[macforray]

Should say "used" occasionally between 1972 and 1983. None since.

I ate a whole dozen Dunkin Donuts after a very stoned Beach Boys concert (yes, I said "Beach Boys"). Would have rather been at BTO, PF or CCR concert but our venue sucked for getting good bands. We attended what was available.

[DKeithA]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

Personally, I like getting stoned much better than getting drunk. Way more positive effects, way fewer negative effects.

Amen to that.

[centerchannel68]

Originally Posted by Aron Peterson 

Because of the three side effects of long term use - arrogance, slobbery, forgetfulness.

What about the side effects of never touching something because the man says it's illegal? Boring, lame, being a square, missing out on parties, etc. Not smoking for other reasons is fine, but being against something purely because it's illegal just shows what a boring, lameass someone is.

[centerchannel68]

Originally Posted by goMac 

What? No where did he say he was talking about recreational drugs.

Do you actually think he was suggesting cigarettes should be illegal? Tylenol? Cough syrup? All he was saying is that there should be a limit somewhere. He had a very valid point. Just because Marijuana is less dangerous than hard drugs, doesn't mean it isn't dangerous.

Would shooting yourself in the head with a handgun be less dangerous than shooting yourself in the head with a nuclear weapon?

Cigarettes contain chemicals specifically to get people addicted. Cigarettes are a huge source of pollution, using plastic filters that don't biodegrade, and pretty much every 'smoker' throws their butts on the ground or out the window. Heavy smokers develop emphasema more often than pot smokers:

http://uncletaz.com/marijuana/potcig.html

And check this out:

Many people think smoking marijuana is just as harmful as smoking tobacco, but this is not true. Those who hold that marijuana is equivalent to tobacco are misinformed. Due to the efforts of various federal agencies to discourage use of marijuana in the 1970's the government, in a fit of "reefer
madness," conducted several biased studies designed to return results that would equate marijuana smoking with tobacco smoking, or worse.

For example the Berkeley carcinogenic tar studies of the late 1970's concluded that "marijuana is one-and-a-half times as carcinogenic as tobacco." This finding was based solely on the tar content of cannabis leaves compared to that of tobacco, and did not take radioactivity into consideration. (Cannabis tars do not contain radioactive materials.) In addition, it was not considered that:

1) Most marijuana smokers smoke the bud, not the leaf, of
the plant. The bud contains only 33% as much tar as tobacco.

2) Marijuana smokers do not smoke anywhere near as much as tobacco smokers, due to the psychoactive effects of cannabis.

3) Not one case of lung cancer has ever been successfully linked to marijuana use.

4) Cannabis, unlike tobacco, does not cause any narrowing of the small air passageways in the lungs.

In fact, marijuana has been shown to be an expectorant and actually dilates the air channels it comes in contact with. This is why many asthma sufferers look to marijuana to provide relief. Doctors have postulated that marijuana may, in this respect, be more effective than all of the prescription drugs on the market.

So if you're going to talk about DANGEROUS, HARMFUL drugs and where to draw the line, then surely POT is less dangerous, less harmful, and less addicting than cigarettes, and thus SHOULD BE LEGAL.

[centerchannel68]

Originally Posted by goMac 

Legal marijuana is something that is only good for people who do Marijuana. For society as a whole, it doesn't offer any positives, and really just causes more issues.

We wouldn't have cops throwing harmless people in jail (nor would we be paying for them to be in jail), we wouldn't be spending MILLIONS of taxpayer dollars on eradicating wild marijuana, etc etc etc. There'd probably be less fighting, more music, more art, and more racial barriers coming down, also. Stoned people are, in my experience, never violent. I know some are, only because of news stories, but I'm pretty sure they'd be violent and nuts without drugs too.

[centerchannel68]

Originally Posted by goMac 

Cold medicine, free speech, and fun don't require regulation.

Cold medicine is. So's free speech. Try saying something about the president. Fun? I consider a lot of things that are currently 'illegal', fun. So it's definitely regulated.

[faragbre967]

lol, sorry about all the miscommunication there debaters. I meant it should be legalized in the way alcohol currently is. Illegal to drive under the influence of and illegal to purchase under a certain age.

It's stupid our government isn't tapping such potential revenue, and not just from taxing sales of new marijuana. If the US decided to legalize pot it would free up a lot of money for cracking down on the actual bad drugs. Drugs like cocaine, heroine, ecstasy and meth need to get stopped at the border and a lot more funding needs to go into rehab clinics for those currently addicted to the drugs. The combined dollars/man power of marijuana tax revenue and freed up law enforcement would certainly have an impact on the illegal drug situation. If a surge of effort even stunted flow of supply we may be able to get a lot of addicts into better habits.

And I don't remember who said it in the first place, but technically machine guns are legal as long as you get it through the Treasury Department.

[CreepDogg]

Originally Posted by Cadaver 

Where's the "Have done it a handful of times 15-20 years ago, but not since" option?

I'll raise my hand for that one as well.

Oh - and legalize it. Why do we need to put pot smokers in jail, away from society? I'm not really very afraid of them. I'm happy to live among them, even if some of the more hardcore potheads are really annoying.

[Hawkeye_a]

Smoked a lot in uni, not addicted tho...im definately more addicted to caffine (chocolate, tea, coffee) more than i ever will be o mary-jane.... the last time i smoked was a month ago, and the time before that was 2 years ago...

harmless.

[Face Ache]

I'm against mind control.

[Angelo78]

Originally Posted by chabig 

Pardon me, but that's a pretty dumb argument. Perhaps we should legalize machine guns too, because they just aren't very powerful compared to nuclear weapons.

Assuming you're in the USA machine guns are legal. However, you need a Class 3 license to buy one. The most law abiding citizens in the country are those with that license. You get one only if you have a squeaky clean record and go through a detailed background check. Your argument is dumb.

You should go to Westpoint, Kentucky for the Knob Creek Machine Gun Shoot. You can try anything from M60 and MP5's to mini-guns and flame throwers. Loosen up and learn that it's not guns that are dangerous, but certain crazy people. A bad person can hurt you no matter what is legal or not.

http://www.machinegunshoot.com/

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by Face Ache 

I'm against mind control.

How do you feel about bending spoons with your psychic abilities?

[Angelo78]

Originally Posted by centerchannel68 

I know some are, only because of news stories, but I'm pretty sure they'd be violent and nuts without drugs too.

Exactly! If you have a tendency toward violence you'll be that way no matter what. Alcohol is legal and that sure as heck wouldn't help out that person's situation any. If you have pre-existing problems which could be multiplied by certain substances that person shouldn't do them at all. Assuming they still continue to partake it wouldn't matter if that substance is legal or not because said person will use anyway.

The negative qualities of many legal prescrition drugs probably out-weight marijuana's possible effects.

[Randman]

Where's the option to pick Used it long ago but gave it up, also long ago?

[Face Ache]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

How do you feel about bending spoons with your psychic abilities?

If I had psychic abilities I'd be using them for eeeevil, not spoon bending.

[bstone]

Legalize it.

When I become a doctor in a few more years I will write Rx for pot. Then I will be known as "Dr Stoner".

[Jawbone54]

Never smoked pot. Smoked cigs only once. Got drunk only once.

If I didn't see the point in smoking or getting drunk, I probably wouldn't see the point in doing drugs either.

[Peter]

Never.

[centerchannel68]

Originally Posted by Jawbone54 

Never smoked pot. Smoked cigs only once. Got drunk only once.

If I didn't see the point in smoking or getting drunk, I probably wouldn't see the point in doing drugs either.

You must be a hit at parties.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by centerchannel68 

You must be a hit at parties.

Believe it or not, there are parties where the goal is not smoking and getting drunk.

[Gossamer]

Originally Posted by centerchannel68 

You must be a hit at parties.

It's possible to have fun and still remember it.

[centerchannel68]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

Believe it or not, there are parties where the goal is not smoking and getting drunk.

I'm sure they're very fun, too. Do you guys sit around and eat ice cream and talk about band camp?

[centerchannel68]

Originally Posted by Gossamer 

It's possible to have fun and still remember it.

I don't black out, or get that ****ed up. I remember what happened. Your ignorance is showing.

[Gossamer]

Originally Posted by centerchannel68 

I'm sure they're very fun, too. Do you guys sit around and eat ice cream and talk about band camp?

Do you really think the best way to have fun is by drinking/smoking?

[centerchannel68]

At a party, yeah. And then dancing, talking, doing silly things, playing loud music, games, etc.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by centerchannel68 

I'm sure they're very fun, too. Do you guys sit around and eat ice cream and talk about band camp?

Nah, they dance, talk, do silly things, play loud music, games, etc.

Personally, I'm not a teetotaler, but some of my friends are, and I don't really think the parties without drinking are necessarily any less fun than the parties with drinking. They're not even really all that different.

(In before my sexuality is questioned, etc.)

[Gossamer]

For the record I've never smoked cigarettes or cigars, but I did smoke hookah a bunch last summer. I'd never had any alcohol until last month when I had half a glass of wine with a couple friends before one of them left for Rome. I look at the other people partying and getting drunk and I'm just not interested. Just this week here on campus someone got wasted at a party and was walking home, when he somehow managed to fall in the campus "lake" and drowned. News Service: Iowa State University

[Dakar²]

If you're not remembering what happened, you're doing it wrong.

[Jumbonium2007]

Originally Posted by Dakar² 

If you're not remembering what happened, you're doing it wrong.

Exactly.. Marijuana shouldnt make you forget what you are doing.. I find smoking occasionally lets me just veg out and relax.. and after yesterdays adventure with my truck stranding me in a bad neighborhood.. I was glad to smoke some.. put me right to sleep.. best sleep aid there is... smoke a bowl and call it a night..

[OldManMac]

Originally Posted by Gossamer 

Do you really think the best way to have fun is by drinking/smoking?

Some people need those stimulants, to be "themselves." Haven't you ever been to a wedding where somebody says they'll only dance after having a few drinks? They really want to dance, but they're too inhibited, because they're afraid they'll look foolish. After a few drinks, they loosen up a little, and then they can say that they had a good time. They don't know how to have a good time without some stimulant.

[Atheist]

It seems many here presume that one who uses stimulants always does so to the extreme. In moderation I find stimulants such as cannabis and alcohol to be very pleasurable. I very rarely indulge in pot, mostly because it's illegal where I live. Anyway, I prefer alcohol (specifically red wine). Pot (in moderation) can make sex very intense. I'm surprised no one has mentioned that yet. Again, I'm speaking of enhancing an experience, not using a drug to overcome inhibitions. Personally I despise overindulgence... I feel it's for the weak and ignorant.

[Gossamer]

Originally Posted by KarlG 

Some people need those stimulants, to be "themselves." Haven't you ever been to a wedding where somebody says they'll only dance after having a few drinks? They really want to dance, but they're too inhibited, because they're afraid they'll look foolish. After a few drinks, they loosen up a little, and then they can say that they had a good time. They don't know how to have a good time without some stimulant.

Unfortunately here in college, overindulgence IS the fun of it. I have no problem with people remaining within the confines of the law and their own physical limits.

[Aron Peterson]

Originally Posted by centerchannel68 

What about the side effects of never touching something because the man says it's illegal? Boring, lame, being a square, missing out on parties, etc. Not smoking for other reasons is fine, but being against something purely because it's illegal just shows what a boring, lameass someone is.

I didn't say it should be illegal. I think drugs should be controlled and administered under supervision by doctors. That I suspect is what many doctors would like, a legit industry would like, and many in government. The problem is that drugs provide an income stream for many poor people and criminals. If you take that black market away from them they'll be even poorer and there will be a rise in criminality as they seek a new revenue stream. That could come from more robbery, more burglary, more beatings, and even stronger and more dangerous underground drugs.

It could also lead to an increase in terrorist activities. Right now terrorist groups derive their moneys from kidnapping, smuggling, extortion, arms and drugs. 50% of their revenues are from drugs, the most profitable part of the 'chaos trade'. If you legalise drugs you cut that massive stream of black money going to terrorist groups. That sounds like a very good thing to do, until you realise that they will intensify their other activities should that occur. That means more murder, explosions, assassinations, 9-11s, etc

What we have with the current status quo is the better of two evils. It's a damn hard evil to live with, but nothing can be done until greater prosperity reaches most of the world with middle-class populations growing and poverty decreasing. This can only happen if we have free and fair trade in the absence of violence.

[Gossamer]

Originally Posted by centerchannel68 

What about the side effects of never touching something because the man says it's illegal? Boring, lame, being a square, missing out on parties, etc. Not smoking for other reasons is fine, but being against something purely because it's illegal just shows what a boring, lameass someone is.

Side effects like not going to jail or getting a criminal record? I'm happy with my side effects. Oh noes! Someone on teh internet things I'm lame!

Originally Posted by Aron Peterson 

I didn't say it should be illegal. I think drugs should be controlled and administered under supervision by doctors. That I suspect is what many doctors would like, a legit industry would like, and many in government. The problem is that drugs provide an income stream for many poor people and criminals. If you take that black market away from them they'll be even poorer and there will be a rise in criminality as they seek a new revenue stream. That could come from more robbery, more burglary, more beatings, and even stronger and more dangerous underground drugs.

It could also lead to an increase in terrorist activities. Right now terrorist groups derive their moneys from kidnapping, smuggling, extortion, arms and drugs. 50% of their revenues are from drugs, the most profitable part of the 'chaos trade'. If you legalise drugs you cut that massive stream of black money going to terrorist groups. That sounds like a very good thing to do, until you realise that they will intensify their other activities should that occur. That means more murder, explosions, assassinations, 9-11s, etc

What we have with the current status quo is the better of two evils. It's a damn hard evil to live with, but nothing can be done until greater prosperity reaches most of the world with middle-class populations growing and poverty decreasing. This can only happen if we have free and fair trade in the absence of violence.

Are you for real?

[Aron Peterson]

Originally Posted by Gossamer 

Are you for real?

If you don't know about that you need to read up or go outside more often.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by Gossamer 

Side effects like not going to jail or getting a criminal record? I'm happy with my side effects. Oh noes! Someone on teh internet things I'm lame!

Do you also never jaywalk, keep detailed income and expense records three years back and never download music from except from licensed stores?

[sek929]

Weed is not worse than alcohol and therefore it should be legal.

If I can drink 20 beers a night, I can smoke a joint.

There isn't a single decent argument against the legalization and taxation of Marijuana. If nothing else, it needs to be decriminalized ASAP, countless money is being wasted on nothing.

War on Drugs indeed.

[Gossamer]

Originally Posted by centerchannel68 

What about the side effects of never touching something because the man says it's illegal? Boring, lame, being a square, missing out on parties, etc. Not smoking for other reasons is fine, but being against something purely because it's illegal just shows what a boring, lameass someone is.

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

Do you also never jaywalk, keep detailed income and expense records three years back and never download music from except from licensed stores?

I can jaywalk, go 5mph over, etc without getting arrested. I can't smoke a joint in front of a cop though. For the record, I voted "never tried it but curious." If it ever gets legalized I'll give it a shot.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by Gossamer 

I can jaywalk, go 5mph over, etc without getting arrested. I can't smoke a joint in front of a cop though.

Not so. Cops can bust you for jaywalking just like they can bust you for smoking. They can also ignore smoking just like they can ignore jaywalking. I've seen all these things at different times.

[d4nth3m4n]

Originally Posted by ort888 

Where's the option for I used to all the time, but do not any longer?

seriously.

[Rumor]

When I was younger, I ...um, what was I talking about?

[Gossamer]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

Not so. Cops can bust you for jaywalking just like they can bust you for smoking. They can also ignore smoking just like they can ignore jaywalking. I've seen all these things at different times.

Sure they can, but they don't.

[smacintush]

Originally Posted by goMac 

What would it gain exactly?…Legal marijuana is something that is only good for people who do Marijuana. For society as a whole, it doesn't offer any positives, and really just causes more issues.

For one it would undo a wrong. Being stupid is not a crime and stupid people shouldn't be put in jails or prisons. All that does it increases the chance that he becomes addicted to something else while in prison, gets abused while in prison, has whatever faith and trust he has in our system and of law enforcement (rightly) diminished or destroyed, goes on to REAL crime after he gets out…prisons are schools for crime, drug abuse and rape and anyone who gets sent there should be a real criminal rather then a "sinner".

Or, if you don't like that argument or say "who cares, it was their choice they made their bed they can lie in it" then consider the fact that we spend HOW MUCH MONEY on anti-drug ads and on busting, prosecuting and incarcerating people for simply being pot-heads…and WHAT GOOD has it done? What is the benefit that this approach has had? NONE. It only makes the problem worse. From a purely practical standpoint the American model for dealing with drugs is a sham and a failure.

You want to argue that pot-heads could be driving, operating machinery etc. and be a danger then fine, I agree but that is a different issue. I don't have a problem with it being illegal to toke and drive as long as it is backed by real evidence that driving high is actually a real danger. (rather than a theoretical one)

In fact I will go as far to say that ALL federal laws regarding the possession of recreational drugs should be DROPPED altogether for the reasons I stated above: they are a waste of money and they don't help at all. There needs to be a different solution.

To those of you who think that pot isn't addictive or isn't "very" addictive then think again. It can be very addictive but the difference is that the withdrawal symptoms take longer than a lot of other drugs to manifest and they are much more subtle. It often takes 6 weeks or more for symptoms to show up and usually it's depression that the user doesn't even make the connection to their pot use unless they are seeking the help of a professional. Just because you aren't out rolling old ladies for cash doesn't mean the you aren't addicted.

[centerchannel68]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

Do you also never jaywalk, keep detailed income and expense records three years back and never download music from except from licensed stores?

He never speeds either. Ever.

[houstonmacbro]

There should another choice in your poll like:

Tried it in college, but do not use it any more

[centerchannel68]

Originally Posted by Gossamer 

Sure they can, but they don't.

Yes they do. I've known a few people get jaywalking tickets, and really small speeding tickets. Pot is illegal because of William Randolph Hearst. Not because it's dangerous. Thus, sticking to something just because it's a law, and not because it makes sense, is being a sheep. And I'm not a sheep.

[houstonmacbro]

Originally Posted by centerchannel68 

What about the side effects of never touching something because the man says it's illegal? Boring, lame, being a square, missing out on parties, etc. Not smoking for other reasons is fine, but being against something purely because it's illegal just shows what a boring, lameass someone is.

I do not use it any more, but having done so with no ill effects, I can say that I do not feel it should be outlawed. In fact, I think it is much less harmful than alcohol which is readily available and much more deleterious than marijuana.

[centerchannel68]

Originally Posted by smacintush 

I don't have a problem with it being illegal to toke and drive as long as it is backed by real evidence that driving high is actually a real danger. (rather than a theoretical one)

If you google, some study in the UK found that stoners were better drivers, because they took fewer risks, and drove more defensively, so they got into fewer accidents per x amount of miles.

To those of you who think that pot isn't addictive or isn't "very" addictive then think again. It can be very addictive but the difference is that the withdrawal symptoms take longer than a lot of other drugs to manifest and they are much more subtle. It often takes 6 weeks or more for symptoms to show up and usually it's depression that the user doesn't even make the connection to their pot use unless they are seeking the help of a professional. Just because you aren't out rolling old ladies for cash doesn't mean the you aren't addicted.

Links? I've never heard of this. Anything can be addicitive, but pot contains no chemicallly addictive substances, to my knowledge.

[Gossamer]

Originally Posted by centerchannel68 

Yes they do. I've known a few people get jaywalking tickets, and really small speeding tickets. Pot is illegal because of William Randolph Hearst. Not because it's dangerous. Thus, sticking to something just because it's a law, and not because it makes sense, is being a sheep. And I'm not a sheep.

Good for you. There's still a difference between having a jaywalking ticket and a couple speeding tickets on your record, and a few counts of drug possession. I don't care how safe or unsafe or political the decision is/was.

[Hawkeye_a]

Getting drunk at parties and getting stonned have produced some of the most memeroable and funny moments in my post-high-school life . I'm not advocating getting drunk cause it seems like ppl react to it differently...ive seem way too many fights break out caused by alcohol, which is just plain bad karma, and defeats the purpose really. Cigarettest and cigars...too many bad side effects..cancer, etc. and they taste horrible anyway.

Weed on the other hand..the worst that could happen is you laugh at any stupid thing, u mellow out and have the best night sleep uve ever had. You hardly ever hear of people getting into fights when stonned or getting into accidents or getting cancer cause of it.

If i were to rate addictive and harmful substances..... they would be in this order:
weed<caffine<alcohol<tabacco

Oh and just cause "they" say it's illegal doesnt necessarly make it right/so. less than a hundred years ago it was illegal for non-whites to sit in the front of the bus.

It is my humble opinion that weed is such a big issuce cause:
1. people can grow it in their back yards
2. it needs no processing/branding (no marketability)
3. it's an alternative to alcohol/tabacco (and a better one imo)
4. alcohol and tabacco companies want it illegal so they can continue to peddle their more harmful, addictive and destructive substances to make a "profit".

Talking withdrawl symptoms..... i cant seemto give up tea (at least 2 cups a day), i had quite a bad case of withdrawl symptoms when i tried to give up carbonated beveradges (coke, sprite) and i stil havent managed to rid myself of them 100%. I went 2 whole years without giving pot a second though....it crossed my mind when i met up with some friends, but we just had a laugh...i had a lot going on and didnt have time and didnt want to get high....and i had no problem not smoking.

If you are a chronic weed smoker there's definately a problem, but no more than if your a chain smoker of cigarettes, or an alcoholic. chronic weed smoking might cause some memory loss...tabacco causes cancer and alcohol causes everything from liver damage to memory loss and more, but u know what...even if you drink too much water, its bad for you. if you have no self control you shouldnt touch any of these things.

Id say all the energies spent demonizing pot needs to be spent on loooking at alcohol instead, cause imo it's more harmful to the peopel using it in excess and to the people around them.