBP would be nice It will be my first mac, I'm a graphic designer but have been using the PC platform so far.

The problem I have is that my parents have bought me a MBP, it should arrive tommorrow. I was, and still am very excitied, but after the excitement settled, I started to think about the possibilty of the 64bit Merom upgrade and possible case redesign coming soon... So, heres the rub.. I would have waited, but my parents have already bought one... If I dont open it can I return it to the Apple store? Will they charge me a restocking fee? Arg.

Thanks,
B Walsh

The speed wont be that much greater. The only thing that might annoy you is the redesign.

But once you start using it you wont care - you will love it.

oh, and you cant really complain - your parents just bought you a MBP!

[silver]

Hi all, just read the AnandTech article and to be honest until the Santa Rosa chipset comes out the Yonah holds up pretty well. I jsut ordered my MBP 17" 2.16 from apple w/2gigs from newegg last night and the only thing that would bother me is the shorter render times that Merom has. Now if Adobe and Autodesk could just release UB versions of there software i'd be in heaven. For the mean time I have to keep my G5 around so I can get some work done. What I'd like to see is a test between the 2 chips rendering a 2 million+ polygon scene minimum in Mental Ray w/HDRI and Final Gather.

@RevEvs you mention a case design are you sure that a new one will come out for the Merom? Like you I feel the speed wont be much greater at least until the Santa Rosa chipsets are out with the faster FSB. Then I think a redesign will be in order. Till then those who need a laptop should be just happy with there purchase I know I will.


silver

[Elektrix]

Yeah, I don't know that anyone really expects a major case redesign just for the Merom-updates. At best I think some people are hoping for some tweaks to the current MBP design (in particular to add the same kind of magnetic latch and easily user replaceable hard drive and memory that the MacBook have). But I'm not sure I'd even expect that; I think the point of the Merom update is that they could just slap it in the current MBP.

[silver]

Originally Posted by Elektrix

Yeah, I don't know that anyone really expects a major case redesign just for the Merom-updates. At best I think some people are hoping for some tweaks to the current MBP design (in particular to add the same kind of magnetic latch and easily user replaceable hard drive and memory that the MacBook have). But I'm not sure I'd even expect that; I think the point of the Merom update is that they could just slap it in the current MBP.

I agree, that seems like the most logical approach.

[evisa]

Originally Posted by silver

I agree, that seems like the most logical approach.

But then why would they have taken so long to integrate Meroms into MBPs? A slight redesign seems logical as well, considering the time it's taking Apple to make the switch. I'm just hoping it comes out no later than Sept. 15th, or I'm just buying one - the date to return to college is looming.

[Rev-O]

If the first release of Merom turns out to be not such a big deal compared to Yonah, Apple would be very wise to release Merom with a case redesign. Some degree of case rediesign would get people to buy a new MBP for the case redesign + Merom. Using essentially this same redesigned case with Santa Rosa in 2007 would might be enough to get first gen Yonah MBP owners and latter G4 PB owners to buy MBPs for the faster FSB and even faster Meroms available with Santa Rosa. As a marketing scheme, this makes more sense as it keeps ratching up desirability with each release. The general marketing idea, I would think, is to try to make each notable transition (G4 to Yonah, Yonah to Merom, Merom to Merom w/ Santa Rosa) drool worthy.
Of course, this does not always happen

Perhaps this is just what I want, because I want the Merom MBPs to be drool worthy!

[SamuraiDL]

Apple is not gonna be at expo paris...you all know that though im sure.

[MikeD]

Well, I broke down and got a black macbook. With the EDU disc, and rebates - I'm happy. I was using the logic about me having a dual G5 at home and with adobe apps and MS still not Universal, this will hold me over until they are available (By then, the next chip set should be coming out!) so it's all okay and now I don't have to worry about lost time and productivity.

Mike

[evisa]

Originally Posted by Rev-O

Perhaps this is just what I want, because I want the Merom MBPs to be drool worthy!

Man, I KNOW! Me too, if only to justify my increased frustration and wait time from the original one month to two, to three, ... It better be worth it, or I'm done with this little game Apple's playing. I'd hate to see the new versions come out not soon after though, mocking me...

[Elektrix]

Originally Posted by evisa

Man, I KNOW! Me too, if only to justify my increased frustration and wait time from the original one month to two, to three, ... It better be worth it, or I'm done with this little game Apple's playing. I'd hate to see the new versions come out not soon after though, mocking me...

What "game"? I don't see how Apple is doing anything differently from any other laptop manufacturer in terms of when and how they will be deploying Merom. Most every other manufacturer is just slapping Merom chips in their current notebooks with no other redesigns, etc. (we already know this for sure with the new Sony SZ 3xx line) and they will all probably be releasing them in the same way.

What do you mean you're "done" with this little game Apple's playing? If your criteria is that it "better be worth it", then you might as well be done now, as I doubt there is much worth it to wait just to get a laptop with a Merom in it instead of a Yonah (just as it would be silly for someone to hold off on buying a Sony SZ 2xx series to wait for a Sony SZ 3xx series).

[ghporter]

Apple hasn't said "we're going to release upgraded laptops based on the Merom processor." They are NOT playing any game. They release products on their own timetable, a timetable that they keep to themselves. No game, no "change in release date" or anything like that. Getting upset about this is pretty useless. They MIGHT announce something next month. Or they might not and release a new product anyway. Get over it.

[dimmer]

Merom as it's released has higher power requirements, no noticeable speed bump and cuts RAM in half. 64bit is great for big fat Oracle betadases and some scitech stuff that needs clusters of hunner's of the bad boys: it doesn't run Word better, it doesn't make iTunes smoke crack faster, it, in all honesty, is pointless in a laptop today. Waiting for merom makes no sense unless you want to -really- cook eggs (64 bit eggs?) on a system with a third less battery life. Intel has not lived up to their own hype this time around (of course, it was designed as a blade server CPU, not a notebook CPU, so you gotta give 'em a break).

[inkhead]

I love how everyone here keeps trumping up the 64bit laptops, and how they are waiting to buy them when they come out.

What are you expecting to be different, expect the power consumsion and poorer battery life?

Have ANY of you actually used a 64bit application, vs. a 32bit application, and noticed a performance difference.

You all act like suddenly the 64bit chip is going to run photoshop, or your webbrowser or Final cut pro faster. It's not. and if it does, it will be by a 1/4 of a second, and because of the faster clock speeds.

I personal buy a new laptop everytime apple releases a new one... so i don't have room to talk, but I've used plenty of 64bit machines, and final cut pro on my 32bit macbook pro, SPANKS THE CRAP OUT my 64bit QUAD g5...

[monkeybutler]

Originally Posted by inkhead

I love how everyone here keeps trumping up the 64bit laptops, and how they are waiting to buy them when they come out.

What are you expecting to be different, expect the power consumsion and poorer battery life?

Have ANY of you actually used a 64bit application, vs. a 32bit application, and noticed a performance difference.

You all act like suddenly the 64bit chip is going to run photoshop, or your webbrowser or Final cut pro faster. It's not. and if it does, it will be by a 1/4 of a second, and because of the faster clock speeds.

Or maybe people are acting like their $2000 should be spent as efficently as possible. If $2000 will buy you a 2ghz MBP in late August and $2000 will buy you a 2.5ghz Merom in September then it makes sense to wait.

[evisa]

Originally Posted by monkeybutler

Or maybe people are acting like their $2000 should be spent as efficently as possible. If $2000 will buy you a 2ghz MBP in late August and $2000 will buy you a 2.5ghz Merom in September then it makes sense to wait.

Agreed. The MBP I'm planning on getting costs as much as if not more than my tuition for fall quarter, so of course waiting makes sense. Some things are being read into too deeply.

[Simon]

Lots of misinformation being spread here.

• Yes, 64bit CPUs will not be of benefit to most notebook users. There is however no '64bit performance penalty' either.

• No, 64bit CPUs do not cut RAM in half. Actually, Merom comes with twice the L2 cache of Yonah. In that sense it actually has more 'memory'.

• No, Merom does not seem to use more battery than Yonah




• Merom shows performance increases of up to 15% compared to Yonah. Depending on what tasks you perform you might see no improvement at all. That said, Merom will clock higher than Yonah, so there will be a performance increase thanks to the new design.

• Merom will likely show its true advantages over Yonah when the Santa Rosa chipset arrives in 2007. Currently in many tasks, Merom performance is bottlenecked by the current 667MHz FSB.

• Merom is a drop-in replacement for Yonah. There is no reason not to use it instead of Yonah. There are actually rumors that Yonah will cost *more* than Merom once Merom is released.

[silver]

Thanks for the insight simon. It would be truly cool if the reason Apples taking so long with my order(ordered sunday with a 1-3 ship by date) is because there sticking a merom in the yonah's place...lol one can only hope. Can you believe the matched pair 2gig(2x1gig) sticks from newegg arrived today now just waiting for the MBP 17".


silver

[Brazuca]

I'm not only looking for Merom (because it might help if Leopard has 64bits and development in the future goes that way), but I really want an updated case that supports more memory, has more ports, more battery capacity, faster optical drive, better GPU, etc.

I'm going to spend $2500. I want it to get as much as I can.