Welcome to the MacNN Forums.

SpeedRacer · May 15, 2001, 01:38 PM

Okay that does it. I've the line about Apple = the BMW of the computer industry for a long time now, but even Apple is now saying it as well.

apple.com/retail

Now as much as i love my Mac, as much as i appreciate the greater ease of use it often represents vs. the Wintel market, i simply cannot accept the analogy that Apple = BMW... or that the computer industry is even in comparable to the auto industry. Here's my take...

The problem with the auto-Apple analogy is that it assumes that Apple represents the pinnacle of quality and reliability in a market of like-made products. The reality is that not only are there other manufacturers producing products of equivalent quality/reliability, but that Apple is a niche manufacturer building their machines on a nonstandard processor/CPU which does not operate the same software/fuel as the other 95% of the industry.

If you're going to make a comparison of Apple to the auto industry at all it would seem you'd be accurate only in comparing them to a car maker producing strictly non-standard engine/CPU cars - ie: electric, the old rotary/wenkel style engines, etc. Is this to say that standard rod and piston engines are inherently BETTER than electric or rotary engines? No. It just means they are the defacto industry standard. And standards (as well all know) are very difficult if not impossible to break in many situations/industries (the reluctance of auto makers bringing electric-powered cars to market being but one example).

Yet if we stop at only the engine/CPU the comparison of Apple to Autos is still not quite accurate being that what actually drives/fuels the platform (the software) is not directly compatible with the rest of the industry - it needs to be specifically written for the Mac.

Therefore a more accurate analogy for Apple being compared to the auto industry would be say that Apple is producing a line of nonstandard electric/rotary engine-powered automobiles that necessitate being driven by fuel/energy that is not found at 95% of the gas stations around the country.

From the best i can tell, this is not BMW.

So now that we have this hypothetical MacInCar anybody want to give me the name of any auto maker currently producing a line of cars under this format, making money, and growing their market share year-over-year?

Perhaps more importantly, can features like a great body/styling, an above-average standard feature package, and the ability to act as the hub for your lawnmower, weedwacker, and chainsaw be expected to provide the average joe car-buyer enough of a reason to choose the MacInCar over the standard 4 cylinder, gas-powered Toyota/Dell available down the road for thousands of $$$ less?

It's a question, not a statement.
Discuss...

Speed

burger · May 15, 2001, 02:08 PM

The comparison made referred to the marketshare of a particular auto manufacturer. Granted they try to ride the presitge of BMW and the reliability of the company by exculsively using their name, they are not comparing the companies feature and or product.

The point is smoothly delivered when the reader thinks about how many BMWs they see on the road, around where I live it is quite a few.

Did you expect them to use a Yugo or Ford Taurus as an example?

Besides, I race and drive a rotary powered vehicle.. hehe. Mazda still makes them!

Xeo · May 15, 2001, 02:21 PM

I think instead of comparing them as you are, we need to look at it like Apple intends.

When you see a BMW on the road, you think, "Wow, that's a nice car. It's very cool. I want one." (maybe not everyone thinks this, but go with me here). The people who drive BMWs are "higher-up" because of their high standards and good taste.

The same should be said about Apple and the Mac. "Wow, that's a nice computer, it's very cool. I want one." It should be looked at as the computer for people with good taste.

There aren't many people who look at a BMW and say it's a piece of crap, but quite the opposite. The same goes for Apple (or at least, that's what they want).

You're comparison was good, because the reasons you gave made a lot of sense, but that's taking the comparison Apple makes to the extreme, which I don't think they are indending.

------------------

SpeedRacer · May 15, 2001, 03:25 PM

Originally posted by Xeo:
I think instead of comparing them as you are, we need to look at it like Apple intends.

When you see a BMW on the road, you think, "Wow, that's a nice car. It's very cool. I want one." (maybe not everyone thinks this, but go with me here). The people who drive BMWs are "higher-up" because of their high standards and good taste.

I understand the quite well the desire of Apple to be associated with a prestigious brand like BMW, as well as your point out the prestige that goes along with their name over someone like Saturn, Dodge, etc. My problem is that such a shallow analogy tends to become common fodder among Mac fanatics and sooner or later dogmatizes into "religious fact." Something i am beginning to see already.

My other point is that Apple is selling themselves as a CONSUMER computer maker. If this is the designated market, they really should have much more in common with Ford or GM than a company like BMW. Isn't it the Apple "snobbiness" that got the company pigeon-holed as a niche computer maker for the rich back in the 80's anyway?

I love my Macs. I'd hate to see them go full circle to where they were nearly a decade ago - over-priced, under-powered, products running on a specialized components hardware base.

Speed

foobars · May 15, 2001, 03:46 PM

Indeed the first poster is right.

If Apple made cars the'd probally need thier own special roads to work right...

mitchell_pgh · May 15, 2001, 05:47 PM

No, we are just different... Now with OSX, that line is even more blured... We can run most Unix applications, so what does that say about the "engine" mentality? OS 9 would be like a car that needs it's own roads.

I hope developers start delivering quality OSX applications, or Apple may be the Tucker of the Automobile industry!!!

------------------

tie · May 15, 2001, 06:54 PM

Originally posted by foobars:
Indeed the first poster is right.

If Apple made cars the'd probally need thier own special roads to work right...

But I'd still get one. The roads would be so much nicer to drive on.

Mediaman_12 · May 15, 2001, 07:00 PM

Originally posted by tie:
But I'd still get one. The roads would be so much nicer to drive on.

Yeh! there would only be like, 5% of the traffic. So no jams

.

------------------

Macintosh · May 15, 2001, 08:15 PM

They compared themselves to Mercedes too.

Timo · May 15, 2001, 08:47 PM

[Puts on marketing glasses] Apple = BMW fits. Two cool chic brands all about "ease of use" (but powerful: able to handle autobahn/infobahn) and having a fashionable lifestyle. A different, more "ergonomic" or "well-thought out" experience for the end user, for which we expect you to pay a little more. After all, you get what you pay for. "I'm not a GM (or PC) drone, I am an individual."

[Puts on literal-analogy glasses] Apple = BMW doesn't make any sense at all...for the reasons SpeedRacer listed. I like Apple = old Mazda RX-7 better.

[Puts on kindergarten teacher glasses] "Cars are not computers, young man."

[Puts on poet lenses, grabs a smoke] "Apple is BMW; it's not convincing me, it's a rotten simile. I'm not groovin' on that I-D; It's got it's got no po-e-try."

T

ctt1wbw · May 15, 2001, 08:52 PM

I think you people are trying to read too much in to this. I think what he was trying to say is that just because more people drive Chevy's doesn't make them better, hence just because more people use Windows doesn't make it better. I can tell you from first hand experience that a Chevy doesn't come close to a BMW.

ironknee · May 15, 2001, 10:04 PM

u mean my mac isn't a car?

simonjames · May 16, 2001, 03:44 AM

Apple = BMW

Is a very good analogy if you've ever owned a recent BMW - the damned service-control computers in the cars can only be reset by a registered BMW service agent who has the right computer. And so they have you over a barrel and charge a fortune everytime you go get a service.

How about this for a laugh - my Dad took delivery of the latest BMW touring motor bike a couple of weeks back - it costs more than two Daewoo cars - anyway - the stop lights didn't work - the computer said they were working - the light globes in them were fine - the connections were all ok - just the onboard computer was screwed. It took them 2 weeks to fix it.

Sounds like Apple all round - I've had two DOA Macs in my 4 Mac life.

Bugs Bunny · May 16, 2001, 03:58 AM

Apple = BMW

Together, my 2 babies

spike · May 16, 2001, 04:00 AM

Apple=BMW (is this because the color of my BMW is associated to my Ti book?)

Bugs Bunny · May 16, 2001, 04:21 AM

Apple=BMW (is this because the color of my BMW is associated to my Ti book?)

Um, the BMW is green, the Ti is silver

spike · May 16, 2001, 06:43 AM

Originally posted by Bugs Bunny:
Um, the BMW is green, the Ti is silver

HIS BMW is green and MINE is silver (he's got a 4 door and I've got a coup�)

ctt1wbw · May 16, 2001, 07:05 AM

Hey, Bugs, what type of BMW is that? Is that a 3 or a 5 series? It's GEORGIOUS!!!!!! I want a BMW sooooooooo bad. I can't make up my mind if I want a 330 or a 528. The 540 is my dream car, but 50 grand is a wee bit out of my league.

VRL · May 16, 2001, 08:59 AM

Bugs Bunny - nice photo!

We just ordered a TiBook to go with our Titanium Silver BMW. Life is good

Speaking from experience, the statement (comparison) is appropriate. I choose excellence, even if most other people do not.

spike · May 16, 2001, 09:15 AM

Originally posted by VRL:
Bugs Bunny - nice photo!

We just ordered a TiBook to go with our Titanium Silver BMW. Life is good

I can tell you that my Ti Book match perfectly with the "Titanium Silver" from my BMW (on a 3-series at least).... Actually, my cellular phone has exactly the same titanium finish (Siemens SL45)

MacOS761 · May 16, 2001, 09:48 AM

Anybody else have one of those old-school bumper stickers that says, "I'd rather be driving a Macintosh." ? I've got one on my printer (Laserwriter NTR), and I think there's another hiding in my stuff elsewhere. So, y'know, that proves it.

------------------
I need a new sig.

SillyMonk · May 16, 2001, 09:56 AM

I think Macs are more like present day Volkswagons. You end up paying more for a VeeDub, but you usually end up with a stylish, well engineered car thats fun to drive.

As for the auto/computer thing, the only thing cars need to run normally are oil, gas and air. To use your Mac you just need electricity and air, right out of the box, just like PCs, not some proprietary electricity.

iCartman · May 16, 2001, 10:47 AM

ever notice that BMW owners never compare thier cars to Apple?

Apple may equal BMW, but no way does BMW equal Apple. That's just simply an insult to BMW.

------------------
respect mah athoritah!

spike · May 16, 2001, 12:08 PM

Originally posted by ctt1wbw:
I can't make up my mind if I want a 330 or a 528.

I suggest you choose for a 330i. It's cheaper, faster, newer and more sexy than a 528i. I would go for a 330i coup� (if you don't have any kids). I drive a 325i coup� and I can tell you it's a wonderful car. The coup� is only a little bit more expensive but you get more for your money.
Color: Titanium silver to match the Ti book.

Bugs Bunny · May 16, 2001, 12:10 PM

Bugs Bunny - nice photo! We just ordered a TiBook to go with our Titanium Silver BMW. Life is good

I really liked the silver BMW's, very sweet color. I wanted to get the silver, but the wife has a silver Mercedes, so I had to get green metalic

VRL, what part of Germany are you from? I wish I could get my BMW on the Autobahn, because driving around NY is like driving at half throttle. Plus there's a pothole every 10 feet. And yes, life is very good

ctt1wbw · May 16, 2001, 01:28 PM

I have looked at both the 3 and 5 series, and both are sweet. I am a big person, at 6'3" and 125 pounds. Think I can fit comfortably in a 330i? Maybe I will just get a new X5...

SpeedRacer · May 17, 2001, 01:04 AM

Sorry, but the fact that we're talking about what color/model BMW to buy or "matching" our BMWs to our laptops is just crazy. For a computer company claiming to represent "the rest of us" it smells a heck of a lot like the "priveleged few."

The day Apple falls into the league of over-priced foreign luxury manufacturer is the day i dump them like a bad habit.

Speed

ctt1wbw · May 17, 2001, 01:12 AM

I don't know about you, but I have never seen a Mac priced anywhere close to a BMW, so what the **** are you talking about? If you have the means to buy one, either a Mac or a BMW, then go for it. Don't be pissed off because you don't have the means. I don't have the means to buy a new BMW, but I am spouting off crap out of mouth because of it. Just chill out and let people have fun with their money. Sheesh...

Bugs Bunny · May 17, 2001, 02:04 AM

I have looked at both the 3 and 5 series, and both are sweet. I am a big person, at 6'3" and 125 pounds. Think I can fit comfortably in a 330i?

ctt1wbw,
6 foot three, and 125lbs?? You need to eat some pizza

I'm 6' 1", and 185lbs, and its very comfortable in the 3 series, plenty of leg room. I had the 5 series, and I actually prefer the 3 series.

ctt1wbw · May 17, 2001, 03:14 AM

125, what the... I meant to type 225. Man, I am tired at 3:15 in the AM. And knock it off about the pizza, I'm starving!!

Once again, I went to www.bmwusa.com and drooled a little more over the 330i. I can't take my eyes off of that work of art.

nana2 · May 17, 2001, 06:04 AM

Apple = BMW 318i

Got the flash name, but performance sucks

Only joking guys

SpeedRacer · May 17, 2001, 08:11 AM

Originally posted by ctt1wbw:
I don't know about you, but I have never seen a Mac priced anywhere close to a BMW, so what the **** are you talking about? If you have the means to buy one, either a Mac or a BMW, then go for it. Don't be pissed off because you don't have the means.

What i am talking about is that last i checked this was a Macintosh BBS system.. The original post was regarding the validity/invalidity of the analogy between BMW and Apple as companies... not a call for folks to discuss the positives and negatives of the entire line of BMWs. Frankly i don't care about the differences between the 3series of the 5series. If you want to contribute something useful to this thread, feel free. If you want to discuss the line of BMWs try bmw.com.

Speed

[This message has been edited by SpeedRacer (edited 05-17-2001).]

ctt1wbw · May 17, 2001, 04:45 PM

Okay. I think Steve Jobs hit the nail on the head when he made that analogy. BMW is among the world's best autos, and Apple is among the world's best computers. Good enough?

itomato · May 17, 2001, 06:01 PM

Apple hasn't made the claim to be "The computer for the rest of us" for 15 years..

The BMW analogy is valid. The way I see it, it's as simple as this:

BMW, as a brand, is a pearl among pebbles. Likewise for Apple. The same analogy could be made for Bang&Olufsen audio equipment.. It may not be the absolute best, but it works very well, and is a joy to use. BMW, Audi, Mercedes, Porsche, they're all the same in that respect. Apple just happens to be the only computer manufacturer that knows it matters.

------------------

Daishi · May 17, 2001, 07:47 PM

Originally posted by SpeedRacer:
[B]If you want to discuss the line of BMWs try bmw.com.

Yeah, but you're in the lounge, so it's a free for all and topics are easily shifted.

Anyways, I think it's a fair comparison. They're in two completely different industries, so there are inherent limitations to the comparison. It just gets home the point that Jobs was going for.

------------------
Vocatvs atque non vocatvs Deusaderit

Yuri1419 · May 18, 2001, 11:51 PM

SpeedRacer-

Topics are like kids. Someone will bring them into existence with plans for their future, but it always ends up that they wander and develop into what they do.

We'll take the conversation wherever it leads us, thankyouverymuch.

Unlike kids, you can just start another thread with no financial or legal obligation....

VRL · May 19, 2001, 05:26 AM

Bugs Bunny: Live in a small town near Regensburg, Germany. (Originally from the U.S.) Yes, the autobahn is the only way to go! Cruise at 120mph and the vehicle just smiles back at ya

(Not unlike our Macs - it seems no matter what we demand of them, they usually just do it, without all the hassles.)

itomato: I completely agree.

BMW is affordable. I've owned "cheaper" autos that in the long run cost me much more (repairs, headaches).

As for going off topic, someone else once said (on these boards): A topic that goes off track at least once is an indication that it's a good topic