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You are here: MacNN Forums > Hardware - Troubleshooting and Discussion > Mac Desktops > Will new PMs that ship with 10.2 come with OS9?

Will new PMs that ship with 10.2 come with OS9?
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Dan Szwarc
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Jul 30, 2002, 12:16 PM
 
We know that Jaguar retail does not come with OS9. Do we know if the powermacs that ship with 10.2 will come with it?

Even worse (better?). I wonder if the new PMs will even all BOOTING into OS9. Bye bye OS9, if it don't run in classic, it don't run on a Mac!

I guess we'll start seeing 9.2.2 cds on ebay!
Dan
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DNA man
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Jul 30, 2002, 01:54 PM
 
Are we really sure that Jag doesn't come with OS9.2.2. I hope so since I still have a more than a few hundred quids worth of software that needs OS9. I figure the new hardware will still run OS 9 for now but *maybe* the OS9 software will not be installed when shipped!
     
DESTRO
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Jul 30, 2002, 02:48 PM
 
so let me get this strait, when i cant throw something away in osx, i can no longer boot in 9 to take care of it. "sorry those dumb files left over from that junk you trashed have system level ownership." your out of luck, or can we hope that apple got it right for once. not likely, lets hear it for pissed off users with less control, bah. OS 9.1 for ever baby. charge me an extra $129 just to get me pissed, no thanks mr jobs.
     
Dan Szwarc  (op)
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Jul 30, 2002, 04:52 PM
 
Uh, I don't think you will lose OS9 if you have it installed, but there is just no NEW version of OS9.

At least, nothing on Apple's site indicates that 10.2 will come with it.

I'm sure you can still install it if you own it.
Dan
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cdhostage
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Jul 30, 2002, 07:04 PM
 
I wonder if the hardware itself will be capable of running 9. If it's a serious update, 9 may not be able to handle it without another update.
Certainly DDR RAM, faster Firewire, USB 2, integrated Bluetooth.... anything else....? will all require their own little updates.

The question is whether Apple will devote any serious work to 9 de4velopent. I think not. It's gone bye-bye.

Maybe a 9.2.3 will be released that can allow you to delete files and such when you boot up from the CD, but you won'ty be able to uez all yoiur wonderful little toys. I bet that you won't even be able to install it without a hack.
Actual conversation between UCLA and Stanford during a login on early Internet - U: I'm going to type an L! Did you get an L? S: I got one-one-four. L! U:Did you get the O? S: One-one-seven. U: <types G> S: The computer just crashed.
     
Superchicken
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Jul 30, 2002, 07:43 PM
 
Until Quark goes OS X I REALLY Don't see apple killing 9 from compatability with new equipment. Maybe not enabling bluetooth and what not. But they're not gona tell Quark Developers "switch to inDesign or we cut you off and you have to use windows!"
that'd just be moronic. Once Quark goes OS X, I think all the major Mac developpers will have gone X... or at least once apple releases Logic for OS X too so the sound users don't get pissed.

Basically we need to remember NOT every app is OS X native yet and apple doesn't want to piss off any companies other than MS right now.
     
mikerally
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Jul 31, 2002, 06:58 PM
 
It looks like that Mac OS X v10.2, the Retail Upgrade, will not ship with a copy of Mac OS 9 included in the box, from what I read on Apple's site.

This does not mean you cannot use Mac OS 9 along with Mac OS X v10.2.
What it does mean, is that if you wish to continue using Mac OS 9, whether booting directly into Mac OS 9 or using it through the Classic Environment - you will need to own your own copy of Mac OS 9.
This can be installed before or after you install Mac OS X v10.2.

Since Apple no longer sell Mac OS 9 on it's own anymore, you can expect that you will not be able to buy it - unless you buy it refurbished or second hand.

I am sure however, Apple will continue to support Mac users by continuing to bundle a copy of Mac OS 9 with new Macintosh computers.

So what OS will new Macs boot into when first turned on, when Mac OS X v10.2 comes out? The answer, is same OS they currently boot into now - Mac OS X - they will boot into Mac OS X v10.2 instead of v10.1, which they boot into now. You can always choose to regress into Mac OS 9 via the Startup Disk Preference Pane.

So what's the future for Mac OS 9? Well it's gonna get phased out, that's for sure, but it's going to be a long long time until you will see it disapear - and even when they stop pre-installing Mac OS 9 onto new Macs, you probably will continue to see Mac OS 9 CDs bundled with the machines for those who need it.
     
tomra
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Jul 31, 2002, 08:27 PM
 
Hi.

What about the differences in ROM versions?
New mac`s always comes which an upgraded ROM version...don`t they? Would`nt this render existing OS.9.x CD`s useless?

Tom.
     
Dan Szwarc  (op)
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Jul 31, 2002, 09:43 PM
 
No being able to boot into OS9 would suck the big a$$. I think we'll see a version of 9.2.3 to support booting. You won't be able to buy it though. It will come with the new PowerMacs Only.

The MWSF PMs will not support booting into OS9, I betcha. Two years after the premiere of OSX seems right.
Dan
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Colonel Panic
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Jul 31, 2002, 10:10 PM
 
ALL NEW MACS come with 9, so in theory everyone buying the upgrade already has 9 unless they got a Mac from 1999 with 8.6 and never upgraded.

Given that, I don't see why Apple should throw in 9 with 10.2 since virtually all upgrade purchasers already have it. Bummer if you are getting X for the first time from a pre-2000 machine andnever upgraded to X but that has to be a small group.

I could see being upset if new Macs weren't coming with 9 but AFAIK they are.
     
OldManMac
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Jul 31, 2002, 10:16 PM
 
Why is everyone getting their panties all bunched up, speculating as to what disaster is going to happen when Jaguar ships? Why don't we wait until it ships and then deal with whatever happens?
Why is there always money for war, but none for education?
     
beb
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Jul 31, 2002, 10:20 PM
 
I hate Quark. They showed off QuarkXpress 5 for Mac OS X at Macworld NY last year. I have yet to see it. I'm sick of waiting. QuarkXpress (codewise) is not a big program. I don't see why Adobe or Macromedia does not buy the company outright.

Considering that Quark's only real asset is Xpress and that they sold less than 25% of the expected sales they were predicting -maybe Adobe and Macromedia have some collective common sense.

Whatever InDesign 2 was lacking, version 2.5 or 3 will fix. I've used both QuarkXpress 5 and InDesign 2. InDesign 2 has my vote. I'd even wager that Adobe has had Acrobat Distiller 5.1 ready and carbonized for Mac OS X for some time now. I'll betcha they built it upon an updated 10.2 codebase in order for it to work.

Mac OS 9 is dead. After using OS X for about eleven months now I can say that I don't miss it. By the way, enabling and logging in as root allows you to do anything, install fonts into the system library, delete unwanted desktop folders, delete install files, allow you to put system preferences app into a utilities folder right inside the applications folder (where it belongs) and many other wonderful things.

Its all upward and outward from here.
     
Superchicken
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Aug 1, 2002, 01:47 AM
 
two years from it's release sure. But the thing is... OS X when it was released was NOT ready for ANYONE to switch to.
it was a nice thing to keep people from jumping off Apple when OS 9 development stopped, it was a chance to get developers to start making code for a working copy, it was in all essense a developer's release really. X.1 fixed that, it's right now worthy ofbeing worked on, and OS X.2 will be th efinal nail in the coffin of OS 9.
But KILLING it now... competely?
While I can see apple having the balls to do it... I don't think it'd be good.
2 years after OS X.1 that I can beilive.
     
tomra
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Aug 1, 2002, 05:04 AM
 
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Originally posted by KarlG:
<strong>Why is everyone getting their panties all bunched up, speculating as to what disaster is going to happen when Jaguar ships? Why don't we wait until it ships and then deal with whatever happens?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Well, yeah, you`re right, but while we wait...why not revert to some good old fun speculation

Tom.
     
david.burney
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Aug 5, 2002, 03:27 PM
 
Here is the way I understand it. This is mostly from rumor, but it seems rather logical...and given Apple's attitude lately, I think this is how things will pan out.

- No OS 9 with Jaguar.
- New PM's WILL NOT be able to boot into OS 9, only run Classic.
- As far as OS 9 shipping on newer PM, I think if it were up to Apple they would NOT put OS 9 on the newer machines and force a migration to OS X...but given the fact that many of us still use OS 9 at least a little here and there, I can't see them pulling it completely.

Now, I've found that for the most part, I have no reason to boot into 9, not even to fix OS X problems. Permissions and such can be corrected with a variety of good third party software(and it's actually easier than rebooting!). About the only thing that will be made more difficult by this will be the ability to hack new things into the GUI, like boot panels and multi-user screens, etc. And even then, only if you have a brand new PM, which aren't even released yet. Sheez...all this commotion over such a small detail
     
saru boy
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Aug 5, 2002, 09:13 PM
 
I guess you've all decided that the next PowerMacs won't boot into OS9? (And on the basis of....???)

Look at the following from Macintouch :

William Frank forwarded a note from Steve Jobs about the purported demise of Mac OS 9 support in Apple's next hardware releases:

I wrote Steve Jobs my concern about the story on Eweek about not being able to boot into OS 9 with New Macs. I got a response back:

This rumor is simply not true. Steve
     
Eriamjh
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Aug 5, 2002, 09:39 PM
 
saru boy, you take the fun out of everything

Personally, I don't use OS9... much.

I'm a bird. I am the 1% (of pets).
     
hyperizer
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Aug 5, 2002, 10:36 PM
 
Originally posted by mikerally:
It looks like that Mac OS X v10.2, the Retail Upgrade, will not ship with a copy of Mac OS 9 included in the box.... if you wish to continue using Mac OS 9, whether booting directly into Mac OS 9 or using it through the Classic Environment - you will need to own your own copy of Mac OS 9.
Someone on MacInTouch suggested that there would be a classic-only version of OS 9--one that won't boot on its own but can still run old apps. I can't seem to find the post at the moment. Can anyone who has a developer copy of 10.2 offer any insight? Perhaps this was just wishful thinking...
     
chris v
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Aug 5, 2002, 10:55 PM
 
I ain't a-buyin' no Mac what can't run Disk Warrior.

It would be beyond idiotic for Apple to sell machines that won't boot 9 with no OS X Quark or ProTools. They wouldn't sell machine 1 to professional users in any market but video.

CV

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