Welcome to the MacNN Forums.

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

You are here: MacNN Forums > Community > MacNN Lounge > Political/War Lounge > Crazy theory: Trump will fuel Sanders-esque political movement

Crazy theory: Trump will fuel Sanders-esque political movement
Thread Tools
besson3c
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: yes
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 22, 2017, 05:54 PM
 
I was at the women's march in Toronto which had 60k people, and have been intrigued in seeing these massive groups appearing all over the US and abroad.

Time will tell whether this movement will sustain itself or whether it will fizzle out like Occupy. There certainly wasn't a very focused message at my rally, it ran the gamut of liberal causes, but the common thread was a basic desire for empathy, decency, and equality.

As I've said before, I think there is a real empathy deficiency among Trump supporters, and Trump fuels this with his behavior and rhetoric. I think there is a real possibility that a large number of traditional democrats and republicans will see that and feel that, and feel at home with a movement like this. If we're being honest, there is no equivalency to the right and left on issues like:

- support of LGBT issues
- climate change
- womens issues
- police brutality of blacks
- access to health care

etc. Also, Trump's success was largely due to a fairly new brand of economic populism that I would argue is pretty new to the party (replacing trickle down economics). If he screws this up and destroys the trust of the people that reluctantly voted for him (as I predict he will), I think the Republican party will be in pretty rough shape with little left to stand on.

So, I think in the next presidential election we might see two parties that look much different. Perhaps a left-wing resembling the politics of Bernie Sanders, and the right-wing resembling the (hopeful) remnants of the alt-right. Of course there will still be traditionalists on both sides as well.

I really feel like Trump's election was a real galvanizing force to the left, a very harsh rude awakening, and America's left and right parties are in the process of reinventing themselves.

I just hope this alt-right thing doesn't last.
( Last edited by besson3c; Jan 22, 2017 at 06:31 PM. )
     
Doc HM
Mac Elite
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: UKland
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 22, 2017, 06:29 PM
 
I guess it depends on where the anger that will result from Trumps failure to deliver on most of his promises, gets directed. In four years when things are broadly the same, jobs are still outsourced, the wall isn't built and people are still feeling marginalised, only now they hate trump too, it could go really quite runny.
Perhaps the easiest thing for him to achieve will be the dismantling of Obamacare? Easy to break, but Trump may find it impossible to create anything in it's place.
This space for Hire! Reasonable rates. Reach an audience of literally dozens!
     
subego
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Chicago, Bang! Bang!
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 22, 2017, 07:25 PM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
As I've said before, I think there is a real empathy deficiency among Trump supporters, and Trump fuels this with his behavior and rhetoric.
The (ahem) elephant in the room is the Democrats have a winning deficiency.

The reason they're deficient? They think the problem is Republicans.
     
besson3c  (op)
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: yes
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 22, 2017, 07:28 PM
 
The problem is surely partially their strategies too, no doubt, but I think at this point I'm inclined to believe that if it were Sanders vs. Trump Sanders would be president today.
     
Waragainstsleep
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 22, 2017, 11:08 PM
 
I'm not so sure about that.
The Hillary hate campaign certainly has a lot to answer for but most of the backlash against her was just lies. They were given an excuse and they duly ate it all up just like our Brexiters. The election was won by people with terrible judgement who were convinced they would be made better off. Sanders might have represented a change that some Trump voters could get behind, but I can't help but think the hate campaign against socialism has been running among Republicans a lot longer than the one against Hillary, even if its not so hateful these days. Those same voters would still have concluded that they would have more cash under Trump (I still have yuge doubts myself) than Sanders who wants to take more from them to pay for everyone to go to college or whatever as far as they understand things.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
besson3c  (op)
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: yes
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 23, 2017, 12:07 AM
 
Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep View Post
I'm not so sure about that.
The Hillary hate campaign certainly has a lot to answer for but most of the backlash against her was just lies. They were given an excuse and they duly ate it all up just like our Brexiters. The election was won by people with terrible judgement who were convinced they would be made better off. Sanders might have represented a change that some Trump voters could get behind, but I can't help but think the hate campaign against socialism has been running among Republicans a lot longer than the one against Hillary, even if its not so hateful these days. Those same voters would still have concluded that they would have more cash under Trump (I still have yuge doubts myself) than Sanders who wants to take more from them to pay for everyone to go to college or whatever as far as they understand things.

But my point is that I think there are far more people who resonate positively with messages of populism and equality and there are negative messages against socialism.
     
Waragainstsleep
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 23, 2017, 10:46 AM
 
It wasn't long ago that socialist was a very dirty word to conservatives. It seems less hated now for sure. Could this be due to the ACA? Can't think what else it would be.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
The Final Dakar
Games Meister
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Eternity
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 23, 2017, 11:00 AM
 
Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep View Post
It wasn't long ago that socialist was a very dirty word to conservatives. It seems less hated now for sure. Could this be due to the ACA? Can't think what else it would be.
Time. The USSR has been gone 25 years. We now have voters that know about it through history books only.
     
Waragainstsleep
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 23, 2017, 02:33 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
Time. The USSR has been gone 25 years. We now have voters that know about it through history books only.
I guess, but its not like the right to let one of its favourite staples fade away. Especially given their greater appeal among the older generation who o remember the USSR.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
besson3c  (op)
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: yes
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 23, 2017, 02:50 PM
 
Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep View Post
It wasn't long ago that socialist was a very dirty word to conservatives. It seems less hated now for sure. Could this be due to the ACA? Can't think what else it would be.
Socialism was a focal point to the campaigns against Obama, which clearly didn't gain enough traction. If Obama had a scandal like Hillary's email thing they would have surely used that instead.
     
The Final Dakar
Games Meister
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Eternity
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 23, 2017, 04:48 PM
 
Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep View Post
I guess, but its not like the right to let one of its favourite staples fade away. Especially given their greater appeal among the older generation who o remember the USSR.
Can't scaremong an enemy that no longer exists.
     
P
Moderator
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Gothenburg, Sweden
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 24, 2017, 09:02 AM
 
As for the socialist thing, I think it has been overused and no longer has the power it once did. Rightwingers have called everything except themselves socialist at this point. In particular I think that its use against Obama, who is far from the left wing of the Democrats, robbed the term of what power it might have had left.

In general, the marches show every sign of being the start of something like the Tea Party was after 2008: People organize in opposition to the new order, and are then accepted as part of the opposition party. They key will be how well they do in 2018 - if that becomes a wave election like 2010 was, Dems can win back some offices on the state level and rebuild from there (I think the House is too well gerrymandered to be threatened in 2018, and the Senate map looks problematic with so many Dems up for re-election).
The new Mac Pro has up to 30 MB of cache inside the processor itself. That's more than the HD in my first Mac. Somehow I'm still running out of space.
     
   
Thread Tools
 
Forum Links
Forum Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Top
Privacy Policy
All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:10 PM.
All contents of these forums © 1995-2017 MacNN. All rights reserved.
Branding + Design: www.gesamtbild.com
vBulletin v.3.8.8 © 2000-2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.,