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Taking stock of the Republican party
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besson3c
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Mar 4, 2016, 12:03 PM
 
The rhetoric and extreme non-compromising political approach some would say has encouraged a rise of extreme groups ala Oregon and Cliven Bundy:

http://www.newsweek.com/2016/02/12/r...ts-422743.html

We have a nominee that the establishment can't control and maybe attempt to remove with convention stunts (likely resulting in Trump running as an independent).

We have a country in a cultural war with itself, and some republicans even saying that they'd prefer Bernie Sanders to Trump as a politician that recognizes the dangers of supporting the establishment.

It's not rosy on the Democrat side either, so I'm not thumbing my nose from party to party, but suggesting at this point that the Republican Party in particular needs a reset a little more despretely.

What to do? At this point one would be hard pressed to suggest the Republican Party isn't in peril and that some big changes aren't necessary.
     
besson3c  (op)
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Mar 4, 2016, 03:56 PM
 
Without confronting this, I see no way for them to win presidential elections, and we definitely need a moderating influence on politics in the classic right wing ideals of lower taxes, smaller government, etc.

We just need to purge the whack-a-doodle stuff going on.
     
BadKosh
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Mar 5, 2016, 09:49 AM
 
The GOP has no track record because thy haven't done ANYTHING they promised. The Democrats have a history of incompetence, lying, and hypocrisy. Pick one. The left doesn't have anything like a Constitutionalist, but excels in hand wringing emotion driven or selfish driven agendas.
     
Waragainstsleep
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Mar 5, 2016, 03:50 PM
 
They need to separate the notions like fiscal conservatism, smaller government, etc from the religious nonsense and blind racism which is so intertwined with all the batshit craziness.
Trouble is if they do that, they won't have the clout to beat the Democrats any more. They need to find a way to make that separation and simultaneously attract some Dems over to their side.
If they can come up with some genuinely fair and equal policies in terms of ethnicity, sexuality, religion perhaps to do with welfare, healthcare and the minimum wage, they might stand a chance, but they'll need to completely re-brand because I'm sure that to many Dems, the words "I'm a Republican" mean "I'm either an asshole or an idiot", and who wants to sign up for that?
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
besson3c  (op)
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Mar 5, 2016, 08:17 PM
 
Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep View Post
They need to separate the notions like fiscal conservatism, smaller government, etc from the religious nonsense and blind racism which is so intertwined with all the batshit craziness.
Trouble is if they do that, they won't have the clout to beat the Democrats any more. They need to find a way to make that separation and simultaneously attract some Dems over to their side.
If they can come up with some genuinely fair and equal policies in terms of ethnicity, sexuality, religion perhaps to do with welfare, healthcare and the minimum wage, they might stand a chance, but they'll need to completely re-brand because I'm sure that to many Dems, the words "I'm a Republican" mean "I'm either an asshole or an idiot", and who wants to sign up for that?

I agree. I'm not sure it is clear to many how much work will be needed to make this reset, or if there is consensus that this reset is even necessary. I guess time will tell, but I'm not sure that losing an election will be all that is necessary.
     
Dork.
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Mar 5, 2016, 11:07 PM
 
I miss Newt....
     
besson3c  (op)
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Mar 5, 2016, 11:14 PM
 
What's up Dork.? Haven't seen you around here in a long time. The Mets are poised to have a pretty kick ass year, huh?
     
Dork.
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Mar 5, 2016, 11:17 PM
 
The Mets have expectations this year, and that's scary. Almost as scary as the GOP.
     
besson3c  (op)
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Mar 5, 2016, 11:19 PM
 
The GOP is like a shitty version of Bortolo Colon: old, weird looking, and... that's all I have, I guess it isn't a very good analogy, but it's my thread so I'm allowed to say what I want.
     
Dork.
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Mar 5, 2016, 11:22 PM
 
Naw, Bartolo is awesome. He is in unbelieveable shape. (As in, I can't believe a professional athlete can have that shape).

The GOP is more like Chase Utley. Dirty, embarassing, and ruining the game for everyone else.
     
besson3c  (op)
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Mar 5, 2016, 11:37 PM
 
Originally Posted by Dork. View Post
Naw, Bartolo is awesome. He is in unbelieveable shape. (As in, I can't believe a professional athlete can have that shape).

The GOP is more like Chase Utley. Dirty, embarassing, and ruining the game for everyone else.

Plus Donald Trump sucks.
     
Dork.
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Mar 5, 2016, 11:56 PM
 
Trump is the smartest guy in the room. He understands that the primary process is really a reality TV show. Everyone else is acting like politicians, he's acting like a TV personality. Nobody likes politicians, but lots of people watched The Apprentice.

I'm not sure if he knows what he's going to do on the odd chance he wins. Something tells me that he would lose interest after 6 months, resign, and hand it off to his VP. After all, what gives you more power: being President, or being the guy who hand-picked the President?
     
besson3c  (op)
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Mar 6, 2016, 12:13 AM
 
What do you think will happen with the party?
     
Cap'n Tightpants
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Mar 6, 2016, 02:02 AM
 
Originally Posted by Dork. View Post
Trump is the smartest guy in the room.
"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
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but by the content of their character." - M.L.King Jr
     
P
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Mar 6, 2016, 06:27 AM
 
Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep View Post
They need to separate the notions like fiscal conservatism, smaller government, etc from the religious nonsense and blind racism which is so intertwined with all the batshit craziness.
That is what happens when a party fractures. The American parties are alliances of people who do not particularly agree, but are on the same side to win elections. Parties fracture when those disparate groups can't agree enough to stay on the same side any more. There are discussions that this is happening to the GOP now. If Trump wins the primary, then I think it is clear that the party is cracking. If Cruz wins, they might stumble along - they will lose the general, but they've lost general elections before and survived.
The new Mac Pro has up to 30 MB of cache inside the processor itself. That's more than the HD in my first Mac. Somehow I'm still running out of space.
     
OreoCookie
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Mar 6, 2016, 07:48 AM
 
Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep View Post
They need to separate the notions like fiscal conservatism, smaller government, etc from the religious nonsense and blind racism which is so intertwined with all the batshit craziness.
That'd certainly be one way. But then they'd have to accept to be the junior partner in coalitions for the foreseeable future. That's not a very attractive prospect in a winner-takes-all system, but if Trump becomes the official Republican candidate, it becomes unavoidable.

A lot of old demarcation lines will cease to work in the near future (e. g. acceptance of gays and lesbians), and elections (especially the presidency) can no longer be won by securing the “white vote”. What used to be socially liberal has become the new normal amongst young people.

One other big burden is that right now Republicans position themselves as being against something, against gay marriage, Obama, Obamacare and Hillary Clinton. IMHO if the Republicans 2.0 want to be a thing, they have to distinguish themselves by picking an issue that's positive and where they work hard contributing something. Personally, I don't think fiscal conservatism will be the big magnet for new voters. No matter what topic they pick, they have to earn their reputation, though. It'll be hard, but it's a huge chance to walk back from some of the blunders of the recent past.
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
     
Cap'n Tightpants
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Mar 6, 2016, 08:08 AM
 
Originally Posted by P View Post
If Cruz wins, they might stumble along - they will lose the general,
You also underestimate how much the American people loathe Hillary (and for good reason), the only person in the race with a higher disapproval rating is Trump. It wouldn't be easy for Cruz, not as easy as Rubio, but it would be anyone's race.
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Waragainstsleep
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Mar 6, 2016, 09:21 AM
 
I think you probably overestimate the success of the 20 year hate campaign. Its clearly succeeded in conditioning a few people but I bet most stopped taking any of it seriously about 19 years ago.

Maybe thats why she hasn't been locked up for emailing WMDs to ISIS, so many cries of wolf that no-one will believe it if she actually does do something wrong.

Anyway, lets not have yet another Hilary-bashing thread. We've established your fondness for her.


I don't see Trump stepping down no matter how bored he gets. According to the only opinions he will care about, the POTUS is the most powerful man in the world. Thats not a title he's going to relinquish any sooner than he has to. Just look how insecure the man is. Everything he does is ego driven. I can't think of a bigger ego boost than that, can you?

If he wins the nomination, can the Republicans boot him out or are they stuck with him?

I'm thinking if they booted Trump, then split along the aforementioned lines of worthwhile politics and batshit crazy religious hatred, then Bernie might be the key to splitting the Dems. On the one hand, now is the time because I'm not sure Bernie can keep it up another 5-10 years and because the Republican field is so abysmal that Bernie supporters will happily back Hilary over any of them for the most part. I think its probably too late in the game though.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
P
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Mar 6, 2016, 10:48 AM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
You also underestimate how much the American people loathe Hillary (and for good reason), the only person in the race with a higher disapproval rating is Trump. It wouldn't be easy for Cruz, not as easy as Rubio, but it would be anyone's race.
Have you changed your mind, then? I thought we agreed a while back that the EC map made a Cruz victory impossible.
The new Mac Pro has up to 30 MB of cache inside the processor itself. That's more than the HD in my first Mac. Somehow I'm still running out of space.
     
Dork.
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Mar 6, 2016, 03:02 PM
 
Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep View Post
I don't see Trump stepping down no matter how bored he gets. According to the only opinions he will care about, the POTUS is the most powerful man in the world. Thats not a title he's going to relinquish any sooner than he has to. Just look how insecure the man is. Everything he does is ego driven. I can't think of a bigger ego boost than that, can you?
You're thinking as if Trump is a politician. He's not, he's a businessman and media personality. When it gets to the nitty-gritty of governing, and he realizes that he can't just get a wall built because he wants it, he'll realize that there's not really a lot the President can get done without a willing Congress. Media Personalities know how to manipulate the general public very well, but he cant use the same tactics to manipulate Congress.

If he can't get anything done, then why not let his VP do the job for him? (And then he can start making the really big international business deals, knowing that if he runs into any regulatory snafus he can just call his friend in DC who owes him big time for giving him his job.
     
Dork.
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Mar 6, 2016, 03:05 PM
 
Originally Posted by Dork. View Post
Trump is the smartest guy in the room.
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
This is the room with Ted Cruz and Marco Rubio in it. And that guy from Ohio that no one remembers inviting. It's not like the competition is that big. This is why I miss Newton Leroy Gingrich, Ph.D. . Newt would have been able to eviscerate Trump in a debate without stooping to his level.
     
Cap'n Tightpants
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Mar 6, 2016, 04:22 PM
 
Originally Posted by P View Post
Have you changed your mind, then? I thought we agreed a while back that the EC map made a Cruz victory impossible.
Clinton's unfavorability passed Cruz's.
"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin,
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Cap'n Tightpants
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Mar 6, 2016, 04:38 PM
 
Originally Posted by Dork. View Post
This is the room with Ted Cruz and Marco Rubio in it. And that guy from Ohio that no one remembers inviting. It's not like the competition is that big. This is why I miss Newton Leroy Gingrich, Ph.D. . Newt would have been able to eviscerate Trump in a debate without stooping to his level.
In the Idiocracy, where "reality" TV is the most watched spectacle, and no one can tell (or even cares) when kayfabe is broken, smearing reigns supreme. Trump would simply mock Newt, the crowds would cheer, and then they'd forget he exists. Your assumption is predicated on society being the same as when Gingrich was active, it isn't.

We're only one generation from President Dwayne Elizondo Mountain Dew Herbert Camacho.


aka. Kanye
"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin,
but by the content of their character." - M.L.King Jr
     
Chongo
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Mar 6, 2016, 05:12 PM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
You also underestimate how much the American people loathe Hillary (and for good reason), the only person in the race with a higher disapproval rating is Trump. It wouldn't be easy for Cruz, not as easy as Rubio, but it would be anyone's race.
Originally Posted by P View Post
Have you changed your mind, then? I thought we agreed a while back that the EC map made a Cruz victory impossible.
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
Clinton's unfavorability passed Cruz's.
Hillary has core supporters like Trump. They're the same type that voted for Lyndon LaRouche while he sat in a jail cell.
     
P
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Mar 6, 2016, 07:00 PM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
Clinton's unfavorability passed Cruz's.
In the last three months? What states will Cruz now win that he wouldn't before?
The new Mac Pro has up to 30 MB of cache inside the processor itself. That's more than the HD in my first Mac. Somehow I'm still running out of space.
     
Waragainstsleep
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Mar 6, 2016, 07:30 PM
 
I don't think he cares about getting anything done. Look at the level of his insecurity/ Apart from all the compensating he's always done building huge towers and such, he actually started a discussion about penis size during a political debate. Then theres the hilarious anecdote about his short fingers which he has been obsessing about for 20 years or more (See John Oliver).
I don't see him getting bored of spending his days telling his mirror that he's the most powerful man in the world over and over. Ever.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
BadKosh
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Mar 7, 2016, 08:22 AM
 
The Democrats are still wearing their sphincters as neckties. With the Email server guy getting immunity and the Email/Clinton investigation widening to include the Clinton Foundation, she's doomed. But Shhhhhh, lets not let the Low IQ voters know.
( Last edited by BadKosh; Mar 7, 2016 at 08:34 AM. )
     
   
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