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SUV Talk; Also, Persian Rugs (Page 4)
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subego  (op)
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May 16, 2015, 02:46 PM
 
Originally Posted by turtle777 View Post
How many miles on the BMW ?
Mostly city driving ?

I would think that you could shave off 20-30% by going to a non-dealer shop that specializes in European cars. Not sure if putting $7k would be worth it though....

-t
I'm picking it up today, I have no idea off the top of my head. It's not a lot for 10 years. I'll guess somewhere between 60-80K.

Probably half city, half 90+ mile highway trips.

$5K was the cutoff I had subconsciously set when I brought it in.
     
subego  (op)
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May 16, 2015, 03:57 PM
 
I'm picking the car up now.

I feel like it's cheated on me, and now we're in the phase where we awkwardly don't acknowledge each other's existence until it can find a new place.

There are blankets on the couch.
     
subego  (op)
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May 16, 2015, 04:58 PM
 
69K miles.
     
turtle777
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May 16, 2015, 05:34 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
69K miles.
Wow, that's nothing for a 11 year old car.
I'm at 63k miles, 2010 model.

-t
     
subego  (op)
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May 16, 2015, 07:34 PM
 
This was another reason I was open to the idea I can forego the luxury angle. I don't drive that much.
     
subego  (op)
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May 16, 2015, 07:42 PM
 
And I certainly figured it would get to 100K without taking a dump.
     
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May 16, 2015, 08:36 PM
 
I have an `01 M3 (E46) convertible w/ 68k mi on it (62k when I got it), bought it from a man who literally only drove it one day each week with his granddaughter. When it wasn't being driven it sat in his barn with a cover on it, and it's almost as fresh as the day it was built. While I've had to replace a few things, mostly because of age (like belts, hoses, top, shocks, and the original Michelin tires) there's been no other odd surprises. Neat little time capsule, it is.
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subego  (op)
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May 17, 2015, 06:26 AM
 
Ultimately, it's BMWs from that era and earlier which made me want the X5. I think I missed the sweet spot.
     
subego  (op)
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May 17, 2015, 06:31 AM
 
Well, thanks to everyone for helping me choose! Since it looks like I'm going to do this, I have a few procedural questions. I've never bought a used car.

The PPI seems painless. I gather they come right to the car.

Where does this fit in, process-wise? I'm imagining it being right before I hand over the money.
     
subego  (op)
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May 17, 2015, 06:41 AM
 
I've also never been in a trade-in situation. One car I had stolen, and the other I sold direct.

Where does this fit into the process? Is the selling price and the trade-in one bundle negotiation, or are they separate?

Also, I presume as a courtesy, I should mention the state of the engine?
     
Cap'n Tightpants
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May 17, 2015, 08:16 AM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Well, thanks to everyone for helping me choose! Since it looks like I'm going to do this, I have a few procedural questions. I've never bought a used car.

The PPI seems painless. I gather they come right to the car.

Where does this fit in, process-wise? I'm imagining it being right before I hand over the money.
After the test drive, once you've confirmed that it's the car you want, then you get the PPI (otherwise you may decide you don't want the car and you've wasted the $$ getting it inspected, of course). A PPI will guarantee you aren't buying a "Sandy" car, and will tell you if there are any mechanical issues that are lurking beneath the surface (that could be hidden by the dealer having the engine steam cleaned, or using Motor Honey and/or stop leak).

As someone who often buys cars without first seeing them in person (yeah, I know, but I don't often have the time to fly to Bangor to look at a car) PPIs are invaluable, even to the point where I've started to build solid relationships with specific inspectors in different parts of the country and now trust them implicitly (completely removes the anxiety that usually surrounds such a purchase). I can send you info on my contact near Chicago (great guy, very frank), if you want.
( Last edited by Cap'n Tightpants; May 17, 2015 at 08:26 AM. )
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subego  (op)
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May 17, 2015, 12:13 PM
 
That would be awesome, thank you!

The thing I'm still confused on is do I negotiate a price with the seller, and then call in a PPI, or do I not talk money until after the PPI?

Also, I'm imagining Car Gurus has a decent pricing algorithm, and I'm willing to pay the fair price. I don't have a problem with people making a reasonable profit.

This particular car is $1,800 or so above the fair price according to Car Gurus. Looking over the listing, I can surmise their pitch will be it's in excellent condition.

If the thing really is pristine, is an extra $1,800 asking too much? I know you can't see it, but imagine you may have a feeling for these types of things.

Thanks again!
     
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May 17, 2015, 12:39 PM
 
What car and have you driven both your finalists?

I really can't stress that enough. From the sound of your earlier comments you seemed to be suggesting that a test drive was too much effort. To be clear, it's one of the few criteria you should have on your list of must-haves. Choosing between cars without doing so it nigh on ludicrous.
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subego  (op)
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May 17, 2015, 02:43 PM
 
There's only one finalist. I'll test drive the Volvo just to make sure I don't hate it.

The reason I don't want to expend the effort to do a comparison is because I know how it will turn out. The $30K car will be like a $30K car. The $60K car will be like a $60K car.

I want my day back.
     
Laminar
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May 17, 2015, 03:49 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Where does this fit into the process? Is the selling price and the trade-in one bundle negotiation, or are they separate?
That depends entirely on the dealer. If they lean to the shady side, they'll bundle the trade-in with the new car price and try and negotiate your payment, then they'll extend the term to get down to the payment you want. It's a terrible way to negotiate.

When I bought my Focus I told them I didn't care what the payment was, I was only financing to get the cash back incentives and I'd be paying it off early. From there we negotiated on both the purchase price for the car and the trade-in value of my old car. I didn't like what they offered for my old car so I walked. Listed it on CL for $1100 more than they were offering me and sold it in 1/2 hour. Went back the next Monday and made a "final" offer, noting the offer did not include tax, title, and license. If you want, you can negotiate a total price that includes those three things.

Also, I presume as a courtesy, I should mention the state of the engine?
Depends on your own moral compass. You can outright lie, you can say that you're afraid of owning a high-mileage BMW, you can honestly answer them if they ask, or you can bring it up first. IANAL but I've never heard of a dealer coming back on a customer for trading in something with issues.
     
subego  (op)
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May 17, 2015, 05:06 PM
 
I'm unfortunately a little up against a wall when it comes to negotiation leverage.

There's one other post-2010 AWD XC70 around here, it's an ugly color, it costs the same, and it's the same dealer.

I really don't want to deal with selling the X5 myself, especially considering the problems it has. Not to mention I'd have no place to put it.
     
ShortcutToMoncton
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May 17, 2015, 06:18 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
There's only one finalist. I'll test drive the Volvo just to make sure I don't hate it.

The reason I don't want to expend the effort to do a comparison is because I know how it will turn out. The $30K car will be like a $30K car. The $60K car will be like a $60K car.

I want my day back.
But.....none of that means that one or the other isn't better for what you want it for. And you keep repeating how you want the new car for specific purposes.

Sure the Outback is a $30k car. It also has more leg, hip and head room for all passengers; is 500+ pounds lighter at the curb; 1/2inch more ground clearance for those off-road downtown Chitown excursions; and more total interior room and specifically a fair amount more seats-up rear storage, in case you want passengers along with your gear. It's also 4 years newer - no idea if the Volvo has handy backup camera, rear storage features like auto tailgate etc, but I assume so - and under full warranty - which given your current situation I'd have thought would be attractive (Volvo repairs/work not much cheaper than BMW I'm told).

None of which means the Volvo isn't a nicer car - it may be, and I like Volvos. They're pretty similar style-wise. Like I said, I bought the Merc E500 last year because, well, it was also an awesome car. But I'm way happier with the Forester.
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Cap'n Tightpants
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May 17, 2015, 07:08 PM
 
In a trade-in I'd just present my car and let them sort it all out, WRT what issues it may or may not have, and make an offer. They're the professionals. At 10 years old they're probably going to wholesale it anyway, unless it's particularly sweet. It's not a lie, or even an omission, it's their job to evaluate it.
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subego  (op)
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May 17, 2015, 07:14 PM
 
Originally Posted by ShortcutToMoncton View Post
But.....none of that means that one or the other isn't better for what you want it for. And you keep repeating how you want the new car for specific purposes.

Sure the Outback is a $30k car. It also has more leg, hip and head room for all passengers; is 500+ pounds lighter at the curb; 1/2inch more ground clearance for those off-road downtown Chitown excursions; and more total interior room and specifically a fair amount more seats-up rear storage, in case you want passengers along with your gear. It's also 4 years newer - no idea if the Volvo has handy backup camera, rear storage features like auto tailgate etc, but I assume so - and under full warranty - which given your current situation I'd have thought would be attractive (Volvo repairs/work not much cheaper than BMW I'm told).

None of which means the Volvo isn't a nicer car - it may be, and I like Volvos. They're pretty similar style-wise. Like I said, I bought the Merc E500 last year because, well, it was also an awesome car. But I'm way happier with the Forester.
You put up a good argument, now I'm wavering...

Andi will be so pissed.
     
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May 17, 2015, 07:36 PM
 
Haha.....I really don't think it's a big deal to drop by the nearest dealerships and get a quick test drive. Unless you need something stat.
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Cap'n Tightpants
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May 17, 2015, 07:38 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
That would be awesome, thank you!

The thing I'm still confused on is do I negotiate a price with the seller, and then call in a PPI, or do I not talk money until after the PPI?

Also, I'm imagining Car Gurus has a decent pricing algorithm, and I'm willing to pay the fair price. I don't have a problem with people making a reasonable profit.

This particular car is $1,800 or so above the fair price according to Car Gurus. Looking over the listing, I can surmise their pitch will be it's in excellent condition.

If the thing really is pristine, is an extra $1,800 asking too much? I know you can't see it, but imagine you may have a feeling for these types of things.

Thanks again!
Cargurus goes on the average, in terms of condition, then sorts it all by features and mileage. If a car is a solid 1 or 2 (the best ratings) it could be worth more, 3 is average, while a 4 or 5 could be worth substantially less. I never go by what dealers post and use it only as a broad indicator, that price is their best case scenario for a sale, go in with a price in your head of what you want to pay and get as close to that as possible. What they paid for the car doesn't matter to you, that's their problem. Get the PPI after you've looked the car over and decided it's for you, but before the money phase, likely there will be a few small things (ie. half worn brakes or a funky windshield washer) that you can use to lower the price a bit.

Car shopping and haggling is one of my favorite pastimes, I love the arguing and swearing. I even bring a book and a lunch with me a lot of times, for when they run back to "talk with their sales manager" (code for smoke a cig). There's a Pakistani salesman (rotund dude) at this exotic importer in Long Island that I love working with, he uses all the "old country" insults and his face turns purple when you're getting over on him, "I have 7 children to send to college (the number goes up), may the fleas of 1,000 dogs devour your manhood, you white devil!" Shit, I'd buy a car from him just for the experience alone.
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subego  (op)
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May 17, 2015, 08:21 PM
 
I'm the opposite.

If I went with the new Subaru for example, I want to know what the dealer legit paid for it, I tack on 5%, and everybody's happy.
     
ShortcutToMoncton
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May 17, 2015, 08:28 PM
 
Me too. Haggling is such a waste of time to me. Let's cut out and settle on a middle number and we both get to eat happy! But some people just love it.
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subego  (op)
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May 17, 2015, 10:36 PM
 
Great. Now I feel like maybe I should try a Flex, too.

Thanks a lot.
     
turtle777
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May 17, 2015, 10:49 PM
 
Ugh. The Flex is such an ugly vehicle. Yes, it might have great utility value, but it's a damn eye sore.

-t
     
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May 17, 2015, 11:07 PM
 
I actually think the Flex is a good looking car. It's not beautiful, but it's good looking and original. It's a nice change from the generic looking garbage the other American companies are putting out.
     
iMOTOR
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May 17, 2015, 11:22 PM
 
Originally Posted by ShortcutToMoncton View Post
Me too. Haggling is such a waste of time to me.
Haggling in person is a waste of time. For me, the best approach is getting the email address for the internet sales manager at each of your local dealers and sending them all a message on what you're looking for with a subtle suggestion that they are competing with other dealers.
     
subego  (op)
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May 17, 2015, 11:25 PM
 
Because someone felt it would be a good idea to open the floodgates, I should go big or go home.

I'm looking at vans.
     
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May 17, 2015, 11:32 PM
 
Originally Posted by iMOTOR View Post
Haggling in person is a waste of time. For me, the best approach is getting the email address for the internet sales manager at each of your local dealers and sending them all a message on what you're looking for with a subtle suggestion that they are competing with other dealers.
Entirely depends on what you're buying (and if you look at it as form of entertainment, I do).
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subego  (op)
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May 17, 2015, 11:51 PM
 
The good news is if I like the Sienna, then I'm back to not needing to test drive the station wagons.
     
subego  (op)
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May 18, 2015, 12:35 AM
 
Crap... now I'm completely off the reservation and am thinking Ford Transit Connect.
     
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May 18, 2015, 04:08 AM
 
Originally Posted by Laminar View Post
IANAL but I've never heard of a dealer coming back on a customer for trading in something with issues.
That's because the car will go directly to auction where it's sold as seen and therefore somebody else problem.
This space for Hire! Reasonable rates. Reach an audience of literally dozens!
     
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May 18, 2015, 07:30 AM
 
Gotta love Mr Regular. What a coincidence.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TvZBWZHxwHA

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andi*pandi
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May 18, 2015, 09:21 AM
 
Negotiating trade-in can be tricky, depends on the dealership and what their attitude is. General best practice is that you negotiate price first, then mention the trade in. Of course, the first question they ask is if you have a trade in.

Wait, what? Vans? FFS.

     
subego  (op)
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May 18, 2015, 12:15 PM
 
Today is day one.

I have appointments to try out a Ford Transit Connect, and a Fiat Doblò Ram Promaster City.

We'll see how horrible these are compared to consumer vehicles.

I get double the space. That's worth some pain... and pain I will have without AWD.



My ex will be way madder than Andi if I go with a cargo van.
     
Cap'n Tightpants
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May 18, 2015, 12:17 PM
 
I don't even know who you are anymore.
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subego  (op)
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May 18, 2015, 12:44 PM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
I don't even know who you are anymore.
I don't either... or maybe I do and am finally admitting it.
     
subego  (op)
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May 18, 2015, 12:50 PM
 
You know, I'm actually kind of excited about testing these out. I think what was getting me down was none of the previous options we're really right. I was trying to do too many things at once with a single vehicle, and none of them were satisfying. They weren't taking me forward, just a side hop.
     
subego  (op)
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May 18, 2015, 01:06 PM
 
Well... and I have two vehicles in the same frigging class.
     
subego  (op)
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May 18, 2015, 03:16 PM
 
I'm looking at a Transit Connect now... I kinda ****ing like it.
     
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May 18, 2015, 03:37 PM
 
     
The Final Dakar
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May 18, 2015, 03:42 PM
 
It's a kangoo. You want to buy a kangoo. How in god's name did we get here?
     
subego  (op)
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May 18, 2015, 03:57 PM
 
Gave it a spin.

I'm impressed. Handles surprisingly decent.

Very little pickup. Which I'm sure will be worse when loaded.


On to the Kangoo!!!
     
subego  (op)
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May 18, 2015, 04:16 PM
 


I'm looking at the long wheelbase model, but this was easier to snap a pic of.
     
imitchellg5
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May 18, 2015, 04:37 PM
 
Just buy a new Outback... it's the most in the middle of what you're looking at.
     
subego  (op)
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May 18, 2015, 04:53 PM
 
I don't think I want in the middle. That wasn't sitting right.

I'm looking at the Kangoo. The Connect has better driver visibility.
     
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May 18, 2015, 05:09 PM
 
If you're used to cars, get a van/minivan with full windows. You'll be used to checking your blind spots by looking over your shoulder. Which doesn't work without full side windows. Instead, you have to get used to using mirrors with extra wide-view accessory mirrors. Backing up a vehicle semi-blind is also stressful.
     
subego  (op)
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May 18, 2015, 05:15 PM
 
Kangoo is way better than the Ford.
     
subego  (op)
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May 18, 2015, 05:29 PM
 
I like it enough I'm letting the guy work up an offer.
     
subego  (op)
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May 18, 2015, 05:31 PM
 
Originally Posted by reader50 View Post
If you're used to cars, get a van/minivan with full windows. You'll be used to checking your blind spots by looking over your shoulder. Which doesn't work without full side windows. Instead, you have to get used to using mirrors with extra wide-view accessory mirrors. Backing up a vehicle semi-blind is also stressful.
Yeah... I'd have to get used to the no side windows.

It does have back windows, and I can get a retro backup camera.
     
 
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