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jasonsRX7 · Feb 11, 2004, 09:52 PM

I mentioned this a while back, but my G5 is still subjecting me to an overwhelming number of beachballs which always result in having to power off the system. I can't reproduce them consistantly, and I can go days without problems, but invariably, I'll be in the middle of something and all of a sudden, Finder will start beachballing and then one by one, the rest of my apps will lock up. I don't even bother trying to keep it alive anymore, as soon as I see a beachball for a couple of seconds, I go ahead and power off.

Since I've already tried 3 different pairs of ram, repaired permissions, performed fresh installs of 10.3, and a new hard drive, I guess what I'm wondering at this point is will Apple tech support be of any help to me at all? I've been a PC user until about a year ago, and always just fixed hardware issues myself. I've never called for support before, much less taken a machine to someone else to have it worked on. How likely am I to actually get Apple to fix it?

I'm guess what I'm expecting is to take it to them, leave it for a couple weeks, and then go pick it up and have them say, "well, we couldn't find anything wrong with it." Is that about right?

BrunoBruin · Feb 11, 2004, 10:15 PM

Definitely call Apple support. They can be very helpful. They can also NOT be very helpful, depending on your problem, but at least get the problem logged in and a case number. I have had excellent luck with Apple support; you never know, you may get a tech who has dealt with this issue.

It sounds like a lot of unnecessary disk activity to me. I don't have any experience with G5s but I have seen this on machines with antivirus software, Norton and things like that.

My experience with Apple support is that they assume you don't know anything about your computer. Just be patient while they figure out your level of expertise.

Big Mac · Feb 12, 2004, 12:56 AM

This doesn't sound as if its hardware related but rather a case of software corruption. Remove any peripherals, and take out the extra RAM you've installed. If that doesn't produce positive results, Archive and Install or reformat and reinstall the OS. And if after all those remedies you're still experiencing performance problems, you'll at least know it is a hardware issue.

bimmerphile · Feb 12, 2004, 01:14 AM

Big Ma: He already did that

Bi@tch · Feb 12, 2004, 07:40 AM

Originally posted by jasonsRX7:
I mentioned this a while back, but my G5 is still subjecting me to an overwhelming number of beachballs which always result in having to power off the system. I can't reproduce them consistantly, and I can go days without problems, but invariably, I'll be in the middle of something and all of a sudden, Finder will start beachballing and then one by one, the rest of my apps will lock up. I don't even bother trying to keep it alive anymore, as soon as I see a beachball for a couple of seconds, I go ahead and power off.

Since I've already tried 3 different pairs of ram, repaired permissions, performed fresh installs of 10.3, and a new hard drive, I guess what I'm wondering at this point is will Apple tech support be of any help to me at all? I've been a PC user until about a year ago, and always just fixed hardware issues myself. I've never called for support before, much less taken a machine to someone else to have it worked on. How likely am I to actually get Apple to fix it?

I'm guess what I'm expecting is to take it to them, leave it for a couple weeks, and then go pick it up and have them say, "well, we couldn't find anything wrong with it." Is that about right?

I feel the pain my friend! My G5 has done that more than a few times and I have yet to find a cure. I sent it back for repair and they fixed the fan problems I had. I got a hard crash like that once after repair so it seems like I might still have the same problems as before. I also thought that a power regulator might fixed the problem. Maybe it does...I've had only one crash after all since then too.

What you may try also is zeroing out the disc?

For both of us I really hope it's not hardware problem has we may never get it repaired...

jasonsRX7 · Feb 12, 2004, 11:01 AM

I suppose I can wait a few more weeks for 10.3.3 to come out and see if that fixes anything. I was hoping that firware update a while back would have taken care of it but it didn't.

If the system doesn't suffer a KP, is there anyway to see what has caused the instability?

BrunoBruin · Feb 12, 2004, 11:31 AM

Originally posted by Big Mac:
This doesn't sound as if its hardware related but rather a case of software corruption.

I agree. Since the machine itself doesn't crash or KP, maybe it's the window manager. Someone more knowledgable than I can tell you how to try to connect via ssh. Maybe that way you can find out what process has got you stuck. Have you tried posting your problem in the OS X forum?

This is probably an obvious question, but do you have any third-party UI haxies installed?

jasonsRX7 · Feb 12, 2004, 12:28 PM

Originally posted by BrunoBruin:
This is probably an obvious question, but do you have any third-party UI haxies installed?

Nothing out of the ordinary installed. In fact, the first time it ever crashed like that was about 20 minutes after I took it out of the box the first time, when it was brand new. Talk about a kick in the nuts for your excitement level. It was delivered to my office and I had a couple of coworkers standing around watching me set it up, and bam, it beachballed.

..try to connect via ssh. Maybe that way you can find out what process has got you stuck.

Ohh yeah, I should have tried that by now. Doh! I'll give it a shot and see if it'll let me in before it becomes too unresponsive. Thanks!

Detrius · Feb 12, 2004, 11:40 PM

Originally posted by jasonsRX7:
Nothing out of the ordinary installed. In fact, the first time it ever crashed like that was about 20 minutes after I took it out of the box the first time, when it was brand new. Talk about a kick in the nuts for your excitement level. It was delivered to my office and I had a couple of coworkers standing around watching me set it up, and bam, it beachballed.

Ohh yeah, I should have tried that by now. Doh! I'll give it a shot and see if it'll let me in before it becomes too unresponsive. Thanks!

Actually, when I've had this happen in previous versions of OS X, it seems to be kernel related in the sense that running processes work fine, but new ones can't be launched. This may even be thread related. But basically, sshing in is launching a new process and does not work. My guess is software glitch. Tell Apple so they can fix it.

Also, do your clean installs cary over user prefs? Corrupt user prefs can do all kinds of wacky stuff. I've seen corrupt root user prefs cause a machine fail to boot.

jasonsRX7 · Feb 13, 2004, 12:43 AM

Originally posted by Detrius:
Actually, when I've had this happen in previous versions of OS X...

Yes, my G5 shipped with 10.2, and it happened within minutes of taking it out of the box for the first time.

Also, do your clean installs cary over user prefs? Corrupt user prefs can do all kinds of wacky stuff. I've seen corrupt root user prefs cause a machine fail to boot.

Well, the first time, I did a clean format and install of 10.2 on the original drive. The 2nd time I did a clean format and reinstall of 10.3 on the original drive. The 3rd time, I did a clean format of 10.3 on a new hard drive that I bought. In none of these instances did I copy any user settings from the old install. The only things I copied were my music, pictures, and documents folders.

slipjack · Feb 14, 2004, 12:05 AM

Sometimes strange things happen when a computer gets too hot, and it can be very inconsistant and fustrating to track down. There might be problems with airflow or something...

d0ubled0wn · Feb 14, 2004, 09:31 AM

Do you have any firewire devices attached? I have this strange problem with my iPod every so often where OS X seems to lock up on me. Disconnecting the iPod always fixes it.

powerbook867 · Feb 14, 2004, 09:42 AM

have you done the G5 firmware upgrade?? I have a 1.6 also and have not experienced any problems (thank God).....From what you are describing, it sounds like hardware to me. Heat could be an issue or maybe electricity? Is the machine plugged into a surge protector or UPS that gives you good juice? Is there a proper ground off the outlet?

I know it sounds like I'm grasping at straws, but I own a older home and strange thins somethimes go on with our internal grid. I would definately be contacting Apple at this stage of the game. What you are describing is not normal (as I'm sure you know) and they should either fix it or replace it (if it comes to that point)...Good luck...

One last note, I would not tell Apple tech about swapping all the Ram, the harddrive, etc...Just in case you get a not so great support person on the line. Don't want any blame placed on you...I would tell them about the re-installs and the hardware tests coming up clean...

DeathToWindows · Feb 14, 2004, 10:23 AM

Originally posted by jasonsRX7:
I suppose I can wait a few more weeks for 10.3.3 to come out and see if that fixes anything. I was hoping that firware update a while back would have taken care of it but it didn't.

If the system doesn't suffer a KP, is there anyway to see what has caused the instability?

log files maybe?

Love Calm Quiet · Feb 14, 2004, 01:01 PM

SLIPJACK:

I always like to see what Mac designers are up to. So I clicked on your:

"a little design calms the soul"

There seems to be very VERY little design there.

"Under construction"?

jasonsRX7 · Feb 15, 2004, 01:33 AM

Originally posted by d0ubled0wn:
Do you have any firewire devices attached? I have this strange problem with my iPod every so often where OS X seems to lock up on me. Disconnecting the iPod always fixes it.

Hmm, well I do have an iPod, but the last time it crashed, the iPod wasn't in the dock. I leave it out in the car most of the time.

Originally posted by powerbook867:
Heat could be an issue or maybe electricity? Is the machine plugged into a surge protector or UPS that gives you good juice? Is there a proper ground off the outlet?

Doubtful that it's heat. I keep it around 70 in here, with good airflow. For the UPS, I have it on a Best Power Fortress 1400va, which is a rackmount UPS that can hold a couple small servers up for about 45 minutes or so. It will warn you if there is a wiring fault, so I don't think there is. I am going to put it by itself on a Connext (APC) 900 for the hell of it.

I would definately be contacting Apple at this stage of the game. What you are describing is not normal (as I'm sure you know) and they should either fix it or replace it (if it comes to that point)...Good luck...

Yeah, I guess I need to go ahead and call. I'm just not looking forward to having to shutdown all my stuff, drive up to Durham, and be without my system for a week or two. Oh well.

One last note, I would not tell Apple tech about swapping all the Ram, the harddrive, etc...Just in case you get a not so great support person on the line. Don't want any blame placed on you...I would tell them about the re-installs and the hardware tests coming up clean...

Really? Do they care about the end user doing that stuff? I mean, I guess I can't prove it to them, but it crashed with the original apple ram and drive.

slipjack · Feb 15, 2004, 04:25 AM

Originally posted by Love Calm Quiet:
SLIPJACK:

I always like to see what Mac designers are up to. So I clicked on your:

"a little design calms the soul"

There seems to be very VERY little design there. "Under construction"?

Ya, it's true Love Calm... I moved hosts and I haven't had time to put up something new on the site.

Lame, but it's true. I have a 7 month old and work has been insane the last 4 months...

Thanks for checkin' I have some time this weekend, so maybe I can get a little something up there for ya'll.

Cheers!

powerbook867 · Feb 15, 2004, 10:59 AM

normally, it would not matter if you changed out the ram and the hard drive. given your set of circumstances with what is happening to the machine, I always tell the people I support to error on the side of caution and let the computer manufacturer worry about their product, not what you may or may not have done to the product.

It just removes an element (yourself) from the equation IMHO...I've made hundreds, if not thousands of calls to Dell and Sun and I try to have all my ducks in a row before the call. In this kind of instance where it's hard to put a finger on what is happening, you don't want the finger pointed at you!!

Apple tech support is some of the best in the business. All it takes is one bad support person to make like significantly more difficult for you. You should be fine, I'm just a little paranoid when the equipment is mine...

Do you have a USB hub plugged into your machine? I could swear I've read somplace that some models cause problems...