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You are here: MacNN Forums > Software - Troubleshooting and Discussion > macOS > 10.3.6 major performance problems

10.3.6 major performance problems
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jmzorko
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Nov 9, 2004, 07:12 PM
 
Hello, all ...

I thought I was being cautious by waiting a couple of days before installing the 10.3.6 update. I didn't read any horrid stories, so I decided to do it. My G4 Cube updated without a problem, as did my dual 1.25GHz G4 (at least, i've not noticed any issues with them yet). My 1.33GHz 12" PowerBook G4, though, is another matter entirely. It takes forever to boot now (last night after the update, it took >30 _minutes_). Safari is almost unusable -- it often hangs for 30-60 seconds (or more) out of nowhere. The thing is, Firefox now does the same thing, as does Fire and (occasionally) Terminal. The last one is a big deal, as the Terminal is where I do 95% of my work.

I noticed that when these extreme slowdowns occur, the following sometimes appears in /var/log/system.log:

jnl: flushing fs disk buffer returned 0x3c

... so perhaps the slowdowns have to do with the journalling functions of the OSX filesystem, as it seems to affect random applications. This really is a big issue for me -- the PowerBook is the Mac I use the most, both at home and at work as a *nix developer.

Regards,

John

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RayX
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Nov 9, 2004, 07:46 PM
 
If you haven't already, try installing the 10.3.6 combo update.
     
jmzorko  (op)
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Nov 9, 2004, 08:34 PM
 
Originally posted by RayX:
If you haven't already, try installing the 10.3.6 combo update.
Ray,

Are you saying I should install the 10.3.6 combo update over the current 10.3.6 update (via Software Update) last night? These issues happened after I installed 10.3.6 via Software Update -- sorry if I didn't make that clear.

Regards,

John

Falling You - exploring the beauty of voice and sound
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Sophus
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Nov 9, 2004, 08:42 PM
 
Originally posted by jmzorko:
Ray,

Are you saying I should install the 10.3.6 combo update over the current 10.3.6 update (via Software Update) last night? These issues happened after I installed 10.3.6 via Software Update -- sorry if I didn't make that clear.

Regards,

John

Falling You - exploring the beauty of voice and sound
http://www.magnatune.com/artists/falling_you
Yes, that is what he is saying. May very well fixed a borked update.
     
1zero
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Nov 9, 2004, 11:00 PM
 
I'm having the same issues as jmzorko.

I'll try the combo update 'cause the sluggishness is driving me nuts
     
jmzorko  (op)
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Nov 10, 2004, 01:58 AM
 
Originally posted by Sophus:
Yes, that is what he is saying. May very well fixed a borked update.
... after applying the combo update, the same issues are apparent. Apps hang, sometimes for minutes at a time, often followed by the entry I described in /var/log/system.log. Sometimes the whole system hangs as well -- the dock hangs, menus light up but don't appear, can't switch between apps, etc. This update has rendered my lovely 12" PowerBook pretty much unusable, though so far the Cube and dual MDD G4 are ok (but they act as servers usually -- almost all of my work I do on my PowerBook).

In addition, i've not been able to boot from the Panther install disc 1 since this update, either. The grey Apple appears, but then shifts over a bit -- the system does nothing after that.

I'm making a backup of my home directory while I still can (and just dealing with the abysmal performance while doing so).

Regards,

John

Falling You - exploring the beauty of voice and sound
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theolein
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Nov 10, 2004, 09:09 AM
 
I'm really curious as to what it is in Apple's updates that on some machines they work flawlessly and yet on others just totally hose the system. I am NOT going to install this update until I'm pretty sure that everything is ok.

That said, given the strange message about the journal's disk buffer flush operation failing probably means that something in either the journal or the disk itself is corrupt, but I'm too much of a layman in journaling to have any idea what it is. Still, given that this is central to normal operation of the OS, I would recommend that you back up your data and software on the PB, reformat and zero the disk and reinstall. If you have space on another external HD, using CarbonCopyClone would probably be the easist way to backup and later restore your data, software and OS.
weird wabbit
     
suthercd
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Nov 10, 2004, 10:02 AM
 
Couple of diagnostics to suggest. You can use either Activity Monitor or enter 'top' in Terminal to explore what, if any, processes are using a high amount of CPU. You can also boot in Safe Mode by holding down the shift key immediately after restarting.

Since you have multiple machines and the problem is on one, you can compare the results from each machine from running top. If the safe mode boot cures the problem, then there is an app or some non-Apple enhancer, startup item, preference pane, etc. that needs to be disabled. Safe mode bypasses applications that load during boot that are non-standard. FYI, if you log out and then hold the shift key when logging back in, all non-standard items for that particular user are bypassed during log in.

Hope one of these ideas works for you.

Craig
     
neely
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Nov 10, 2004, 10:09 AM
 
Originally posted by jmzorko:
... so perhaps the slowdowns have to do with the journalling functions of the OSX filesystem, as it seems to affect random applications.
Open Disk Utility, select your hard disk from the list, then go to 'File' > 'Disable Journaling' to see if that fixes it.
     
jmzorko  (op)
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Nov 10, 2004, 11:49 AM
 
Originally posted by suthercd:
Couple of diagnostics to suggest. You can use either Activity Monitor or enter 'top' in Terminal to explore what, if any, processes are using a high amount of CPU. You can also boot in Safe Mode by holding down the shift key immediately after restarting.
Craig
Craig,

Thanks for the tips. I've already done the top-trick (whenever things seem pokey to me that's the first thing I do), but it revealed nothing -- 80-90% idle. Another thing is that often top can't tell you much i.e. if Terminal.app, for instance, is hung, then top won't be able to update the display. This is why I often tail /var/log/system.log in addition to using top and other tools (menumeters, for instance).

Grepping system.log on various boxes also is something I did as soon as I saw the strange jnl log entry. The MDD dual-1.25 G4 and G4 Cube don't have a hint of this in their logs -- only the PowerBook.

I've backed up everything of importance, though I do not relish the idea of a complete reinstall. I'm going to exhaust every other opportunity before I go that route.

Regards,

John

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1zero
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Nov 10, 2004, 01:16 PM
 
I decided to log on with the Admin user and run all the maintenance I could think when I noticed that there was no sluggishness with the Admin user. Decided to clear all the user cache and turn Admin all the users (only 2 anyway)....well the sluggishness is gone and all seems to be running fine (hope I didn't speak too soon).

Turned off Admin for my user again and all still seems nice and dandy...maybe some issue with the user cache
     
CatOne
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Nov 10, 2004, 01:18 PM
 
I have 2 machines running 10.3.6 ... a 15" PB G4 1 GHz with 768 of RAM, and a dual 2.5 G5 with 2 GB of RAM.

Both are just as fast after the update as before. Obviously, the G5 is a lot faster than the powerbook
     
jmzorko  (op)
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Nov 10, 2004, 02:08 PM
 
Originally posted by neely:
Open Disk Utility, select your hard disk from the list, then go to 'File' > 'Disable Journaling' to see if that fixes it.
OK, i'm starting to think this may be due to a hard disk, or even hardware, problem -- disabling journalling has made my 12" PowerBook usable again; no more spinning rainbows coming up at weird times. This is only after about an hour, so I want to keep using it this way for awhile ...

I still can't boot from the Panther install CD (would like to do a disk repair) -- the grey Apple shows up, then shifts over (often appearing cut off afterwards. I am not sure that this has to do with the 10.3.6 update, but it is unfortunate that what seems to be a hardware issue has cropped up at the very same time the disk issue arose, and only after the update was applied. I may have to send this in soon ...

BTW, I truly appreciate the help everyone has offered ... thank you!

Regards,

John

Falling You - exploring the beauty of voice and sound
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Big Mac
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Nov 10, 2004, 05:22 PM
 
It is weird that you started experiencing this issue after upgrading, but I also strongly suspect that it's a hardware problem. Now when I experienced dramatic slow-downs on my iBook, I found that my generic third party RAM had suddenly gone bad after years of fine performance. If I were you, I would remove third party RAM and see if it makes a difference. It seems to me that the RAM is a more likely culprit than your drive, since you cannot even boot from the OS CD.

"The natural progress of things is for liberty to yield and government to gain ground." TJ
     
iPond317
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Nov 10, 2004, 10:33 PM
 
After installing the 10.3.6 update I've had random system freezes and tonight for the first time since the early days of OS X I had the random logout bug resurface. I was working and then boom, the system logged me out and I was back at the login window. This is not a very stable update.
iPond317 | ODU Apple Campus Rep
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Old: Apple IIc, PowerMac 7200/90, iMac Bondi Blue 233, Titanium PowerBook G4 400 - New: MacBook 2.0, iPhone 8GB, AirPort Extreme Gb, iPod 30GB 5th Gen
     
Simon
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Nov 11, 2004, 04:36 AM
 
Originally posted by jmzorko:
OK, i'm starting to think this may be due to a hard disk, or even hardware, problem -- disabling journalling has made my 12" PowerBook usable again; no more spinning rainbows coming up at weird times. This is only after about an hour, so I want to keep using it this way for awhile ...

I still can't boot from the Panther install CD (would like to do a disk repair) -- the grey Apple shows up, then shifts over (often appearing cut off afterwards. I am not sure that this has to do with the 10.3.6 update, but it is unfortunate that what seems to be a hardware issue has cropped up at the very same time the disk issue arose, and only after the update was applied. I may have to send this in soon ...
jmzorko, first of all your initial error refers to the (background) process running on your system that handles the file system journal ('jnl'). If you ever use Disk Utility to repair a journaled disk you will see this process flush the journal cache. Check for the entry in your log files.

If turning off the journal helps you chances are it was software. However, that doesn't tell you why and since it's working for most others you should investigate. But you should also check your hardware. Try to backup your internal disk with ASR to an external disk. Boot from that disk. Does it work? -> Does the error have to do with the journal or with the internal disk?

I wouldn't be amazed to see it has nothing to do with the 10.3.6 update and that it was just an unfortunate coincidence.
     
leperkuhn
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Nov 11, 2004, 01:14 PM
 
dual g4 1ghz, my computer has slowed considerably after installing 10.3.6.

of course, i might just be imagining it, as i've also been using DVD2ONE constantly and running insane queries on a mysql DB...
     
chitlinscc
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Nov 11, 2004, 04:32 PM
 
Originally posted by Simon:
jSNIP

I wouldn't be amazed to see it has nothing to do with the 10.3.6 update and that it was just an unfortunate coincidence.
Simon, with all due respect from a newbie to this forum, unfortunate coincidences in this volume seem unlikey. This is not the only thread involving this slowdown.

I have a PB G3/500 firewire which performed admirably until i update to OSX 10.3.5 and now 10.3.6 (I assumed that it was something in 10.3.5 taht was causing the sluggo behavior, so I invoked Software Update *now* to see if there was anything that might help)

one thing that i am noticing in my case is that sluggo behavior seems to have something to do with the presence of images - in a browser page with a ton of images, in Entourage mail 'reply' to an email with multiple GIF images attached (as with a threaded reply conversation)

i have tried all these fixes with the exception of the 'combo' update - does this term refer to the udate available at the apple website as opposed to the one served up by SWUpdates?

thanx for any and all help - i am gettin a tad upset with this update's messin with me ;-(

CCC
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Simon
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Nov 12, 2004, 03:53 AM
 
Originally posted by chitlinscc:
Simon, with all due respect from a newbie to this forum, unfortunate coincidences in this volume seem unlikey. This is not the only thread involving this slowdown.
Ah no, I think I didn't make myself clear. Of course the slow down could be connected to 10.3.6.

But in his special case I just wondered if it was maybe a coincidence that he got these problems (jnl errors, not booting correctly) right around the time he applied the update. I recently had a disk die on me and the symptoms were rather similar. Murphy's law makes sure hardware always breaks just when you were fooling around with software, making it harder to find the real source of your problems.
     
Simon
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Nov 12, 2004, 03:59 AM
 
Originally posted by chitlinscc:
i have tried all these fixes with the exception of the 'combo' update - does this term refer to the udate available at the apple website as opposed to the one served up by SWUpdates?
Combo refers to the updater that takes any 10.3.x up to 10.3.6 (including security updates) contrary to what Apple calls the 'Delta' upgrade that takes 10.3.5 up to 10.3.6.

Repair permissions. Does the slow-down also occur with a new admin user account? If so, try the Combo. If all that doesn't help re-install Panther and update to 10.3.5.

Good luck!
     
   
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