Welcome to the MacNN Forums.

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

You are here: MacNN Forums > Community > MacNN Lounge > Political/War Lounge > Conceal Carry, the 2nd Amendment, & Vigilantism

Conceal Carry, the 2nd Amendment, & Vigilantism (Page 37)
Thread Tools
Waragainstsleep
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Sep 27, 2014, 08:27 PM
 
I'm not sure the ones I'm seeing/hearing about are being successfully prosecuted, I just seem to be hearing about more of them at the moment.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
Waragainstsleep
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Sep 28, 2014, 08:43 PM
 
Did anyone see the cop who arrested the fireman because he wouldn't move the truck while they were busy rescuing someone? Your police forces are really starting to look out of control.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
Shaddim
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: 46 & 2
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Sep 28, 2014, 10:49 PM
 
Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep View Post
Did anyone see the cop who arrested the fireman because he wouldn't move the truck while they were busy rescuing someone? Your police forces are really starting to look out of control.
It's a pretty big country and the media is up in everyone's bum right now. Per capita, I doubt it's actually worse than any other time in history.

(That said, as a whole our cops really should receive better training. I don't think 12 weeks of academy is enough, considering the stress and situations they have to deal with.)
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
- Thomas Paine
     
ghporter
Administrator
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: San Antonio TX USA
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Oct 2, 2014, 07:20 AM
 
Around here, my local police and fire departments are pretty much on the same side. Joe Idiot parks his car in front of a fire hydrant and the firefighters need that hydrant, don't be surprised if Joe's car has TWO side windows broken to get the hose to the hydrant. Then he gets ticketed AND towed for parking in front of the hydrant. And his insurance probably won't cover either the windows OR the water damage (those fire hoses don't exactly hold all the water that goes through them...).

The "fireman arrested" thing is such an isolated event that it is newsworthy - for the idiocy of it. But does anyone else remember when news was expected to present "uncommon" and "isolated" events, instead of sort of blogging stuff just to fill space and/or time?

Glenn -----OTR/L, MOT, Tx
     
Waragainstsleep
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Oct 3, 2014, 05:18 AM
 
Originally Posted by ghporter View Post
Around here, my local police and fire departments are pretty much on the same side. Joe Idiot parks his car in front of a fire hydrant and the firefighters need that hydrant, don't be surprised if Joe's car has TWO side windows broken to get the hose to the hydrant. Then he gets ticketed AND towed for parking in front of the hydrant. And his insurance probably won't cover either the windows OR the water damage (those fire hoses don't exactly hold all the water that goes through them...).

The "fireman arrested" thing is such an isolated event that it is newsworthy - for the idiocy of it. But does anyone else remember when news was expected to present "uncommon" and "isolated" events, instead of sort of blogging stuff just to fill space and/or time?
I figured it was a one-off but wondered if it was indicative of cops getting too big for their boots given what seems like a spate of them shooting unarmed people and getting away with it.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
ghporter
Administrator
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: San Antonio TX USA
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Oct 3, 2014, 07:05 AM
 
Or it was about one officer who had no clue what he was doing, nor where his mandate fell in the grand scheme of things. Maybe the fire truck was badly parked, but it's an emergency vehicle and those are exempted while on a call. Or maybe the cop had the idea that his orders to keep the street passable were absolute and not at all flexible. Whatever the case was, he was an idiot for not thinking about it before making an ass of himself publicly. Imagine that - someone making an ass of himself publicly because he didn't stop to think for a few moments first!

Glenn -----OTR/L, MOT, Tx
     
Waragainstsleep
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Oct 3, 2014, 01:59 PM
 
Making an ass of yourself and abusing your authority are evidently not mutually exclusive.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
ghporter
Administrator
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: San Antonio TX USA
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Oct 3, 2014, 08:11 PM
 
Sadly, no it isn't.

Glenn -----OTR/L, MOT, Tx
     
Waragainstsleep
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Oct 4, 2014, 05:48 AM
 
So was he just being dopey, or did he get butthurt because someone failed to obey his orders?

I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
ghporter
Administrator
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: San Antonio TX USA
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Oct 4, 2014, 07:31 AM
 
Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep View Post
So was he just being dopey, or did he get butthurt because someone failed to obey his orders?

Most likely yes, and then YES!!!! I'd put money on him being pretty new, too. Young and inexperienced usually equates to "black and white" thinking and little actual "thinking." This is why junior officers in the Air Force get an experienced Senior NCO assigned to them - it helps keep 'em out of trouble while they learn how things really work, and when this regulation might trump that one.

Glenn -----OTR/L, MOT, Tx
     
subego
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Chicago, Bang! Bang!
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Oct 4, 2014, 01:22 PM
 
Same thing happens in the army.

New officers are strongly encouraged to listen to their senior NCO, despite the fact they outrank them.
     
Shaddim
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: 46 & 2
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Oct 4, 2014, 01:56 PM
 
The life expectancy of a new 2nd LT in the field in Vietnam was a little over 72 hours (they claim 15 minutes, but it was "substantially" better than that).
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
- Thomas Paine
     
ghporter
Administrator
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: San Antonio TX USA
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Oct 4, 2014, 04:31 PM
 
There's a difference between "in theater" and "in combat." You can't teach "when to keep your head down and when to pop it up to look around" in a classroom, and frankly there's little even today that's used to really scare the crap out of young leaders in training, let alone in the 60s and 70s' Army training. 72 hours in-country, with 15 minutes from hitting the ground to dirt nap doesn't sound too far off from my contact with folks who were actually there.

Basic idea: leadership takes development, and you can't teach it in a classroom. (Back on topic) You also can't teach "common sense use of police authority" to someone in the police academy. Sadly, there is not enough stress on community awareness and community policing today (thank those one-way jet passengers 13 years ago for that), and many departments apply far too little low-level accountability to any of their officers - which leads to having to apply VERY harsh actions when those poorly supervised officers screw up really badly.

Glenn -----OTR/L, MOT, Tx
     
Waragainstsleep
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Oct 4, 2014, 08:28 PM
 
Originally Posted by Shaddim View Post
The life expectancy of a new 2nd LT in the field in Vietnam was a little over 72 hours (they claim 15 minutes, but it was "substantially" better than that).
That sounds like an urban myth. There was a reference to the "Twenty Minute-ers" in Blackadder Goes Forth with regards to new pilots in the RAF during WW1.

And remember: "Always treat your kite, like you treat your woman."
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
Waragainstsleep
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Oct 8, 2014, 08:08 AM
 
By jove, I think he's got it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34uTaRvOYg4
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
Shaddim
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: 46 & 2
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Oct 8, 2014, 09:42 AM
 
That's hugely successful here, car dealerships give away free rifles and shotguns with a new car purchase (and a lot of times if you just come in and take a test drive).
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
- Thomas Paine
     
Waragainstsleep
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Oct 8, 2014, 11:22 AM
 
Originally Posted by Shaddim View Post
That's hugely successful here, car dealerships give away free rifles and shotguns with a new car purchase (and a lot of times if you just come in and take a test drive).
I heard a bank did it once too (genius), but those people still have to buy them from distributors or manufacturers which would be banned under Ricky's scheme. I take him to mean that you can make your own but you can't make them and then sell them.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
Shaddim
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: 46 & 2
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Oct 8, 2014, 12:38 PM
 
Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep View Post
I heard a bank did it once too (genius), but those people still have to buy them from distributors or manufacturers which would be banned under Ricky's scheme. I take him to mean that you can make your own but you can't make them and then sell them.
No, no, Remington has been giving them to the dealers as a promotion. They make enough profits from ammo that they could give all their guns away.
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
- Thomas Paine
     
Waragainstsleep
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Oct 8, 2014, 04:46 PM
 
They'd just sell gun cases and include a free gun with every purchase to get around the legislation. Oh well.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
The Final Dakar
Games Meister
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Eternity
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Oct 15, 2014, 12:39 PM
 
"Stand your ground" in South Carolina: Not for abused women in domestic disputes.
Knapp focuses on the case of Whitlee Jones, who killed her boyfriend Eric Lee and claimed that she was acting in self-defense. Earlier that evening, a neighbor called the cops to report Lee assaulting Jones, saying she saw Lee pulling Jones down the street by her hair. Jones fled the scene before the police arrived and returned later to fetch her belongings. Lee confronted her at the scene. She says he shook her, but prosecutors deny it. She stabbed him in the heart, killing him, and fled once more.

"Nearly two years later, a judge found earlier this month that Jones, now 25, had a right to kill Lee under the S.C. Protection of Persons and Property Act, which allows people in certain situations to use force when faced with serious injury," Knapp writes. But the prosecutors are planning to fight the decision because, they argue, "stand your ground" laws should not cover domestic violence situations.

"(The Legislature's) intent ... was to provide law-abiding citizens greater protections from external threats in the form of intruders and attackers," Kidd, the case's lead prosecutor, told The Post and Courier. "We believe that applying the statute so that its reach into our homes and personal relationships is inconsistent with (its) wording and intent."
Jigga what?
     
OAW  (op)
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: May 2001
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Oct 15, 2014, 01:26 PM
 
^^^

That is absolutely insane!

OAW
     
Shaddim
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: 46 & 2
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Oct 15, 2014, 01:39 PM
 
The SC prosecutors are idiots.
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
- Thomas Paine
     
andi*pandi
Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: inside 128, north of 90
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Oct 15, 2014, 02:24 PM
 
so... self-defense is not allowed?

Unless of course self-defense is already covered under some other statute?

I just. Don't even.
( Last edited by andi*pandi; Oct 23, 2014 at 12:44 PM. Reason: misread about the judge)
     
The Final Dakar
Games Meister
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Eternity
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Oct 15, 2014, 02:26 PM
 
Originally Posted by andi*pandi View Post
so... self-defense is not allowed? What idiot made that person a judge?
The judge found in her favor. I think the prosecution wants to appeal or something.
     
The Final Dakar
Games Meister
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Eternity
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Oct 15, 2014, 02:27 PM
 
Originally Posted by Shaddim View Post
The SC prosecutors are idiots.
No quotes from legislators back theming up on this, at least.
     
Shaddim
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: 46 & 2
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Oct 15, 2014, 02:30 PM
 
Originally Posted by andi*pandi View Post
so... self-defense is not allowed? What idiot made that person a judge?

Unless of course self-defense is already covered under some other statute?

I just. Don't even.
The judge got it right, it's the AG/DAs who are wrong. They have a tendency to get enraged when they lose high-profile cases like this, because they make them look like idiots for indicting the person in the first place. So then they double-down on the stupid.
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
- Thomas Paine
     
OAW  (op)
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: May 2001
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Oct 17, 2014, 12:07 PM
 
A Florida man convicted of first-degree murder for shooting a teenager to death over loud music was sentenced to life without parole Friday. Michael Dunn, 47, was convicted of killing Jordan Davis, 17, in November 2012 after he shot into a SUV of four teenagers 10 times when an argument broke out over loud music coming from the teens' vehicle. Dunn was sentenced to an additional 90 years in prison for three attempted murder convictions and another 15 years for firing into an occupied vehicle. “Our justice system works. This case demonstrates that our justice system does work,” said Judge Russell Healey at the sentencing.

Dunn was found guilty on three counts of second-degree attempted murder in January, but a mistrial was declared on the first-degree murder charge. A jury in early October found Dunn, who is white, guilty of murdering Davis, who was black. Testimony during the sentencing, including a statement by Davis' father, Ron Davis, lasted about an hour. Prosecutors did not pursue the death penalty, according to NBC South Florida.
Michael Dunn Sentenced to Life Without Parole for Loud Music Killing - NBC News

OAW
     
BadKosh
Professional Poster
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Just west of DC.
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Oct 23, 2014, 07:41 AM
 
GREAT! This guy was a "JA" to start with. He should have had a Xanax suppository. Maybe that would have kept him in his own car, and he wouldn't be in jail on his 90th birthday.
     
BadKosh
Professional Poster
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Just west of DC.
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Oct 23, 2014, 07:45 AM
 
Anyone near DC been paying attention to DC's newest attempt to ban guns after the original laws were declared unconstitutional? Now the Chief of Police decides who gets CC! You must have a good reason. WTF? also, you can't have a CC until you have the mandatory 18 hours of training, and they haven't figured that part out yet, and have no instructors identified yet. it looks like this attempt will also end up being thrown out by the courts. DC has such idiots on their City council, and it's obvious they aren't upholding the US Constitution. Democrats are like that.
     
The Final Dakar
Games Meister
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Eternity
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Oct 23, 2014, 09:16 AM
 
As much as I'd like to see gun owners trained, that easily gets slapped down by the courts.
     
BadKosh
Professional Poster
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Just west of DC.
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Oct 23, 2014, 10:48 AM
 
I think most RESPONSIBLE gun owners realize the danger of 'going off half cocked' i s a bad idea. My best friend was a US Army trainer and made me know my hand gun before I ever fired it. He made me dis assemble it, clean it and put it together. He made me load all 4 of my magzines AND THEN he showed me the stuff not to do while holding it etc. I now shoot a few mags every other month or so. I really like my Springfield Armory XD45. Next up is my Remington 597.
     
subego
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Chicago, Bang! Bang!
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Oct 23, 2014, 01:34 PM
 
18 hours?

The important basics take about 5 minutes.

1) This is how you work the safety.
2) This is how you load.
3) This is how you unchamber.
4) It doesn't matter that you just unchambered it, consider it still loaded.

5) DO NOT point a loaded gun at anything you don't intend to destroy. Remember... they're all loaded, all the time. See number 3.
6) DO NOT put your finger on the trigger until you have your target in the sights.

Job's done.
     
BadKosh
Professional Poster
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Just west of DC.
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Oct 23, 2014, 03:26 PM
 
A 1911 style weapon still needs good cleaning right out of the box. Most guns need the manufacturing goop cleaned out. Gives you a good chance to see how it works too.
     
subego
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Chicago, Bang! Bang!
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Oct 23, 2014, 03:44 PM
 
Cleaning is, of course, vitally important if you don't want the shit to jam and/or blow up in your face. I'd put that beyond the basics however.

Regardless... that takes, what? An hour?
     
ghporter
Administrator
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: San Antonio TX USA
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Oct 24, 2014, 07:29 AM
 
Obviously the folks running DC want to discourage people with this 18 hour training requirement. That's 2 1/2 days of 8 hour classroom time; more than enough time to teach someone safety, legal issues, safety, marksmanship, safety, and etiquette several times over.

BadKosh is right about every gun needing a good cleaning out of the box. Manufacturers ship new products, especially guns, with rust preventatives, not lubrication, and those rust preventers don't really do what the gun needs to run smoothly. And that first cleaning is a great point for the owner to become familiar with the firearm, inside and out. Anyone who owns a gun should know that gun inside and out, top to bottom, and backward to forward.

Glenn -----OTR/L, MOT, Tx
     
Waragainstsleep
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Oct 24, 2014, 09:52 AM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Cleaning is, of course, vitally important if you don't want the shit to jam and/or blow up in your face. I'd put that beyond the basics however.

Regardless... that takes, what? An hour?
Beyond the basics of use perhaps but the basics of ownership? Surely not.

It might take 5 minutes to explain these basics to someone but it takes a good deal longer to really impart the gravity and responsibility along with them. 5 Minutes is never going to do that and therein lies the problem. There and the reasons behind the fact that people can't have a discussion about the sense of owning and regulating ownership of firearms without people namedropping makes and model numbers like kids that play too much COD.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
Cap'n Tightpants
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Shaddim's sock drawer
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Oct 24, 2014, 11:04 AM
 
An hour sounds right, provided they aren't a complete muppet. I'd say a more comprehensive handling and shooting course should be necessary for a CWP, a good 6 hour course is about right. 18 hours is absurd, that's substantially more than even the military focuses on handguns, I think our police academy requires 10.
"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin,
but by the content of their character." - M.L.King Jr
     
subego
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Chicago, Bang! Bang!
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Oct 24, 2014, 12:32 PM
 
Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep View Post
Beyond the basics of use perhaps but the basics of ownership? Surely not.

It might take 5 minutes to explain these basics to someone but it takes a good deal longer to really impart the gravity and responsibility along with them. 5 Minutes is never going to do that and therein lies the problem. There and the reasons behind the fact that people can't have a discussion about the sense of owning and regulating ownership of firearms without people namedropping makes and model numbers like kids that play too much COD.
If you don't already get the gravity and responsibility of having a gun, a class isn't going to get you over that hump.

The namedropping is because people who shoot enjoy it, and people enjoy talking about things they enjoy.

Regulating ownership gets resistance because it's probably going to be illegal. I'll talk about it all you want.
     
subego
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Chicago, Bang! Bang!
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Oct 24, 2014, 12:34 PM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
An hour sounds right, provided they aren't a complete muppet. I'd say a more comprehensive handling and shooting course should be necessary for a CWP, a good 6 hour course is about right. 18 hours is absurd, that's substantially more than even the military focuses on handguns, I think our police academy requires 10.
Just what do they teach you in a CWP class? Law?

Honest question.
     
Cap'n Tightpants
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Shaddim's sock drawer
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Oct 24, 2014, 01:11 PM
 
2 hours on the range, 2 more for mechanics and learning how to service it, and 2 for handling, laws, and a lecture on responsibility. I think that's reasonable for a CWP.
"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin,
but by the content of their character." - M.L.King Jr
     
subego
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Chicago, Bang! Bang!
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Oct 24, 2014, 01:23 PM
 
Is this more to teach, or for the instructor to suss out who deserves an "F" grade?
     
subego
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Chicago, Bang! Bang!
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Oct 24, 2014, 01:41 PM
 
I guess, in my mind, if you have a gun and don't put in time at the range, you're kind of a ****up.

What's the point of having one and not knowing if you can hit shit with it?
     
subego
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Chicago, Bang! Bang!
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Oct 24, 2014, 02:01 PM
 
Really, everything you listed, except the CWP law part, you should have down before you try and get a permit in the first place.

Hey, teach... can I place out or something?
     
Cap'n Tightpants
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Shaddim's sock drawer
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Oct 24, 2014, 02:50 PM
 
He have a LOT of a people who go down to the sheriff's office with a handgun (still new in the box), looking to get a CWP, who have never even fired one before. Yeah.

Anyhow, it's not really a graded thing, and unless you do something remarkably stupid, like point your gun at someone else during the class (it's happened), you will pass it.
"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin,
but by the content of their character." - M.L.King Jr
     
BadKosh
Professional Poster
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Just west of DC.
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Oct 24, 2014, 03:24 PM
 
Unless you understand that you MAY have to actually kill someone,and take the responsibility for it don't own a firearm. If you don't trust yourself to be level headed when needed don't own a firearm.
     
ghporter
Administrator
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: San Antonio TX USA
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Oct 25, 2014, 08:38 AM
 
In Texas, the curriculum focuses on gun safety, the specifics of Texas' "use of force" statutes, and a specific range program with marksmanship and safety objectives. I do believe an instructor can fail a student for being "not appropriate," but I've never seen any application of that, since the up-front cost of the class tends to weed out idiots in advance.

Texas' statute provides for a specific minimum caliber to qualify with on the range, because it was felt that using a "minimum self defense caliber" would give the range session a particular "minimum difficulty level." The caliber was changed from 9mm/.380 to .32 a few years ago with the advent of some rather impressive .32 caliber revolver rounds, but my read of the law seems to say a .32 ACP pistol would qualify.

Glenn -----OTR/L, MOT, Tx
     
Waragainstsleep
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Oct 25, 2014, 02:17 PM
 
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
subego
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Chicago, Bang! Bang!
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Oct 25, 2014, 03:47 PM
 
I'm sure I've said this already, but I'll say it again.

Freedom has a price.
     
Waragainstsleep
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Oct 25, 2014, 05:44 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
I'm sure I've said this already, but I'll say it again.

Freedom has a price.
Only the freedom to play with guns.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
subego
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Chicago, Bang! Bang!
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Oct 25, 2014, 06:57 PM
 
Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep View Post
Only the freedom to play with guns.


Name a freedom you think is worth having which doesn't exact a price.
     
 
Thread Tools
 
Forum Links
Forum Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Top
Privacy Policy
All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:37 PM.
All contents of these forums © 1995-2017 MacNN. All rights reserved.
Branding + Design: www.gesamtbild.com
vBulletin v.3.8.8 © 2000-2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.,